or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Other Discussion › AppleOutsider › PoliticalOutsider › 9/11 documentary: Loose Change
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

9/11 documentary: Loose Change

post #1 of 35
Thread Starter 
Has anyone seen the 9/11 documentary, Loose Change? I never believed in the 9/11 conspiracy theories until I saw this movie just the other day. This movie does a great job tying all the info and theories out there into one hour of entertainment.

Of course, there's a lot of stuff in the movie that is questionable. However, after seeing it, I couldn't help but feel as though the majority of attacks that happened on 9/11 are not what the government or our media said happened. Stuff like explosions in the WTC towers right before the plane crashed into it, to the fact that there is no wing damage from the 757 on the Pentagon, and no debris at the Shanksville, PA crater.

The film doesn't argue about what really happened on 9/11 or who did what. There is no way of really knowing that. All it does is present evidence and facts (lots) of why the events that transpired are in conflict of what the media and Bush admin. sold to us.

It isn't as good quality as the DVD, but the entire video is available on Google Video.
post #2 of 35
Haven't seen it and don't know if I can sit through it. But I read the book Perfect Soldiers over the holidays, and I really recommend it. It's about the 9/11 hijackers. The first half or so goes into detail about the lives of the lead hijackers, and the last part gives a detailed account of what they did in the lead-up to 9/11/2001. It's quite fascinating.
post #3 of 35
Reading the last reader review in BRussell's link should be a wake up call to any to deny the nature of the enemy and our need to destroy the enemy before he destroys us.
I will be ordering the book. Thanks for the tip.

From Amazon.com:


"Global War, November 1, 2005
Reviewer: Lover of Angels "Mujahid" (USA) - See all my reviews
When a Crusader writes a book about the 19 martyrs, the usual dumb mistakes about Islam that an internet search, or a fact-checker at his publishing house, should have detected will emerge: Muslims do not "sing at weddings" or any place else, since Islam forbids music; a mosque is not a church, etc. Still, Lover of Angels is glad to have Terry Mcdermott's PERFECT SOLDIERS in hand, if only relish stories of the the early days of the Commander-General Mohammed Atta, and learn more about the recruitment of the 15 mujahideen from the Land of the Two Holy Mosques.
The author is not a man of faith, and cannot understand why anyone would sell his soul to God. But, every Muslim's dream is to die as a shaheed (martyr). The 19 sought the Red Death (martyrdom)purely for the sake of pleasing Allah (All Praise is for Him), not out of rage, poverty or even politics, in a strict sense.Mcdermott should have immersed himself in a mosque or madrasa for a year, and then tried to fathom his subjects rejection of this world and total devotion to the Hereafter. "
Moe has left the building
Reply
Moe has left the building
Reply
post #4 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by Moe_in_Texas
Reading the last reader review in BRussell's link should be a wake up call to any to deny the nature of the enemy and our need to destroy the enemy before he destroys us.
I will be ordering the book. Thanks for the tip.

From Amazon.com:


"Global War, November 1, 2005
Reviewer: Lover of Angels "Mujahid" (USA) - See all my reviews
When a Crusader writes a book about the 19 martyrs, the usual dumb mistakes about Islam that an internet search, or a fact-checker at his publishing house, should have detected will emerge: Muslims do not "sing at weddings" or any place else, since Islam forbids music; a mosque is not a church, etc. Still, Lover of Angels is glad to have Terry Mcdermott's PERFECT SOLDIERS in hand, if only relish stories of the the early days of the Commander-General Mohammed Atta, and learn more about the recruitment of the 15 mujahideen from the Land of the Two Holy Mosques.
The author is not a man of faith, and cannot understand why anyone would sell his soul to God. But, every Muslim's dream is to die as a shaheed (martyr). The 19 sought the Red Death (martyrdom)purely for the sake of pleasing Allah (All Praise is for Him), not out of rage, poverty or even politics, in a strict sense.Mcdermott should have immersed himself in a mosque or madrasa for a year, and then tried to fathom his subjects rejection of this world and total devotion to the Hereafter. "


Religious zealots are always extreme no matter what their faith.


This is news and more reason to justify preemtive attacks?



Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
post #5 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by BRussell
Haven't seen it and don't know if I can sit through it.

You have raised, perhaps inadvertently, a most pertinant aspect about 9-11 and the aftermath: Most people would rather not hear about anything that raises any doubt, or punches any holes in the 'official conspiracy theory'. Most people, still in shock and anger, are more comfortable in denial. There are so many instances of this administration, or people close to it involved in corruption scandals; a 9-11 scandal on top of everything else would be just too much for most people to bear.

Quote:
But I read the book Perfect Soldiers over the holidays, and I really recommend it. It's about the 9/11 hijackers. The first half or so goes into detail about the lives of the lead hijackers, and the last part gives a detailed account of what they did in the lead-up to 9/11/2001. It's quite fascinating.

What is the source material for these guys' histories and activities leading up to 9-11? If its from official intelligence sources, it would follow that much of these "details" were known before, as well as after 9-11.

Is "Perfect Soldiers" talking about the people about whom FBI director Mueller referred when he said "the identity of several of the hijackers is in doubt"? Or those Arabs who were not listed on the official airline passenger manifests? Perhaps it was those Arabs whose remains never showed up in DNA tests etc? Which Mohamed Atta are they referring to?... the coke-snorting, gambling, womanizing, jewelry-wearing, hard-drinking Muslim fundamentalist Atta (?!!) who patronized strip clubs and hung out with CIA asset and flightschool owner Rudi Dekkers? Does it mention how Atta managed to board the plane Similarly, reports in Newsweek, the San Francisco Chronicle and the Wall Street Journal, at least six of the alleged "hijackers" visited the Las Vegas Strip, drinking , gambling, and doing what devout Muslim fanatics do in Las Vegas.

