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FUTURE HARDWARE 23 DAYS, and counting. - Page 2

post #41 of 133
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
...but usually we get a glimpse of the new OS before the big demo of it at WWDC. We did with Tiger...

We didn't with Tiger.

Tiger was introduced to developers at WWDC 2004, then previewed to the masses at MWSF 2005 before being released in April 2005. There was no mention of Tiger at MWSF 2004.
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post #42 of 133
Keynote:
I am thrilled today ... sold more iPods a day than there are bugs in MS Vista ... iTunes biggest online music store (pie charts all over the wall) ... Last year shuffle. About time to replace it. Brand new shuffle 1GB ... ... Zillion videos sold. Year of home entertainment Honoured to welcome to the stage some CEO of some network announcing a new big deal for content for iTunes. ... Macs. Weve got some new macs for you. The first Intel based Macintosh. The new iBook Did I mention that they come in black and white? . New PowerBooks . Build in iSight ... Both iBook and PowerBook come with ilife 06 which includes Front Row 2.0. iLife 06 includes 5 brand new themes for iPhoto books (etc etc etc. ) Airport Lounge: wireless audio and video streaming to TV / Stereo. It plugs right into your wall and is ready to go. So we got new shuffles and new Intel iBooks shipping today and new PowerBooks shipping by the end of the month. iLife 06 will be on the shelves next week.
Oh yeah there is one more thing New Mac mini with intel processors, TV tuning full support for Airport Lounge and is shipping today. Thank you very much.

Some notes: I think that if new Intel iBooks are introduced PowerBooks have to follow soon if not right away since the iBooks would easily have a faster processor than the PowerBooks which would be odd.
post #43 of 133
Quote:
Originally posted by PeterT
Keynote:
I am thrilled today ... sold more iPods a day than there are bugs in MS Vista ... iTunes biggest online music store (pie charts all over the wall) ... Last year shuffle. About time to replace it. Brand new shuffle 1GB ... ... Zillion videos sold. Year of home entertainment Honoured to welcome to the stage some CEO of some network announcing a new big deal for content for iTunes. ... Macs. Weve got some new macs for you. The first Intel based Macintosh. The new iBook Did I mention that they come in black and white? . New PowerBooks . Build in iSight ... Both iBook and PowerBook come with ilife 06 which includes Front Row 2.0. iLife 06 includes 5 brand new themes for iPhoto books (etc etc etc. ) Airport Lounge: wireless audio and video streaming to TV / Stereo. It plugs right into your wall and is ready to go. So we got new shuffles and new Intel iBooks shipping today and new PowerBooks shipping by the end of the month. iLife 06 will be on the shelves next week.
Oh yeah there is one more thing New Mac mini with intel processors, TV tuning full support for Airport Lounge and is shipping today. Thank you very much.

Some notes: I think that if new Intel iBooks are introduced PowerBooks have to follow soon if not right away since the iBooks would easily have a faster processor than the PowerBooks which would be odd.

If all that happened that'd be sick!
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post #44 of 133
Quote:
The dual-core version of Yonah , which sources say will be marketed as "Centrino Duo," will be available in a low-voltage version at speeds of 1.5GHz, 1.66GHz, and 1.83GHz, while a faster "performance" version will ship at speeds of 1.66GHz, 1.83GHz, 2.0GHz, and 2.16GHz. Bus speeds and L2 cache are expected to remain the same between the variants, at 667MHz and 2MB, respectively. Sources cautioned that not all speeds might be announced concurrently, and that the performance version of the dual-core Yonah might not be announced until later in the quarter.

