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Intel Yonah Performance Preview - Page 2

post #41 of 55
Quote:
Originally posted by dutch pear
I just cam across this article on Tomshardware:
http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20051203/index.html
Pretty impressive roadmap and developments at intel.
Plans are underway for 45 nm processors and up to 8-core cpu's.

Go intel!

That site says that only the dual core Yonah will be available in early 2006. Does that mean that whatever Apple gives us at Macworld (intel wise) will use this chip?
And yes, a PC can be had cheaper but I want a MAC!
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And yes, a PC can be had cheaper but I want a MAC!
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post #42 of 55
Quote:
Originally posted by anand
That site says that only the dual core Yonah will be available in early 2006. Does that mean that whatever Apple gives us at Macworld (intel wise) will use this chip?

Looks like that... According to the list, we'll have:
early 2006 Yonah mobile dual-core --- PowerBooks/mid-range Mac?
mid 2006 Yonah mobile single-core --- Mac mini, iBooks
mid 2006? Woodcrest enterprise dual-core --- PowerMacs? (seems early to me)
end 2006 Merom mobile dual-core --- PowerBooks
end 2006 Conroe desktop dual-core --- iMacs/mid-range Mac?
early 2007 Merom mobile single-core --- Mac mini, iBooks
mid 2007 Clovertown enterprise quad-core --- PowerMacs/Xserve
post #43 of 55
Quote:
Originally posted by mjteix
Looks like that... According to the list, we'll have:
early 2006 Yonah mobile dual-core --- PowerBooks/mid-range Mac?
mid 2006 Yonah mobile single-core --- Mac mini, iBooks
mid 2006? Woodcrest enterprise dual-core --- PowerMacs? (seems early to me)
end 2006 Merom mobile dual-core --- PowerBooks
end 2006 Conroe desktop dual-core --- iMacs/mid-range Mac?
early 2007 Merom mobile single-core --- Mac mini, iBooks
mid 2007 Clovertown enterprise quad-core --- PowerMacs/Xserve

I could see lack of native pro apps holding the PowerBook till later, while the iBook and Mini would do well with Intel inside. Both not pro app machines. Maybe the PowerBook but why if the apps are not there. Are the apps there? I think the hurd is talking about an iBook and a Mini. As supporting evidence of the Mini prediction I give you http://www.thinksecret.com/ It appears that the buzz is about the Mini, so an Intel Mini and FrontRow 2 could be a good combination and then an iBook.
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post #44 of 55
Hold your intel horses.....

This is an interesting analysis - almost worthy of a new thread...

ZDNet Blog

The question is whether Apple can afford to make the Intel transition this early. It's worth a read.

Carni
post #45 of 55
Quote:
Originally posted by Carniphage
Hold your intel horses.....

This is an interesting analysis - almost worthy of a new thread...

ZDNet Blog

The question is whether Apple can afford to make the Intel transition this early. It's worth a read.

Carni

He says that others are paying $240 for a 2 year old Pentiium M.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...m+M+Processors

How about that price bracket for individual processors for a new Dothan.

I would guess that the rest is FUD.
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post #46 of 55
I was wondering how he came with the figures...

( Presumably he has a convenient orifice which he can pull em out of)

Does anyone know if there is a significant cost difference in manufacturing cost between Power ISA and x86 hardwares?

Carni
post #47 of 55
Quote:
Originally posted by Carniphage
...
Does anyone know if there is a significant cost difference in manufacturing cost between Power ISA and x86 hardwares?Carni

I doubt any significant differences exist due to ISA. I believe it ultimately boils down to die size and yields, no matter what ISA architecture.
just waiting to be included in one of Apple's target markets.
Don't get me wrong, I like the flat panel iMac, actually own an iMac, and I like the Mac mini, but...........
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just waiting to be included in one of Apple's target markets.
Don't get me wrong, I like the flat panel iMac, actually own an iMac, and I like the Mac mini, but...........
Reply
post #48 of 55
I think many of you are missing one point, which is how pervasive multi core systems will become. Frankly I don't see single core systems as even being marketable after 2007. I could see Apple trying to get on this trend early and moving as many machines as possible to multicore including the mini and iBooks.

That doesn't mean top of the line performance just dual core systems running fairly fast. For things like the iBook this provides for all sorts of power management features and good performance at very low clock rates. Read this to mean great battery life.

On the other hand things like the Mini may go with integrated video for low costs. Such systems are likely to far out perform todays low end mac hardware so it shouldn't be a big issue.

So to wrap it up don't expect to see single core intel hardware with an Apple name plate for extended periods of time. Apple is currently in a very good position to exploit a multi core chip - I think they will do that across the board for the most part.

Dave




Quote:
Originally posted by mjteix
Looks like that... According to the list, we'll have:
early 2006 Yonah mobile dual-core ---� PowerBooks/mid-range Mac?
mid 2006 Yonah mobile single-core ---� Mac mini, iBooks
mid 2006? Woodcrest enterprise dual-core ---� PowerMacs? (seems early to me)
end 2006 Merom mobile dual-core ---� PowerBooks
end 2006 Conroe desktop dual-core ---� iMacs/mid-range Mac?
early 2007 Merom mobile single-core ---� Mac mini, iBooks
mid 2007 Clovertown enterprise quad-core ---� PowerMacs/Xserve
post #49 of 55
Quote:
Originally posted by rickag
I doubt any significant differences exist due to ISA. I believe it ultimately boils down to die size and yields, no matter what ISA architecture.