Does the book mention how these 19 middle eastern guys, (possessing verboten materials that would normally have raised flags with airport security) all managed to board planes within minutes of each other, unchallenged? Just one of these alleged people somehow boarding a commercial plane would be a serious breach of security: 19, all succeeding, stretches the bounds of credibility....

Does the book mention Saudi pilot Waleed Al Shehri , one at least six of the apparent hijackers, who had the remarkable ability to bilocate? He was at the controls of Flight 11 while attending a pilot training course in Morocco at the same time (!). AP reported that Al Shehri contacted the US Embassy in Morocco as soon as he realized his name was listed as "one of the 19".

Or perhaps the book refers to Ahmed al-Nami and Saeed al Ghamdi who were both interviewed by Dadid Harrison of Britain's (conservative) Daily Telegraph newpaper; they naturally were most surprised to learn of their demise aboard United Flight 93. Al-Nami was working as a supervisor for Saudi Airlines at the time of the attacks, and he said he "has never heard of Pennsylvania".

Perhaps "Perfect Soldiers" is referring to Mohand al Shehri, Salem al Hamzi and Abdul Aziz al Omari? These people at the time of 9-11 were all living in Saudi Arbia, according to the Saudi Embassy in Washington DC. Salem al Hamzi was living in the Saudi city of Yanbou where he worked at a petro-chemical facility. In the Daily Telegraph report, Al Omari, upon hearing of his death aboard AA Flight 11, "visited the US Consulate in Jeddah demanding an explanation regarding the FBI's claim that he was a dead hijacker".

I have seen "Loose Change", yes. Some of the material is questionable, For example the section on "what crashed into the Pentagon", but most has not been rebutted. Even if only one of the numerous problematic aspects with the official version listed in "Loose Change" can be disproven, it begs an explanation from the FBI/CIA/Bush Administration/Office of Special Plans/and the rest.

There will not be any more inquiries, or inquests. The very last thing that Bush and the Neocons wanted in the first place was an investigation. The pathetic Kean-Zelikow fiasco (aka "Independent" Commission) that came together after BushCorp balked for a year and a quarter, dismissed any evidence that didnt fit in with their pre-ordained theory. The 9-11 "Investigation" was the classic and definitive case of bad science.



I really should read this book, though. There is such a huge conflict of facts in this whole case. So much doesn't match, or make sense.
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
post #6 of 35
We all know that 911 was a plot fabricated in central Texas. The so-called terrorists were seen entering the airport in oversized 10-gallon hats and purchasing Nascar magazines in an airport gift shop. Two of the terrorists were briefly detained at the security point because of their huge, Texas-shaped belt buckles. Somewhere between security and boarding they changed into typical terrorist garb (whatever that is) Once on the airplanes, the terrorists were immediately noticed by the other passengers because few passengers board east coast planes smelling of mesquite and chewing tobacco. It is outrageous and shocking that this plot has not been exposed by the so-called mainstream media (which we all know is in the pocked of the neocon Bush folk). Everyone knows what happened. Why won't anyone speak?
Moe has left the building
Reply
Moe has left the building
Reply
post #7 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by Moe_in_Texas
We all know that 911 was a plot fabricated in central Texas. The so-called terrorists were seen entering the airport in oversized 10-gallon hats and purchasing Nascar magazines in an airport gift shop. Two of the terrorists were briefly detained at the security point because of their huge, Texas-shaped belt buckles. Somewhere between security and boarding they changed into typical terrorist garb (whatever that is) Once on the airplanes, the terrorists were immediately noticed by the other passengers because few passengers board east coast planes smelling of mesquite and chewing tobacco. It is outrageous and shocking that this plot has not been exposed by the so-called mainstream media (which we all know is in the pocked of the neocon Bush folk). Everyone knows what happened. Why won't anyone speak?

That makes as much sense as anything else you've said on the subject. A little funnier maybe.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
post #8 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by Moe_in_Texas
Reading the last reader review in BRussell's link should be a wake up call to any to deny the nature of the enemy and our need to destroy the enemy before he destroys us.
I will be ordering the book. Thanks for the tip.

I think you'll like it. You realize how it all started - mainly in Germany, where a bunch of Muslim men got involved with a group of radicals in a makeshift mosque, became ultra-focused on their religion and their perceived oppression by Jews and Americans, and ultimately went to Afghanistan to play jihadists.
post #9 of 35
A movie is being released called Flight 93, about the plane that crashed in PA due to passengers who fought the hijackers. Here's the trailer. Obviously they don't know exactly what happened, but they've been able to piece together enough of it that we know those people were heroes who saved a national monument and many more lives.
post #10 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by BRussell
A movie is being released called Flight 93, about the plane that crashed in PA due to passengers who fought the hijackers. Here's the trailer. Obviously they don't know exactly what happened, but they've been able to piece together enough of it that we know those people were heroes who saved a national monument and many more lives.

A documentary on television here in Japan (though it used pieces of documentaries from the States) suggested that some of the cel-phone calls came when the plane was over areas that had no cel phone access, thus they could not have been true. They even had a specialist go out in a plane and try to make contact over the same area... but he couldn't.

Who do you believe in all of this?

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply
post #11 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by Bergermeister
A documentary on television here in Japan (though it used pieces of documentaries from the States) suggested that some of the cel-phone calls came when the plane was over areas that had no cel phone access, thus they could not have been true. They even had a specialist go out in a plane and try to make contact over the same area... but he couldn't.

Who do you believe in all of this?

Just watched the movie, and they seem to suggest similar evidence about the fake phone calls.

It's nicely put together.

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply
post #12 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by Bergermeister
Just watched the movie, and they seem to suggest similar evidence about the fake phone calls.

It's nicely put together.

