I feel offended by holiday greetings...

And my petition suggests that K-Mart use a K-Dog and kick your ass the next time you walk into one of their stores.

Oh grow up iSeeItNow

I think all this business of "Happy Holidays" is quite silly. But the reaction is even sillier. No one is holding you back from sending "Merry Christmas" cards, making huge displays of the birth of Jesus in light on your house and handing out candy in "jesus loves you" bags on the street.

It was pretty funny, though.

How clever...

Sarcasm doesn´t open up any discussion. Do you want to take the real debate or do you insist on the truthfulness of your first post and be forever known as the "crazy new year kid"?

This guy has to be someone we know. Someone with another handle.

NaplesX.

As someone who does not, never has, and never will celebrate Christmas, Happy Hollidays always refered to New Years and Christmas, and not Hanukah or Kwanza. This I believe was the most common perception until this year...

Maybe he does have a valid point on some not really important level. Why do we continue to base the calendar on the approximate birthday of the supposed son of the Christian god?

Where did you get that idea? The day is based on what was then thought to be the date of Solstice.

As I recall, the first European settlers of the U.S. (puritans specifically I think) did not even celebrate Christmas, feeling it was blasphemous and materialistic.

And they didn't even have the Targets and K-Marts of our times, let alone the Louis Vittons and crap like that.

Not sure what the thread is, exactly, but on the general topic "The War on Christmas":

It seems pretty clear to me that to the extent that there is widespread adoption of neutral holiday doings, it is being fueled by retailers who don't want to lose an ecumenical sale.

Of course, for the expediency of certain rightwing blow hards, the blame must be assigned to "elites", but pretty clearly we should be blaming the retail sector, AKA The Engine of Our Great and Blessed Economy, for whom "The Holidays" are the Turbo Charger of the Engine.

So the battle is properly described as the War Between Prosperity and Christmas, and Bill O'Reilly is an elitist who doesn't care if your baby has enough to eat.

Jeez. It took Europeans a long time just to get a calendar that only loses a day every four years! A good read.

Despite the newfound BCE and CE designations, when we celebrate the new year, it's still referring to the year Christians believe their savior was born. Maybe there's something to be said there. Not sure.

Isn't the root of the word Holiday...Holy-Day?

Kinda ironic that O'Reilly's fake outrage at the "Happy Holiday" political correctness would actually be rooted in "Holy" and "Day".

But let's all be honest about this made-up wedge issue of "The War on Christmas".

If you peel back all the layers, what do we really have here? We have a coordinated effort by the GOP, Bill O'Reilly, Fox News and Rush Limbaugh to drive home the notion that liberals/progessive are really Godless heathens who want to take Christmas away from you.

While I find this kind of blatant politicization of Christmas to be abhorrent and disgusting, you have to sit back and admire the callous brilliance of such a move. It truly is Rovian. Create a fake controversy. Use the #1 cable news channel to run multiple stories on it. Have Fox's #1 show spew villanous outrage about the situation. And then watch as the mainstream press and media pick up on it (not wanting to be left out) and, voila, Katie Couric conducting a "serious" discussion of the "issue".

It's Christmas everybody. Just a reminder that the Lib who lives next door is not really an American and you should be very worried about his personal agenda.

The best thing about how this works is that it allows you to introduce made up anecdotal horror stories into the mix that gradually take on the status of urban legend. I know, I know, the right driving resentment fueling wedge issues based on made up shit? Seems so very unlikely, and yet.

It's one of the great innovations of Rovian politics-- no need to wait around for actual resentment fueling wedge issues when you can just claim that some school in Texas "actually forbade their students to wear red and green during the holiday season!" Outrageous! Not true! Who cares! Goddamn liberals!

Sometimes I think that half the people who think that they hate "liberals" would reconsider if they could be shown that most of the "terrible things what liberals done" notions they have are quite simply lies.

I'd laugh at and stand in awe of these events if it weren't so damn sad. I never thought one of the two parties in our great nation would resort to the demonization and systematic branding half it's citizens.

Third Reich. Here we come.

Oer. Hannukah has nothing to do with Christmas. It's a Jewish celebration, which precedes the Christian celebration of Christmas.

The fact that you don't celebrate Christmas doesn't mean you need to be ignorant of other cultures and their festivals. We learn that in London, because our city is cosmopolitan and thankfully hicks and bumpkins think we're all gay because we don't stand rigid like a pitch fork during Christmas celebrations.


Depends whose side you're on. The Muslims are around 500 years behind stuck in 1600's or something like that; the Chinese follow a lunar calendar with 13 months; non-Gregorians tend to be majority; most of us following the capitalist calendar determine life by the start of the tax year and the end of the fiscal year. In between, we celebrate bank holidays by going shopping, hanging out in malls. This secular calendar is the best, except that the banks are closed on bank holidays so we can't check our hoardings. Before Christ, was the Greek calendar in Greek civilisation (well...I dunno...sometimes it needs to be spellt out for some of us); then the Latin calendar after rulers and emperors.

The Christian heritage from western Europe (stretching to the Americans) still leaves its mark on modern secular culture. Does that suck??

Oh boy. Wait until all traces of Christian influence disappear from the secular West. Then you won't have any illusions - you'll know for sure, without a shadow of a doubt what the piss in the water will taste like.


