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Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD (2006) - Page 26

post #1001 of 2106
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
Can you beat your mother in debate? My mother is far too slippery. When my grandfather was alive it was fun to watch them argue because parents never like losing arguments to their children.

I'm actually pretty happy to see Sony's BD-Recorder at $750. That's going to put pricing pressure on HD DVD Recorders as well as any other BD-Recorder.

I now know what Sony's AVCHD camcorders cost and offer. More incentive for me to cut my silly spending and get my HDTV.

It's definitely challenging, but she is so cut throat. She gets so worked up when the topic is politics, I fear sometimes she may have a heart attack she gets so heated. She gets it from my Grandfather, talk about a man who's not afraid to tell you what is on his mind!

Anhow, on another note here is a bit of good news as well...

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/multime...718235111.html

Sony PlayStation 3 Production Has Begun Reports.
Asustek Computer Ships PlayStation 3 Consoles
Quote:
Category: Multimedia

by Anton Shilov

[ 07/18/2006 | 11:52 PM ]

Asustek Computer, one of the worlds largest producers of computer components, has reportedly begun to ship Sony PlayStation 3 game consoles to Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. The fact that the consoles are being manufactured means that the hardware specs had been finalized and the launch will take place in mid-November.

The Chinese-language Apple Daily and Commercial Times newspaper reported late on Tuesday that Asustek Computer started shipments of PlayStation 3 (PS3) game consoles in small volume in the beginning of July, according to DigiTimes web-site. According to a report, about 200 thousand component sets were shipped to Asus in June, which means that the company is in position to build 200 thousand game consoles. It is also said that in July the Taiwanese builder will receive higher amount of component sets for the PS3, while in September and October the company will get more than one million [component] sets.

Sony promised to have 2 million PlayStation 3 consoles available during the launch window and ship 4 million PS3s worldwide by the end of 2006. By March 2007 the company plans to supply 6 million game consoles to the market.

Foxconn Electronics is also projected to build the new generation game consoles for Sony. However, the news-paper did not unveil any shipment schedules for the company, claiming that the company will start assembly operations when demand rises. Given that the PS3 is not on sale just now, the demand may only rise until after the launch.

The two versions of the PlayStation 3 game consoles for $499 and $599 will be launched on 11th of November in Japan and on the 17th of November in Australia, Europe, U.S. and other regions.
post #1002 of 2106
Thread Starter 
Just to add to the above...

http://www.homemediaretailing.com/index.cfm?sec_id=2

PS3 Sales Expected to Skyrocket
Quote:
Author: ERIK GRUENWEDEL
Posted: July 17, 2006

Strong projected sales of Sony Corp.s pending PlayStation 3 video game console equipped with a Blu-ray Disc drive are expected to underscore upwards of $2 billion in revenue this year in the blue laser disc technology market.

Anticipated sales of blue laser players, game consoles, PC drives and related media are expected to top $28 billion by 2010, according to technology research firm Santa Clara Consulting Group.

Currently, the market seems to be preoccupied with the format battle between Blu-ray and HD DVD technologies. What is overlooked is the fact that a market is developing, and the opportunity is huge, said David Bunzel, managing director of SCCG.

By 2010, blue laser disc player sales would total $4 billion and related movies contributing $3 billion in sales. Blue laser game consoles (PS3) would contribute $6 billion in sales, and related games $10 billion in sales. Blue laser PC drives would generate $4 billion in revenue, and blue laser blank media $400 million in sales.

High-definition content will be a central focus for companies in the consumer electronic, gaming, entertainment and PC industries for the next five years, Bunzel said. Blue laser disc technology is a critical component to the development of these markets.
post #1003 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
Can you beat your mother in debate? My mother is far too slippery. When my grandfather was alive it was fun to watch them argue because parents never like losing arguments to their children.

When mine loses she merely adjusts reality to make the winner wrong!
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post #1004 of 2106
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Blackcat
When mine loses she merely adjusts reality to make the winner wrong!

LOL! Sounds like mine!
post #1005 of 2106
what was this thread about again?
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post #1006 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by slughead
what was this thread about again?

HD DVD's dominance over Blu-Ray
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post #1007 of 2106
Thread Starter 
Samsung's Blu-ray Player Reportedly Has Faulty Chip

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh...aulty_Chip/144

Quote:
After suffering weeks of negative buzz over the picture quality of its first-generation Blu-ray disc player, Samsung now says an internal scaler chip may be to blame.