Are you talking about "Loose Change? Nicely put together? It's utter crap. Absolute irresponsible shit. They start out with these grainy videos of the planes hitting the building "see, didya see, the plane shot a missile just a fraction of a second before it hit the building!!" God.

And yeah, I'm sure they were fake phone calls set up by the CIA for no obvious reason, rather than human beings, scared to death, calling their families.
post #13 of 35
Asking questions is not irresponsible; it is the first step towards understanding. I saw this film as a question- or as a prod to makes us ask questions- into the truth of the story we have beeen sold. Whether I agree with it or not is another question.

Just like Oswald and Kennedy, too many people bought this story hook line and sinker too fast. [The Warren Report was almost hailed as the Bible of its day. In the mid-70's, however, Congress determined that in fact there had been a conspiracy (though they failed to elaborate).] Only time will tell what the true story is on this current one, but right now the current administration is not, in the opinion of many people, doing so well on credibility (WMD in Iraq for starters).

There is a question, too, about whether the US "set up" Pearl Harbor. It could be argued that US needed something to prod the very disinterested populace into the war and thus the entire fleet was sitting in one harbor when there was a war in theatre and three Japanese carriers had been missing for a long time and tensions between the countries had been rising. This is not to say that if this happened that it was wrong.

In the current case, perhaps the administration needed a catalyst to propel the country into a war-mode so that it could then attack Iraq. Who knows; it is a theory and one that could and should be discussed. Again, i am not saying that this would be right or wrong.

Discussion is an important thing and can lead to further understanding or reinterpreation of the past. If we all read the same texts, memorized the same facts and never questioned anything, life would be pretty dull and scary. The use of "what if..." is essential to education, creativity and is ingrained in our souls. If we cannot question, then our democracy has been lost.

About the film: grainier pictures than those have been used to make decisions that have impacted all of our lives in major ways. Also, check out the antics of the CIA over its history and you can understand why some people might believe that they had a hand in this.

I thought the way the film was put together was pretty interesting; I am currently working on several short videos and am always interested in the different ways people put their works together, whether I agree with them or not.

To balance the movie, I have ordered the book you suggested aboout the history of the hijackers.

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply
post #14 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by BRussell
A movie is being released called Flight 93, about the plane that crashed in PA due to passengers who fought the hijackers. Here's the trailer. Obviously they don't know exactly what happened, but they've been able to piece together enough of it that we know those people were heroes who saved a national monument and many more lives.

Some questions about Flight 93:

(1) Why was crash debris of Flight 93 so small with much of it spread out over a 5 mile swath, with one engine over half a mile from the eventual crash site? If they found heavy metallic debris from the plane so far away a major incident must have occurred in mid-flight to cause the plane to break up. Can anyone explain why magazines from that plane were found 20 miles away from the crash? Was it (a) shot down or (b) did a bomb explode on board the plane or (c) was there a cockpit fight between hijackers and passengers that caused the aircraft to execute such violent maneuvers that an engine detached itself?

(2) How come no plane parts or human bodies were found at the supposed crash site (s) of Flight 93?

(3) Why were the media or any reporters prohibited from taking close-up video or photos of the Flight 93 crash site?

(4) Why has the NTSB not released the results of its investigation into the crash?

(5) Can anyone explain why many ear- and eye witnesses, including workers of the road construction company New Enterprise saw or heard F-16 jets, when the government said that there were none in the area at the time of the crash?

(6) F-15 pilot Rick Gibney from the N. Dakota Air National Guard was awarded the Air Medal for "his heroic action in defending Washington DC". This story was reported in the local N. Dakota newspapers but surprisingly ignored by the national media, despite the 'lauded, heroic actions of the pilot'. Gibney was one of the pilots scrambled to challenge the allegedly hijacked Flight 93, which eventually crashed in Pennsylvania. Pilots do not get awarded medals for routine scrambles over the US mainland!

(7) Regarding the probablity of Flight 93 being shot down: Don Rumsfeld must have slipped up in this interview with Brigadier General James Marks aired on December 24, 2004.

Quote:
I think all of us have a sense if we imagine the kind of world we would face if the people who bombed the mess hall in Mosul, or the people who did the bombing in Spain, or the people who attacked the United States in New York, shot down the plane over Pennsylvania and attacked the Pentagon, the people who cut off peoples' heads on television to intimidate, to frighten -- indeed the word 'terrorized' is just that. Its purpose is to terrorize, to alter behavior, to make people be something other than that which they want to be..

In it, Rumsfeld is alluding to the flight being shot down, not by the US military but by "the terrorists", presumably on the ground. Why would they go to the trouble of hijacking a plane when it, according to the Defense Sec. was taken out by other means? Was Rummy lying deliberately, or is he getting senile, or is he getting his stories mixed up here?

(8.) What was the small white jet seen by numerous people performing unusual maneuvers exactly at the time of the Flight 93 crash? This was reported in several local newspapers.
http://www.flight93crash.com/second-...crash-site.htm

(9) The official story concerning Flight 93 was that it's target was either the White House or the Capitol in Washington DC. Flight 93 flew to the Midwest before turning around to fly toward Washington D.C. Had it reached D.C., it would have been airborne for over an hour and a half. Why did the alleged hijackers take such a long and tortuous cross country route, knowing that they would be challenged by the USAF, according to Standard Procedure? Did the alleged hijackers know that they wouldnt get intercepted, according to Standard Procedure? The odds of escaping interception with that plan would have be infinitesimal under Standard Procedure.

(10) The occupancy of Flight 93 was only 16% (!!). This is statistically almost unheard of for an East-West transcontinental flight on major airlines to and from major US cities at the start of a business day. The average occupancy of the four (usually packed) flights that morning was bizarrely only 23%.

