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MacTel iMac and names

post #1 of 31
Thread Starter 
I'm sorry as I'm sure much of this will have been covered before. However, I've seen a couple of posts suggesting that the Intel iMac may get a new form factor. Do we think this is likely? I have an iMac G5 (first version) which I love - best Mac I've ever owned. I'd like an Intel Mac (preferably iMac) but would hate to lose the all-in-one form factor, particulalry one as good as this.

Secondly, the iBook and Powerbook are all branded 'iBook G4' 'Powerbook G4', what will the branding be for the MacTels do you think? 'iBook Intel' doesn't have quite the same ring to it ...
post #2 of 31
Well Apple would be able to slim down the unit a bit for a more 'organic' looking iMac, but in terms of all-in-one form factors, Apple seems to have run the gauntlet. The original mac, the Plus, the SE, the Classic, the Color Classic, the LC 520, 550, 575, 580, the Powermac 5200 5300, 5260, 5400 LCs, the 20 an. mac, the Powermac G3 All-In-One, the original iMac and all of it's revisions, the iMac G4 and the iMac G5. I really can't think of any other form factor that Apple could do with an AI1 form factor.
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post #3 of 31
I do not see a smaller MacMini as being desirable, if it were any smaller then there would be a risk of the "tail wagging the dog". Video, USB, firewire cables would weigh to much and cause the MacMini to move around/tilt or generable not stay where it is put. It need to be a certain size to remain stable.
Wll I have my G5 so I am off to get a life; apart from this post...
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Wll I have my G5 so I am off to get a life; apart from this post...
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post #4 of 31
Names will almost 100% likely remain the same, and for a few simple reasons:
1) Branding - Apple has already invested so much into the names of its computers, and with such a small marketshare that it has, it is critical that it retains its names for the rest of the general population to be aware of them, (and their reputation).
2) Jobs wants to keep this intel switch as low profile in terms of what it means to the consumer as possible.
post #5 of 31
I don't think Apple would get rid of the all in one form of the iMac. It's a big selling point to many, and it's like the iMac's trademark to be the all in one from Apple. Don't fix it if it ain't broken.
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post #6 of 31
I think "Intel" has to be in the name somewhere, probably in the form of the new Intel logo, for a very simple reason: Preventing consumer confusion.

Joe 6-Pack has to know which software he can buy that will work. If he buys Unreal Tournament for Mac and it doesn't work well on his new shiny box, he isn't going to be happy.

So, Steve will tell him to look for the "Intel" logo on the software box. The front of the computer will remind him. Not a sticker - embossed and proudly displayed right on the front. Maybe right in the middle of the Apple logo. Think about it.
post #7 of 31
Quote:
Originally posted by cubist
I think "Intel" has to be in the name somewhere, probably in the form of the new Intel logo, for a very simple reason: Preventing consumer confusion.

Joe 6-Pack has to know which software he can buy that will work. If he buys Unreal Tournament for Mac and it doesn't work well on his new shiny box, he isn't going to be happy.

So, Steve will tell him to look for the "Intel" logo on the software box. The front of the computer will remind him. Not a sticker - embossed and proudly displayed right on the front. Maybe right in the middle of the Apple logo. Think about it.

I just did, and I think you shouldn't start drinking so early Joe 6-Pack.
People will be aware of is compatibility because of the OS compatibility mentions on the box. Like works with WIn 98 - Win XP and higher. There is no mistaking that said software is not going to work with Win 95. Just like works with Mac OS 9, and Mac OS X. It's all on the box. If you neglect to read what your software works with it before you make the purchase that's your own fault. They wont need it to say intel on it anywhere. And it certainly wont say Macintel, or Mac Tel. That would just be plain stupid for ruining great brand name recognition that Apple has.
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post #8 of 31
Apple will try to maintain the brand names. So, I prognosticate:

the "iMac G5" will simply be "iMac (w/special feature)"
the "iBook G4" will simply be "iBook (w/special feature)"
the "Mac mini" will simply be "Mac mini (w/special feature)"
the "Powerbook G4" will simply be "Powerbook (w/special feature)"
the "Power Mac G5" will simply be "Power Mac (w/special feature)"

The "iMac (release date)" with Intel processors will be the same sort of form factor but thinner. I think they want it 1" thin and maybe even a reduced chin. The chin looks like it is part of the brand though, so maybe not.
post #9 of 31
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
...And it certainly wont say Macintel, or Mac Tel. That would just be plain stupid for ruining great brand name recognition that Apple has.

