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New Macs running 10.4.2, 10.4.3 due soon, more...

post #1 of 79
Thread Starter 
Apple's two new professional Macintosh offerings are shipping with special build trains of the Mac OS X 10.4.2 operating system. Meanwhile the release of Mac OS X 10.4.3 remains just around the corner.

New Power Mac G5 notes

The recently introduced Power Mac G5 Dual and Power Mac G5 Quad systems are reportedly shipping with Mac OS X 10.4.2 Build 8E90. The systems feature IBM's new dual-core PowerPC 970MP microprocessors, which sport 183 million transistors per chip.

While the Power Mac G5 Dual systems no longer include liquid-cooling systems, sources report that the Power Mac G5 Quad configuration will continue to rely on liquid cooling technology to manage the temperature in the computers.

The new Power Macs also include three USB 2.0 ports on the back as opposed to two and feature a new Airport + Bluetooth antennae that is built into the system's rear panel.

New PowerBook notes

Like the Power Macs, Apple's new PowerBook G4 systems are also running a special built train of Mac OS X 10.4.2, said to be build 8E45.

Additionally, the 15-inch and 17-inch models show some signs of a slight internal component reorganization. The laptops' sleep sensor is now located inside the display bezel rather than on the body of the unit.

Previous PowerBook systems included three internal speakers -- one under the keyboard and one each on the right- and left-hand sides -- while the new models rely on just left and right speakers.

Tipsters also report that inside the new PowerBooks both the hard drive and SuperDrive reside on the same ATA bus (where previously they were both 'masters' on separate ATA busses).

Mac OS X 10.4.3 near release

With nearly all of its hardware introductions now out of the way, Apple for the rest of the year will focus on completing a few select software updates destine for all of its Macintosh customers. The first of these updates will be Mac OS X 10.4.3, which represents the third maintenance release to the company's Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger operating system.

According to sources and reports already present on the Internet, Apple over the weekend seeded Mac OS X 10.4.3 build 8F45, which weighs in just shy of 100MB in Combo Update form. The pre-release software appears free of issues and could be released in a matter of days.

Previous reports indicate that Mac OS X 10.4.3 will deliver over 500 minor enhancements and bug fixes to Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger.
post #2 of 79
Quote:
Originally posted by AppleInsider
Previous PowerBook systems included two internal speakers -- one under the keyboard and another on the right-hand side -- while the new models rely on a single speaker.

Tipsters also report that inside the new PowerBooks both the hard drive and SuperDrive reside on the same ATA bus (where previously they were both 'masters' on separate ATA busses).

Hmm.

I thought the older PowerBooks had 3 speakers. Left/Right/Centre.

Not sure I like the fact that both drives now reside on the same bus, although the likelihood of saturating the bus is close to nil.

<I've edited Kaspers first post. They are Powerbook G4, not G5. >
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post #3 of 79
thats why i bought an ibook.. for 2 speakers
post #4 of 79
"powerbook g5s"?! I think the author made a Freudian slip
post #5 of 79
So wait a minute. It's not even stereo? Just one speaker? This is 2005 not 1995 right?

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post #6 of 79
Okay ... from the Dev. Release Notes for the new 15" PB and the 17" PB:

Quote:
Internal Speakers
The computer has two internal speakers, one on either side of the keyboard. The computer turns off the audio signals to the speakers when an external device is actively connected to the optical digital audio /headphone out and during power management.

The first post is incorrect.

I cannot find the dev. notes for the previous revision of the PB, so I can't be sure that it did include a 3rd speaker.

The 12" PB still includes the 3rd speaker. I suppose it's the only advantage it holds over its larger siblings.
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post #7 of 79
Okay, it looks like they just removed the third midrange speaker on the 15" model.

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post #8 of 79
Anyone knows if 10.4.3 will activate Quartz Extreme 2D?
post #9 of 79
The original story has been updated to correctly report the speaker configuration. Thanks Kasper.
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post #10 of 79
i bet 10.4.3 is going to be really cool and worth the wait cause they took the time to get it right
post #11 of 79
I find the most interesting note to be that the dual core single processor models will no longer include water cooling.

I'm now thinking that Apple didn't release a 2.5 dual core single chip machine to be able to avoid the water cooling.

Otherwise why would the dual chip 2.5 still have that?

Of course, that's assuming that the report is correct.

The question still remains about pricing. Both Intel and AMD are charging about the same for dual core chips as for single core chips. What is Apple's cost here?. The water cooling units are much more expensive than simple fan and heatsink coolers. Are they using anything else? There are several other cooling technologies that are available for this purpose. All cost more than simple fan and heatsink models, but less than water cooling models.

