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PowerBook to gain iSight, iBook to go widescreen in 2006 - Page 3

post #81 of 239
And for those who want to know how a really cool camera integration in to the laptop lid will look like. CHeck out ASUS W5A 12.1" Widescreen Laptop:
Weighing just 1,6 kg (that is 1 Pound less than Apples 12" 2.1KG Powerbook) same depth and height and just 1" wider, but still is no Subnotebook because it includes a optical drive inside. And i am sure Apple will shave off that 1" on the side to make it just as wide as the current 12" PB.

ASUS W5A

And this is the same company that builds already some currenc Apple Products and will build a 13" Model for Apple.
post #82 of 239
Bad link there

Apple will need better performance

Quote:
No, no, I'm totally aware that there are built-in cameras out there, but I wonder about the quality.

Oh my bad. I'm totally feeling you on that. Doesn't seem like we'll get exemplarary quality but I guess it it's not that expensive to add let'em add it. The more video conferencing stuff out there the more software options we'll have. I'm thinking we're going to start seeing these added to standard desktop monitors as well.


I'd say I'm most excited about having some of the nifty wireless LAN options, light size new screens and hopefully a dock/replicator. Apple will surely toss in some other stuff as well.
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post #83 of 239
iSights look even tackier than built in camera's

someone is using one somewhere on the Episode III bonus DVD and its not really impressive at all...

building it in is far more elegant and further opens up iChat AV
post #84 of 239
Quote:
Originally posted by Commodus
I'm skeptical that Apple will have PowerBooks out even before iBooks. It does make sense given that just about any Pentium M chip would make the iBook faster than the PowerBook; even so, I don't know if Apple would really want to push things out the door so soon. I'd think Intel iBooks in April/May followed by PowerBooks in June/July, when in theory Apple could have Merom cores (generally more efficient than Yonah).

I've been thinking about this a lot, and it seems as though Apple has a problem here.

If they come out with the iBooks first, as had been assumed, they they would be more powerful than the PB's.

This won't do!

If they come out with the PB's first, it solves that horrendus problem, but if the proper pro software isn't moved over yet, there will still be some performance problems, with the risk that some programs won't run at all.

It seems to me that the 15" and 17" MUST be introduced at the same time for the same reasons. Who is going to buy a now much slower and obsolete 17", when the new 15" is out. Ouch!

The same problem with the Mini and any possible replacement for the eMac. If Apple wants to equip them with new cpu's they have to be careful to not out power the iMac line while at the same time not be seen as deliberately underpowering them.
post #85 of 239
That Asus product is hideous... but if Apple could make it look like the patent drawings, then everything will be fine
post #86 of 239
Quote:
Originally posted by a_greer
Come on -- The camera built into the powerbook makes no logical sence, -- it is too deep for the lid, and that would make a huge bezle on the display too -- something the PBs are famous for NOT having. the mongerer of this rumor should lay off the weed

I keep saying the same thing, but engineering logic seems to have nothing to do with these rumors.

They predicted the cameras for the models that just came out as well.

They aren't really talking to anyone about these things. They're just guessing. Since they aren't engineers themselves, they don't understand the problems involved.
post #87 of 239
Quote:
Originally posted by Trans9B
so i guess you haven't seen the patents apple has already filed then? idiot. i'd dig around here and link you to them, but i really would rather not bother for such a ridiculous comment.

Why are you calling him an idiot? It doesn't matter what patents Apple has filed. If I had a buck for every patent that Apple filed but didn't use, I would own this site with just that money.

Just remember that Thinksecret and Appleinsider are wrong far more often than they are right.

And why don't you pull those patents? I'm sure most of us would love to see them again.
post #88 of 239
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
Wrong. The Sony Vaio BX series has a webcam option that fits righ into the top of the LCD frame. Apple won't be the first here to integrate webcams into a laptop.

http://b2b.sony.com/Solutions/subcat...ooks/bx-series

I hope Apple is smart enough to put a dock/port replicator into these new books. And how about a Dock that can run dual monitors as well. That'll get the attention of plenty of PC users.

Sony doesn't have a good picture there, so it's hard to make out where it is exactly and such, but it does look rather crummy.

Sony also seems to have moved the latch off center. This isn't the best idea.