I agree, the iMac will be an iMac, the Mac Mini a Mac Mini, and iBook an iBook. There is too much investment in their names and consumer recognition to change them now just becouse of a processor change. I'm not sure about the PowerMac and PowerBook. I heard there may be some legal problems using the name that is tied to the PowerPC processor, and since the name was adopted with the 601 processor it is sort of tied to the processor. Apple might decide to change this somehow to differentiate the new computers from legacy PowerPC models, possibly going with XMac (like the Xserve) for their pro line, go for something new or if needed go through any potential legal fights for the continued use of the Power title to keep the well established brand recognition.

Correction: The PowerBook 100 was released in 1991 with a 16 MHz 68HC000 CPU so it predates the PowerPC archetecture and there probably wouldn't be any legal problems with Apple continuing to use the name.
post #10 of 31
i think it would be good if they just started the intel macs off at G6, then it would be easy for people to see which software they could use etc:

PowerPC Software: Any G3, G4 or G5 Computer (tho with rosetta, G3 or above)

Intel: G6 or above

Universal Binary: G3/G4 or above.


stu
post #11 of 31
Quote:
Originally posted by stustanley
i think it would be good if they just started the intel macs off at G6, then it would be easy for people to see which software they could use etc:

PowerPC Software: Any G3, G4 or G5 Computer (tho with rosetta, G3 or above)

Intel: G6 or above

Universal Binary: G3/G4 or above.


stu

are there going to be any intel-only apps? i thought the idea was that any app brought to the intel side would retain it's PPC compatibility and any new app created would already be a univeral binary?
post #12 of 31
Quote:
Originally posted by speed_the_collapse
are there going to be any intel-only apps? i thought the idea was that any app brought to the intel side would retain it's PPC compatibility and any new app created would already be a univeral binary?

Developers who don't play by the rules could release Intel-only binaries...I've already seen a few people do that on tiny shareware/freeware projects. But you are correct...developers who aren't lazy or misinformed will release Universal Binary projects. This is the cleanest way to handle the transition so that users don't need to worry if some new piece of software is x86 or PPC compatible.

Until WWDC 2009 or so when Steve Jobs does what he did with OS 9 and shows a tombstone stating "PPC - Rest in peace...", developers and users both should expect that software designed properly will always be a Universal Binary.

-- Ensoniq
post #13 of 31
I agree that "Intel", "MacTel", etc., would seem unlikely to be part of the name. "G6" is kinda elegant in terms of continuity, but I think there may be two obstacles: first, since the G5 is IBM's processor, would Apple have the right to co-opt that lineage name for a non-IBM processor, and second, I think retaining the "G" series name for a different processor platform may be confusing to some, since the name could make people think it's another of the G5 ilk rather than an Intel-based processor.

Quote:
Originally posted by stustanley
i think it would be good if they just started the intel macs off at G6, then it would be easy for people to see which software they could use etc:

PowerPC Software: Any G3, G4 or G5 Computer (tho with rosetta, G3 or above)

Intel: G6 or above

Universal Binary: G3/G4 or above.


stu
post #14 of 31
Quote:
Originally posted by THT
Apple will try to maintain the brand names. So, I prognosticate:

the "iMac G5" will simply be "iMac (w/special feature)"
the "iBook G4" will simply be "iBook (w/special feature)"
the "Mac mini" will simply be "Mac mini (w/special feature)"
the "Powerbook G4" will simply be "Powerbook (w/special feature)"
the "Power Mac G5" will simply be "Power Mac (w/special feature)"

The "iMac (release date)" with Intel processors will be the same sort of form factor but thinner. I think they want it 1" thin and maybe even a reduced chin. The chin looks like it is part of the brand though, so maybe not.

If Apple was designing a custom chip with intel they could get away with calling it the G6, or whatever, for instance. The probably wouldn't call it the G-anything tho because of the switch.
post #15 of 31
They could simply call it the G6 and ignore any ties it had to old architectures.

