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Aperture update to improve image export quality

post #1 of 66
Thread Starter 
Apple Computer as early as this evening is expected to release the first update to its Aperture all-in-one post production tool for photographers.

The update, labeled Aperture 1.0.1 Update, is expected to address a number of issues related to reliability and performance.

Aperture 1.0.1 will also deliver improved image export quality and metadata handling.

Owners of Aperture 1.0 will be able to access and install the update via the Mac OS X built-in Software Update mechanism. Alternatively, users should be able to download the software from Apple's Web site via this soon-to-be-updated support page.

Introduced in October, Aperture offers an advanced and incredibly fast RAW workflow that makes working with a cameras RAW images as easy as JPEG. Built from the ground up for pros, Aperture features powerful compare and select tools, nondestructive image processing, color managed printing and custom web and book publishing.

Aperture retails for $499, but Amazon.com is currently offering a $59 savings on software, bringing the cost down to $439.99.

Update: Apple has now posted the 11.4MB update to its Web site.

In addition to the aforementioned enhancements, Apple said some of other key areas addressed in the update include: white balance adjustment accuracy and performance, book and print ordering reliability, auto-stacking performance, and custom paper size handling.
post #2 of 66
I really hope this solves these problems. It's being battered around on several major sites.

Besides, I want to buy the damn thing already, but I don't want to use it with the problems it has.
post #3 of 66
creativepro.com had the best, most balanced, and exhaustive review so far.

ars technica's review was fine as far as it went; it just didn't go very far. Very disappointing considering ars' usual excellence.
post #4 of 66
Quote:
Originally posted by bikertwin
creativepro.com had the best, most balanced, and exhaustive review so far.

ars technica's review was fine as far as it went; it just didn't go very far. Very disappointing considering ars' usual excellence.

ArsTechnica's review quality has gone waaay downhill in the past year. This is in part because they let anyone review. The author of the AssTechnica review is a Photoshop guru...does image composition for a living. He's not a pro photographer and couldn't care less about workflow. The bulk of his review (which he tried to correct with a second part) revolved around RAW conversion of a handful of samples, tweaking them with effects (his Photoshop instincts) and exporting them.

His excuse for not reviewing the entire app was "the app didn't cut it for *my* workflow"...ok, but he's not in the business of sorting thousands of photos really fast.
post #5 of 66
Quote:
Originally posted by kim kap sol
ArsTechnica's review quality has gone waaay downhill in the past year. This is in part because they let anyone review. The author of the AssTechnica review is a Photoshop guru...does image composition for a living. He's not a pro photographer and couldn't care less about workflow. The bulk of his review (which he tried to correct with a second part) revolved around RAW conversion of a handful of samples, tweaking them with effects (his Photoshop instincts) and exporting them.

His excuse for not reviewing the entire app was "the app didn't cut it for *my* workflow"...ok, but he's not in the business of sorting thousands of photos really fast.

Interesting! I didn't know that.

Hopefully the screams of protest in the forums (they ended up locking the thread) will give Ars a hint that they need to think this through better next time.
post #6 of 66
Quote:
Originally posted by bikertwin
Interesting! I didn't know that.

Hopefully the screams of protest in the forums (they ended up locking the thread) will give Ars a hint that they need to think this through better next time.

I think the consensus was that Beige (Dave) did an decent job showing some of the major problems in Aperture (RAW conversion and problems with metadata not sticking on export) but poor at showing the workflow aspect of the app (which is what that app was all about.) He then compared some aspects of the app to Photoshop (another hint that his heart is in image composition and not photograph sorting and tweaking.)

Yes, there are bugs in Aperture. Some are fairly serious to some people. But it's no excuse for a reviewer to stop his review short. And if it is an excuse to stop a review short, the review rating should be skipped altogether.

If we compare to Version Tracker or MacUpdate reviews, there are two types of people: ones that recognize that they can't review the app if it, say, crashes on launch and those that don't. The ones that do will leave a polite note saying the app crashes on launch and not rate the app. The ones that don't will give it a rating of 1/5 (or whichever is the lowest rating) and whine about it without giving any substantial information.

The Ars review of Aperture almost sounded like the latter.
post #7 of 66
Dave is not untypical of those who will be using the program. Many photographers never do selections of their own photos any more. The editors do it.