It's the pricing issue that I'm wondering about. One dual core chip should be much cheaper than two dual cores. the use of one cooling unit should bring the price down as well. If the cooling unit is not water driven, then it should be less expensive than one being water cooled.
post #12 of 79
I am hoping 10.4.3 will do something about the battery life in my iBook which gets just over an hour of run time where with Panther it had 5 hours of run time.
post #13 of 79
Quote:
Originally posted by troberts
I am hoping 10.4.3 will do something about the battery life in my iBook which gets just over an hour of run time where with Panther it had 5 hours of run time.

You aren't running your iBook without any of the power savings are you?

Preferences -> Energy Saver

Battery -> Better Battery Life
Power Adapter -> Better Performance
post #14 of 79
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
I find the most interesting note to be that the dual core single processor models will no longer include water cooling.

I'm now thinking that Apple didn't release a 2.5 dual core single chip machine to be able to avoid the water cooling.

Otherwise why would the dual chip 2.5 still have that?

Of course, that's assuming that the report is correct.

The question still remains about pricing. Both Intel and AMD are charging about the same for dual core chips as for single core chips. What is Apple's cost here?. The water cooling units are much more expensive than simple fan and heatsink coolers. Are they using anything else? There are several other cooling technologies that are available for this purpose. All cost more than simple fan and heatsink models, but less than water cooling models.

It's the pricing issue that I'm wondering about. One dual core chip should be much cheaper than two dual cores. the use of one cooling unit should bring the price down as well. If the cooling unit is not water driven, then it should be less expensive than one being water cooled.

Previously, only the high end configurations were water cooled - the dual 2.7 ghz and the dual 2.5 ghz before that. In this new line up, it is still only the top of the line model that is water cooled, so it stands to reason that the prices wouldn't change much - and they haven't. (pricing is available - the dual core 2ghz is $1999, the dual core 2.3ghz is $2499 and the quad is now $3299 - a $300 bump from the previous hight end).

As far as Apple's cost for the chips goes, that's going to be tough to calculate, because even if you could determine their cost of the chips, as you mentioned, there are different costs to cool the different configurations.
post #15 of 79
Quote:
Originally posted by a Martin
Anyone knows if 10.4.3 will activate Quartz Extreme 2D?

Someone answer ir speculate on this....

QE2D was a big thing in Tiger's review pn Arz Tech, but has been absent for nearly 6 months....
post #16 of 79
The dual 2.7GHz tower is LIQUID (not water) cooled, as was the previous dual 2.5GHz model. The previous 2.3GHz duals were NOT liquid cooled, which is why they were 2.3GHz CPUs, I'd guess.

I believe my Spring 2005 PowerBook has three speakers, with the mid speaker actually placed to the left of the keyboard (from the pictures I've seen), so the loss of the "center" or "mid" channel speaker is probably a good thing. When sound is centered on my laptop, there is a decided left bias.

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post #17 of 79
Quote:
Originally posted by salmonstk
Someone answer ir speculate on this....

QE2D was a big thing in Tiger's review pn Arz Tech, but has been absent for nearly 6 months....

I am guessing it will not. Running Q2DE on 10.4.2 (enabled via Quartz Debug), I have yet to see a performance gain for any app, but I have noticed some significant slowdowns (e.g., animation for opening/closing formatting panes in Excel gets all slow when you enable Q2DE). So unless it somehow works much better than in 10.4.2, I doubt they will enable it, because right now for most people there is only downside and no upside.
post #18 of 79
My new 15" PowerBook was shipped from China today, so I can hardly wait.
I even splurged on the 100 GB x 7200 rpm hard drive option and a 1GB RAM stick.

It'll be interesting to see how the new iron compares to the 3-year old 1GHz Titanium PowerBook it's replacing.

I don't think that the TiBooks had 3 speakers? It doesn't much matter because when listening to music or gaming I use good headphones (Grado and Etymotic).
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post #19 of 79
Quote:
Originally posted by nathan22t
i bet 10.4.3 is going to be really cool and worth the wait cause they took the time to get it right

You wish. People will still find bugs to complain about.

One thing that's cool that's been reported by MacBidouille is the new 'Safe Sleep' feature for the new PowerBooks (or every PowerBook in general?) which apparently saves the memory to disk in case the laptop's battery is completely drained.
post #20 of 79
Quote:
Originally posted by sloanlo
Previously, only the high end configurations were water cooled - the dual 2.7 ghz and the dual 2.5 ghz before that. In this new line up, it is still only the top of the line model that is water cooled, so it stands to reason that the prices wouldn't change much - and they haven't. (pricing is available - the dual core 2ghz is $1999, the dual core 2.3ghz is $2499 and the quad is now $3299 - a $300 bump from the previous hight end).