Does anyone here think that when OS 11 come out, they're going to call it OS XI? I don't see that happening, as Jobs would probably loathe that weird looking I screwing up the X's symmetry.

No, X is going to become a brand identity, and lose it's old ties to the fact it was the 10th iteration of the Mac OS. No reason the G can't do the same thing.
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post #16 of 31
Apple is one who calls those processors/Machines G series machines. Neither Motorola, or IBM use the G-brand Moniker. It's all Apple.
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post #17 of 31
As far as OS 11, I don't think its ever going to happen. Mac OS X will last for quite a while yet, if Apple wan't to make it last, and they probably will want make it last. Given the current roadmap of releases one can predict it could last until 2012 or even longer if the roadmap is slowed down.
2005 - 10.4
2006 - 10.5
2008 - 10.6
2009 - 10.7
2011 - 10.8
2012 - 10.9
After that it would be very anti-climactic to call the next OS, OS 11. It will have some name.

But I am a little befuddled as to what by then could be added to opperating systems. Most improvements I see are hardware, or software directly related to hardware outside of the next 3-5 years.
post #18 of 31
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post #19 of 31
Quote:
Originally posted by Ensoniq
...Until WWDC 2009 or so when Steve Jobs does what he did with OS 9 and shows a tombstone stating "PPC - Rest in peace...", developers and users both should expect that software designed properly will always be a Universal Binary.

A smart developer would continue writing as closly to Apple's standards even after that, this may not be the last processor change and the more Options that Apple has the better deal they will get on their hardware. I don't know what will come, how long Apple's deal is with Intel, or anything else. I do remember Jobs saying that once the transition to OS X was complete then they would have options, and now we see the results of those options. OS X is and was origianally (early developers) billed as a "mobile" OS that could easily move to processors other than the PowerPC. Intel was one of the originally supported chips. I wouldn't doubt that Apple has other versions in one degree of completion or another for other chips as well. I aslo wouldnt be suprised if Apple keeps the PowerPC running along side of the Intel version. These "Internal" builds may not be full blown consumer level builds, but rather "proof of concept" builds that gives Apple "Options" in the future.
post #20 of 31
I'd go iMac G6, not iMac I6 or iMac G6 Intel.

And any new entertainment device would not be called a Mac.

As for iMac G6:
Admittedly, "G6" would not work as a reference to the chip itself anymore, because Intel and Centrino are such strong brands. But it would still be functional as a way to refer to a *generation* of iMacs.

This generation would still be defined by the the chip it runs on, but that is not what should be going to matter the average consumer most. To us, "G6" would rather be an indication of how up-to-date a computer is and what software runs on it.

A negative side effect of referring to Intel in the naming, could be that some people think that Macs run PC software, which they won't out of the box. That would lead to needless disappointments.
post #21 of 31
Quote:
Originally posted by Doxxic
...Admittedly, "G6" would not work as a reference to the chip itself anymore, because Intel and Centrino are such strong brands. But it would still be functional as a way to refer to a *generation* of iMacs. ...

You've convinced me. G6 is the way to go, no question. We can reinvent G6 to mean "6th Generation Mac": G1=68K, G2=PPC601/604, G3=PPC750, G4=Altivec, G5=970, G6=Intel x86.
post #22 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by cubist
You've convinced me. G6 is the way to go, no question. We can reinvent G6 to mean "6th Generation Mac": G1=68K, G2=PPC601/604, G3=PPC750, G4=Altivec, G5=970, G6=Intel x86.

Well, as a mere Apple consumer I completely disagree. A friend of mine at uni, a Mac convert told me he'd heard Apple wasn't going for the G6 anymore purely on the Intel rumour. Now, whatever the arguments on semantics and generations, for him - and I'd agree with him, inspite of the lack of G6 - 'G' is integraly associated with another chip, you think 'G' you think back compatible - so you buy software for G4 or G5 and you think it'll work: it will, be its not native.

Perhaps I've been brainwashed by AI hype but I'm excited by Apple's move to Intel (partly for the tragic reason that I'll be able to play Grand Prix Manager!) but also because it suggests an embrace with the mainstream, whilst maintaining Apple idelaism - or to be more precise, a move that nods further to all those possible Mac converts who are put off by price, performance (in all its guises) and who will be comforted by the Intel brand name.