Sony's instructions to tilt the screen to get the best picture of a conference also seems to be silly. You have the computer pointed to one side of the table so that everyone has to move to that side instead of facing each other. And, of course, you can't actually USE the computer while all this is going on.

If a conference should be recorded, it would be done better with a $300 mini Dv, and a $25 tripod. These can be located so that everyone is in view.

These cameras are really just meant for teleconferencing with the one user. That seems pretty limited a use for a laptop at this time.
post #89 of 239
A dual-core Powerbook that can run OS X and windows at full speed would
be a dream machine. I only hope that if I use it to surf the web in windows, it doesn't somehow get a virus (or spyware) into the MAC OS part of it.
post #90 of 239
I've just had a premonition about the next Powerbooks. Apple will be the first company to have a height adjustable laptop screen. It will be able to raise height up to 3" and swivel left to right. Plust you'll have a little front to back action as well. This will ease any problems with webcams and overall screen viewing.
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post #91 of 239
Quote:
Originally posted by Existence
Haven't you heard? The Mac Mini is going to be killed.

Where have you heard this? Why would Apple kill it? I thought they killed eMac in favor of mini for the low-cost and education markets. To kill both would be foolish.

Regarding other people's comments about the image quality of a built-in camera, I doubt it will be spectacular, but it doesn't need to be. It is simply an inexpensive means to conduct a video meeting. It shouldn't be considered a substitute for a regular camcorder or still camera.
post #92 of 239
You can bet your bippy that the 12-inch PowerBook is dead. The Mac mini, on the other hand, will still be around. I think the mini was made with Intel processors in mind. If you will recall, Intel announced something very very similar after the mini launched. Coincidence?

As far as the rumored 15-inch PB is concerned.... I think it will have everything everyone has been clamouring for. Most all of it will be possible thanks to Intel. This includes a much better and much brighter display, better graphics card, built-in card reader, better airport, better battery life, better everything.

I bet you that Apple is finalizing or close to finalizing the release of one Intel product, even if it doesn't happen to be the PowerBook.

I think by the time January rolls around, Apple will have ported most or all of its apps into Universal Binaries, including Final Cut Pro (5.1?), Motion, Aperature, and iLife. They will bring onstage other companies of popular apps that will have Intel native versions available that will simply require just a software update.

These are exiciting times. I can't wait until it gets all underway.
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post #93 of 239
Quote:
Originally posted by JeffDM
Where have you heard this? Why would Apple kill it? I thought they killed eMac in favor of mini for the low-cost and education markets. To kill both would be foolish.

Regarding other people's comments about the image quality of a built-in camera, I doubt it will be spectacular, but it doesn't need to be. It is simply an inexpensive means to conduct a video meeting. It shouldn't be considered a substitute for a regular camcorder or still camera.

Jeff, I really can't see why anyone would want to record a meeting with something like this. What would be the point?

If someone really wanted to record the meeting with their computer, wasting its resources that way, it would be better to simply plug an isight in, and put it somewhere where it will be properly positioned. That way you could also use the computer while you are recording.

I you're NOT going to use the computer, then it's better to use the miniDv as I mentioned.
post #94 of 239
how about this--OLED display, flash based 32g "hard drive" with a 1" 30-40GIG perpendicular HD, backup the screen and "flash" would save enough energy to give it industry leading battery life--wouldn't this array approach 6-8 hours?? and be thin and very light.
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post #95 of 239
Quote:
Originally posted by NOFEER
how about this--OLED display, flash based 32g "hard drive" with a 1" 30-40GIG perpendicular HD, backup the screen and "flash" would save enough energy to give it industry leading battery life--wouldn't this array approach 6-8 hours?? and be thin and very light.

Thin, light and expensive.

Would you plan on picking one up at a likely projected price of $8,000?
post #96 of 239
Quote:
Originally posted by Carson O'Genic
You could have tried to say that a little nicer couldn't you? Disagree if you wish, but try some manners.

You quoted an agreeable, well-mannered comment from imiloa.
post #97 of 239
Quote:
Originally posted by DHagan4755
You can bet your bippy that the 12-inch PowerBook is dead.

Well, at least that's the lesson from the last powerbook update for me. The iBooks (in summer) and the big Powerbooks got something extra, only the 12" Powerbook remained unchanged. Even the 12" iBook with its 512 MB RAM in one slot is more appealing.
post #98 of 239
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
Jeff, I really can't see why anyone would want to record a meeting with something like this. What would be the point?