As reported earlier today by A/V magazine The Perfect Vision, Sony exec Don Eklund first brought the issue to Samsung's attention after noticing that the image quality produced by Samsung's BD-P1000 player "...did not match the quality of the master tapes from which the Blu-ray titles were encoded."

Samsung engineers later determined that "the noise-reduction circuit in the player's Genesis scaler chip was enabled, causing the picture to soften significantly."

Though Samsung has yet to issue any formal statements regarding the apparent faulty chip, the company's senior vice president of marketing for its Audio and Video Products Group Jim Sanduski confirmed to The Perfect Vision that the company is working to fix the problem on future shipments of the BD-P1000, and also plans to issue a firmware upgrade to correct the problem on current players.

"Samsung is currently working to revise the default settings on the noise-reduction circuit in the Genesis scaler chip to sharpen the picture," Sanduski is quoting as saying. "All future Samsung BD-P1000 production will have this revision and we are working to develop a firmware update for existing product."

As we've previously reported, some early adopters have experienced poor picture quality when using the recommended HDMI output on the Samsung player. Switching to component outputs has improved the image quality for these users, which could be a result of the component outputs bypassing the scaling chip.

Though the launch of rival format HD DVD was not without its own glitches, reviews of that format's first-gen hardware and software have been largely positive. If a repaired chip in the Samsung BD-P1000 markedly improves picture quality from the deck, it could help close the perceived gap in quality that currently exists between the two formats.

We will keep you posted on the latest developments in this story as it continues to unfold.

Ahh. So maybe some of the negatives we've been hearing don't have to do entirely to the choice of codec in MPEG2 or the Blu-ray disc themselves, but a little glitch from a chip in the Samsung.

I for one, would like to hear some revised reviews of Blu-ray movies, once the firmware update is in place. It should make for an interesting comparison.

Moreover, it'll be interesting to see forthcoming players from Blu-ray backers that will support HDMI 1.3 (with more colors and HD sound over the HDMI) and how that will come into play in the quality of Blu-ray movies. And lets not forget about the availability of DL movies this fall and how this should aid in the quality as well.
post #1008 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
HD DVD's dominance over Blu-Ray

I thought blu-ray was winning..

hrm.. I'll check back when we get to page 40
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post #1009 of 2106
Thread Starter 
Toast to Offer Blu-ray Support in Macs...

http://www.macworld.com/news/2006/07/24/toast/index.php
Quote:
Toast to offer Blu-ray support for Macs
By Peter Cohen

Roxio on Tuesday will announce support for Blu-ray Disc with Toast, its popular Macintosh CD and DVD burning software. The new release of Toast will be bundled with Blu-ray drives coming to retailers soon.

The software will enable Mac users who purchase Blu-ray drives to store as much as 50GB of data on a BD-R (recordable) or BD-RE (rewritable) disc, according to Roxio. Those drives will be coming to market later this calendar quarter. Adam Fingerman, director of product management for Roxio, told Macworld that several companies have spoken with or made arrangements with Roxio to bundle the Blu-ray-enabled version of Toast.

The new update to Toast will, at least at first, be available exclusively to users who buy the new BD drives, and wont offer any additional functionality or features for non-Blu-ray drive users. Blu-ray drive users will receive the full Toast Titanium product, not a Lite version.

Left to its own devices, Mac OS X v10.4 Tiger doesnt know what to do with Blu-ray Discs, so Toast will include Toast Dynamic Writing, software that lets users mount Blu-ray discs and write to the them the same way they would a removable storage device. Whats more, the data isnt cached on the hard disk first so you neednt worry about allocating 50GB of disk space before you can burn Blu-ray media.
post #1010 of 2106
Thread Starter 
NVIDIA CEO backs Blu-ray all the Way

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=18528
Quote:
"You cannot announce a game console for the next ten years and not have Blu-Ray" - Jen-Hsun Huang

NVIDIA's CEO has stated his confidence in the success of Sony's PlayStation 3 console, telling San Jose Mercury News journalist Dean Takahashi that the company has "backed the right horse" in the next-gen race.

Commenting on the company's decision to provide graphics processors for Sony, having previously worked with Microsoft to supply chips for the original Xbox, Huang stated: "You can't build chips for all the game consoles. That's not possible. No one has enough extraneous resources around to build chips for all the game consoles."