(11) Seismic signals from by observatories at Soldier's Delight, MD, and Millersville, PA, recorded the impact time at 10:06:05, plus or minus 5 seconds, and Cleveland Air Traffic Control reported that they had lost radar contact with Flight 93 at 10:06. Why, then did the 9-11 "Commission" state that Flight 93 crashed at 10:03?

The list goes on and on....there are another 50 or so problems with the official version of Flight 93. None of them have either been refuted, or even addressed by the 9-11 "Independent" Commission. The point is this: If you look at every aspect of the "official story" about 9-11, there a long list of impossibilities, unlikelihoods, inconsistencies and absurdities.

Why the general cowardice?

Silence is complicity
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
post #15 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by BRussell
Are you talking about "Loose Change? Nicely put together? It's utter crap. Absolute irresponsible shit. They start out with these grainy videos of the planes hitting the building "see, didya see, the plane shot a missile just a fraction of a second before it hit the building!!" God.

And yeah, I'm sure they were fake phone calls set up by the CIA for no obvious reason, rather than human beings, scared to death, calling their families.

I would hope that your skepticism is even-handed.

The only 'concrete' evidence offered against bin Laden himself is a "grainy video" conveniently left lying around in a house in Jalalabad, Afghanistan after Northern Alliance forces moved in. Jalalabad is a large city of 150,000 people; is it not a tad convenient that this particular house was searched and they got lucky so quickly?

In the video, the alleged "bin Laden":

(a) has facial features than do not match the real bin Laden...the face is far fatter, the nose is wider, the proportions are all wrong.

(b) In this video "bin Laden" can be seen writing with his right hand, but the FBI describes bin Laden as being a left hander.

(c) In this video, "bin Laden" is wearing a heavy gold ring on on of his fingers. Islam forbids the wearing of jewelry. Isn't OBL supposed to be an Islamic fundamentalist?

(d) In this video, the translation offered by the White House is 'problematic' to put it mildly. http://dc.indymedia.org/newswire/display/16801

(e) some of the captions in the video attributed to "bin Laden" appear when the alleged "bin Laden" is eating, and not talking (!)

(f) In the video, the alleged "bin Laden" can't even correctly say the names of two of the alleged 'hijackers' that he supposedly personally chose, and appear on the FBI's website.

(g) the audio track on the tape has a high level of background noise suggesting it was recorded in an urban, or busy area, and not the remote locations or caves allegedly favored (by OBL).

(h) The translation of the "Osam"a tape has him stating that the "hijackers" did not know they were about to die, yet letters the FBI claim to have found written by the hijackers indicate the exact opposite.

If you feel the grainy video in Loose Change is questionable, then I would imagine that you would feel likewise about the US government's much ballyhooed "smoking gun" that points the finger at "OBL".
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
post #16 of 35
I thought I already explained all of this.
Moe has left the building
Reply
Moe has left the building
Reply
post #17 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by sammi jo
I would hope that your skepticism is even-handed.

I guess I'd say I use a Bayesian approach. I've never seen this bin Laden video, but we know that he is a radical Islamist who encouraged violence against the US. Other evidence linking him to violence against the US then becomes more plausible in that light. But I don't even particularly believe bin Laden was all that instrumental. He was more of a Chairman of the Board than a CEO - the CEO was Khalid Sheik Mohammed. Nor do I believe al Qaeda is an organized group with bin Laden at the top of a hierarchy.

The notion that these planes shot missiles into their targets a fraction of a second before impact simply makes no sense, nor was it the slightest bit apparent from the video. The dance beat going on while the slow motion video was repeatedly replayed didn't hypnotize me into seeing something that clearly wasn't there.
post #18 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by Moe_in_Texas
I thought I already explained all of this.

Oh, you did, you did. Repetition is the mother of learning.
'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
Reply
'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
Reply
post #19 of 35
Cheney and the Necons are absolute masters -- not only did they fool the entire world with these attacks let's not forget the very sneaky groundwork they laid in the 90's to cover their tracks.
  • 1998 Bombings of United States embassies in the East African capital cities of Dar es Salaam, Tanzania and Nairobi, Kenya.
  • 1993 World Trade Center bombing
  • 1996 Khobar Towers bombing in Saudi Arabia,
  • 2000 attack on the USS Cole in Yemen
Not only were they able to orchestrate this cover, they had the enormous task rigging not one, but two elections, creating fictional leaders of AQ, faking numerous broadcasts, and carrying out the Madrid and London attacks. All for Iraqi oil and a pipeline in Afghanistan so they could control a world-wide commodities market.

Fascinating.

Edit: Bush is Hitler®

Edited Edit: ...and the next time you guys want to tell me people learn by experience and not belief just re-read this thread.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #20 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
Cheney and the Necons are absolute masters -- not only did they fool the entire world with these attacks let's not forget the very sneaky groundwork they laid in the 90's to cover their tracks.[list][*]1998 Bombings of United States embassies in the East African capital cities of Dar es Salaam, Tanzania and Nairobi, Kenya.
  • 1993 World Trade Center bombing
  • 1996 Khobar Towers bombing in Saudi Arabia,
  • 2000 attack on the USS Cole in Yemen
Not only were they able to orchestrate this cover, they had the enormous task rigging not one, but two elections, creating fictional leaders of AQ, faking numerous broadcasts, and carrying out the Madrid and London attacks. All for Iraqi oil and a pipeline in Afghanistan so they could control a world-wide commodities market.

Fascinating.

Edit: Bush is Hitler®

Edited Edit: ...and the next time you guys want to tell me people learn by experience and not belief just re-read this thread.

None of these incidents you mention had the same impact as 9/11. Not even close. Sofar it's been a few bee stings...
How all of a sudden were these people able to bring down 3 buildings in the middle of New York and fly a plane into the Pentagon?
It just isn't their style it takes a lot more and a lot more can go wrong to pull of 9/11 than getting on a train and blowing yourself up.
If Bin Laden pulled this of he must be super intelligent or US security must be super stupid.