With this information what speeds will go where? I think that overall Apple needs to show a decent speed boost to all the computers that go Intel, similar to those that happened with the move to the G5 for the PM. Possible scenerio:
conservative
  • PowerBook 1.67 > 1.83
  • PowerBook 1.5 > 1.66
  • iBook 1.42 > 1.66
  • iBook 1.33 > 1.5
  • MacMini 1.42 (1.5) > 1.66
  • MacMini 1.25 (1.33) > 1.5
optamistic
  • PowerBook 1.67 > 2.16 (Performance)
  • PowerBook 1.67 > 2.0 (Performance
  • PowerBook 1.5 > 1.83 (Performance)
  • iBook 1.42 > 1.83
  • iBook 1.33 > 1.66
  • MacMini 1.42 (1.5) > 1.83 (Performance)
  • MacMini 1.25 (1.33) > 1.66 (Performance)
The second still leaves some head room for the iMac which could go to dual core G5's. The first is a little weak, but then these are dual core chips so even at the lower speed jump performance should see a good improvement. Either way I'm more interested in this release than I have been in one for quite some time, especially the MacMini.
post #45 of 133
Oh man are you guys going to be disappointed when those first Intel macs are announced in june when they're supposed to be
post #46 of 133
Quote:
Originally posted by akheron01
Oh man are you guys going to be disappointed when those first Intel macs are announced in june when they're supposed to be

Depends what people value more...disappointement or surprise. If people don't care being disappointed, sticking with the thought of a January release is fine. If people care about a good surprise, it's good to think they won't be out before June.

A minor correction though...they're not *supposed* to be released in June. They're supposed to be released *between now and June*. That was the gist of what we heard this summer.
post #47 of 133
Quote:
Originally posted by kim kap sol
Depends what people value more...disappointement or surprise. If people don't care being disappointed, sticking with the thought of a January release is fine. If people care about a good surprise, it's good to think they won't be out before June.

A minor correction though...they're not *supposed* to be released in June. They're supposed to be released *between now and June*. That was the gist of what we heard this summer.

Ah yes, I had forgotten that, thanks for pointing that out. I just am hearing so many people talk about intel macs coming out in January as if it's a sure thing. I'd feel bad for those people if it didn't actually happen.
post #48 of 133
Quote:
Originally posted by Chucker
Trackball. Right. Uh-huh.

Don't knock it until you've tried it. The latest optical ones are good.

OK, trackpad if you prefer. If I'm sitting in the living room, I don't want to have to find a flat surface to slide a mouse around on. (And I don't care for the little red joystick that Thinkpads used to have.)
post #49 of 133
Just to put it out there --

Jobs said this will be a 2 year transition, but that means the entire thing from start to end. So, all intel macs should be out by WWDC, and then its just converting people from PowerPC to Intel after that.

And seeing as the OS transition is over, do you think Leopard will have officialy killed Classic?
post #50 of 133
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by icfireball
Just to put it out there --

Jobs said this will be a 2 year transition, but that means the entire thing from start to end. So, all intel macs should be out by WWDC, and then its just converting people from PowerPC to Intel after that.

And seeing as the OS transition is over, do you think Leopard will have officialy killed Classic?

Yes classic will officially be gone. (I hope)

2 year transition gives them until the end of 2007 to have everything out AFAIAC, but If they were late with some of them it wouldn't really matter. I think they will get them all out when intel has all the processors they need. Simple as that.
But I think It will be sooner than december 2007 that all the Macs are running on intel.
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post #51 of 133
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
Yes classic will officially be gone. (I hope)

But then how the heck am I supposed to play Oregon Trail?!?
(Which runs flawlessly on my Powerbook running 10.4 in classic mode )
post #52 of 133
Quote:
Originally posted by akheron01
But then how the heck am I supposed to play Oregon Trail?!?
(Which runs flawlessly on my Powerbook running 10.4 in classic mode )

Keep the Powerbook, just for that
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post #53 of 133
A new subnotebook with 10 hour battery life for those on the go. Fold it closed and slide it in your inside jacket pocket.
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post #54 of 133
Quote:
Originally posted by aplnub
A new subnotebook with 10 hour battery life for those on the go. Fold it closed and slide it in your inside jacket pocket.

I hate subnote books and the idea of them. Where and when are you that you need something that small? What kind of tasks would you need that for? Checking email? Get a pda. I just don't see the need for something like that, that is so annoying to use. 12 inches is too big?
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post #55 of 133
Quote:
Originally posted by ecking
I hate subnote books and the idea of them. Where and when are you that you need something that small? What kind of tasks would you need that for? Checking email? Get a pda. I just don't see the need for something like that, that is so annoying to use. 12 inches is too big?