When asked if the company had "backed the right horse" in the latest console race, Huang was extremely confident in NVIDIA's commitment to Sony, adding: "I don't think that working with Sony is wrong. There is no way that is going to be wrong."

The CEO reaffirmed his belief in the success of Sony's Blu-Ray media format - in spite of the resultant high cost of the console compared to Microsoft's Xbox 360 or the Nintendo Wii - suggesting that the inclusion of Blu-Ray was integral to the hardware lifespan of the next-generation machine.

"I'm not sure how Microsoft is going to do in this transition," he stated. "They are clever and they will figure out a way. I'll make a prediction that Xbox 360 can't possibly be a DVD-only device by Christmas of next year.

"The important thing is you cannot announce a game console for the next ten years and not have Blu-Ray. It's an impossible scenario," Huang continued.

"If I'm going to buy a next-generation game console, I'm going to buy a console with next-generation media. It's going to last 10 years."
post #1011 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by marzetta7
"You cannot announce a game console for the next ten years and not have Blu-Ray" - Jen-Hsun Huang

10 years? Don't consoles usually have a turn around of 4-5?

Quote:
Huang stated: "You can't build chips for all the game consoles. That's not possible. No one has enough extraneous resources around to build chips for all the game consoles."

Isn't IBM doing just that, producing all of the "CPUs" for the next gen consoles?

Quote:
"They are clever and they will figure out a way. I'll make a prediction that Xbox 360 can't possibly be a DVD-only device by Christmas of next year."

They can't do that. It would alienate all of their original customers. when game makes target the 360, do they target a DVD player, or the "new-disk-format" player. Consoles aren't moving targets like consumer PCs. This would never work.

Quote:
"The important thing is you cannot announce a game console for the next ten years and not have Blu-Ray. It's an impossible scenario," Huang continued.

"If I'm going to buy a next-generation game console, I'm going to buy a console with next-generation media. It's going to last 10 years."

And good luck finding games in 10 years for it. The next-next-gen will be out, and this guy will be spouting the same stuff then. No console can last 10 years, with no development. Lets see, 10 years ago the PlayStation was available. So according to this guy, he wouldn't have bought a PS2, he would still be hanging on to his trusty PlasyStation.

Ya, this guy has a lot to do with the impending format war. The way nvidia goes means nothing. Its as if the memory manufacture for the PS3 came out saying he backed blu-ray and thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Sorry, but this guy sounds like an idiot. 10 years???
post #1012 of 2106
I respect Huangs talent and expertise in graphics but he's sounding a wee bit like a cheerleader here.

The PS3 or any game console for that matter, success will be determined by game and gameplay. He really hasn't explained why Blu-Ray is a factor that it impossible to ignore. Thus he did come off sounding a bit ignorant.
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post #1013 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by kupan787
Isn't IBM doing just that, producing all of the "CPUs" for the next gen consoles?

Producing maybe, but they didn't design them on their own, which I suspect was his point. He's talking about GPUs, his specialty. While the 360 uses a custom PowerPC, IBM was only part of a consortium of companies that designed the Cell processor for the PS3, ironically including Toshiba, the big backer of HD DVD. Graphics chips aren't designed by alliances and his point is that neither Nvidia nor ATI had the resources to design graphics chips for all the consoles. So ATI designed the chips for the 360 and the Wii while Nvidia worked on the PS3.

Quote:
They can't do that. It would alienate all of their original customers. when game makes target the 360, do they target a DVD player, or the "new-disk-format" player. Consoles aren't moving targets like consumer PCs. This would never work.

Why can't they? It's not an either/or proposition. He's saying they can't stay strictly with DVDs. But is there any reason why game makers wouldn't be able to target both? Say the main version for HD drives and a downgraded version on the flipside for plain DVD drives.

Quote:
And good luck finding games in 10 years for it. The next-next-gen will be out, and this guy will be spouting the same stuff then. No console can last 10 years, with no development. Lets see, 10 years ago the PlayStation was available. So according to this guy, he wouldn't have bought a PS2, he would still be hanging on to his trusty PlasyStation.

Ya, this guy has a lot to do with the impending format war. The way nvidia goes means nothing. Its as if the memory manufacture for the PS3 came out saying he backed blu-ray and thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Sorry, but this guy sounds like an idiot. 10 years???

