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post #81 of 244
Quote:
Originally posted by Moe_in_Texas
The enemy is evil, persistent and resilient. We must use the tools we have to fight this enemy. The enemy is also living within our boundaries. The enemy is fund raising in our cities. We must monitor those fitting the profile of the enemy. We have no choice. The safety of the American people is at stake.

Sometimes I think Moe is just messing with us.
'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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post #82 of 244
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
Indeed, Moe. That was my favorite part in Revenge of the Sith.

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #83 of 244
Quote:
Originally posted by Moe_in_Texas
We are trying to survive as a people and as a culture.

!Kan g//we. O'lam /re'et lon.
post #84 of 244
What is the famous quote about freedom and security?

Since I don´t live in US I can see the funny side of this. A few years ago, when I told that we are given a social security number by the state from birth that we use in all our interactions with it, people didn´t understand how we could live with that, the possibility of matching registers for surveillance and all that. And from what I understand americans were against this by principles. Now you accept stuff no one here would accept from our "socialist" state.
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
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"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
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post #85 of 244
Sorry. I thought you were a member of the San people of western Botswana.

Anyway, I'm with you in your struggle to protect, er, your culture.
post #86 of 244
We are discussing this at Lonestartimes.

http://lonestartimes.com/2005/12/19/...eavesdropping/
Moe has left the building
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Moe has left the building
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post #87 of 244
Quote:
Originally posted by Moe_in_Texas
We are protecting our lives Anders.

Moe, please take a look at Jamac's post above.

It is literally tens of thousands of times more likely that you would be the victim of a robbery/murder than a terrorist attack.

Given that you live in "times like that", consistency would oblige you to support much more severe reductions in civl liberties, in order to combat this much larger threat to your well being.

Warrantless searches, random round-ups of the demographically suspect, giving the cops the absolute right to snatch you up or bust down your door or go through your mail-- all of those "tools" would undoubtedly decrease crime and make you safer.

So if "protecting our lives" means "doing whatever is necessary", then why have a bill of rights?

I'm saying that you want to use the Bill of Rights to wipe your ass. I'm saying that your ignorance and fear make you unfit to call yourself an American, or a conservative, or a patriot.

I'm saying you're shitting on the sacrifice of those vast legions of the dead who gave their lives to truly defend "freedom", even as you claim to champion their cause.

Absolutely disgusting. Get out of my country.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #88 of 244
Quote:
As President, I took an oath to defend the Constitution, and I have no greater responsibility than to protect our people, our freedom, and our way of life.

Someone should impeach him then.
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
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"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
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post #89 of 244
Well folks I knew he'd go too far at somepoint.

Want to lay bets as to how this will affect the next presidential election?

Unless Dubbya decides to declare martial law that is.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #90 of 244
The thing that really pisses me off is his constant mantra of "See, it's my job to protect the American people", implying that he, personally, is all that stands between us and obliteration. Is it any wonder that a man that thinks like that thinks he is above the law and that his power are limitless?

It's clear, isn't it? "Unless I am given a free hand to hunt down the evil-doers however, whenever and wherever I see fit, I won't be able to protect you." We can't protect ourselves, because we can't be allowed to know, exactly, what's going on. We just need to go about our business and trust that the Great Father is Ceaselessly Vigilant.

We've never had a president who so regarded himself as the personification of America, who so frequently uses "I" where he should use "we", who has such contempt for the rule of law and the norms of democracy.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #91 of 244
Quote:
Originally posted by Anders
Someone should impeach him then.

Especially since Cheney was the one who attacked us in the first place. We can't just let anyone fly drones into the Pentagon.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #92 of 244
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
Especially since Cheney was the one who attacked us in the first place. We can't just let anyone fly drones into the Pentagon.

What are you talking about?
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
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"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
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post #93 of 244
Quote:
Originally posted by Anders
What are you talking about?

DMZ is under the impression that a devastating response to any criticism of the Bush administration is to pretend that everyone is comparing Bush to Hitler and claiming he engineered 9/11 and is purely evil and responsible for every bad thing in the world, notions which he can handily refute (go figure).