As he said, even he has to do it. I've had customers over the years who asked me to sit with them and make selections.

I can easily see editors in newspapers or magazines using this. The photographers almost never do their own selections.

When we used to run a Kodachrome line, we had Time as a client.

We would keep the lab open on weekends when they had stories being flown in. We would develop the film and give it straight to a member of the editorial staff, who took it right to the offices to be evaluated.

The photographer was still on the other continent.

If anything, with digital images being transmitted directly to the home office, there is less intervention by the photographer.

For weddings and the like, it's a different story.
post #8 of 66
Arse Technika is populated by Windows shills and astroturfers. It has always been a place where Apple users and fans are attacked and denigrated by the gang of pompous asses that like to assert their presumed superiority over anyone that chooses the Macintosh as their platform of choice.

In their review, Aperture was dismissed out of hand for it's RAW converter alone, with no consideration to it's revolutionary workflow and photo selection features, not to mention it's gorgeous user interface.

RAW is not an Industry standard, but a set of proprietary algorithms to convert the raw information captured by the camera's CCD chip. Each manufacture's implementation is unique, thus Nikon's RAW implementation (NEF) is different from Canon's or Sony's or anyone else's.

Aperture has tackled the monumental job of making order out of the chaos that is RAW file conversion. That they have a product that can address this at all is surprising, that version 1.0 has shortcomings for Photoshop wonks is not.

Adobe is attempting to address this with a universal format (DNG) for camera RAW files. This is hopefully something that the camera manufacturers will get on board with, and when they do Apple will be there with Aperture.
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post #9 of 66
Quote:
Originally posted by Aphelion
Arse Technika is populated by Windows shills and astroturfers. It has always been a place where Apple users and fans are attacked and denigrated by the gang of pompous asses that like to assert their presumed superiority over anyone that chooses the Macintosh as their platform of choice.

In their review, Aperture was dismissed out of hand for it's RAW converter alone, with no consideration to it's revolutionary workflow and photo selection features, not to mention it's gorgeous user interface.

RAW is not an Industry standard, but a set of proprietary algorithms to convert the raw information captured by the camera's CCD chip. Each manufacture's implementation is unique, thus Nikon's RAW implementation (NEF) is different from Canon's or Sony's or anyone else's.

Aperture has tackled the monumental job of making order out of the chaos that is RAW file conversion. That they have a product that can address this at all is surprising, that version 1.0 has shortcomings for Photoshop wonks is not.

Adobe is attempting to address this with a universal format (DNG) for camera RAW files. This is hopefully something that the camera manufacturers will get on board with, and when they do Apple will be there with Aperture.

I've been there for years, and Ars has a very large Mac community.

Many of those on both sides of the debate were Mac users. In fact, most of those in the debate were Mac users.

What has to be understood is at this point in time there are numerous programs that offer RAW conversion. It is nothing new.

The point that was being made was that with all of these programs that do it, and with several professional level programs that do, Apple has had time to evaluate how well it was being done, and had the understanding as to what would have been expected from a conversion.

That their conversions seem to be substandard when compared to these other respected conversions was a point of contention.

I had pointed out that it seemed as though Apple was going for more detail in shadows than other converters were. The compromise they accepted by doing this looks to be too much.

There were other problems as well.

It's a first try. The 1.0.1 update doesn't seem to have helped much, but we'll see when 10.4.4 comes out.
post #10 of 66
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
I've been there for years, and Ars has a very large Mac community...

... It's a first try. The 1.0.1 update doesn't seem to have helped much, but we'll see when 10.4.4 comes out.

Right melgross, there are many Mac users in Arse forums, and the Macintoshian Achaia forum is especially useful for Apple users. But there is also an undeniable population of long time Mac haters and Microsoft's paid shills that rule the Battlefront forum especially. Some are even moderators!

But back to the topic at hand, yes Aperture has flaws, and 1.0.1 is just the first of many "improvements" to the program. The RAW conversion process, being a core graphics implementation, will be improved with 10.4.4 and future OSX updates.

Beige's review was a total slag off of Aperture, which will get Apple's attention when it comes to improving their RAW conversion. Getting that slap in the face will ultimately be a good thing for the program's development.
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post #11 of 66
Quote:
Originally posted by Aphelion
Right melgross, there are many Mac users in Arse forums, and the Macintoshian Achaia forum is especially useful for Apple users. But there is also an undeniable population of long time Mac haters and Microsoft's paid shills that rule the Battlefront forum especially. Some are even moderators!