Have we ever figured out what kind of psycho terror it takes to brainwash someone to end their life for the cause? Have we ever tried to find out what the cause actually is? We hate America doesn't seem to cut it. Muslims do wear Nike, baseball caps, cell phones and seem to like Caddilacs and Hummers.

Hitler became powerful because he made himself out to be the liberator, uniter, the defender of the German cause, "strong" leader and he also was "good for business", do you see some parallels? And he could talk. So no Bush is not Hitler. Let's not forget George's Grand Daddy Prescott who possibly had gay sex with Adolf.

Let's imagine the world decides to join Bin Laden. Will this stop terrorism?

Is it a coincident that profits from oil shot up so much that anybody in oil could rebuild the trade center plus some with just a small percentage of that profit.?

Dubai has 7 star hotels now...????

Bush talks to god for advice...? He must have gotten some bad info from him...?????
post #21 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by jamac
Have we ever figured out what kind of psycho terror it takes to brainwash someone to end their life for the cause?

Yes. Post Korean war the US codified and researched all brainwashing techniques as a result of their soldiers experience.

The data has been upheld ever since by the experiences of Aum, Waco, Jonestown and Heaven's gate as well as myriad other cults.

What you had on 911 was just another cult doing what cults do.

What is far more interesting (to me anyway) is the process of how and why that has been covered up and re-packaged as the non-existent 'al Qaeda'.

That is the conspiracy - it is the only conspiracy and the only necessary one: how the actions of a cult have been transmuted and falsely marketed as a global terrorist outfit that has declared war on YOU.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #22 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by jamac
None of these incidents you mention had the same impact as 9/11. Not even close. Sofar it's been a few bee stings...
How all of a sudden were these people able to bring down 3 buildings in the middle of New York and fly a plane into the Pentagon?
It just isn't their style it takes a lot more and a lot more can go wrong to pull of 9/11 than getting on a train and blowing yourself up.
If Bin Laden pulled this of he must be super intelligent or US security must be super stupid.

Check Popular Mechanics' website for the details on the buildings.

As for being 'supersmart', I think you meant to type 'dirt simple' or 'extremely patient' -- and while brilliant in its execution, if you have read The Art of War or A Book of Five Rings the attacks were hardly original.

This has very little to do with OBL, it has everything to do with the growing pains of Islam, and it's going to have to be dealt with sooner or later. Islam has, for quite some time, needed to stop pointing fingers and turn in on itself for some much needed introspection --- and that's exactly what is happening in Iraq. Although on the right side of history, guys like Bush may not know what they are doing -- that may be the job of a Wolfowitz or Rice.

Either dabbubbubbubbubbua is the devil himself or he is doing something truly historic.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #23 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Yes. Post Korean war the US codified and researched all brainwashing techniques as a result of their soldiers experience.

The data has been upheld ever since by the experiences of Aum, Waco, Jonestown and Heaven's gate as well as myriad other cults.

What you had on 911 was just another cult doing what cults do.

What is far more interesting (to me anyway) is the process of how and why that has been covered up and re-packaged as the non-existent 'al Qaeda'.

That is the conspiracy - it is the only conspiracy and the only necessary one: how the actions of a cult have been transmuted and falsely marketed as a global terrorist outfit that has declared war on YOU.

These cults are in no way comparable to what's going on here. We had terrorism for ever. I myself survived a bombing in Vienna, Austria it was a Palestinian bomb. At least we knew what they wanted.
You are right the real terror is not the act itself it is the fear that the marketing machine instills. I am not afraid. I've been to Islamic countries I made friends, I played music with people and they made fresh hash for me. Great memories....
post #24 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by jamac
These cults are in no way comparable to what's going on here.

Why not?

Think about it - what is the difference between 911 and the Aum intended gas attack on the Tokyo subway? If that had succeeded it would probably have killed more people.

You agree there is marketing but then you judge according to the postulates of that marketing. The fact is there has been no link to any subsequent attack to a coherent enemy although the powers that be have constantly tried - to all intents and purposes, and as far as we know - 911 was the work of an isolated group who are now dead (if you discount the many reports of the hijackers being still alive which imo only show that the names given to the 19 are fake and that we do not know who they were).

They have not linked Iraq, they have not linked the insurgents or the Iranians. They have not linked Madrid (perhaps in the US public mind but certainly not here in Spain) and they have not linked London which was in no way the work of an organized terrorist cell but the work of some home-grown wannabees.

They have not linked these things because there is no link.

yet another fake OBL or al Qaeda video won't change that and they wouldn't need to be faked if there was a real entity.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #25 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by BRussell
I guess I'd say I use a Bayesian approach. I've never seen this bin Laden video, but we know that he is a radical Islamist who encouraged violence against the US. Other evidence linking him to violence against the US then becomes more plausible in that light. But I don't even particularly believe bin Laden was all that instrumental. He was more of a Chairman of the Board than a CEO - the CEO was Khalid Sheik Mohammed. Nor do I believe al Qaeda is an organized group with bin Laden at the top of a hierarchy.

The whole point re. the 'bin Laden' video was that it was the smoking gun that the Administration needed. There had to be some 'hard evidence' to convince the public that the 9-11 attacks were the brainchild of OBL. That video was all over the US media for days on end, on every mainstream channel on Prime Time. It was featured as a lead in every newspaper in the land. It was discussed on talk radio networks. OBL was thus indelibly connected with those attacks in the minds of the vast majority of the American public.

The overwhelming likelihood that the video is faked, (possibly manufactured by the 'art department' (!) of one or other of the agencies?) is yet another aspect of 9-11 that the US public would prefer not to know, or acknowledge. The garden has been neatly trimmed and watered, and along comes an unruly dog and spoils it all.