I really didn't think it was that hard to find reasons. Notes, dictations, evesdropping, blackmail and so on. People are often less reserved when they don't think they are being recorded, they might say things they would later regret if something were recorded. In "secure" situations, discussions of secrets might take place that some people want to hear, and others don't want to leak. I can think of two pretty major political scandals have come about because of information recorded onto some sort of audio device or were supported by such evidence.
post #99 of 239
would you suspect that the new pb have 802.11 e????
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post #100 of 239
Quote:
Originally posted by a_greer
I hope laptops dont go this direction...I CANNOT get a good, hi-end (color screen, bluetooth, SMS, wireless web) phone without a camera from Verizon, Cingular or Sprint...the last thing I need is to not be able to get a laptop without a camera in it! If I want/need a camera, I WILL BUY ONE!

The iMac cam makes perfect sence, but on a professional laptop? hell no!

Did you ever use the PC-Card slot in your Powerbook?
And was it really so unbearable to have something build into your Powerbook that you have never used but nevertheless payed for?
post #101 of 239
Quote:
Originally posted by a_greer
The iSight has a good ccd, and good optics. The CCD thing is likely workable, but the optics would likely sacrifice a ton...the 2-inch thick iMac leaves a lot of space that a ~1/4 inch lid does not, and as for it being mounted in the base, I sayt no for 2 reasons
1: bad angle/lighting
2: same as before, te space is already occupied (unless you could sacrifice a FW port or maybe the PCIMCA slot on the 15/17 inch models)


Also, the power books are a PRO unit, most pros alreay have a camera that has far better optics that could be used as a web cam...so I ask again, WHY DO THIS?

It is like the proverbial answer without a question

i understand. but i travel quite a bit with my powerbook and having to carry a whole isight camera and cables is sort of a pain in the ass. if it was built it it would be more convenient, even if the quality were slightly worse. do i NEED to bring it with me when i travel? no, but it's nice to have. i don't need a built in camera but i wouldn't complain if my next powerbook had one.
post #102 of 239
Quote:
Originally posted by sc_markt
A dual-core Powerbook that can run OS X and windows at full speed would
be a dream machine. I only hope that if I use it to surf the web in windows, it doesn't somehow get a virus (or spyware) into the MAC OS part of it.

After using OSX, why would anyone wants to do anything in Windows? I sincerely hope that you are NOT running IE...

And if you need the IE rendering engine, you can use Netscape under OSX.

Personally, I don't see why I want to do anything under Windows anymore. Perhaps for games.
post #103 of 239
Quote:
Originally posted by JeffDM
I really didn't think it was that hard to find reasons. Notes, dictations, evesdropping, blackmail and so on. People are often less reserved when they don't think they are being recorded, they might say things they would later regret if something were recorded. In "secure" situations, discussions of secrets might take place that some people want to hear, and others don't want to leak. I can think of two pretty major political scandals have come about because of information recorded onto some sort of audio device or were supported by such evidence.

Heh, I'm not sure a laptop would be a good covert recording device. Besides, there is likely something happening to let you know you are recording.

Notes and dictations just needs voice. I doubt if you could get away with an open laptop pointed at your subject, or even be allowed to turn it on.
post #104 of 239
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
Heh, I'm not sure a laptop would be a good covert recording device. Besides, there is likely something happening to let you know you are recording.

Notes and dictations just needs voice. I doubt if you could get away with an open laptop pointed at your subject, or even be allowed to turn it on.

And by the same token, a laptop is not a good covert photographic device.
post #105 of 239
Quote:
Originally posted by noirdesir
And by the same token, a laptop is not a good covert photographic device.

Kind of clumsy too. I can see someone holding an open 17" laptop, and twisting around to point the camera and mic everytime the subject moves. Eventually the person would screw themselves into the floor.
post #106 of 239
Quote:
Originally posted by kmok1
After using OSX, why would anyone wants to do anything in Windows?

AutoCad
AutoDesk
AutoCad

Some of us are bound by a Windows world in some form or fashion. AutoCad is mine (not because of me but my customer base).
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post #107 of 239
Quote:
Originally posted by aplnub
AutoCad
AutoDesk
AutoCad

Some of us are bound by a Windows world in some form or fashion. AutoCad is mine (not because of me but my customer base).

