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Picasa is so much better than iPhoto - Page 4

post #121 of 151
Guys can we calm it. Apple told us in 1984 we should forget command-line and yet in 2005 there is more need for it than ever before in OS X. I want a fully GUI OS. Apple should include backup - they do not. Is this really the only feature that Picasa offers that iPhoto does not. Also iLife '06 will be out in a month - let's just wait and see if it includes a backup function.
post #122 of 151
As I've been saying *repeatedly* in this thread, I fully agree that there needs to be a generalized backup solution shipped with the OS. I'm not entirely sure how anyone could mis-interpret otherwise.

And this thread is pretty much done, as far as I can tell. If no one has anything of actual content to add...
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post #123 of 151
Quote:
Originally posted by Kickaha
If no one has anything of actual content to add...

That would be you. And you little play of semantics. It's not backup, but archiving.

Anyway, I'm all done with this thread. So long, dudes.
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post #124 of 151
Quote:
Originally posted by Gene Clean
That would be you. And you little play of semantics. It's not backup, but archiving.

Anyway, I'm all done with this thread. So long, dudes.

It's hardly semantics; he's using those words to mean distinctly different things.
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post #125 of 151
Kickaha,

you are not the only one beating their head against a wall. As many have said, simply copying the iPhoto library folder to an external HD is NOT a backup solution. The proof? When you copy that folder back, all the iPhoto 'links' are gone. No album data. Multiple pictures if original edited (even a simple rotation).

Look, I'll put it differently. In Word, for example, you create a document. It is one file. In finder you can see it. To back it up copy it (or use a backup program) somewhere and you're done.0.

iPhoto hides all the files from you - it creates multiple copies you know nothing about. You are not supposed to!

So when the 'backup' is copied back you DO NOT end up with the position you started with. I keep repeating ad nauseum that my iPhoto library now has at least double the actual photos I've made due to all these duplicates appearing.

Why is this hard to understand? I mentioned earlier that I use Silverkeeper as my backup program. It does not achieve its aims due to something in iPhoto - because of that it is up to iPhoto's creaters to give us a backup routine that works.

BTW .Macs Backup - is there anyone here who can confirm that they successfully restored an iPhoto library using this product, where the library did have a significant number of edited pictures?

Regards,

David

PS I refuse to buy more backup programs until I know it can do what I need, otherwise I might as well stick with Silverkeeper.
post #126 of 151
Quote:
Originally posted by iMac David
Kickaha,

you are not the only one beating their head against a wall. As many have said, simply copying the iPhoto library folder to an external HD is NOT a backup solution. The proof? When you copy that folder back, all the iPhoto 'links' are gone. No album data. Multiple pictures if original edited (even a simple rotation).

Are you sure something didn't go wrong?

I just copied one of my iPhoto libraries to an external drive. Then copied it back to the original drive. Everything seems fine. I can even "Revert to Original" on an image I changed before copying it over.

Was that a one-time thing, or is it reproducible for you?

Also, what about selecting your library in iPhoto and clicking the Burn button. Does that not work?
post #127 of 151
Burning to optical doesn't preserve the metadata, which is what most people want, me included.

David, I don't know what to tell you, I've never had the problem you're experiencing, and apparently most other people have had it work as well. When the anecdotal evidence indicates you're in the minority, maybe it's time to look to local problems? I'm more than willing to help you figure out what's going on, but it might be best done over PM until a solution is reached to share with the group.

I ran into another issue last night that archiving would solve - merging libraries. It would allow you to move photos *with metadata* out of one library on one machine, and add them to another, preserving that metadata. This is what's really needed - the ability to save photos with metadata. iTunes accomplishes this by using the ID3 tags, so that the info is always with the file. I'm still trying to figure out why iPhoto doesn't use the EXIM data - as I understand it, EXIM is an acceptable part of JPEG, RAW, GIF, PDF, and basically any file iPhoto will run into, so why isn't it being used? Anyone know?
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post #128 of 151
Quote:
Are you sure something didn't go wrong?

well, obviously it did go wrong! Sorry, couldn't resist.

I think the problem is when you are copying the folder back to iPhoto when the iPhoto is a new install on a new HD. So the only way for me to see if I can reproduce the problem would be to reinstall iPhoto from scratch.

I'm not sure if I want to do that as I've already spent several weeks cleaning up my library, removing all the duplicate images (and I'm only 50% through the library). If it goes wrong again then I'll have to redo it.

Kickaha, I may be in the minority, but how many people have restored the library to a fresh version of iPhoto?