Regarding Osama bin Laden: He obviously had something to do with the plot, but more to do with "being in the loop" rather than in an "executive" position. Several incidents point to this: in June 2001, Agence France Presse reported that OBL went into hospital in Dubai for kidney dialysis treatment, and while there was visited by CIA field agents who arrived by US Navy helicopter, talked with him for some *hours*, and left, without detaining him, when he was supposedly one of the "most wanted" men in the US.

Then CBS reported in March 2002 that on Sept. 10, 2001, the night before the attacks, OBL entered a military hospital in Pakistan which was "integrated by resident US military and intelligence advisers, which routinely report to Washington. If this report is correct, this suggests that the whereabouts of Osama bin Laden on September 11 were known to the Bush Administration." http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CBS203A.html

Some weeks after the invasion of Afghanistan started, OBL was cornered by US troops and elements of the Northern Alliance...but against all the odds, he slipped the net. There has been a $25 million reward on his capture, dead or alive, now for almost 4.5 years. Nobody has come forward. President Bush even commented in September 2002, verbatim:
Quote:
Well, as I say, we haven't heard much from him. And I wouldn't necessarily say he's at the center of any command structure. And, again, I don't know where he is. I -- I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him.

http://www.factcheck.org/article281.html

Finally, it's well known that OBL has been a longtime CIA asset ever since that agency furnished the Islamist Afghan mujahideen with $billions in weapons and funding to counter the Sovie occupation of that country. OBL most probably still has many friendly contacts within the agency.

[highly speculative] the visits, (and lack of arrest in the months leading up to 9-11) was more to do with "briefings" on the forthcoming attacks, and the deal offered to him (in return for becoming the worlds #1 pariah) was a new identity. He didn't have to change his faith, and it's amazing what modern high tech plastic surgery can achieve. The specter of OBL remains out there on the loose, somewhere on the Afghanistan/Pakistan border, and his presence still conjures up visions of fear for the US public, maintaining the carefully cultured bogeyman image that keeps the US taxpayer coughing up endlessly in the defense sector's gravy train aka the 'war on terror'.

OBL has provided the Bush Administration and the Neocons an excellent 'return on their investment'. He remains one of their greatest assets.[/highly speculative]
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
post #26 of 35
Brussell, you just don't 'understand' how simple history is.

I just got done reading how simple 1864's Battle of the Wilderness was; it was all very, very, very simple. I mean --really -- those battles weren't decided by silly, overly complicated things like manpower, troop movements, weather, terrain, and insignificant trivia like intuition, and endless instances of serendipity and opportunity -- Sheridan, Lee, Grant, and Meade all had their super-duper secret operatives just running about doing 'things'. If you look back through any conflict, from David stoning Goliath to the Tet offensive, you will see the all-knowing eye of "The Man" piercing the Fog of War. <-- (A really good movie BTW).


Get with the program -- it's all so simple!

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #27 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
What you had on 911 was just another cult doing what cults do.

What is far more interesting (to me anyway) is the process of how and why that has been covered up and re-packaged as the non-existent 'al Qaeda'.

That is the conspiracy - it is the only conspiracy and the only necessary one: how the actions of a cult have been transmuted and falsely marketed as a global terrorist outfit that has declared war on YOU.

I think you're right that the 9/11 hijackers were basically a death cult. But there are some differences between Waco/Jonestown and this, mainly in the political nature of the Islamists. They are motivated largely by their desire to create Islamic states and destroy or harm what they perceive as anti-Islamic states like the US and Israel. I'm not aware of the other cults having attacked other countries like the Islamists did on 9/11. Aum is the only one I know of that initiated any violence of any kind against outsiders, and I really don't understand the issues surrounding why they did it, so I can't comment on it.

In addition, violent Islamists aren't a cult by the classic definition: They aren't a small insulated group that lives on a compound together. They come from a large number of countries and find commonalties with other Islamic extremists all over the world. How do you reconcile those differences with your cult approach?
post #28 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by BRussell
I think you're right that the 9/11 hijackers were basically a death cult. But there are some differences between Waco/Jonestown and this, mainly in the political nature of the Islamists. They are motivated largely by their desire to create Islamic states and destroy or harm what they perceive as anti-Islamic states like the US and Israel.

But how do you know they are political?

We only think this because it is what we've been told by our 'experts'.

If you look at, say, Atta's behaviour in the days leading up to 911 it indicates anything but a religious/politico agenda. Cocaine binges, call girls, alcohol abuse - I know some people have no trouble squaring that with an Islamist perosnality but personally I do.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #29 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
But how do you know they are political?

We only think this because it is what we've been told by our 'experts'.

Come on segovius. We know they're political because of their targets. We know Islamic extremism through their very public statements.

Quote:
If you look at, say, Atta's behaviour in the days leading up to 911 it indicates anything but a religious/politico agenda. Cocaine binges, call girls, alcohol abuse - I know some people have no trouble squaring that with an Islamist perosnality but personally I do.

I simply don't believe those reports. They're inconsistent with everything else we know about him, and they're based on transient eyewitnesses. Much of the nonsense about 9/11 is based on transient eyewitnesses, like much of this Loose Change. If there's one thing we know about eyewitness reports, it's that they're frequently wrong. They're the single largest reason for false convictions, for example. So, after it was learned that some of the hijackers met in Vegas, some stripper says she lap danced for Atta while he was snorting coke. Sorry, but if that behavior is inconsistent with everything else we know about him (e.g., from this book Perfect Soldiers, which talks to people who knew him well and over a long period of time) then I don't find it very plausible.
post #30 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by BRussell
Come on segovius. We know they're political because of their targets. We know Islamic extremism through their very public statements.

