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Nvidia 7800 GT and Power Mac G5 Quad in final testing

post #1 of 50
Thread Starter 
Apple's new high-end Power Mac G5 Quad and NVIDIA's GeForce 7800 GT graphics card are both in the final testing stages at Apple and could begin shipping in the second half of November, according to reports.

Apple's online store currently lists lead times of 3 to 4 weeks for the Power Mac Quad and 6 to 8 weeks for the NVIDIA 7800, but Apple representatives recently told an AppleInsider correspondent that the company hopes to ship the first batch of both products in mid-to-late November.

Power Mac G5 Quad Ultimate configuration

In the weeks that will follow, Apple retail stores nationwide will begin to stock a special Power Mac G5 Quad configuration that will include the 7800 GT as standard, according to reliable sources. The configuration will be called the "Power Mac G5 Quad Ultimate" and will retail for around (US)$4000 with 1GB of DDR2 RAM and other component upgrades.

NVIDIA GeForce 7800 GT delays

Slowing the release of the 7800 appears to be a stringent set of Apple acoustic guidelines which the graphics cards must meet before they can be included inside the new Power Macs. Since the 7800 packs its own fan in addition to its 256MB of GDDR3 SDRAM, Apple wants to be sure the cards do not contribute significantly to the noise already produced by the Power Mac's own cooling system.

Apple reportedly uses a sophisticated set of software algorithms to active or deactivate specific fans inside the Power Macs depending on the type and size of the data being processed. In addition to the two inlet and outlet fans present in each Power Mac G5, the Power Mac G5 Quad requires a liquid cooling system to help regulate the temperature inside the computer.

Liquid Cooling System

Once again, it appears that Apple has tapped Troy, Mich.-based Delphi-Harrison for the cooling systems, which are manufactured in Mexico and flown to Apple's manufacturing facilities in the Far East. The cooling systems resemble an automotive radiator and consist of approximately 80% water with an added mixture of corrosion inhibitors and bacterial growth preventatives.

Though it's uncertain, reasonable speculation suggests that the Power Mac G5 Quad may be seeing delays associated with its few specialized components -- mainly the liquid cooling system and faster 2.5GHz IBM PowerPC 970MP processors.

Apple performance benchmarks

Although Apple has not shipped any Power Mac G5 Quad systems that could be used to perform benchmarks calculations, tests run by the company in September show the Quad to be 88% faster in double-preciscion math calculations than the previous-generation Power Mac Dual 2.7GHz model. Likewise, the Quad proved to be 39%, 55% and 85% faster than the Dual in BBSv3 multiple-processor tests, Cinebench multiple-processor rendering tests, and floating-point calculations, respectively.

Power Mac G5 Quad vs Power Mac G4 Dual

Apple also compared the performance of the Power Mac G5 Quad to the Power Mac G4 Dual 1.42MHz in a series of software tests. According to the results, the Quad performed a 45-filter Photoshop CS2 test 184% faster than the Power Mac G4. In After Effects 6.5.1 the Quad faired even better, completing a visual effects rendering test 272% faster than the G4.

Real-world benchmarks

However, the only real-world Power Mac G5 Quad benchmark comes from Luxology, developers of the Modo surface modeling environment. According to a recent posting by the company's Allen Hastings, the Power Mac G5 Quad renders over twice as fast as Apple's previous Power Mac G5 Dual 2.5GHz systems.

"We had the opportunity to try one of the new quad G5s with modo 201 and I must say I was impressed with its speed," Hastings wrote in a message to the Luxology online forum. "As an example, it rendered the global illumination test image shown above in 17 seconds flat. The scene includes 244,000 polygons with 8 sample antialiasing and 200 indirect rays."

By comparison, Hastings said the Power Mac G5 Dual 2.5GHz took 38 seconds to render the same scene.
post #2 of 50
That's great news.
I can't wait to get this machine. I changed yesterday my order to add the GT card. I think the quad with GT will be a great machine for the next 2 to 3 years until Intel revB comes along. Then I think will be safe to upgrade.

Look forward to get it by end of November!
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post #3 of 50
Nice but... what about electrical power and noise levels?