Either its just an iBook, iMac, Powerbook etc or it needs to have an Intel demarcation.

Mike
post #23 of 31
Dare I say it...

"CoreMac"

There I said it. As procrastinated by the Mac's new friend: Paul Thurrott on hisInternet Nexus site.

/u1
post #24 of 31
I wonder if Steve Jobs ever reads these things just to laugh at the goofy speculation. Who cares what it is called, or if it has a sticker or not... in 6 months you all will buy one anyway ~ even if it does have a sticker.
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post #25 of 31
Quote:
Originally posted by debenm
I wonder if Steve Jobs ever reads these things just to laugh at the goofy speculation. Who cares what it is called, or if it has a sticker or not... in 6 months you all will buy one anyway ~ even if it does have a sticker.

Totally.

Who gives a crap about integrity? Bring on the advertising revenue!
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I wish developing great products was as easy as writing a check. If that were the case, then Microsoft would...
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post #26 of 31
Quote:
Originally posted by Doxxic
...
A negative side effect of referring to Intel in the naming, could be that some people think that Macs run PC software, which they won't out of the box. That would lead to needless disappointments.

This is a strong argument indeed. I've never thought of that.
It makes perfect sense (for Apple) to not promote *intel* too much,
just to avoid this kind of mess.
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post #27 of 31
Quote:
Originally posted by userone
Dare I say it...

"CoreMac"

There I said it. As procrastinated by the Mac's new friend: Paul Thurrott on hisInternet Nexus site.

/u1

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post #28 of 31


This may be of some interest?



and the corresponding verbage (so far);

USPTO MACTEL documents

Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #29 of 31
Quote:
Originally posted by icfireball
As far as OS 11, I don't think its ever going to happen. ... 2011 - 10.8 ... But I am a little befuddled as to what by then could be added to opperating systems. Most improvements I see are hardware, or software directly related to hardware outside of the next 3-5 years.

Well, outside of the obvious things which Mac OS X still is missing, like display scalability and complete configurability (like, being able to not have the dock at all), there is a lot which can be added. For example, support for distributed computing, so that jobs can be managed transparently across multiple computers. Transparent on-demand virtualization, so an application can think it's running in Windows when, in fact, only as much of Windows has been synthesized to support it. Remote desktops (on iPods?) with secure private tunneling. Built-in VOIP support, and routeable audio/video.

I hope that Apple will not simply keep bundling more applications, as Microsoft has been doing, without improving the OS functionality.

As for the versions, I suspect Apple will pull a "Solaris" and start calling the OS "Mac OS X 5", "Mac OS X 6", and so on. The "10." stuff will be forgotten.
post #30 of 31
I agree that G6 might be a good name for the Intel-based Macs, but IT WON'T HAPPEN, at least not at first.

There's a really simple and logical reason: They are going to update the consumer line with Intel first, leaving the G5 in the PowerMac lineup. You wouldn't want people thinking that the consumer products are more powerful or a full 'generation' ahead of the PowerMac.

In addition, it's not clear that the initial introduction of Intel chips will be a true 'generation' ahead of the G5, as the G5 was over the G4. Apple won't herald something as the 'next generation' if it doesn't have the performance to match.

NOW, think about this. The CONSUMER line is updated first with Intel. Consumer products are (for the most part) designated by the i preceding the product name i-Mac, i-Book. Seems to me that Apple has an easy way to use that i in the product name...

Keep calling the iMac the i-Mac. The iBook the i-Book. Eventually the PowerMac G5 becomes the PowerMac Duo. Or the entire product line up retains the existing names and Apple just begins using i1, or i6 for the processor. i comes after g in the alphabet, so it would be consistent.

Either way, the core product names won't change, but I suspect form factor/looks will to help consumers understand the 'difference' of the new systems. The whole idea of running Windows natively on a separate partition of the HD will be BIG for Apple. The final strike in welcoming the world to convert. Try us, if you don't like it you can always just use Windows...But you WILL like us.
post #31 of 31
Maybe Apple will adopt the new Intel branding of its chips.

I'd suspect that the powerbooks will get the dual core chips, and the iBooks the single cores. So, why not:

Powerbook Dual
iBook Solo

What do you think?

David
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