Regards,

David
post #129 of 151
Quote:
Originally posted by iMac David
Kickaha, I may be in the minority, but how many people have restored the library to a fresh version of iPhoto?

I think this could be the problem - I've only ever restored to the current version of iPhoto - it shouldn't make a lot of difference though.
post #130 of 151
Quote:
Originally posted by iMac David
well, obviously it did go wrong! Sorry, couldn't resist.

I think the problem is when you are copying the folder back to iPhoto when the iPhoto is a new install on a new HD. So the only way for me to see if I can reproduce the problem would be to reinstall iPhoto from scratch.

I'm not sure if I want to do that as I've already spent several weeks cleaning up my library, removing all the duplicate images (and I'm only 50% through the library). If it goes wrong again then I'll have to redo it.

Kickaha, I may be in the minority, but how many people have restored the library to a fresh version of iPhoto?

Regards,

David

You're probably going to hate this, but I did *precisely* that last night. My wife's hard drive had a problem, so I did the recover/reformat/reinstall/restore dance. Took the opportunity to play with it a bit to try and reproduce your situation.

Reformatted hard drive, fresh installation of iPhoto, copied the folder right back where it was, and... it all worked exactly as I would have hoped.

:}

The only thing I can think of is that maybe you backed up from one version of iPhoto, say iPhoto 4, upgraded to iPhoto 5, then restored?
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post #131 of 151
I've used iPhoto for one thing ever, and it was hard as hell when it shouldn't have been. I never open iPhoto anymore.

Perhaps when a new iPhoto is released I'll consider touching it again. Until then, nuh-uh, no way, I'm not going near it.
post #132 of 151
It would be nice if there was a flipping FULL SCREEN button in iPhoto. That is SERIOUSLY the thing that I want most, besides back-up of course.
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post #133 of 151
Bringing an old thread back from the dead...

Quote:
This is what's really needed - the ability to save photos with metadata. iTunes accomplishes this by using the ID3 tags, so that the info is always with the file. I'm still trying to figure out why iPhoto doesn't use the EXIM data - as I understand it, EXIM is an acceptable part of JPEG, RAW, GIF, PDF, and basically any file iPhoto will run into, so why isn't it being used? Anyone know?

Here's the deal. iPhoto stores metadata not in the image file itself but instead in a seperate location. I don't know where.

Picasa stores metadata in the image file itself. That means it's completely portable. I never have to worry about losing the data I attach to an image. If I copy a file from Windows to my Mac that I added keywords to in Picasa then Spotlight will index the metadata. Further, iPhoto will see the keywords. However, Apple provides no method to embed metadata. This is very unfortunate. I have little use for iPhoto until they do. By the way, there are ways to embed metadata in OS X. Informator is one program that will do it. It's not terribly efficient though and it doesn't work very well on Intel Macs.

Microsoft Vista includes an easy way to add keywords to files. They got it right this time. The keywords are embedded, not added to a database and indexed.

The interface for adding keywords in Picasa is also MUCH more efficient than the one in iPhoto. If you have hundreds of keywords, the selection method in iPhoto is pretty much unusable.
post #134 of 151
Quote:
Originally posted by Daffy_Duck
Bringing an old thread back from the dead...



Here's the deal. iPhoto stores metadata not in the image file itself but instead in a seperate location. I don't know where.

Picasa stores metadata in the image file itself. That means it's completely portable. I never have to worry about losing the data I attach to an image. If I copy a file from Windows to my Mac that I added keywords to in Picasa then Spotlight will index the metadata. Further, iPhoto will see the keywords. However, Apple provides no method to embed metadata. This is very unfortunate. I have little use for iPhoto until they do. By the way, there are ways to embed metadata in OS X. Informator is one program that will do it. It's not terribly efficient though and it doesn't work very well on Intel Macs.

Microsoft Vista includes an easy way to add keywords to files. They got it right this time. The keywords are embedded, not added to a database and indexed.

The interface for adding keywords in Picasa is also MUCH more efficient than the one in iPhoto. If you have hundreds of keywords, the selection method in iPhoto is pretty much unusable.

Would be nice to have a hierarchical list of keyword like Aperture...

...although, we're talking about iPhoto here: a consumer app. Picasa's downfall will be adding complexity to the app beyond joe shmoe's needs.
post #135 of 151
Quote:
Originally posted by kim kap sol
Would be nice to have a hierarchical list of keyword like Aperture...

...although, we're talking about iPhoto here: a consumer app. Picasa's downfall will be adding complexity to the app beyond joe shmoe's needs.