But, my dear, dear, Brussell, those public statements are CIA creations. Ask segovious -- zarqawi [IIRC] doesn't even exist!

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #31 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
But, my dear, dear, Brussell, those public statements are CIA creations. Ask segovious -- zarqawi [IIRC] doesn't even exist!

DMZ: if he didn't exist they would have to create him.

What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #32 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
But, my dear, dear, Brussell, those public statements are CIA creations. Ask segovious -- zarqawi [IIRC] doesn't even exist!

Oh stop it, you're just encouraging him.
post #33 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
DMZ: if he didn't exist they would have to create him.


Hey! Hey! Hey!
The next thing you know I'll have people after me for believing in imaginary creatures.

Imagine that.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #34 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by BRussell
Come on segovius. We know they're political because of their targets. We know Islamic extremism through their very public statements.

I simply don't believe those reports. They're inconsistent with everything else we know about him, and they're based on transient eyewitnesses. Much of the nonsense about 9/11 is based on transient eyewitnesses, like much of this Loose Change. If there's one thing we know about eyewitness reports, it's that they're frequently wrong. They're the single largest reason for false convictions, for example. So, after it was learned that some of the hijackers met in Vegas, some stripper says she lap danced for Atta while he was snorting coke. Sorry, but if that behavior is inconsistent with everything else we know about him (e.g., from this book Perfect Soldiers, which talks to people who knew him well and over a long period of time) then I don't find it very plausible.

It goes without saying that his live-in girlfriend Amanda Keller probably knows Atta a whole lot better than most other folk. They lived together for two months before Keller knicked him out.

This is extracted from Daniel Hopsicker's "Welcome To Terrorland". He is one of the few people who interviewed people who knew Atta and his partying ways, behavior that was inconsistent with that of a Muslim fundamentalist:

Quote:
From the interview with Keller: "TheTop Ten Things You Never Knew About Mohamed Atta."

10: Intimidated Witness #1: Atta's American girlfriend.

Mohamed Atta had an American girlfriend with whom he lived for two months in Venice, FL., a lingerie model named Amanda Keller. You haven't heard her story because she was intimidated into silence by the FBI. In the aftermath of the attack she spoke only a dozen words to the press: "I can't really discuss anything. I'm afraid I'll get in trouble."

9: Mohamed Atta, Beastie Boys fan.

Atta often listened to them non-stop. "One time I got mad cause he broke one of my knick-knacks, so I snapped his CD's in half," said Amanda Keller, his erstwhile American girlfriend. "I broke all of his CD's, cause they drove me crazy, he played the 'Beastie Boys' nonstop."

In the aftermath of the argument, Atta told her why he was such a big fan. "He told me about this girl he'd dated in France, that had his son," said Keller. "He didn't tell anyone else about that, for some reason he felt he could spill his guts to me. His son was like nine, he said. He said his son was the reason he liked the Beastie Boys so much, cause they were his son's favorite band."

8. Mohamed Atta, Islamic Party Animal

"Atta and his crew were always flush with lots and lots of money," said Stephanie Frederickson, a 50-year old housewife and foster mother who with her husband lived right next door to Atta's apartment. "Those guys were all really party animals." During their brief time together, Amanda and Atta went out almost every night, she said, and were part of a social scene at clubs like Margarita Maggie's in Sarasota. "When we went out we would meet pilots from Africa, Germany, and there were always lots of Arabs."

In fact, Atta was a heavy drinker, snorted coke, was a stylish dresser and wore enough expensive gold jewelry that a waitress in Venice thought he might be in the Mob.

7. Mohamed Atta liked pork chops.

"Islamic fundamentalist" Mohamed Atta loved pork chops, according to former girlfriend Amanda Keller. In fact, she said this was 'fanatical Islamo-fascist' Atta's one endearing trait. Devout Muslims don't eat pork, do they?

6. Mohamed Atta didn't come to the U.S. to learn to fly.

Atta was already a licensed pilot when he arrived in the US., with pilot's licenses from half a dozen countries, and while at Huffman Aviation was not treated like a 'newbie' pilot, but accorded the privileges of a flight instructor.

And instead of attending just one flight school, Huffman Aviation, as the FBI states, his path took him through at least three Florida flight programs, not including his visit to a flight school in Oklahoma and a stint at the first flight school he attended in the U.S., whose name, oddly enough, remains unknown.

If Atta's real reason for being in Florida wasn't to go to flight school... "why then was he here?" That facts this basic remain unknown illustrates the extent of the official blackout on information about 9/11.

5. Mohamed Atta's email list included people working for U.S. Defense contractors. One, for instance, worked for Canadian firm Virtual Prototypes, which helped develop the avionics for F-15, F-22 and B-2.. Mohamed Atta's kept an email list, showing him to have been in contact with employee's of US Defense contractors.

Atta's emails are reprinted in "Welcome to Terrorland's 40-page Appendix, filled with never before seen photos and documents about the terrorist conspiracy.

4. Mohamed Atta attended the International Officer's School at Maxwell Air force Base, in Montgomery, Alabama. Witnesses there recall him having been introduced around at an officers' club party. Mohamed Atta and at least five other of the nineteen terrorists participated in military training at secure military facilities in the United States. A 'Mohamed Atta' attended International Officers School at Maxwell Air Force Base in Montgomery, Alabama. Others of the terrorists studied in exchange programs at US Defense installations like the Defense Language Institute in Monterrey, CA.

3. Mohamed Atta got dumped by his American girlfriend.

"The day I stopped liking him," Keller says today, "was when I saw him for the first time out at the pool. He was wearing a lime-green Speedo. He had a flanky ass." He had also embarrassed her in a night club, which turned out to be the beginning of the end. "We were at Margarita Maggie's in Sarasota near the quay," Amanda stated. "Angelina, Olivia, Timothy, Juergen, Sabrina, Mohamed, Wolfgang...they were all there."