But back to the topic at hand, yes Aperture has flaws, and 1.0.1 is just the first of many "improvements" to the program. The RAW conversion process, being a core graphics implementation, will be improved with 10.4.4 and future OSX updates.

Beige's review was a total slag off of Aperture, which will get Apple's attention when it comes to improving their RAW conversion. Getting that slap in the face will ultimately be a good thing for the program's development.

There are a few guys I've tangled with.

His review was tough, it's true.

But if you were a pro, shooting critical work, wouldn't you be concerned about the quality of the conversions more than you were concerned with the workflow?

I know I would. Most of the work that came through my plant was for advertising, fashion, magazine editorials, and sometimes huge images for the sides of buildings, such as the Sapphire Bombay ads.

It's slow and careful.
post #12 of 66
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
Dave is not untypical of those who will be using the program. Many photographers never do selections of their own photos any more. The editors do it.

As he said, even he has to do it. I've had customers over the years who asked me to sit with them and make selections.

I can easily see editors in newspapers or magazines using this. The photographers almost never do their own selections.

When we used to run a Kodachrome line, we had Time as a client.

We would keep the lab open on weekends when they had stories being flown in. We would develop the film and give it straight to a member of the editorial staff, who took it right to the offices to be evaluated.

The photographer was still on the other continent.

If anything, with digital images being transmitted directly to the home office, there is less intervention by the photographer.

For weddings and the like, it's a different story.

Weird. You start off by saying that the reviewer is not untypical of people using the program. And then you give a number of reasons for that type of user not to need Aperture.

Well, then isn't the logical conclusion that they shouldn't buy Aperture?

It's like asking a secretary who writes nothing but memos all day to review InDesign. :-) If s/he doesn't need the features, why buy or review the program?
post #13 of 66
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
But if you were a pro, shooting critical work, wouldn't you be concerned about the quality of the conversions more than you were concerned with the workflow?

The point is that the review was incomplete, not that its (limited) conclusions were wrong.

Look at the review at creativepro.com, and you'll see he came to the same conclusions about the raw conversions (in fact it had a lot more complaints overall) and yet he managed to review the entire application.

Have you read the creativepro review? What did you think of it compared to Ars Technica's review?
post #14 of 66
Quote:
Originally posted by bikertwin
Weird. You start off by saying that the reviewer is not untypical of people using the program. And then you give a number of reasons for that type of user not to need Aperture.

Well, then isn't the logical conclusion that they shouldn't buy Aperture?

It's like asking a secretary who writes nothing but memos all day to review InDesign. :-) If s/he doesn't need the features, why buy or review the program?

Not at all. If you read it the way I wrote it, along with I've said before, you will see that what I'm saying is that this program will be used by these people.

But, right now, the problems it has with quality will preclude that use.

Once Apple fixes those problems it will be a different story.

Perfectly logical.
post #15 of 66
Quote:
Originally posted by bikertwin
The point is that the review was incomplete, not that its (limited) conclusions were wrong.

Look at the review at creativepro.com, and you'll see he came to the same conclusions about the raw conversions (in fact it had a lot more complaints overall) and yet he managed to review the entire application.

Have you read the creativepro review? What did you think of it compared to Ars Technica's review?

It was incomplete. You are right.

That was one of the complaints about the initial review.

My point was the same one that he had made. That as the quality of the conversions was poor, he didn't want to evaluate the workflow, as having good workflow (assuming that it would, since he hadn't checked at that time) wouldn't matter if the output was unusable.

It does make sense. He wanted to wait until Apple fixed those problems that they had already admitted to by the time his review had come out.

So, he felt that he would wait until 10.4.4 came out, with the "improved" converters, and then do a full review.

It's possible that he should have waited in the first place, but that wouldn't have been right either. It was proper to let people know his initial conclusions about the quality.

As I Think you also said, maybe this review will help to spur Apple to fix it faster.

EDIT Sorry I didn't answer the other part of your post.

Yes, I read it.

It seems to me that both reviews are saying about the same thing.

Each one emphasizes their own concerns.

Other reviews have said pretty much the same thing. Some reviews seem to have been written by amateurs. They tend to be less critical, and more "wow".