As far as Apple's cost for the chips goes, that's going to be tough to calculate, because even if you could determine their cost of the chips, as you mentioned, there are different costs to cool the different configurations.

You are saying exactly what I said.

You might notice that I said dualcore 2.5. It's also been estimated that the dual core 2.3 chips will use and give off much more heat than a single core 2.3GHz chip. Consider that it has 1MB L2 cache per core instead of 512KB per core. So, not only does the cpu have twice the number of transistors (approx), but it has four times as many in the caches. One 2.3 could very possibly put out as much heat as one 2.5 when fully loaded.

We also don't know how the extra $300 was allocated. It could have gone several ways.

The chips

The cooling

The Express board

Increased capacity power supply. Notice that this machine, the Quad, uses a high power power socket and cord. A 16 amp cord.
post #21 of 79
Quote:
Originally posted by troberts
I am hoping 10.4.3 will do something about the battery life in my iBook which gets just over an hour of run time where with Panther it had 5 hours of run time.

Also dependent on the age and use of your battery.

As you discharge and recharge your battery, over time it losses its ability to charge as much.

There is a battery app called CoconutBattery.

This app will let you know how old your battery is, how many recharge cycles it has gone through, your battery's original full charge and its current charge.
post #22 of 79
Quote:
Originally posted by bigmig
I am guessing it will not. Running Q2DE on 10.4.2 (enabled via Quartz Debug), I have yet to see a performance gain for any app, but I have noticed some significant slowdowns (e.g., animation for opening/closing formatting panes in Excel gets all slow when you enable Q2DE). So unless it somehow works much better than in 10.4.2, I doubt they will enable it, because right now for most people there is only downside and no upside.

Also the javascript text manipulation tests and UI tests for Safari run about 30 times slower with Q2DE enabled on my iMac. It's faster at pretty much everything other than text and UI controls. Since most of the time I'm manipulating text and the UI, enabling it would be a bad thing.
post #23 of 79
anyone here knows if i could just swap the screens on my pb to the newer ones?
post #24 of 79
Quote:
Originally posted by Dave Marsh
The dual 2.7GHz tower is LIQUID (not water) cooled, as was the previous dual 2.5GHz model.

Isn't the liquid mostly water?
post #25 of 79
Quote:
Originally posted by salmonstk
Someone answer ir speculate on this....

QE2D was a big thing in Tiger's review pn Arz Tech, but has been absent for nearly 6 months....

Well, I don't think QE2D was ever a promised feature. It was probably worked on and stuff during development, but then at some point it was determined that the gain wasn't worth the cost/effort/etc. That's the whole problem with making forward looking statements regarding the 'next' release of anything. You never know until you get into it whether its actually feasible (like 3GHz chips!).

Of course, why people are so het up about some unreleased feature that, when enabled, has caused people issues and the like, rather then getting excited about Apple maybe solving some of their long-term existing problems, like interface inconsistencies, SBOD doing simple things in the Finder (like how hard is it to thread each freakin' window/action???), that kind of crap.

But no, people want something else new added in to cause even more problems...
post #26 of 79
Quote:
Originally posted by TenoBell
Also dependent on the age and use of your battery.

As you discharge and recharge your battery, over time it losses its ability to charge as much.

There is a battery app called CoconutBattery.

This app will let you know how old your battery is, how many recharge cycles it has gone through, your battery's original full charge and its current charge.

That is an awsome application! thanks for the heads up; now I know how old my computer is as well
post #27 of 79
quote:
Originally posted by bigmig
I am guessing it will not. Running Q2DE on 10.4.2 (enabled via Quartz Debug), I have yet to see a performance gain for any app, but I have noticed some significant slowdowns (e.g., animation for opening/closing formatting panes in Excel gets all slow when you enable Q2DE). So unless it somehow works much better than in 10.4.2, I doubt they will enable it, because right now for most people there is only downside and no upside.


Quote:
Originally posted by aegisdesign
Also the javascript text manipulation tests and UI tests for Safari run about 30 times slower with Q2DE enabled on my iMac. It's faster at pretty much everything other than text and UI controls. Since most of the time I'm manipulating text and the UI, enabling it would be a bad thing.

Of course that's one of the reasons why it isn't turned on. It isn't ready. Any reason to expect that it will work?