Travel task. I want a full keyboard to type my mail. I want to use Tiger instead of some half-wit pocket pc O/S on a PDA. I have a HP iPaq 5555. Wireless everything, and it sucks to use for email while traveling.

Scheduling rail passes, plane reservations, and having full copies of my important doc's on hand in a encrypted disk image are important. Oh yeah, being able to open Excel documents, write letters in Word, and do invoices/quotes, and calculations away from my office to email back would be nice to make sure my company stays running. Using FUGU, thank God for those who created that program, to gain access to my home iMac is a must. PDA's just don't cut it for that stuff. Ease up on your subnotebook outlook and realize that some of us need it.

I would settle for a 1 GHz processor (or less), 40 Gb hard drive with 1 GB of ram being optional. Ethernet, wireless network card, one firewire and one usb 2.0 port are a must. Beyond that, it is just extra's.

Is 12" too big? Yes, , for hardcore travelers or business guys on the go in the field, it is too big and to heavy.
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post #56 of 133
Quote:
Originally posted by ecking
I hate subnote books and the idea of them. Where and when are you that you need something that small? What kind of tasks would you need that for? Checking email? Get a pda. I just don't see the need for something like that, that is so annoying to use. 12 inches is too big?

Subnotebooks have historically been big sellers in Japan and there is a market, small as it is, in the US and abroad that wants a computer that is as small and light weight as possible for travel. They are typically willing to sacrofice internal removable media for size and weight, relying on Docs and external drives. I believe that these are typically more expensive (aka. higher profit margin) than a like powered standard laptop.
post #57 of 133
Japanese people are smaller on average than Americans however. Really small notebooks don't fly with large people with large fingers.
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post #58 of 133
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
Japanese people are smaller on average than Americans however. Really small notebooks don't fly with large people with large fingers.

Thank you for the compliment but have you seen the average computer dork lately (myself included)? We are not exactly WWE material here.
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post #59 of 133
I think this is what might happen with the laptops:

They will get rid of the 12inch ibook/powerbook and 14 inch ibook and replace them with

if they did have a 13.3 inch ibook I dont see any reason to keep a 14 inch one?

13.3 inch standard laptop(1.6 ghz) and maybe a 12 inch new ultra-slim version(1.6 ghz low voltage?)

Then have a 15 inch and 17 inch dual core 2ghz?
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post #60 of 133
Dell announced those laptops :
Precision M90, le Lattitude D620 et D820.

PWS M90 - Intel Core T1300 (1.66GHz/2MB L2 cache/667MHz FSB)
PWS M90 - Intel Core T1400 (1.83GHz/2MB L2 cache/667MHz FSB)
PWS M90 - Intel Core T1500 (2.00GHz/2MB L2 cache/667MHz FSB)
PWS M90 - Intel Core T1600 (2.16GHz/2MB L2 cache/667MHz FSB)

So if there is no powerbook 2,16, Apple won't be the best.
And Powerbook and iBook have to be out soon because those Dell laptops will be out in february... So...


Quote:
Originally posted by @homenow
With this information what speeds will go where? I think that overall Apple needs to show a decent speed boost to all the computers that go Intel, similar to those that happened with the move to the G5 for the PM. Possible scenerio:
conservative
  • PowerBook 1.67 > 1.83
  • PowerBook 1.5 > 1.66
  • iBook 1.42 > 1.66
  • iBook 1.33 > 1.5
  • MacMini 1.42 (1.5) > 1.66
  • MacMini 1.25 (1.33) > 1.5
optamistic
  • PowerBook 1.67 > 2.16 (Performance)
  • PowerBook 1.67 > 2.0 (Performance
  • PowerBook 1.5 > 1.83 (Performance)
  • iBook 1.42 > 1.83
  • iBook 1.33 > 1.66
  • MacMini 1.42 (1.5) > 1.83 (Performance)
  • MacMini 1.25 (1.33) > 1.66 (Performance)
The second still leaves some head room for the iMac which could go to dual core G5's. The first is a little weak, but then these are dual core chips so even at the lower speed jump performance should see a good improvement. Either way I'm more interested in this release than I have been in one for quite some time, especially the MacMini.
post #61 of 133
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
Japanese people are smaller on average than Americans however. Really small notebooks don't fly with large people with large fingers.