Which are the power specs (max. Watts) of each of the new PowerMac G5 dual-core models?

How much does a sigle G5 core consume (max. Watts)? What about a doble-core G5?

Finally, what about noise (dB) levels?
post #4 of 50
Sounds great. What other component goodies may be supposed to be included besides the 1GB RAM and the 7800 GT?
post #5 of 50
Nice to see Allen Hastings writing some really nice software for the Mac. I've used his software since back in the Amiga's Videoscape 3D days which was a great product.
post #6 of 50
Of course, Apple fails (yet again) to deliver the product based on their own promises. Their PR said early November. Now it's mid to late November.

The vendor I ordered from said they were expecting stock (as told to them by Apple) on 11/2 and 11/3. That's since been revised.

It's annoying how this always happens with Apple.
post #7 of 50
Quote:
Originally posted by jaronbrass
Of course, Apple fails (yet again) to deliver the product based on their own promises. Their PR said early November. Now it's mid to late November.

The vendor I ordered from said they were expecting stock (as told to them by Apple) on 11/2 and 11/3. That's since been revised.

It's annoying how this always happens with Apple.

Oh hogwash. Delays happen with all kinds of companies. Because one vendor was expecting stock, and Apple wishes to be sure about what it is sending you find it disappointing. There was no 'promise' I ever heard about early November.
post #8 of 50
Quote:
Originally posted by aegisdesign
Nice to see Allen Hastings writing some really nice software for the Mac. I've used his software since back in the Amiga's Videoscape 3D days which was a great product.

Hey, I remember Videoscape I can't say it was a great product--you had to do your modeling by hand on GRAPH PAPER and key in the coordinates into a text file! But it was still fun, and it WAS after all the precursor to Lightwave 3D, which I use to this day

(Which is why Videoscape's later companion, Modeler 3D, looked and worked so much like Lightwave Modeler today. Videoscape + Modeler taken together wasn't a bad system, although much better came along. Alladin 4D! Real 3D!)
post #9 of 50
when I placed my order for the quad I was expecting by middle November. then I changed it to the GT card and now I was looking for early December, maybe middle of December.
Apple never promised anything for early November. That's your wrong assumption jaronbrass.
Now it seems that the GT card "might" be here earlier. That's great news.
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post #10 of 50
I don't think it's the wrong assumption. According to their press release, and to all of the Macintosh news coverage, the Quad was to be available in early November:
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2005/oct/19pmg5.html

The fact that they're performing final testing now is fine, but it still makes them late. I guess I'm expecting them to come out and say "Sorry, it's going to be slightly later than we said it would be." I know that won't happen.

I worked for Apple nearly two years before leaving and joining the company I work for now. The company I presently work for is one of Apple's largest ad/marketing customers, and we also do their marketing. This wouldn't be a big deal to me if we weren't going through a lease refresh on our G5 workstations. I have 65 new G5s on order, including 15 Quads.

In the days before the announcement of the new machines, inventory levels dropped, and that postponed shipments on PowerBooks and Power Macs that are part of this refresh for us.

While the average consumer might not consider the added wait time a big deal, I've been forced to extend our lease an additional month. Now, with the added delays anticipated by the Quads, the lease might have to go another month. It's money we shouldn't be spending, because we're effectively paying for two leases right now, instead of just one.

The leverage we have with Apple is good, but the misinformation is what kills me the most. Apple says early November, vendor corroborates. Then, AppleInsider says the machines are *just now* going through final testing. And vendor ultimately confirms that. I'm just upset because I feel somewhat misled. You can agree or disagree with me on this, but it's my perspective on the situation.
post #11 of 50
Quote:
Originally posted by nagromme
Hey, I remember Videoscape I can't say it was a great product--you had to do your modeling by hand on GRAPH PAPER and key in the coordinates into a text file! But it was still fun, and it WAS after all the precursor to Lightwave 3D, which I use to this day

Back then I was used to that though. I had a couple of OKI Intel i860 workstations though at work so POVRay got more use later on. The shaded Videoscape look was quite cool though.
post #12 of 50
Well, in any moment Apple said to me that I would receive it early November.
I placed an order for my Quad the day they announce it. It always said that I would receive it around November 17 or later, even the Apple sales person comfirm these dates when i talked over the phone.
Now with the GT card I was expecting it by December 15 the latest. If I can get it earlier then it will be great.
Maybe because you placed a larger order it's possible that Apple promised it earlier. But I'm highly skeptical, sorry.
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post #13 of 50
Quote:
Originally posted by NordicMan
There was no 'promise' I ever heard about early November.

