Originally posted by pyr3 Horrible example. Word isn't an interface for you to view/organize all of your word processing documents. Word is just an editor. iPhoto is supposed to be a way for you to store/organize/touch up your photos. iPhoto is supposed to be an interface to your photos and you shouldn't worry about the stuff in the iPhoto library folder. iPhoto stores all of your photos in a folder that is organized in a way that's not supposed to be 'user readable' so to speak. The entire purpose of iPhoto is to keep your photos in a place and have an interface to them so that users don't have to worry about the back-end of things.
Agreed, but if you're *only* doing an en masse back up, you *DON'T* care where files are stored, do you? When you're backing up your mail, for example, you don't care about which mail message is stored where, you just want all your mail backed up. I don't see a Backup feature *inside* Mail, nor would I expect to.
I think this way leads to the Kitchen Sink Mentality... and Windows UI design.
This is what I meant by lack of solid definitions for what people meant by backing up... to me, and to most people, backing up is a mirroring of the current state of *everything*.
What I hear most people saying is "I want to move certain pictures aside for a while, but pull them back in later with preserved metadata". The term most often used for that is Archiving.
Yea, power users can just drag the folder to back it up, but how about less savvy users? Having a backup inside of iPhoto will provide a common interface for people to use. Hell, they could make it all AppleScriptable so that rather than using the built-in backup in iPhoto you can do all kinds of crazy stuff with the backup interface.
Again, clashing terminology. There's no reason to have a Backup feature in iPhoto, one in iTunes, one in iMovie, one in iDVD... when you can have a dedicated tool that only needs to know only a little bit about the file structure of each app. Think plugins into a backup tool.
Archiving is another issue, and one that I agree needs to be addressed, and *has* to be done from within iPhoto.
But the other problem arises when the iPhoto library directory is larger than a DVD or CD. What if it's larger than 700MB and the user only has a CD burner? What if it's larger than 4489MB and the user only has a single-layer DVD burner?
Again, a backup tool will have that capability built-in. No need to reinvent the wheel when existing solutions are out there.
Picasa has a backup feature. Not only that, it keeps track of what photos have already been burned to a backup disc. So you could create multiple-disc backups. This to me is a useful feature.
Ah, see, that's archiving. And it *is* a useful feature.
Even if the meta-data isn't saved at least you have the files backed up somewhere in case of a hard drive failure, laptop theft, etc.
Er, if you're not concerned about metadata, here's an iPhoto route to the same thing, more or less:
Export pictures to disc.
Tag pictures as exported.
Not as smooth, definitely, but I think it provides the backbone for the same functionality. Perhaps a quick Applescript over the top?
I think that the multiple -disc backup is the most solid feature that a built-in iPhoto backup util would have going for it. Another solid feature would be the ability to sync the iPhoto library with another location, perhaps an external drive / network share.
Expect to see that in iLife '06, with the current push for syncing through .Mac. Also expect to see it remain a .Mac only feature, darn it.
There need not be a consensus. There could be a backup feature that allows the user to select the type of backup that they want.
"Backup of Final Revisions"
Aaaaaaaand that would be consensus of terminology of what backing up means in various contexts. I wasn't saying "THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE TYPE OF BACKUP" but that in *THIS* thread, people were using the term for *many* styles of backing up, and that there needed to be a consensus on what the hell people meant by the various styles, and a better lexicon of phrasing. So we could discuss the actual issues instead of arguing about what 'backing up' meant.
How about we agree on the following:
Backing up: en masse, all files, all revisions, perfect snapshot of the entire archive, all edit chains, etc. Restoring from a back-up involves wholesale replacing of the current iPhoto library. All metadata preserved.
Archiving: Specific photos, would be 'forgotten' from current library, you want to be able to re-*integrate* them into the existing library as needed. Metadata preserved, edit-chain optional.
Exporting: Specific photos, just makes a copy of the current state of edits, does not alter current library, all metadata lost.
Then the discussion can be focussed on the need for, and requirements of, Archiving, since Exporting is currently handled inside iPhoto, and Backups are best handled by a dedicated tool outside the organization framework.