Remember we were arguing about this program before it came out. We couldn't see the quality problems because we had nothing to compare it against during the show. It all looked good!

Some of the workflow problems were apparent , however. But we didn't have time to test them there.

My feeling is that Apple had better fix these problems quickly. If they do, everything will be fine. But, if they don't, then it will haunt them.

The other question that remains is how older photo's still in the database, but given initial corrections will fare when the conversions are adjusted by Apple.

Since they are applied every time you open an image, will they be different?

This is a BIG question. If I correct an image based upon older conversions, and do a workaround to a quality problem such as noise, what will happen if they change that noise correction later on? Will I have to re-do the image all over again? This is a problem with the approach they have taken.

So far, Apple has not commented upon this. They should let us know what will happen, and somehow detect previously corrected images and allow the old corrections to be re-applied when opening them again after the newer converters (or any other improvements to the corrections are made). Then give us the option to apply a correction to an uncorrected version, in addition, if we so wish.

Do you agree?
post #16 of 66
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
... But if you were a pro, shooting critical work, wouldn't you be concerned about the quality of the conversions more than you were concerned with the workflow?... It's slow and careful.

I am a pro, in the sense that I get paid for my work when I do a shoot. I've taken pictures for money for decades.

You want to talk huge images? At one point I owned an aerial photography firm that used a mapping camera that cost more than the aircraft that carried it! When I talk "large format" I think about 12" x 12" negatives, this on a 400' roll of film!

Aperture would not have been very useful for replacing an analytical photogrammetric plotter for evaluating stereo photo pairs, and I suspect that, at least until Apple gets the RAW converters up to par with the best out there, high resolution work will continue to use their current RAW conversion process. That's where "slow and careful" comes in. Picking the shot to be processed is where Aperture surpasses anything that has come before it.

This is where Aperture would be worth the $500 just to sort the RAW images into "keepers" for conversion in the RAW processor format of choice.

I did a family portrait this week and shoot 66 frames to get one "money shot" (the image that was eventually printed). My workflow for this work is to load the shots into iPhoto on site to let the customer view the pictures and agree on which one they like and want printed. The actual process of producing that print is either done in Photoshop, or directly by the printer from the CF card.

Imaging trying to use Photoshop to let the customer pick a shot! Aperture will be a key product for many professional photographers, especially those like event photographers who typically shoot hundreds of shots in one shoot.

Workflow advantages will drive this program's popularity, getting RAW right will make Aperture a must have application for any serious photographer or agency. It's going to sell thousands of quad Powermacs.
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post #17 of 66
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
It was incomplete. You are right.
...
It seems to me that both reviews are saying about the same thing.

Each one emphasizes their own concerns.

Well I completely disagree with that (I'll address your other point in another reply).

Yes, both reviews say that raw conversion stinks in many cases. No quibble about that.

Ars' review stops dead there. No more info about the rest of the program. How can that be "about the same thing" when creativepro.com covers so much more of what Aperture does (and criticized many parts of that, too)?

I don't understand. How can a review of 25% of a program's capabilities be compared to a review of 90%+ of a program's capabilities.

They weren't even in the same ballpark.
post #18 of 66
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
The other question that remains is how older photo's still in the database, but given initial corrections will fare when the conversions are adjusted by Apple.

Since they are applied every time you open an image, will they be different?

This is a BIG question. If I correct an image based upon older conversions, and do a workaround to a quality problem such as noise, what will happen if they change that noise correction later on? Will I have to re-do the image all over again? This is a problem with the approach they have taken.

So far, Apple has not commented upon this. They should let us know what will happen, and somehow detect previously corrected images and allow the old corrections to be re-applied when opening them again after the newer converters (or any other improvements to the corrections are made). Then give us the option to apply a correction to an uncorrected version, in addition, if we so wish.

Do you agree?

Yes, I definitely agree that this can be an issue. It will be interesting to see how Apple deals (or doesn't deal) with it. It will also be interesting to see how much of a real world effect there will be. It could be big, it could be small. Looks like we'll find out with 10.4.4.
post #19 of 66
Quote:
Originally posted by bikertwin
Well I completely disagree with that (I'll address your other point in another reply).

Yes, both reviews say that raw conversion stinks in many cases. No quibble about that.