Well, if you didn't hear about it, it must not have happened.
post #14 of 50
this explains though why apple is working directly with nvidia to supply the 7800gt rather than bashing out a Quad 7800gt via Asus graphics card or something. they work directly with nvidia to (a) verify acoustic modelling and (b) fine tune driver setups. assuming no major f* ups, the Quad with 7800gt and 1gb ram is a very very compelling package for mac users that can afford to drop that US$4,000. a solid 2 year package to fully "ride out" the Intel transition.
post #15 of 50
Quote:
Originally posted by zunx
Nice but... what about electrical power and noise levels?

Which are the power specs (max. Watts) of each of the new PowerMac G5 dual-core models?

How much does a sigle G5 core consume (max. Watts)? What about a doble-core G5?

Finally, what about noise (dB) levels?

I don't know the noise level, but it uses 10Amps max.It has a 16A cord and socket. The skngle chip models use much less and come with the old electricals.

A single core G5FX uses about 70 watts. A new G5MP. Uses, according to IBM, 100 watts max. An inprovement.

Why is this so important?
post #16 of 50
Quote:
Originally posted by NordicMan
Sounds great. What other component goodies may be supposed to be included besides the 1GB RAM and the 7800 GT?

It might come with a hard drive.

"Component upgrades". Other than the 1Gig RAM?
post #17 of 50
Quote:
Originally posted by jaronbrass
Of course, Apple fails (yet again) to deliver the product based on their own promises. Their PR said early November. Now it's mid to late November.

The vendor I ordered from said they were expecting stock (as told to them by Apple) on 11/2 and 11/3. That's since been revised.

It's annoying how this always happens with Apple.

A few weeks is no biggie. Thery aren't the only ones to have that problem.

You can always run out and buy a BOXX.
post #18 of 50
Quote:
Originally posted by sunilraman
this explains though why apple is working directly with nvidia to supply the 7800gt rather than bashing out a Quad 7800gt via Asus graphics card or something. they work directly with nvidia to (a) verify acoustic modelling and (b) fine tune driver setups. assuming no major f* ups, the Quad with 7800gt and 1gb ram is a very very compelling package for mac users that can afford to drop that US$4,000. a solid 2 year package to fully "ride out" the Intel transition.

One thing I'm wondering about, as I'm planning to get the Quad with the 7800 in Jan, is which chips are they using for the memory. I hope it's 2 512 chips. You know, they might just put 4 256's in. I wouldn't want that. I really want 4 GB's, but I didn't want to pay Apple $700 for it.

This is kind of screwy. I can't buy 3GB prpperly if they supply 1GB. I hate to throw it out, and I hate (well, I really don't HATE it, but...) to buy 2GB for $300.

DDR2 RAM prices are falling faster than DDR prices are, so maybe by Jan the prices will be lower.

But this leaves $500 for the board upgrade. More than I thought it would be. This board only goes for $425 or so. This is really too much considering that it replaces a board that we were being charged for already. So that makes it $600. Too much it seems.

Unless Apple is also giving a larger HD. Maybe a 400GB. But I don't see anything about that.

The web site now offers the 7800 upgrade for $350 which is at the low side of my original estimate. That's very good.

But this configuration doesn't make sense. With the 1Gig upgrade ($200) and the board upgrade ($350), I get a total of $3,850.

So where is the extra $150?
post #19 of 50
Forget the Quad (ironically, I used to own the Quadra). Waiting for the 2nd iteration of the Macintel machines. I'll wait for the bugs to work out of the 1st gen.

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post #20 of 50
Quote:
Originally posted by SpamSandwich
Forget the Quad (ironically, I used to own the Quadra). Waiting for the 2nd iteration of the Macintel machines. I'll wait for the bugs to work out of the 1st gen.