Consider this. In Picasa, keywording ability is hidden altogether unless you open the keyword dialog from one of the menus yet it remains better than iPhoto.

One thing iPhoto does much better than Picasa is searching. Picasa only has very rudimentary searching built in. You cannot exclude items that have certain metadata.

Picasa is much more robust in terms of the number of images it can handle. I am not sure but I think it accomplishes this by treating each folder of images like a new database.

Picasa has a cool interface and animations that you would expect from Apple, not Google.
post #136 of 151
The latest version of iPhoto kills Picasa. Please let this thread be dead.
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post #137 of 151
I have a bunch of photos with an incorrect date as my camera was incorrectly set. As such, they appear in totally the wrong place in the library.

Is it possible to change the date somehow in iPhoto - I haven't see how to in the previous versions.

Cheers,

David
post #138 of 151
Quote:
Originally posted by kcmac
The latest version of iPhoto kills Picasa. Please let this thread be dead.

Uh, no it doesn't and saying something like that is not going to end the thread.

I'll summarize my main issues with iPhoto (latest version of course):

- It doesn't handle metadata properly and it's interface for adding metadata is too cumbersome. Picasa wins hands down here. And for me, this is the whole point of using a cataloging program. I don't need the photo editing...I use Photoshop for that. iPhoto does nothing for me that I can't accomplish with smart folders.

- It cannot handle nearly the number of photos that Picasa can before massive slowdowns. And this is on my shiny new 2GHz MacBook Pro vs. Picasa 2.0 on an 2 year old AMD desktop.

By the way, I hope you understand that I want Apple to make iPhoto better. I know they probably won't read this but the squeaky wheel gets greased. Users can help dictate what features are worked on for the next version and I am just hoping they are going to improve on the areas I outlined above instead of just adding new features I don't need.
post #139 of 151
Quote:
Originally posted by Daffy_Duck
Uh, no it doesn't and saying something like that is not going to end the thread.

I'll summarize my main issues with iPhoto (latest version of course):

- It doesn't handle metadata properly and it's interface for adding metadata is too cumbersome. Picasa wins hands down here. And for me, this is the whole point of using a cataloging program. I don't need the photo editing...I use Photoshop for that. iPhoto does nothing for me that I can't accomplish with smart folders.

- It cannot handle nearly the number of photos that Picasa can before massive slowdowns. And this is on my shiny new 2GHz MacBook Pro vs. Picasa 2.0 on an 2 year old AMD desktop.

By the way, I hope you understand that I want Apple to make iPhoto better. I know they probably won't read this but the squeaky wheel gets greased. Users can help dictate what features are worked on for the next version and I am just hoping they are going to improve on the areas I outlined above instead of just adding new features I don't need.

Well, you see, the world doesn't revolve around a single person and, as an unfortunate side effect, features that *you* want may not necessarily be features that 90% of the world wants.

What I suggest is that you send Apple feedback...if enough people want better metadata handling and faster handling of pictures, Apple will do whatever is necessary to add this in the next version of iPhoto.

I'm curious though, how many pictures do you have and how is iPhoto '06 slow? It's been nothing but fast here...and I've got a 5 year old computer.
post #140 of 151
Quote:
Originally posted by kim kap sol
I'm curious though, how many pictures do you have and how is iPhoto '06 slow? It's been nothing but fast here...and I've got a 5 year old computer.

Enough to cause it to slow down. Not sure how many exactly but I take a lot of pictures. I'll take your advice and contact Apple.
post #141 of 151
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post #142 of 151
Quote:
Originally posted by Daffy_Duck
Enough to cause it to slow down. Not sure how many exactly but I take a lot of pictures. I'll take your advice and contact Apple.

Do you even use iPhoto? The number of photos in you Library is clearly displayed at the bottom of the window.
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post #143 of 151
Quote:
Originally posted by ChrisG
Do you even use iPhoto? The number of photos in you Library is clearly displayed at the bottom of the window.

I only use it for photos I download from webshots to be used as backgrounds. I tried loading a lot of photos into it and wasn't happy with the performance. So, I decided to split it up into several libraries using iPhoto buddy. Then I came to the dissapointing conclusion that not only was iPhoto not embedding the keywords I added but Spotlight wasn't even indexing them.