Do you think OS X and the switch to Intel processors would lure AutoDesk to port their application ?
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post #108 of 239
Apple could offer a 15" with iSight, a 15" without iSight, a 17" with iSight, and a 17" without iSight.

No need for BTO options, having two models of each makes more sense to me.

-DG
post #109 of 239
Quote:
Originally posted by DHagan4755
Do you think OS X and the switch to Intel processors would lure AutoDesk to port their application ?

There have been surveys done in conjunction with AutoDesk about whether there were enough architects who would buy it.

Go here:

http://www.architosh.com/
post #110 of 239
Quote:
Originally posted by DHagan4755
Do you think OS X and the switch to Intel processors would lure AutoDesk to port their application ?

No. I am hopeful that VPC will allow me to run AutoCad at decent speeds while in OS X. If that is the case, then all is well. It is my only hope for eliminating a PC at my work. Switching between my mini and gateway sucks. Especially since my mini uses the VGA port and makes for a dim screen.
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post #111 of 239
Can't wait for the 15" X86 PowerBook, (hopefully its as good as they say ), and the camera... ...I think I can find something to do with it, (as long as they don't screw too much with the design.

I just wish they would put in a SD slot or something of the sort
post #112 of 239
Quote:
Originally posted by aplnub
No. I am hopeful that VPC will allow me to run AutoCad at decent speeds while in OS X. If that is the case, then all is well. It is my only hope for eliminating a PC at my work. Switching between my mini and gateway sucks. Especially since my mini uses the VGA port and makes for a dim screen.

Don't even think about it. I've tried it.
post #113 of 239
Quote:
Originally posted by aplnub
No. I am hopeful that VPC will allow me to run AutoCad at decent speeds while in OS X.

No way José! I don't think even a Virtual PC for x86 OS X will be any bargain.

Quote:
Originally posted by zpisnon
I just wish they would put in a SD slot or something of the sort

A multi-card reader would be a big time bonus. Especially for all to photogs out there. Throw in a PowerBook + Aperature package deal, and it would be a boon to the professional photographer.
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post #114 of 239
I was wondering...

If Apple is to use a dual-core Yonah in the first Intel PowerBook, how would the speed compare to the G5...let's say the low-end dual-core 2GHz Power Mac G5?
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post #115 of 239
Quote:
Originally posted by DHagan4755
I was wondering...

If Apple is to use a dual-core Yonah in the first Intel PowerBook, how would the speed compare to the G5...let's say the low-end dual-core 2GHz Power Mac G5?

If it was a dual core 2Ghz Yonah I'd say it'd be at least %33 faster than a single G5.

However if we're talking about a low end 2Ghz DC G5 the yonah wouldn't be faster. The G5 has more execution units and a better FPU. I think we'll have to wait for Merom before we see something from Intel on par with the G5 clock for clock.
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post #116 of 239
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
I keep saying the same thing, but engineering logic seems to have nothing to do with these rumors.

They predicted the cameras for the models that just came out as well.

They aren't really talking to anyone about these things. They're just guessing. Since they aren't engineers themselves, they don't understand the problems involved.

Two words: Folded optics. High quality cameras nowadays can be incredibly small for their quality. Look at the Minolta Dimage X1. 8 megapixels with a 3x optical zoom lens in a body 0.8 inches thick with no protruding lens. You don't think Apple can go smaller with a lower, webcam-resolution pickup and a fixed focal length lens? Especially since Sony has had swiveling cams on their subnotebooks for years now.

Anybody who thinks a webcam-equipped PB could be used for boardroom espionage has been watching too much James Bond. Without a zoom lens, you're not going to get a good picture of the whiteboard from across the conference table. And then there's the relatively low resolution of a webcam, which won't allow much detail to be captured.

I still think Apple should replace the 12" PB with a 10" widescreen rather than a 13". The 10" would differentiate it from a 13" iBook (which they should consolidate the 12 and 14" iBooks to in order to simplify that line) and open up a new market niche to Apple, namely the road warriors who want the smallest, lightest laptops they can get. Give us a VGA/DVI out and we can still plug in big LCDs and projectors for extended use.
post #117 of 239
Quote:
Originally posted by Kolchak
Two words: Folded optics. High quality cameras nowadays can be incredibly small for their quality. Look at the Minolta Dimage X1. 8 megapixels with a 3x optical zoom lens in a body 0.8 inches thick with no protruding lens. You don't think Apple can go smaller with a lower, webcam-resolution pickup and a fixed focal length lens? Especially since Sony has had swiveling cams on their subnotebooks for years now.