If you can wait for 2007 sometime, fine.
post #21 of 50
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
So where is the extra $150?

I would think that the "Power Mac G5 Quad Ultimate" might have a 500GB HDD as stock...

One can only hope...
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post #22 of 50
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
One thing I'm wondering about, as I'm planning to get the Quad with the 7800 in Jan, is which chips are they using for the memory. I hope it's 2 512 chips. You know, they might just put 4 256's in. I wouldn't want that. I really want 4 GB's, but I didn't want to pay Apple $700 for it.

This is kind of screwy. I can't buy 3GB prpperly if they supply 1GB. I hate to throw it out, and I hate (well, I really don't HATE it, but...) to buy 2GB for $300.

DDR2 RAM prices are falling faster than DDR prices are, so maybe by Jan the prices will be lower.

But this leaves $500 for the board upgrade. More than I thought it would be. This board only goes for $425 or so. This is really too much considering that it replaces a board that we were being charged for already. So that makes it $600. Too much it seems.

Unless Apple is also giving a larger HD. Maybe a 400GB. But I don't see anything about that.

The web site now offers the 7800 upgrade for $350 which is at the low side of my original estimate. That's very good.

But this configuration doesn't make sense. With the 1Gig upgrade ($200) and the board upgrade ($350), I get a total of $3,850.

So where is the extra $150?

each extra $150 goes to 100 feet of jet fuel for steve's plane (haven't done the math, my sister-in-law works for shell aviation so maybe i should ask her about private jet fuel costs)

seriously though, i'm sure that will be covered in some other "component" cost eg. hard disk 10,000rpm or somefin' when you compare it to BTO options.

i strongly doubt that apple will supply 4x256mb ddr2 sticks. 2x512mb is more likely. so yeah that would mean you'd be able to add your 6x512mb to bring it to 4gb total quite easily... but yeah given that it ships with 2x256mb ddr2, hmmm....
post #23 of 50
Quote:
Originally posted by sunilraman
each extra $150 goes to 100 feet of jet fuel for steve's plane (haven't done the math, my sister-in-law works for shell aviation so maybe i should ask her about private jet fuel costs)

seriously though, i'm sure that will be covered in some other "component" cost eg. hard disk 10,000rpm or somefin' when you compare it to BTO options.

i strongly doubt that apple will supply 4x256mb ddr2 sticks. 2x512mb is more likely. so yeah that would mean you'd be able to add your 6x512mb to bring it to 4gb total quite easily... but yeah given that it ships with 2x256mb ddr2, hmmm....

Yeah sunil, but who wants to use 6 512 sticks? 4 1GB sticks is more like it. But $200 for 1GB is a bit much, don't you think? $300 is a better deal for 2GB, though still too much.

I can't understand their pricing scheme. Look at this.

512MB standard

1GB $200

2GB $300 either 4 512MB or 2 1GB sticks

4GB $700 either 8 512MB or 4 1GB sticks

8GB $1500 8 1GB sticks

So, we're being charged $100 for 512MB RAM to start.

Another $100 to get another 512MB to 1GB.

Then $100 for another 1GB to get to 2GB- sounds better.

Then $400 more for another 2GB to get to 4GB. Price went up per GB again.

Then $800 more for for another 4GB to get to 8GB.

It's slightly odd.

Why charge more for the first and second 512MB, then less for the 2nd GB, then more for the next 2 GB, then the same for the next 4GB?

In case that's confusing, I'm refering to price per GB.

And why would anybody WANT 4 or 8 512MB sticks anyway?

Oh, almost forgot. I don't think we can get a 10,000rpm S-ATA drive. Can we?
post #24 of 50
*sigh* yeah i don't think what apple does always makes sense \ a 10,000 rpm sata is possible if it is the Ultimate Quad. they might keep it at 7,200 rpm though and bump the size to 400 or 500 gigs. but who bloody knows with apple nowadays......

edit: 10,000rpm sata is unlikely.
post #25 of 50
Quote:
Originally posted by sunilraman
*sigh* yeah i don't think what apple does always makes sense \ a 10,000 rpm sata is possible if it is the Ultimate Quad. they might keep it at 7,200 rpm though and bump the size to 400 or 500 gigs. but who bloody knows with apple nowadays......

edit: 10,000rpm sata is unlikely.