Here's a scenario. I am on vacation and I take some photos with my camera and copy them to my Macbook and add some keywords. When I get home, I copy them over the network to my server which is a Windows machine. I do this because my MacBook has limited space while my server has lots of space. I want the keywords I added to go along with the photos.
post #144 of 151
Quote:
Originally posted by kim kap sol
Well, you see, the world doesn't revolve around a single person and, as an unfortunate side effect, features that *you* want may not necessarily be features that 90% of the world wants. ...if enough people want better metadata handling and faster handling of pictures, Apple will do whatever is necessary to add this in the next version of iPhoto.

i think everyone wants faster handling of photos - that's why it's the "new" feature in every version! For me iPhoto has become unbearably slow and this is only with 6,000 photos - most of which at 8MP.
post #145 of 151
Quote:
Originally posted by MacCrazy
i think everyone wants faster handling of photos - that's why it's the "new" feature in every version! For me iPhoto has become unbearably slow and this is only with 6,000 photos - most of which at 8MP.

Well it runs smooth on my 13Mhz, 2MB RAM, 128MB HD computer, and all of this while I'm ripping a CD in iTunes, burning a disc using iDVD and watching some pr0n using QuickTime.

Something must be wrong with your photos or your computer

oh yeah, I got it, get a PowerMac!!11!
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post #146 of 151
Quote:
Originally posted by MacCrazy
i think everyone wants faster handling of photos - that's why it's the "new" feature in every version! For me iPhoto has become unbearably slow and this is only with 6,000 photos - most of which at 8MP.

Actually, the speed issue is not a dealbreaker for me. I don't mind seperating into multiple libraries and I know that is one area Apple will continue to improve. I just want better handling of metadata.
post #147 of 151
Quote:
Originally posted by Daffy_Duck
Consider this. In Picasa, keywording ability is hidden altogether unless you open the keyword dialog from one of the menus yet it remains better than iPhoto.

On my windows box, it comes up with the metadata entry window whenever you aquier new pics, you can apply keywords to individual pics or the whole group.
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post #148 of 151
Quote:
Originally posted by MacCrazy
i think everyone wants faster handling of photos - that's why it's the "new" feature in every version! For me iPhoto has become unbearably slow and this is only with 6,000 photos - most of which at 8MP.

What are you running it on? My mac mini can cut through iPhoto 06 like nothing, and that is with only 512 MB ram (the lowest I would recomend for anything is 1 gig, 2 gigs+ (or max supported) if you like to keep most of your apps open)
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post #149 of 151
Quote:
Originally posted by a_greer
On my windows box, it comes up with the metadata entry window whenever you aquier new pics, you can apply keywords to individual pics or the whole group.

It only shows up on mine if I hit Ctrl-K or choose from the menu. I don't know how you aquire photos but I use the "add folder to picasa" option. When I do this it starts generating thumbnails without popping up the keyword entry box.
post #150 of 151
Quote:
Originally posted by a_greer
What are you running it on? My mac mini can cut through iPhoto 06 like nothing, and that is with only 512 MB ram (the lowest I would recomend for anything is 1 gig, 2 gigs+ (or max supported) if you like to keep most of your apps open)

I'm using iLife '05 on a PowerBook G4 1.67GHz with 100GB 5400 RPM, 128MB GPU and 1 GB RAM.
post #151 of 151
Quote:
Originally posted by drumsticks
From what I can remember, Picasa (not Picasso) allows photos to be anywhere. It searches for pictures automatically. There is no notion of a library. Any watched folder is input automatically. It really is quite good in this aspect. Downloaded some files onto the Desktop? No problem, appears in Picasa two seconds later. Downloaded new photos from camera into folder xyz? No problem, appears in Picasa two seconds later, provided xyz is a subfolder of a watched folder at least. You only have to specify which folders are watched. You can move folders and rename from within Picasa, but any changes made external are auto updated from within Picasa as well. This is the program's strongest selling point.

This is what annoys me about Picasa. I've been forced to use a PC cause I just moved overseas and I don't have a macbook yet.. (OMG the store just called to say they have one for me! Yahoo!) Uh.. Yeah anyway Picasa annoys me because it raids the HD looking for photos.
I saved a web-page to my documents, lo and behold Picasa imports every little gif and jpeg in the folder. Plus it imported all my uncle's photos too, I don't want them in my library, and I don't want mine in his.

Also the interface isn't too nice, it needs a lot of streamlining, the scroll bar is slow and strange to use, and the search feature is nice but you can't keep the searched item in view when the search is cancelled, it flips back to the library and I have to manually go find where the picture is..

Anyway, in short I miss iPhoto, though I do like the editing features in Picasa a lot and I haven't tried iLife '06 yet either, I'm not sold on Picasa yet. Knowing Google it will become something great however. I'll give it time.

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