Ease up. You apparently have some kind of bug up your butt where this guy is concerned. Have you considered that maybe what he was saying is that you won't be able to introduce another new console within the next ten years without Blu-ray, rather than saying the PS3 is the console for the next 10 years? That in 10 years, there will probably be another technology to supplant Blu-ray? Cut the man so slack. English is not his first language, but he still managed to get both bachelors and masters degrees in American universities. Are you as accomplished as this "idiot"? You're also wrong about the GPU having nothing to do with the optical drive. Nvidia designs its graphics chips to provide hardware decoding for the HD formats.
post #1014 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by kupan787
10 years? Don't consoles usually have a turn around of 4-5?

The SNES was around 13 years and games were produced for 10 and the PS had a similar life span. Sony has only just stopped manufacturing them so it's likely the PS3 will have a lifetime of 10+ years, even if a replacement appears 5 years down the line.

Finally keep in mind when the PS2 was first released virtually all the games were released on CDs. These days they are almost all DVDs. Similarly in 5 years time I expect game producers will be glad for the extra capacity of Blu-Ray, if you give it to them they will use it.
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post #1015 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by Telomar
The SNES was around 13 years and games were produced for 10 and the PS had a similar life span. Sony has only just stopped manufacturing them so it's likely the PS3 will have a lifetime of 10+ years, even if a replacement appears 5 years down the line.

But when was the last time you could buy a new first-party or third-party "quality" title for the PS1? And I don't mean going to game stop and picking up a 6 year old game. I mean when was the last new games made? When the new system comes out, resources are put behind it. How much active XBOX development is going on today (and we are only 8 months or so after the release). I just think that by saying a console will last 10 years based on media choice, that he is expecting games to be produced for 10 years. Or else, what does it matter once the games are no longer made.

Quote:
Finally keep in mind when the PS2 was first released virtually all the games were released on CDs. These days they are almost all DVDs. Similarly in 5 years time I expect game producers will be glad for the extra capacity of Blu-Ray, if you give it to them they will use it.

But how do we know that Blu-ray won't be the CD of gaming consoles (short lived as a medium between cartridges and DVDs)? What if the next-next-gen (in 5-6 years) have games all shipping on flash drives? Or hot-swapable 2.5" hard drives? Blu-ray isn't going to be here forever, something new will come along.

And the other thing to consider. How many games get made for both consoles? 70%? 75% 80%? A developer isn't likely to create a game targeting Blu-Ray, and then go in and strip out a bunch of content for the Xbox release. They will make a game that works on the xbox (within its size constraints), and then put it on the PS3.
post #1016 of 2106
//Blu-ray isn't going to be here forever//

but then that is true of most things... including humans... but we know THEY arnt worth the investment
post #1017 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by kupan787
[BAnd the other thing to consider. How many games get made for both consoles? 70%? 75% 80%? A developer isn't likely to create a game targeting Blu-Ray, and then go in and strip out a bunch of content for the Xbox release. They will make a game that works on the xbox (within its size constraints), and then put it on the PS3. [/B]

I was under the impression this happened all the time. Wether it be for PC, with skeleton installs, vs full, or games made for consoles, and slightly lesser versions for portable players. Is this not the case?
post #1018 of 2106
I've never seen anyone so crazy mad about a damn optical disc... Why do you care so much hmurchinson?

For a shiny 5" disc, you're willing to attack and berate other people... interesting...
post #1019 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by werk5000
I've never seen anyone so crazy mad about a damn optical disc... Why do you care so much hmurchinson?

For a shiny 5" disc, you're willing to attack and berate other people... interesting...

I'm just a person that likes to take things at face value and make my own judgements. The benefit of messageboards like AI is that I can openly post my judgements on particular electronic gear and we as an online community can discuss the merits or lackthereof of various products.

With the whole HD DVD vs Blu-Ray fiasco I noticed some disturbing trends. I'll highlight some of them.

1. The DVD Forum attempted to give us one format. Anyone who had product the submit to become the next DVD was encouraged to apply. Toshiba's AOD disc ended up winning because it met producers desire for a HD disc that can hold a full 2 hour movie w/extras. Sony never submitted Blu-Ray but instead organized a coup of sorts along with Matsushita and the large Korean companies (LG, Samsung). If we're discussing why there's a format war in the first place Sony is definitely the reason.