I used to date a female sumo wrestler. She had a small notebook, studio apartment, and drove a compact car too. Somewhat of an enigma.
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post #62 of 133
Quote:
Originally posted by tadunne
I think this is what might happen with the laptops:

They will get rid of the 12inch ibook/powerbook and 14 inch ibook and replace them with

if they did have a 13.3 inch ibook I dont see any reason to keep a 14 inch one?

13.3 inch standard laptop(1.6 ghz) and maybe a 12 inch new ultra-slim version(1.6 ghz low voltage?)

Then have a 15 inch and 17 inch dual core 2ghz?

13.3" widescreen is about the same size as 12" non-widescreen, so the 13.3" widescreen notebook is probably a replacement for the 12" of the past.
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post #63 of 133
Quote:
Originally posted by hxc04
I can't wait to see what Apple is going to come out with. I am looking forward to maybe selling the iBook and get a new Mactel, but who knows.

Awesome!
post #64 of 133
Quote:
Originally posted by keikojaa
Dell announced those laptops :
Precision M90, le Lattitude D620 et D820.

PWS M90 - Intel Core T1300 (1.66GHz/2MB L2 cache/667MHz FSB)
PWS M90 - Intel Core T1400 (1.83GHz/2MB L2 cache/667MHz FSB)
PWS M90 - Intel Core T1500 (2.00GHz/2MB L2 cache/667MHz FSB)
PWS M90 - Intel Core T1600 (2.16GHz/2MB L2 cache/667MHz FSB)

So if there is no powerbook 2,16, Apple won't be the best.
And Powerbook and iBook have to be out soon because those Dell laptops will be out in february... So...

Can you provide a link to Dell's announcement? Or is this just repeating The InQuirer's rumor?
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post #65 of 133
Thread Starter 
19 days til MWSF. It's getting closer. I can feel the excitement, and anticipation.
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post #66 of 133
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
19 days til MWSF. It's getting closer. I can feel the excitement, and anticipation.

18 days 14 hours 56 minutes 34 seconds

but who is counting?

post #67 of 133
Quote:
Originally posted by DHagan4755
Apple cannot introduce an Intel iBook without at least introducing one Intel PowerBook. Intel iBooks only will tank PowerBook sales. Unless, of course, iBooks have shared graphics and some really medicore features.

I don't think this will be the case. Pros and other power users will probably hold off, because there are features they know they'll want that likely won't be in an iBook (such as display spanning, cutting-edge graphics, or Firewire 800).

And of course, if the software isn't there for pros to run, they won't have any reason to buy Intel in the first place.
post #68 of 133
Quote:
Originally posted by Commodus
I don't think this will be the case. Pros and other power users will probably hold off, because there are features they know they'll want that likely won't be in an iBook (such as display spanning, cutting-edge graphics, or Firewire 800).

And of course, if the software isn't there for pros to run, they won't have any reason to buy Intel in the first place.

I would have to agree. Apple is going to have to "take the leap" sometime. I would seriously doubt that they will release all their products at once on the new platform, and they have basically said that they will not do this. Therefore some PowerPC products will have to lag behind in the transition and there is every possibility that those will lag behind in performance as well. If Apple plans for this then there won't be too much of a problem.

For example, the iBook release in January and PowerBook release in August. Apple knows that PB sales are going to plunge, but will need to keep some on hand so they produce a bit more now, wharehouse them, and stop production. As long as they can keep enough in stock for diminished demand through the WWDC they are in good shape, they anounce the new PB's shipping in August and ramp up production of the new model.

The same problem could exist for the iMac/Mac Mini. If the mini get's Dual core chis will Apple anounce Dual Core G5 iMacs or transition to Intel at the same time, or wait a month and anounce new models, keeping their name and products in the press longer (free exposure).