Ars' review stops dead there. No more info about the rest of the program. How can that be "about the same thing" when creativepro.com covers so much more of what Aperture does (and criticized many parts of that, too)?

I don't understand. How can a review of 25% of a program's capabilities be compared to a review of 90%+ of a program's capabilities.

They weren't even in the same ballpark.

He updated his review. The second part reviews the workflow, among other things.

I'm refering to both parts. I thought you knew about that.

http://arstechnica.com/reviews/apps/...e-followup.ars
post #20 of 66
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
He updated his review. The second part reviews the workflow, among other things.

I'm refering to both parts. I thought you knew about that.

http://arstechnica.com/reviews/apps/...e-followup.ars

So you're saying that you think part 1 & part 2 of Ars' review is anywhere near as comprehensive as the creativepro.com review?

Are you reading the creativepro.com review that I'm thinking of?

http://www.creativepro.com/story/review/23756.html
post #21 of 66
Quote:
Originally posted by bikertwin
So you're saying that you think part 1 & part 2 of Ars' review is anywhere near as comprehensive as the creativepro.com review?

Are you reading the creativepro.com review that I'm thinking of?

http://www.creativepro.com/story/review/23756.html

If you're refering to the one long page review that you posted, then yes.

Ars' review is fairly comprehensive, if both parts are taken. Why wouldn't you think so?
post #22 of 66
Quote:
Originally posted by Aphelion
Right melgross, there are many Mac users in Arse forums, and the Macintoshian Achaia forum is especially useful for Apple users. But there is also an undeniable population of long time Mac haters and Microsoft's paid shills that rule the Battlefront forum especially. Some are even moderators!

Hey, welcome to the internet! If you go anywhere that's not a 100% mac community, you're going to find mac haters. Its life.

Quote:
Originally posted by Aphelion
But back to the topic at hand, yes Aperture has flaws, and 1.0.1 is just the first of many "improvements" to the program. The RAW conversion process, being a core graphics implementation, will be improved with 10.4.4 and future OSX updates.

(Warning! Just what you all need, commentary from a know-nothing message board poster who doesn't do pictures and cameras! - Hey, I'm talking about me hear, by the way.8) )

First off, I'd like to point out that in no way in my mind should I expect any piece of software to be improved by an OS release. That in of itself worries me. But that's a different story.

Secondly, I'd like to point out that one of the large concerns I've read about Aperture is this exact thing: That the RAW conversion is handled by CoreImage, and that updates to the OS will update the RAW conversion. Great. But how is this going to affect all existing images that have been processed? The way I understand it, the RAW images are untouched, the modifications to it are stored in a file that are executed on the RAW image to produce the results. If the RAW converter changes, doesn't that affect the way the photo is looked at tomorrow?
post #23 of 66
Quote:
Originally posted by Louzer
First off, I'd like to point out that in no way in my mind should I expect any piece of software to be improved by an OS release. That in of itself worries me. But that's a different story.

Secondly, I'd like to point out that one of the large concerns I've read about Aperture is this exact thing: That the RAW conversion is handled by CoreImage, and that updates to the OS will update the RAW conversion. Great. But how is this going to affect all existing images that have been processed? The way I understand it, the RAW images are untouched, the modifications to it are stored in a file that are executed on the RAW image to produce the results. If the RAW converter changes, doesn't that affect the way the photo is looked at tomorrow? [/B]

That's one of the things we are worried about.

Read my and bikertwin's posts above.
post #24 of 66
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
If you're refering to the one long page review that you posted, then yes.

Ars' review is fairly comprehensive, if both parts are taken. Why wouldn't you think so?

?!
post #25 of 66
Quote:
Originally posted by bikertwin
?!

Could you be more explicit?
post #26 of 66
Quote:
Originally posted by Louzer
Hey, welcome to the internet! If you go anywhere that's not a 100% mac community, you're going to find mac haters. Its life... one of the large concerns I've read about Aperture is this exact thing: That the RAW conversion is handled by CoreImage, and that updates to the OS will update the RAW conversion. Great. But how is this going to affect all existing images that have been processed?...

Welcome to the Internet? I was on bulletin boards with Xmodem when you were probably still in diapers. And there are haters of all types everywhere, it's only when they are elevated to moderators that I take exception to their presence on "open" forums.