A historian would respond that the modern man is so distanced from historical events - possibly highly significant events - to the point of inertia, if not arrogant distrust of all things that have happened.


Er? Which calendar is this? Surely it's not the solar calendar we all use and love in Europe?



Many people do indeed get offended because they don't understand others' customs and greetings. By the way, "have you done your shit today?" That's a popular greeting in at least one subcontinental cultures.

It seems to apply to some in this forum too

Huh?

Perhaps you don't understand the debate that is currently raging in the US -- The Christian Right is Waging a War on the concept that the holiday season (er, I mean Christmas season) can be and is universal... they want people to stop saying happy holidays etc etc etc... They are doing this because they believe that these 'attacks' on their culture are coming from the liberal (read Jewish and Muslim) elite. It is a bizarre piece of antisemetic logic, which ultimately isn't antisemetic.

My point here was that the term Happy Holidays is often interpreted as refering to Christmas and New Years (and not Hanukah or Kwanza), even by Christians, even by Jews....

Glad Yüle and/or Happy Solstice to you!

Well, most of you.

I understand what you're saying. But I have to disagree that Christians feel they are being "attacked".

I don't know of anyone I've talked to who has EVER complain or express that they think Christmas is slipping away from them. If anything, they're complaining that Christmas has been completely blown out of proportion! I've also never met or talked to anyone who has EVER complained about the politcally correct use of the phrase "Happy Holidays". Ever.

There was no outrage until Bill O'Reilly and Fox News created one.

And I do not believe that they decided to start this culture war because they honestly believe what they're saying. They're simply creating a brand new wedge issue in which to hit liberals over the head with it. Again, they simply want to frighten American's into believing that liberals are godless animals who want more than anything than to steal Christmas from your children.

I agree... I am showing the false pretense here...

"Perhaps you don't understand the debate that is currently raging in the US -- The Christian Right is Waging a War on the concept that the holiday season (er, I mean Christmas season) can be and is universal... they want people to stop saying happy holidays etc etc etc..."

Thank God for England!

Hi Naples.

Explain. Particularly how the Democratic establishment, namely the DNC, along with Washington politicians, in a coordinated effort with CNN or MSNBC and any of their star personalities, have embarked on an established campaign to villify Christians.

Please be specific.

Well now I'm curious about this too. Where, exactly, is this anti-religious fervor that the "left" indulges in?

Which liberal politician or pundit is standing up and saying "Religious people are deluded and wrong and a blight on the country"?

Is there a plank in the Democratic platform that denounces Christianity? Or any religion? Is Howard Dean in the habit of taking to the airwaves to explain how faith is a sham?

Yes, by all means, please do be specific.

Well, uh, I know this, um, guy, and, um, he had this cousin who, um, wanted, um, to put, um, a 500 um, foot tall, um, porn star Mrs. Santa Claus, um, nekkid and, um, doing, you know, um, it, over the, um, freeway by his um, house. And them, um, libruls um, wouldn't um, let him. Um.

While we're at it, you know, making shit up. I was wondering, before this phony war on Christmas began, when was the last time you ran into a liberal who made you feel like crap for celebrating Christmas? Honestly. When was the last time you were asked to take down your Christmas lights? Seriously. How many churches in your neighborhood have shut down or closed their doors or stopped having mass because of a massive coordinated campaign by liberals? While we're at it, who was the last "news reporter" or "journalist" to get on national television and imply that you and your crazy Christian values are destroying the nation? Did Larry King or Keith Olbermann or Anderson Cooper or Chris Matthews or any left leaning news anchor intentionally embark on a anti-Christian crusade? Ever?

Please be specific. Because if you're not, then I'll have to call your cute little quip horseshit.

The anti-Christmas leftist bed wetters are amazing. Butch up and stop being so sensitive! I am a Christian and there is a Menorah in front of my building at this moment! Do you think I care? Of course not! I actually like seeing it each morning and evening. Let the Muslims and the Hindus and the Buddhists put up their celebrations. I can appreciate them all. Man, I am tired of whiny bed wetters.

Its the fucking Right that are complaining about how Christmas was stolen, have you not been watching O'Reilly shit himself everytime those scary liberals threaten to do away with um nothing.

Good example of what Ima talking about

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?se...cal&id=3745769

Oh, hey Moe. This is the point. Point, this is Moe.

I don't believe you two have been introduced.

Oh right, Christian displays on government property.

I wonder how far your tolerance would go if those Muslims and Buddhists and Hindus and Jews were putting up their religious iconography in front of the courthouse and at the post office and down at the city building and the local public schools.

How about Moe? Any chance you would get all whiny and bedwet-y if if a nice big crescent moon and star were installed in front of the local Tax Office?

Here, let me guess. You wouldn't get whiny, you would be filled with self righteous rage and fulminate about how the terrorists were winning the battle for hearts and minds and the ACLU was their bitch.

STFU.

From my previous post:
" Let the Muslims and the Hindus and the Buddhists put up their celebrations. I can appreciate them all. "

I'm sure you would have no problem with people decorating their homes and offices as they saw fit.

Everything you've ever posted here suggests that you would flip out if they started doing it at the courthouse.

Of course, it's pretty unlikely they're going to be celebrating Tet down at the Texas DMV, so I guess you're free to make claims.

However, I will bear your new found multi-cultural sensitivities in mind the next time you wax xenophobic.