"And Mohamed, like a dumbass was standing on top of a speaker dancing. The man could not dance to save his life, he was real stiff, just kind of shaking, doing the 'Roxbury head bob' thing. He just embarrassed me instantly when we got there, and I just pretended I didn't know him."

2. Mohamed Atta was in Venice, Florida at least three times during the last six weeks of his life. The FBI is covering this fact up, perhaps because it will lead to questions about the identities of those who Atta had gone to the retirement community on Florida's Gulf Coast to meet, which included "Magic Dutch Boy" Rudi Dekkers.

The #1 Thing You Never Knew About Mohamed Atta:

1. Mohamed Atta was a psychopath.

"He told me he'd get even with me," Amanda Keller said, after she threw him out of the apartment they shared. "He said, 'You will be sorry for this.'"

He revenged himself by disemboweling her pet cat and and dismembering its half-dozen baby kittens, then strewing the pieces around her apartment to be discovered when she returned home from work after a long night at the "lingerie model" escort service in Sarasota she worked for to the apartment that was now hers alone.

Amanda kept a pet dog, and several cats as well, one of whom had just had a litter, she informed us haltingly. There were six adorable kittens. But when she flicked on the lights in her apartment, she didn't hear any noises coming from them, and she couldn't see any of the kittens...

Voice cracking with horror, she told us what she saw when she turned on the light: pieces of dead kittens-kitten parts-strewn all over the living room. "She(the mother cat) had had a litter of six. Only one survived...The mother was gutted on my kitchen table. And there were little baby cat parts all over the place."

"The only ones to survive were my little dog that hid under the couch, and my Siamese who sat on top of the fridge behind the cookie jar. My friend Page came in with me, and helped me pick up little kitten parts that were all over the apartment."

In an apartment directly across the street from the Venice Airport, the American girl who had just spurned Atta was on her hands and knees picking up kitten parts. Amanda Keller moved out of the apartment that same day, and never returned.

Numerous descriptions of Atta have painted him as menacing, dark, glaring, sometimes just wooden. We even heard speculation, from people who had been in his presence in Venice, that they suspected he might have been brainwashed.

But after listening to Amanda Keller's story, which we will see fully corroborated by credible witnesses, we can answer one of the open questions about the 9/11 attack: Why was Mohamed Atta chosen to commit one of history's most unspeakable crimes?

Because he could. He was capable of it. Not just capable... he was perfect for the job. He does not deserve the 'heroic suicide' mantle placed on his shoulders by aggrieved Arab radicals. Any self-respecting Islamic fundamentalist should be ashamed that he sprang from their number. Atta wasn't a hero. He belonged in a psych-ward. Mohamed Atta was a psychopath. A Kitten Killer. We're in Jeffrey Dahmer territory here.

And this about the Sandpiper Apartments manager, Charlie Grapentine: He is a grizzled Korean vet in his early 60's. The FBI did not take note of his recollections any more warmly than they had those of Stephanie Frederickson. "Atta always carried a fanny pack around his waist," Grapentine told us. "I remember Amanda once telling him that she needed some new clothes, and he reached in and peeled off a few hundreds from a thick roll of cash he had stuffed inside the fanny pack." Grapentine turns grim on the subject of the FBI's treatment. "They called me a liar, and told me to keep my mouth shut," stated the ex-marine through clenched teeth. "Nobody likes to hear that: that they didn't see something they know they saw." Keller, Frederickson, and Grapentine, are just three examples of the apparently officially-sanctioned silencing of eyewitnesses in Florida to the terrorist's activities. (extracted from Daniel Hopsicker article)

Incidentally, who knows how reliable the witnesses in Perfect Soldiers are? Naturally it goes without saying that anyone who knew Atta would be under enormous pressure to toe the official line. (The FBI threatened and silenced witnesses). Are these Perfect Soldiers winesses even talking about the same Mohamed Atta anyway? There are two, perhaps three different people answering to, or described as "Mohamed Atta" involved in the 9-11 story.

Furthermore here is another wild Mohamed Atta inconsistency which the 9-11 Commission failed to address:

Mohamed Atta's rental car was found abandoned at Boston's Logan Airport....but the the photo which identifies Atta as one of the alleged 19 was taken at Portland Jetport when he was about to board a commuter flight TO Logan. Mohamed Atta could not have been in two places at once, some 100 miles apart, on the same morning, and catching a flight towards the place where he left his car.

This is the car in which FBI agents "found" material that pointed to flying planes and Islamic paraphernalia, including the Koran, which he supposedly "abandoned" on the day of his demise (!). How did the FBI find all the alleged terrorists' cars at the airports so rapidly? The capacity of the Logan Airport parking lot is some 8000 vehicles. Why would the FBI find the car so soon, in an airport he didnt park his car at? And why would he abandon his precious religious artifacts, such as copies of the Koran, together with the flight plans etc?

If anyone can explain this absurdity, please go ahead. I call BS, yet again.

This type of inconsistency/impossibility is endemic within the Commission's report. If an aspect of the story fails to fit the pre-ordained conclusion, ignore it. As of yet, nobody has explained this impossibility.

Another link here: http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0405/S00110.htm
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
post #35 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by sammi jo
If anyone can explain this absurdity, please go ahead. I call BS, yet again.

Well, we're still trying to jibe Christ-like behavior with Pat Robertson's -- these things happen.


(and don't forget, the Al-Gore-rhythm to pick out turrurrurrurrurrurrursssstss worked on 9/11 -- but it only meant that Atta's bagage went on the plane with him.)

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: PoliticalOutsider
AppleInsider › Forums › Other Discussion › AppleOutsider › PoliticalOutsider › 9/11 documentary: Loose Change