Anybody who thinks a webcam-equipped PB could be used for boardroom espionage has been watching too much James Bond. Without a zoom lens, you're not going to get a good picture of the whiteboard from across the conference table. And then there's the relatively low resolution of a webcam, which won't allow much detail to be captured.

I still think Apple should replace the 12" PB with a 10" widescreen rather than a 13". The 10" would differentiate it from a 13" iBook (which they should consolidate the 12 and 14" iBooks to in order to simplify that line) and open up a new market niche to Apple, namely the road warriors who want the smallest, lightest laptops they can get. Give us a VGA/DVI out and we can still plug in big LCDs and projectors for extended use.

Apple is going for a .25" thick panel. That panel has ro have a thickness to the metal or plastic. A hole in the front for the camera lens, fine. But the back has to have some thickness. How much does this leave? Less than .2"?

I'm sure that something can be done. But Apple is concerned with quality of the image. I don't think that they would do something that would give a poor image. The top of the Sony hmurchison led us to was a good .375" thick. I don't think the image will be very good on that. They didn't show an example of the quality on the site, so it might not be much.

I don't think that Apple would be happy with that. There are liquid lens's designed for cellphones, though I don't know if one has actually been in service yet. They adjust focus by applying a voltage across the liquid cell, which deformes the shape, in the fashion of our eye. But while that would fit, the quality isn't up to the 640 x480 standards Apple would need.

Folded optics still need room, and are expensive. Optical grade fiber is also expensive.

I'm sure they could do it if they really wanted to, but it might add too much to the price if Apple really wants to thin down the enclosures. Too much to the bulk if they don't.
post #118 of 239
AAAAAAHhhHHHHH! AAAAAAAHHHHH! Thhis thread is 3333 years old!
post #119 of 239
Quote:
Originally posted by noirdesir
Did you ever use the PC-Card slot in your Powerbook?
And was it really so unbearable to have something build into your Powerbook that you have never used but nevertheless payed for?


I use the pc card slot often.
post #120 of 239
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
It seems to me that the 15" and 17" MUST be introduced at the same time for the same reasons. Who is going to buy a now much slower and obsolete 17", when the new 15" is out. Ouch!

At first I thought the same thing. But on second thought I no longer think so.

I agree that the iBook cannot move to Intel first, not unless they reduce the CPU speed so the iBook ends up slower than the PPC PowerBook. And that will likely not happen. Why move the iBook to Intel if it ends up as slow as the current iBook model?
Apple will have to move the PowerBook and the iBook line at the same time.

But it was agreed that moving the PowerBooks, the 'pro' line, to Intel first is a rather risky business. What if the design has major unknown bugs? What if OSX/Intel has some? And add those to the rather infamous bugs found in the first model of any new PowerBook generation. Not good.


A good way out of this dilemma is to split the 'pro' line. Move the 15" PowerBook to Intel first. This might seem to eat into 17" sales, but I feel those customers are probably unwilling to be the guinea pigs on the plunge to Intel anyway. Sure they'd want the speed and dual core CPUs, but if your business depends on this machine, would you risk buying a potentially buggy solution, perhaps not really working as advertised?
Therefore pro customers will likely much rather adopt a wait-and-see approach. And they'd also much rather see their applications compiled natively for Intel before they move. I assume they will wait with their PowerBook purchase until the next program update cycle anyway.

In that light it makes sense that Apple offers only the 15" model with Intel first, allowing conservative 'pro' customers to still be able to buy a 17" PPC PowerBook.
And as the 17" allows for better cooling perhaps Apple can even eek out a small performance boost on the PPC chip one last time for the 17" model at the same time they introduce the 15" Intel model.


Other than that I can see Apple offering current PPC PowerBook models alongside the new Intel models for some time. Like they did with the OS9 bootable PowerMacs.
But offering 15" and 17" models in Intel and PPC versions seems a bit much. Therefore it is likely only one of them or they split the 15" or 17" models as mentioned above.

[edit to clear up the meaning of some sentences]
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