We haven't had the heart to tell him that that makes him seem like a slightly deranged crank.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #94 of 244
Quote:
Originally posted by Anders
What are you talking about?

Sorry, wrong conspiracy, nevermind.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #95 of 244
Quote:
Originally posted by addabox
DMZ is under the impression that a devastating response to any criticism of the Bush administration is to pretend that everyone is comparing Bush to Hitler and claiming he engineered 9/11 and is purely evil and responsible for every bad thing in the world, notions which he can handily refute (go figure).
.

Ack! It's all so complicated!
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #96 of 244
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
Sorry, wrong conspiracy, nevermind.

None conspiracy nut here mate Remember I am only putting Bush up against his own words
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
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"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
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post #97 of 244
Oh, right, and that we're all positing a "conspiracy" and since it's possible to name a less than plausible conspiracy it makes criticism of the Bush administration less than plausible as well (I know, it's hard to follow, apparently there's something about a steady diet of Christian apologetics that erodes the powers of logic).
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #98 of 244
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
Ack! It's all so complicated!

Then stay out of the punch!

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #99 of 244
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
Then stay out of the punch!

Only if you'll forswear the Kool-Aid.....
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #100 of 244
Quote:
Originally posted by Moe_in_Texas
Name-calling and obscenities. My goodness.

Gee, some people are pissed. Wonder why.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #101 of 244
Quote:
Originally posted by Anders
None conspiracy nut here mate Remember I am only putting Bush up against his own words

I don't know, it sounds like W is coming to get addabox at any moment.

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!! the horror!!!!! W's got the AG in on the sneak as well!!! What a world!!! What a world!!!! ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!! Honey!? Where all out of 18th Amendment in the potty!! Hellllllp!! HEEELLLLP!!

I have to work now.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #102 of 244
Quote:
Originally posted by addabox
Only if you'll forswear the Kool-Aid.....

Ha! Where do you think those 'little voices' are coming from?

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #103 of 244
Whoops, sorry, missed another DMZ classic: if it's not silly hyperbole or a conspiracy theory, it's hysterical overreaction.

Next up: no one knows what's really happening, everyone is complicit, and it's not a political problem it's a moral problem.

Materialism.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
post #104 of 244
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
I don't know, it sounds like W is coming to get addabox at any moment.

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!! the horror!!!!! W's got the AJ in on the sneak as well!!! What a world!!! What a world!!!! ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!! Honey!? Where all out of 18th Amendment in the potty!! Hellllllp!! HEEELLLLP!!

I have to work now.

"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
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"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
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post #105 of 244
Quote:
Originally posted by jamac
Curiously a human being has only a 1 in about 60,000,000 chance to be killed in a terrorist act even with 9/11. You have a better chance of winning the lottery.
Our super brilliant president should be evesdropping on Ford engineers building cars that kill 265 in every 1,000,000 or Phillip Morris making products killing millions slowly and painfully.
We need protection from stupidity, nothing else.

Duhhh.

The idea is to put in place a series of procedures so that it does not get any worse. We don't want to end up like our friends in Israel.
Moe has left the building
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Moe has left the building
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post #106 of 244
Quote:
Originally posted by Moe_in_Texas
The idea is to put in place a series of procedures so that it does not get any worse. We don't want to end up like our friends in Israel.


Naw! We'll just end up like those characters in the novel " 1984 ".
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #107 of 244
In the 70s and 80s europe suffered from what we today would call terrorist attacks without taking away the civil rights of people.

I especially find the Baader-Meinhof story interesting. In their view the West-german state was fascist and the only reason why it didn´t appear to be so, was because it wasn´t pressured enough. In dire times it would transform itself into its real self and the civil rights of its citizens would be the first to go. Its all according to a special branch of the marxist tradition. The Baader-Meinhof group saw it as their task to unveil this true nature by challenging the state. When the true nature of the state was reveled the population would recognize this, oppose the state and the grounds for revolution would be laid.

But the state didn´t transform into this monster despite the backing of DDR, the killings and attacks of prominent politicians and business leaders and even one bombing of a mall. No national black ops or massive secret programs was put in place. The german state showed them wrong.