Well, what I meant was, is there a 10,000SATA drive available?

I remember hearing about it being done, but I've never seen nor read about one actually being up for sale.
post #26 of 50
quite a few listed on froogle
post #27 of 50
Quote:
Originally posted by sunilraman
quite a few listed on froogle

Ok, now I'm lost. What the hell is froogle? Is this something out of your sick and twisted mind?
post #28 of 50
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
Ok, now I'm lost. What the hell is froogle? Is this something out of your sick and twisted mind?

wha... what sick and twisted mind?
http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=...Search+Froogle
post #29 of 50
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
I don't know the noise level, but it uses 10Amps max.It has a 16A cord and socket. The skngle chip models use much less and come with the old electricals.
A single core G5FX uses about 70 watts. A new G5MP. Uses, according to IBM, 100 watts max. An inprovement.
Why is this so important?

If you make the calculations, you end up with about 1,250 Watts. That is a heater and probably quite noisy. I would like a machine as quiet as possible and requiring as less power as possible. For comparisons, the maximum continuous power of the iMac G5 is 180W (http://www.apple.com/imac/specs.html).

That is not specified for the PowerMac G5 (http://www.apple.com/powermac/specs.html):

Electrical and environmental requirements
Line voltage: 100 - 125V AC or 200 - 240V AC (wide-range power supply input voltage)
Maximum current: At least 10A (low-voltage range) or 5A (high-voltage range)

Thus, 125 V x 10 A = 1,250 W

So where does all that power go? If each dual core G5 takes 100 W and the nVidia card takes another 100 W, that would mean 300 W for the Quad PowerMac G5 plus some extras for hard disks, etc (say, a total of 400 W). So where go the extra 850 W?

Or is it that the Quad PowerMac G5 just takes about 400 W instead of the 1,250 W calculated above? I would purchase it if consuming about 400 W but not if consuming 1,250 W.
post #30 of 50
dude, obviously it won't be drawing 10Amps, that's the maximum the cable is rated for... edit: 400W sounds sensible, thats 3.2A @ 125V and 1.67A @ 240V
post #31 of 50
Has anyone who received a new PowerMac G5 opened it up to see what the power supply is rated at?

The rating on the web site appears to be for "maximum current". For example, it's possible it might suck that much power for a brief moment when you hit the power button to turn it on. Judging by the power usage of previous PowerMac G5's, I would guess that it would "normally" be in the 250-450 watt range for the quad.
post #32 of 50
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
A single core G5FX uses about 70 watts. A new G5MP. Uses, according to IBM, 100 watts max. An inprovement.

Why is this so important?

For one, it costs money to operate, and generates a lot of heat, less for the new duals, but still more if you go for the quad.

Another, greater concern for me is the noise, though I don't think I am seriously considering a new computer anyway. I think the dual 2.5 is pretty loud when not idling, and the fans are IMO needlessly high in pitch when it does spin into high flow. My bet is that a quad is going to be worse unless they use better fans.

Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
Well, what I meant was, is there a 10,000SATA drive available?

I remember hearing about it being done, but I've never seen nor read about one actually being up for sale.

Western Digital has a line of Raptors, which are 10k drives for ATA-1xx or SATA. They are expensive, though last I checked, are a bit cheaper than their SCSI counterparts.
post #33 of 50
Looks like it's already available as a $350 BTO option at apple.com
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post #34 of 50
Originally posted by Robin Hood
...The rating on the web site appears to be for "maximum current". For example, it's possible it might suck that much power for a brief moment when you hit the power button to turn it on. Judging by the power usage of previous PowerMac G5's, I would guess that it would "normally" be in the 250-450 watt range for the quad.


that's what i was thinking. maybe they had to rate the Quad package including cable at 10A for "overhead" due to spikes, etc etc... \ i estimate 350W on average load, 500W at the very max. even hardcore PC rigs don't push past 500W unless you have some serious serious hardware
post #35 of 50
Originally posted by BigMcLargehuge
Looks like it's already available as a $350 BTO option at apple.com


nice. some configs here (USD) ... note the 7800gt pushes back your order to 6-8 weeks .. edit: actually, the street price of a 7800gt for pc is around $400 or over. so hey, not bad apple, offerin' it for $350. i bet you nVidia really wanted to get the 7800gt into mac users hands though, particularly a few months ahead of ati's x1800/ x1600 line. right now, nVidia owns the new powermac g5 line.