I think that we may well see monthly anouncements of new products from January through WWDC.
post #69 of 133
MWSF- Intel imac and mini with intel viiv

WWDC - Powerbooks and developers preview of Leopard

Macworld Paris - imac with merom

Thanksgiving - Leopard ships

January MWSF '07 Powermacs


18 days 1 hour 58 minutes 33 seconds...
post #70 of 133
Quote:
Originally posted by TednDi
January MWSF '07 Powermacs

I am almost positive PowerMacs will come sooner; April with new/updated Pro Software or WWDC. Also MWSF does not usualy play host to new pro products. And I think Apple will have all of their Intel Macs out before 2007.
post #71 of 133
Quote:
Originally posted by ecking
I hate subnote books and the idea of them. Where and when are you that you need something that small? What kind of tasks would you need that for? Checking email? Get a pda. I just don't see the need for something like that, that is so annoying to use. 12 inches is too big?

Just because you don't like something is no reason to get snippy at others. Has it occurred to you that maybe other people are often on the go but still need the power of a laptop? Are you going to use Office on a PDA? Do you really like reading full-size webpages on a 320x320 screen? Not all subnotebooks have smaller than normal keyboards and small screens. Those of us who are constantly moving around wouldn't mind something that's not a 5 pound brick, not when things like Lifebooks and Vaios weigh 40% less. Maybe making a subnotebook model available for road warriors might help Apple grow its market share. Shocking but true! I wouldn't want a 17" PB given its size and heft, but I don't begrudge the people who do want to buy them. Different strokes for different folks. Stop being so closed-minded. Or as Steve would say, "Think different!"
post #72 of 133
Quote:
Originally posted by icfireball
I am almost positive PowerMacs will come sooner; April with new/updated Pro Software or WWDC. Also MWSF does not usualy play host to new pro products. And I think Apple will have all of their Intel Macs out before 2007.


I thought about that before my prediction. iI originally wanted to predict NAB show for the powermacs but I thought that the pro- apps or merom might not be up and ready. Also, I figure that Leopard will be required to really kick the powermac into hyperspace.

Finally, my predictions factor into account a steady stream of gee wow publicity that must be factored into Apple's release strategy.
post #73 of 133
Quote:
Originally posted by Kolchak
Just because you don't like something is no reason to get snippy at others. Has it occurred to you that maybe other people are often on the go but still need the power of a laptop? Are you going to use Office on a PDA? Do you really like reading full-size webpages on a 320x320 screen? Not all subnotebooks have smaller than normal keyboards and small screens. Those of us who are constantly moving around wouldn't mind something that's not a 5 pound brick, not when things like Lifebooks and Vaios weigh 40% less. Maybe making a subnotebook model available for road warriors might help Apple grow its market share. Shocking but true! I wouldn't want a 17" PB given its size and heft, but I don't begrudge the people who do want to buy them. Different strokes for different folks. Stop being so closed-minded. Or as Steve would say, "Think different!"

think different to you too... is it a problem if apple has to charge you a hefty $ 2,200 for such a thing? it's reasonable pricing for a mildly crippled subnotebook... everything has it's price.
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post #74 of 133
I agree on the subnotebook idea.

I have a little 700 mhz vaio running windows which I use when traveling. I use it to check e-mail and web surf as well as to download my pics.

If I can't get a subnotebook then perhaps that ever mythical pda.
post #75 of 133
Whenever the first Intel Macs come out, it surely is going to be interesting to see how Apple will work when using the Intel processors.

Currently Macs are updated roughly every 6, 9, 12 months depending upon model. This is fine if you are the sole user of a processor which Apple pretty much were with the G4 and G5. Freescale or IBM could have brought out an improved processor a month or so after Apple updated models and no worries, Apple not really competing with any one, can hold off using that improved CPU until a mac is due an update. But I think moving over to Intel means that Apple are now really competing with PC manufacturers. Buyers will compare Apple and PC specs as they are now more easily comparable. I think that because macs are well engineered and probably have a few more features than your average PC, they will be at a slight premium.

But Apple will need to keep their machines in line with what Intel are up to. If Intel introduce new CPU models, Apple need to use those models ASAP. If Intel reduce CPU prices, Apple need reduce prices. Apple can no longer follow the mac upgrade cycles that we're used to. It will make them uncompetitive.