Anyway, other have reported large speedups in certain operations with some apps, though it does crash.

Don't judge until Apple releases it officially.
post #28 of 79
Quote:
Originally posted by BMWintoxication
anyone here knows if i could just swap the screens on my pb to the newer ones?

Yes. No.
post #29 of 79
Quote:
Originally posted by JeffDM
Isn't the liquid mostly water?

Mostly.
post #30 of 79
Quote:
Originally posted by Louzer
[B]Well, I don't think QE2D was ever a promised feature.

Yes it was. A quartz guy at apple said in a conference (at the WWDC 2004) that Q2DX would be enabled by default in tiger.
The low level benchmarcks were promising. \
post #31 of 79
Quote:
Originally posted by kim kap sol

One thing that's cool that's been reported by MacBidouille is the new 'Safe Sleep' feature for the new PowerBooks (or every PowerBook in general?) which apparently saves the memory to disk in case the laptop's battery is completely drained.

Now that's cool. Been waiting for that 'hibernate' option for a long while. I hope they build it into OS for PowerMacs too - as an option for powering off - so when you reboot you get your session back as you left it - just incase you don't want to leave it on standby - a la Windows.

Cheers Daniel
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post #32 of 79
Quote:
Originally posted by Louzer
Well, I don't think QE2D was ever a promised feature. It was probably worked on and stuff during development, but then at some point it was determined that the gain wasn't worth the cost/effort/etc.

Not only it was a promised feature, but there was a talk in WWDC 2004 showing preliminary benchmark results. I will not tell you what exactly, just to not ruin the suspense , sot go here and advance to 23 min. And you will see.

Apparently, something went terribly wrong in the meantime. The talk was almost one year and a half back.
post #33 of 79
Quote:
Originally posted by PB

Apparently, something went terribly wrong in the meantime. The talk was almost one year and a half back.

So, what happened?!?!?
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post #34 of 79
Question regarding: QE2D...

When you use the Quartz Debug tool can you enable QE2D?

What happens when you do?

My graphics card doesn't support QE2D it seems.

Cheers Daniel
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post #35 of 79
I'm getting a new Mac and I want to know which cards will support QE2D. Is there a list somewhere? One that have support for the ARB_fragment_program OpenGL extension. Do all current graphics cards in new PowerMacs fit the bill?

Cheers Daniel
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post #36 of 79
Quote:
Originally posted by dahacouk
So, what happened?!?!?

I don't know. From the reports of those who enabled Q2DExtreme, it seems that some serious bugs showed up later in the development, or there was some miscalculation as to what this technology is capable for. Perhaps a combination of the two. As I said I don't know, I am just guessing.
post #37 of 79
Quote:
Originally posted by dahacouk
I'm getting a new Mac and I want to know which cards will support QE2D. Is there a list somewhere? One that have support for the ARB_fragment_program OpenGL extension. Do all current graphics cards in new PowerMacs fit the bill?

Cheers Daniel

Daniel, after the last summer's updates, all Macs except the Mac mini have appropriate hardware support for QE2D and related technologies (Core Image/Core Video). The mini will send the load to the Altivec unit, I suppose. This is what happens anyway with Core Image, that has the same GPU requirements as QE2D. A non-exhaustive list of such video chips is here.
post #38 of 79
JUST MAKE PREVIEW 3 TO WHERE YOU CAN SEE PDFS DOCUMENTS & pics FULL SCREEN LIKE IT WAS IN PANTHER WITHOUT A GEE DEE SLIDE SHOW STARTING UP!!! although i love book mode... "old scanned comics anyone"?

thats all i ask... from the Tiger updates and make it speedy!!!
post #39 of 79
Quote:
Originally posted by Catman4d2
JUST MAKE PREVIEW 3 TO WHERE YOU CAN SEE PDFS DOCUMENTS & pics FULL SCREEN LIKE IT WAS IN PANTHER WITHOUT A GEE DEE SLIDE SHOW STARTING UP!!! although i love book mode... "old scanned comics anyone"?

thats all i ask... from the Tiger updates and make it speedy!!!

Somebody needs a chill pill
post #40 of 79
Two questions: what are the odds 10.4.3 will include full Mighty Mouse support, unlike previous versions which needed it installed from the driver cd?

And on a dual cpu 2.5GHz G5, Activity Monitor (useful little system utility) runs with two cpu traces in its dock icon, stacked vertically. How are they going to lay out four of them for the G5 Quad? Or do dual cores not get their own charts...

Not exactly earth shattering questions! ;-)
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