Not-Quite-Ultimate Quad

Subtotal \t$3,848.00
Estimated Ship:
6-8 weeks
Free Shipping
* 2.5GHz Quad-core PowerPC G5
* 1GB 533 DDR2 Non ECC SDRAM- 2x512
* 250GB Serial ATA - 7200rpm
* NVIDIA GeForce 7800 GT 256 MB SDRAM
* AirPort Extreme + Bluetooth built-in
* 16x SuperDrive DL (DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
* Apple Keyboard & Mighty Mouse - U.S English
* Mac OS X - U.S. English
* Accessory kit


TeraByte 7800GT Quad

Subtotal \t$4,723.00
Estimated Ship:
6-8 weeks
Free Shipping
* 2.5GHz Quad-core PowerPC G5
* 1GB 533 DDR2 Non ECC SDRAM- 2x512
* 2x500GB Serial ATA - 7200rpm
* NVIDIA GeForce 7800 GT 256 MB SDRAM
* AirPort Extreme + Bluetooth built-in
* 16x SuperDrive DL (DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
* Apple Keyboard & Mighty Mouse - U.S English
* Mac OS X - U.S. English
* Accessory kit


Quad To The Maxx

Subtotal \t$17,823.00
Estimated Ship:
3-4 weeks
Free Shipping
* 2.5GHz Quad-core PowerPC G5
* 16GB 533 DDR2 ECC SDRAM- 8x2GB
* 2x500GB Serial ATA - 7200rpm
* QUADRO FX 4500 512MB SDRAM
* AirPort Extreme + Bluetooth built-in
* 16x SuperDrive DL (DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
* Apple Keyboard & Mighty Mouse - U.S English
* Mac OS X - U.S. English
* Accessory kit
post #36 of 50
Quote:
Originally posted by sunilraman
Quad To The Maxx

Subtotal \t$17,823.00
Estimated Ship:
3-4 weeks
Free Shipping
* 2.5GHz Quad-core PowerPC G5
* 16GB 533 DDR2 ECC SDRAM- 8x2GB
* 2x500GB Serial ATA - 7200rpm
* QUADRO FX 4500 512MB SDRAM
* AirPort Extreme + Bluetooth built-in
* 16x SuperDrive DL (DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
* Apple Keyboard & Mighty Mouse - U.S English
* Mac OS X - U.S. English
* Accessory kit [/B]

Wow! that's sweet!
Too bad the price.
You can get this system cheaper if you buy RAM outside Apple for one. Plus you can save some more buying the HD outside too. But, I guess when you have cash to burn on a system like that you might not care to save few hundred dollars.
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post #37 of 50
Quote:
Originally posted by gugy
You can get this system cheaper if you buy RAM outside Apple for one.

Don't be so sure! Apple charges $9500 to get 16GB non-ecc ram. The same ram from crucial is $9741!
post #38 of 50
Quote:
Originally posted by Fluffy
Don't be so sure! Apple charges $9500 to get 16GB non-ecc ram. The same ram from crucial is $9741!

Kingston quoted me $8800 for 16GB of ECC, $8400 for 16GB non-ECC.

To fill all slots with 1GB modules (8GB), that would be $1600 for ECC, $1300 for non-ECC.
post #39 of 50
Thanks JeffDM for proving my point.

I can find 1GB modules that would be $99 each. So 8 gigs would be lass than $800.
Check this place:

www.macsales.com

I am pretty sure crucial.com and datamem.com the prices range from $99 to $120 for 1gig sticks.
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post #40 of 50
If you check out

http://www.pricegrabber.com/

you will see that Apple Store charges twice or more for the current price of RAM and hard disks. Amazing but true.

You can save A LOT not purchasing them from Apple.

You could even save a lot more not purchasing the Mac from Apple, but that is not possible for the moment (no Mac clones). A shame!
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