Last June Steve said we'll see Intel Macs by 2006's developer conference. Anybody who uses a well put together Pentium M based laptop knows that the G4 macs are slow. Today you can buy a Pentium M based laptop that costs less than a 12" iBook that will outperform a top of the range PowerBook. Rosetta, from what we've heard, runs PPC code with a 20% performance hit. And from what we've read on the web about Yonah, it should easily run PPC code faster than the fastest G4 based Mac available today. If Apple have got Rosetta stable there is no reason why all G4 based Macs should not be replaced in January. Apple also no doubt know the status of where all the major software developers are with their move to Intel and how those Apps in their PPC guise work on Intel based Macs. No doubt all of Apple's apps are good to go in Intel format as Apple have been telling developers to code in a certain way for years. And it would be stupid if Apple themselves didn't follow those rules. And if you follow those rules, a simple recompile for Intel should be all you need to do.

There is also a rumour that the iMac might go Intel in January. Again this is possible. Looking at benchmarks, Yonah beats Intel's own Pentium-D in numerous tests. And a single core G5 is again a pretty poor processor when compared to the latest Intel and AMD desktop CPUs. If Yonah is more powerful than a G5 iMac in most situations and being a mobile processor it's going to be almost silent, there is no reason why the rumoured iMac update might not be true. I don't think the iMac will always use a mobile chip. I think that when Intel get their desktop CPU's cooler, we'll see them in the iMac.

But going to Intel will sure make things different to what we're used to and it's going to make things exciting. But Apple need to differentiate Macs from PC's by more than OS/X and sexy design if they want to increase their market share.
post #76 of 133
Quote:
Originally posted by gar
think different to you too... is it a problem if apple has to charge you a hefty $ 2,200 for such a thing? it's reasonable pricing for a mildly crippled subnotebook... everything has it's price.

And if the price isn't a problem to me, what's it to you? As long as people want it, it doesn't hurt you in the least. If people find it too expensive, there's always the iBook. Choice is a good thing. Right now, we don't have that choice.

Besides, I don't think Apple would charge that much.
post #77 of 133
Thread Starter 
2007! I thought all Macs would be running on intel before the end of 2006?

PowerMacs at, or before WWDC '06' was the impression I got.
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post #78 of 133
Based entirely on the fact that my company's laptop replacement policy says "new laptop every two years" and my PowerBook is 2 years old this week - I'm predicting that the first Mac to get an intel processor will be the PowerBook

Of course, I actually think this makes the most sense since it's the one that's most desparate for an upgrade.

What then follows in my speculation is interesting - If they release Intel PowerBooks, then I predict they'll release Intel versions of at least one pro-app - probably Final Cut since this is a common use for a PowerBook.

We may also see Intel iBooks, and because I'm about to move into a new house which has a home theater, I strongly predict that a mac mini with full media center functionality (Front Row 2.0), TV tuner and DBS compatibility with the ability to decode 1080i video streams will be available too (See reasoning for PowerBook above).

Or to put it another way - Just gimme what I want now, and if you don't Steve, I'll go and pout in the corner until you do

More seriously, it makes a lot of business sense to release new Intel Macs now rather than in six months - why tell you customers when to stop buying PPC macs? Steve's not dumb - annouce that the transition starts in June, then deliver early. If you have problems, you can still deliver "on time" and not have another "Where's the 3GHz G5?" problem.
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post #79 of 133
Quote:
Originally posted by Kolchak
And if the price isn't a problem to me, what's it to you? As long as people want it, it doesn't hurt you in the least. If people find it too expensive, there's always the iBook. Choice is a good thing. Right now, we don't have that choice.

Besides, I don't think Apple would charge that much.

I agree. Bring on the subnotebooks!!
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post #80 of 133
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
2007! I thought all Macs would be running on intel before the end of 2006?

PowerMacs at, or before WWDC '06' was the impression I got.

End of transition by WWDC of 2007 is all we heard. However all intel macs should be out by end of 2006.
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