Yup. Die size, yields, and capacity. Don't forget capacity. Intel is the leading manufacturer in 300 mm diameter wafer fabs as well. That's double the capacity per wafer compared to the 200 mm wafers dominant in the semiconductor industry.

Last I heard, Intel manufactures its chips for an average cost of about $30/chip for CPUs and probably <$10 for the support chipsets (northbridges, southbridges, etc.) Likely much cheaper than PPC 970fx and 744x chips because they sell an order of magnitude more chips. What they charge for those chips is largely dependent on the negotiating skills of the buyer.

The ZDNet blogger is quite the idiot. I mean "Woodrow?" Intel has confusing code names, yes, but come on. He's trotting out the same old misinformation all over the net and creating some new ones to boot.

The low power 970fx chips won't make fantastic laptop chips because they are limited to 1.6, maybe 1.8, GHz. Yonah will be dual-core and 2+ GHz.

The 8641D won't make a fantastic laptop chip because it won't ship in Summer 06 and will be limited to 1.8 GHz or so for laptops. Merom will ship late Summer 06 at 2+ GHz.

This statement, "Unfortunately, "Yonah", even in its first 32bit incarnation, isn't ready and its full implementation successors, "Woodrow" and "Merom", keep getting further and further behind schedule" is pure FUD. Yonah is purely a 32 bit chip, and looks to be very on schedule for a January delivery date. Merom chips haven't fallen behind schedule whatsoever.

So, the only interesting point he makes is that he thinks Apple won't get volume discounts from Intel, or that they can't manufacture an equivalent or better Mac/Intel than a Mac/PPC which is just laughable. They can, but it's going to cost more than x86 commodity box makers. Apple's got style to charge for.
post #50 of 55
Quote:
Originally posted by Carniphage
I was wondering how he came with the figures...

( Presumably he has a convenient orifice which he can pull em out of)

Carni

We might also be able to look at the average cost with Intel because they lower costs frequently. So at the beginning a chip may cost $200 each, but the average cost of that chip may be below $150 a year after introduction. Those are WAGs on the pricing, but I do know that they lower costs kind of quickly. And Intel offers discounts for helping them get new technology into the market Good for Apple.
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post #51 of 55
Quote:
Originally posted by Brendon
I could see lack of native pro apps holding the PowerBook till later, while the iBook and Mini would do well with Intel inside. Both not pro app machines. Maybe the PowerBook but why if the apps are not there. Are the apps there? I think the hurd is talking about an iBook and a Mini. As supporting evidence of the Mini prediction I give you http://www.thinksecret.com/ It appears that the buzz is about the Mini, so an Intel Mini and FrontRow 2 could be a good combination and then an iBook.

Repeat after me, "powerbooks are slow".
Putting a _dual core_ yonah in a Powerbook will not affect its performance on pro apps. It remains to be seen if they will be faster in emulation, but you can bet that all of Apple's apps are going to roll out in intel version pretty quickly.
Putting a Yonah in a powerbook will only be good ( well, except for the software that doesnt work at all ).

I also think the iMac will go intel. It is faster than the powerbook, but doesnt have the same pro cachet, so they will get away with photoshop being a bit slower.

Intel is too expensive for the mini, look for a celeron in there, with integrated graphics, and probably the same for the ibook, although they might up it a bit and use a pentium m.
post #52 of 55
Why are people assuming that Intel Yonah's is too expensive for the mini.

I don't think anyone has given any proof to how much Apple is paying for 1.5Ghz G4s. I doubt that they are much cheaper than $120 and I think Apple should be able to get themselves into a Yonah for $150.

I'm not buying a Celeron mini. Period.
He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
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He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
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post #53 of 55
Quote:
Originally posted by mmmpie
Repeat after me, "powerbooks are slow".

powerbooks are slow
post #54 of 55
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
Why are people assuming that Intel Yonah's is too expensive for the mini.

I don't think anyone has given any proof to how much Apple is paying for 1.5Ghz G4s. I doubt that they are much cheaper than $120 and I think Apple should be able to get themselves into a Yonah for $150.

I'm not buying a Celeron mini. Period.

Agreed, a yonah is possible, I think due to possible savings from MB design and no need for the Apple chip. The cost of development on PPC and on Intel are worlds apart. IBM support chips are expensive, so Apple made the Apple-chip. On Intel the support chips are right there on the shelf thus saving Apple much development time, Intel may even help with MB design. Maybe the internal design work is done just waiting for an Apple package. It could be easy to drop a yonah in there.

Remember the iPod original? Intels version of the mini.
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post #55 of 55
January 6 has been confirmed to be the Yonah launch date.

http://www.cooltechzone.com/index.ph...k=view&id=2064
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