It seems tome that the current administration in US haven´t got the same spine.
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
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"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
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post #108 of 244
Moe,

The US government isn't only spying on some guy wearing a turban and robe who prays to ala six times a day, they are spying on your next door neighbor because he was having a conversation about the tactics terrorist use, they are spying on your grandmother because her dog's name is Sinbad, they are spying on your sister because she likes to fuck a dude named Muhammed. They are spying on everyone.
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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post #109 of 244
Quote:
Yesterday, the existence of this secret program was revealed in media reports after being improperly provided to news organizations. As a result, our enemies have learned information they should not have.

And the unauthorized disclosure of this effort damages our national security and puts our citizens at risk. Revealing classified information is illegal, alerts our enemies and endangers our country.

A new UCLA study to be released next weak, confirms the liberal leanings of the majority of the elite press. I'm gonna go out on a limb and bet that neither the leaker nor the leakee of the info about the US' MOST TOP SECRET PROGRAM was a big proponent of the Bush administration. I will go even further and say that both put left-wing politics ahead of National Security.

Way to endanger your neighbors and reveal national secrets to wartime enemies for a cheap political shot.

The left-wing scores a home run again!
post #110 of 244
Quote:
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
Moe,

The US government isn't only spying on some guy wearing a turban and robe who prays to ala six times a day, they are spying on your next door neighbor because he was having a conversation about the tactics terrorist use, they are spying on your grandmother because her dog's name is Sinbad, they are spying on your sister because she likes to fuck a dude named Muhammed. They are spying on everyone.

Not physically possible, my friend.

Put away the tinfoil.

post #111 of 244
Quote:
Originally posted by iSeeItNow
Not physically possible, my friend.

Put away the tinfoil.


Actually, voice recognition filter in the major digital switchboards of the nation. Perfectly physically possible.

But unless you are a total idiotic tool (and you probably are), you understood the fundamental reasoning of my post.
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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post #112 of 244
Quote:
Originally posted by Anders
In the 70s and 80s europe suffered from what we today would call terrorist attacks without taking away the civil rights of people.

So, I suppose we should just 'buck up' and take it, then?

Come on in, enjoy our infidel nudey bars, sleep with our infidel women, drink our infidel hooch, leave Islam at home, and when you're done, enjoy the fruits of jihad at any one of our well populated landmarks.

What happens in the land of the great Satan stays in the land of the great Satan.

Book your trip now.
post #113 of 244
Quote:
Originally posted by iSeeItNow
A new UCLA study to be released next weak, confirms the liberal leanings of the majority of the elite press. I'm gonna go out on a limb and bet that neither the leaker nor the leakee of the info about the US' MOST TOP SECRET PROGRAM was a big proponent of the Bush administration. I will go even further and say that both put left-wing politics ahead of National Security.

O-kay. That's what the blogs are saying.

Naples.
post #114 of 244
Quote:
Originally posted by iSeeItNow
A new UCLA study to be released next weak, confirms the liberal leanings of the majority of the elite press. I'm gonna go out on a limb and bet that neither the leaker nor the leakee of the info about the US' MOST TOP SECRET PROGRAM was a big proponent of the Bush administration. I will go even further and say that both put left-wing politics ahead of National Security.

Way to endanger your neighbors and reveal national secrets to wartime enemies for a cheap political shot.

The left-wing scores a home run again!

Um. What? MOST TOP SECRET PROGRAM?

Prove it.

I think the spying on US citizens is a significant breach of the social contract we all supposedly signed...

The government is supposed to follow the COnstitution to protect us from it. I has failed to do so. THis isn't politicing, these are rediculous infringments on our personal liberties.
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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post #115 of 244
Quote:
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
Um. What? MOST TOP SECRET PROGRAM?

Prove it.

I think the spying on US citizens is a significant breach of the social contract we all supposedly signed...

The government is supposed to follow the COnstitution to protect us from it. I has failed to do so. THis isn't politicing, these are rediculous infringments on our personal liberties.