That changes to core graphics may effect previous images processed by Aperture is a HUGE concern and I am sure that Apple will address this issue when those changes are implemented. I would expect that some sort of versioning capability for Aperture will accompany these changes.

Photoshop has a compatibility dialog box for it's color profiling that allows compatibility with 1998 versions of Photoshop color profiles. Apple will most likely do something very similar.
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post #27 of 66
Quote:
Originally posted by Aphelion
Welcome to the Internet? I was on bulletin boards with Xmodem when you were probably still in diapers. And there are haters of all types everywhere, it's only when they are elevated to moderators that I take exception to their presence on "open" forums.

Wow, you've been xmodeming since the early 70's (OK, so I had a bladder problem when I was young, that's no reason to ridicule me!) That's a long time. Keep in mind that its not like there's rules out there saying a moderator has to be impartial. Hell, if you're going to insist on that, the next thing you know you'll be wanting people to fact-check everything they want to write before posting information...

Again, welcome to the internet...

BTW, I can tell you've been around for a while, since you still have the typewriter habit of double-spacing after a sentence. [For those of you too young to know, a typewriter is an ancient machine in which one would press keys, and the corresponding symbol would be generated onto a piece of paper immediately. Sure, it sounds ancient and archaic, but, believe it or not, still easier to use then Wordstar!]

Quote:
Originally posted by Aphelion
That changes to core graphics may effect previous images processed by Aperture is a HUGE concern and I am sure that Apple will address this issue when those changes are implemented. I would expect that some sort of versioning capability for Aperture will accompany these changes.

Call me a pessimist (or a pest, idiot, jerk-wad, self-egrandizing fool, maniac Perot voter, or whatever, just don't call me a Yankees fan), but I just don't see Apple addressing this issue until people confront them about it. It seems like an obvious area of concern, yet then why didn't apple address it in v1.0 (with something like "Hey, and don't worry, switching video cards or upgrading OS X isn't going to screw up these transformations you've made, unless you want them to"). And I've just never seen apple on the forefront on user's issues like this. They're usually reactive, not proactive (woo-hoo! marketing speak!)

OK, now bck to my nap. I've got a couple more hours of sleep to get in before I head home from work...
post #28 of 66
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
Could you be more explicit?

Yeah, but I think the mods would censor it.
post #29 of 66
Quote:
Originally posted by Louzer
Call me a pessimist (or a pest, idiot, jerk-wad, self-egrandizing fool, maniac Perot voter, or whatever, just don't call me a Yankees fan), but I just don't see Apple addressing this issue until people confront them about it. It seems like an obvious area of concern, yet then why didn't apple address it in v1.0 (with something like "Hey, and don't worry, switching video cards or upgrading OS X isn't going to screw up these transformations you've made, unless you want them to"). And I've just never seen apple on the forefront on user's issues like this. They're usually reactive, not proactive (woo-hoo! marketing speak!)

OK, now bck to my nap. I've got a couple more hours of sleep to get in before I head home from work...

Reflecting on this a little bit (between naps, perhaps 8) ), it seems that Apple's/QuickTime's/FinalCutPro's video codecs have changed/improved over time, and no one seems to complain about versioning.

Generally, they would probably only change significantly after the dawn of a new camera/sensor, and would hopefully only improve.

But again, only time will tell. I think we'll have to go through a few revisions of the raw converters before people decide whether this is a real problem or not.

Do I sound indecisive?
post #30 of 66
Quote:
Originally posted by Louzer
... just don't call me a Yankees fan...

Ok, then I shall call you George Steinbrenner

But you are very observant about my typing style, I so miss the chambered round sound of my IBM selectric each time I punch a key!
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post #31 of 66
Quote:
Originally posted by bikertwin
... it seems that Apple's/QuickTime's/FinalCutPro's video codecs have changed/improved over time, and no one seems to complain about versioning...

The issue with Aperture's presumed improvements in RAW decoding algorithms is that due to the nature of the way it applies the filters to the RAW file, (on the fly, in real time), the image may change, if ever so slightly, from one version (of core image) to the next.

I think that this issue is overblown, since most $$$ files will be exported anyway, thus preserving the changes. Still, it limits Aperture's value as an archival tool thus, Louzers issues with Apple aside, they will need to implement versioning for those who will demand that the images they have tweeked remain exactly the same.