NSA stands for what?

Which implies what?

This ends our tutorial on how to use your cerebral cortex. All further technical assistance will be fee based. However, if you would like to experience this step by step tutorial again, you can contact 1-800-UR-BRAIN to receive a full brochure and accompanying CD.



PS. I should have said 'what was the US' MOST TOP SECRET PROGRAM', as the label no longer applies, now does it?
post #116 of 244
Quote:
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
Moe,

The US government isn't only spying on some guy wearing a turban and robe who prays to ala six times a day, they are spying on your next door neighbor because he was having a conversation about the tactics terrorist use, they are spying on your grandmother because her dog's name is Sinbad, they are spying on your sister because she likes to fuck a dude named Muhammed. They are spying on everyone.


That's just the thing. It's pretty obvious ( transparent really ) that this isn't so much about terrorism as it is about control. Things with a large populace are so much easier for the leaders when they are controlled.

I've always said if you didn't like Bush last time the next term would be much worse because he doesn't have to worry about reelection.

This would be one of those things.

The gloves are off now and he can afford to be blatant with his agenda. He only has so much time to put in place stuff that will screw us up for years to come. That makes him very scary.

I'm very glad that the rest of government aren't swallowing this stuff as easy as they did Iraq and SH.
He looked pretty nervious during his news conference this morning. He dodged and didn't handle the tough questions well ( like the one about next years troop numbers in Iraq and he answered with stuff about Katrina victims ). I don't think he was expecting the uproar this will cause.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #117 of 244
Quote:
Originally posted by iSeeItNow
NSA stands for what?

Which implies what?

This ends our tutorial on how to use your cerebral cortex. All further technical assistance will be fee based. However, if you would like to experience this step by step tutorial again, you can contact 1-800-UR-BRAIN to receive a full brochure and accompanying CD.



PS. I should have said 'what was the US' MOST TOP SECRET PROGRAM', as the label no longer applies, now does it?


God! You do sound like Nappy!

Well the thing is America is for the people and by the people not the NSA. Put that in your cortex and smoke it.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #118 of 244
Quote:
Originally posted by iSeeItNow
So, I suppose we should just 'buck up' and take it, then?

Come on in, enjoy our infidel nudey bars, sleep with our infidel women, drink our infidel hooch, leave Islam at home, and when you're done, enjoy the fruits of jihad at any one of our well populated landmarks.

What happens in the land of the great Satan stays in the land of the great Satan.

Book your trip now.

When someone wants to take away these kinds of freedoms I see one of lucifer's deciples in the Whitehouse.

When you do stuff like this to protect america and all it stands for it ceases to be the thing you're trying to protect. So what's the point?


PS. Psst! Someone should have told Bush this stuff before he had business dealings with the Bin Laudin family.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #119 of 244
Quote:
Originally posted by iSeeItNow
NSA stands for what?

Which implies what?

This ends our tutorial on how to use your cerebral cortex. All further technical assistance will be fee based. However, if you would like to experience this step by step tutorial again, you can contact 1-800-UR-BRAIN to receive a full brochure and accompanying CD.



PS. I should have said 'what was the US' MOST TOP SECRET PROGRAM', as the label no longer applies, now does it?

You really have only proven that you don't understand what proof means.

Let me spell it out. You claim that this program was the MOST TOP SECRET PROGRAM the US had. I don't belive it. I think we have more top secret programs, and you sir cannot prove otherwise.
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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post #120 of 244
Quote:
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
You really have only proven that you don't understand what proof means.

Let me spell it out. You claim that this program was the MOST TOP SECRET PROGRAM the US had. I don't belive it. I think we have more top secret programs, and you sir cannot prove otherwise.

Your belief system was most likely established long ago. Parenting, life experiences, voting history, and whatnot. So, I doubt anything - and I quote - "a total idiotic tool (and you probably are)" would have to say would change that inbred system of yours.

Anyone who displays such accurate clairvoyance as you obviously have, probably already knows what I'll say next. Although I respect your rights to wield your inhuman powers, I have to say... It kinda creeps me out, dude.

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