Since it has become an issue I think we will be hearing something from Apple on this, most likely with 10.4.4's release.
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post #32 of 66
Why does the aperture update appear EVERY time that I check software update???

I have updated to 1.01 already and it keeps telling me that 1.01 is available for download?

<deep sigh>

post #33 of 66
Quote:
Originally posted by Aphelion
Welcome to the Internet? I was on bulletin boards with Xmodem when you were probably still in diapers. And there are haters of all types everywhere, it's only when they are elevated to moderators that I take exception to their presence on "open" forums.

That changes to core graphics may effect previous images processed by Aperture is a HUGE concern and I am sure that Apple will address this issue when those changes are implemented. I would expect that some sort of versioning capability for Aperture will accompany these changes.

Photoshop has a compatibility dialog box for it's color profiling that allows compatibility with 1998 versions of Photoshop color profiles. Apple will most likely do something very similar.

Ah, you remember those days too?

I can remember how amazed I was when my 300 baud (that's a word out of the past!) modem allowed me to read the letters one at a time as they appeared on the screen from my Compuserve account.

I also remember being charged almost 10 hours long distance for the number in Florida I had to use as there wasn't a local number. The modem failed to hang up properly, and I didn't notice (they relented when they realised what had happened, and didn't charge me! (At those rates!!!)

The difference about the way Photoshop does it is that they have their own internal workings. In addition, that is only working space, or a profile. Neither is permanent, and can be changed at will. What Aperture does is different. It would be as though Adobe replaced Adobe 1998 with something else, and the original profile was removed entirely, with the new profile replacing the old. It would be as though the profile actually changed the information in the file if you exported it.
post #34 of 66
Quote:
Originally posted by bikertwin
Reflecting on this a little bit (between naps, perhaps 8) ), it seems that Apple's/QuickTime's/FinalCutPro's video codecs have changed/improved over time, and no one seems to complain about versioning.

The video world is very different from the still photo world. There were complaints about Apple's first codecs, but they resided within the program. you could use an older version.

The problem with them residing within the OS is that you won't be able to have access to the older versions as Apple and other software companies tend to require the latest versions of the OS all too often.

Quote:
Generally, they would probably only change significantly after the dawn of a new camera/sensor, and would hopefully only improve.

But again, only time will tell. I think we'll have to go through a few revisions of the raw converters before people decide whether this is a real problem or not.

Sure, that's likely right, and I would hope so as well.

Quote:
Do I sound indecisive?

NEVER!

And I wouldn't want it to be any other way.
post #35 of 66
Quote:
Originally posted by TednDi
Why does the aperture update appear EVERY time that I check software update???

I have updated to 1.01 already and it keeps telling me that 1.01 is available for download?

<deep sigh>


Software Update has some known bugs with this very issue.
post #36 of 66
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
Software Update has some known bugs with this very issue.

Man, you can say that again!

I mean, why in the world can't software update realize that I have the most current version of iwhatever in a folder named iapps?

It's the single biggest annoyance of mine with OS X. It drives me batty!
A good brain ain't diddly if you don't have the facts
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A good brain ain't diddly if you don't have the facts
Reply
post #37 of 66
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
Software Update has some known bugs with this very issue.

Probably not Software Update per se. I think the Aperture team forgot to change a version string in the updated 1.0.1. Software Update probably still reads Aperture 1.0.1 as Aperture 1.0. I'm sure this could be resolved if you look for the problematic string inside the bundle.
post #38 of 66
It is one of those annoying things that make the (Cr)Aperture experience so...


how shall I say it.....


MICROSOFT!!!!!


There, I said it......


post #39 of 66
Quote:
Originally posted by kim kap sol
Probably not Software Update per se. I think the Aperture team forgot to change a version string in the updated 1.0.1. Software Update probably still reads Aperture 1.0.1 as Aperture 1.0. I'm sure this could be resolved if you look for the problematic string inside the bundle.

That's also possible. This isn't the first time this has happened though. It's been discussed on Macfixit and Macintouch for at least a couple of years.
post #40 of 66
Quote:
Originally posted by TednDi
Why does the aperture update appear EVERY time that I check software update???

I have updated to 1.01 already and it keeps telling me that 1.01 is available for download?

<deep sigh>


Took me a while to find you again1

If you haven't seen this:

http://www.macfixit.com/article.php?...51229092817471
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