2. Both formats easily hold 4 hours of movies with audio. This covers %95 of all movie distribution yet I was consistently being told that 50GB is going to give me better quality than 30GB. No...it'll give more time but the quality depends on the bitrate.

3. Sony initially wanted Blu-Ray to be MPEG2 only and after some cajoling they added VC-1 and AVC. Toshiba had always planned to use the new codecs because MPEG2 wouldn't give them the quality nor time they needed on 30GB discs. MPEG2 would have negated any real difference in disc capacity because MPEG2 like to play above 25Mbps.

4. Cost- If we're not talking about subsidized hardware/software it's clear that HD DVD is the more inexpensive format to make. The HD DVD disc structure is the same as DVD. The OPU has a very close Numerical Aperture so that backwards compatability with DVD was assured. This made sense to me the lens assembly can be much cheaper and the discs can be manufactured on retrofitted pressing lines or a new line can be added that can do HD DVD and DVD-9. A nice perservation of legacy support and hardware.


I won't blather on and bore people. The crux of the matter is really seperating the wheat from the chaff. The questions to ask ourselves is "does the benefits of Blu-Ray outweigh the increase in price?" I looked at what was happening and I decided that it did not.

The context of my discussion has always been movie distribution thus I'm not swayed by carrots like 8-layer discs and 200GB. I need stuff that has concrete deliverables by xmas 2007 for consideration.

Sometimes I tend to debate quite aggressively but I welcome ANYONE to explain why my logic regarding the platform war is incorrect. Make no bones about it I will own both platforms but I'm VERY impressed with the execution of HD DVD and the thought put into its design and featureset. There is a backing reason for everything I state. I was supporting HD DVD before it shipped and a bunch of people jumped on the bandwagon. I'm glad I stuck to my guns on this one. I feel both formats will co-exist for some time but reports of Blu-Ray slaughtering HD DVD were obviously wishful thinking.
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post #1020 of 2106
Thread Starter 
Quote:
]Originally posted by hmurchison

Sometimes I tend to debate quite aggressively but I welcome ANYONE to explain why my logic regarding the platform war is incorrect. Make no bones about it I will own both platforms but I'm VERY impressed with the execution of HD DVD and the thought put into its design and featureset. There is a backing reason for everything I state. I was supporting HD DVD before it shipped and a bunch of people jumped on the bandwagon. I'm glad I stuck to my guns on this one. I feel both formats will co-exist for some time but reports of Blu-Ray slaughtering HD DVD were obviously wishful thinking.

I'm your huckleberry.

I think it is wishful thinking that only after a month of being out that Blu-ray won't be slaughtering HD DVD come October when the likes of Philips, Pioneer, and Pasnasonic join the foray. Not to mention the X-factor, the PS3 which will do quite well in squashing the competition. Time will tell, but the wishful thinking I read is in the above post.


Quote:
With the whole HD DVD vs Blu-Ray fiasco I noticed some disturbing trends. I'll highlight some of them.

1. The DVD Forum attempted to give us one format. Anyone who had product the submit to become the next DVD was encouraged to apply. Toshiba's AOD disc ended up winning because it met producers desire for a HD disc that can hold a full 2 hour movie w/extras. Sony never submitted Blu-Ray but instead organized a coup of sorts along with Matsushita and the large Korean companies (LG, Samsung). If we're discussing why there's a format war in the first place Sony is definitely the reason.

This logic is so askew, I don't know where to begin, but I'll give it a whirl. Sony, Panasonic, Philips, Pioneer and others of the BDA who support Blu-ray exclusively are all a part of the DVD Forum, but chose to create what you call a coup in the form of the BDA when Toshiba and Intel decided to change the way votes were counted within the DVD Forum to pass off their own format when all the Blu-ray supporters were noticely absent--which was supposed to count as a vote for "no." So, to imply that Toshiba's AOD disc ended up winning the DVD Forum's vote "because it met producers desire for HD disc" is misleading in every way. Besides, if it met all "producers desire for HD disc" then why did so many CE manufacturers, IT companies, and other software companies defect to the BDA in the first place? Doesn't make sense when you look at this in a realistic and logical fashion.

Also, Sony isn't to blame for this format war as you so try to weakly conclude. There is equal blame to go around both on the HD DVD side as well as the Blu-ray side which is comprised of much more than just Sony--a point I will continue to repeat when you attempt to paint Blu-ray as a one pony show.
Quote:
2. Both formats easily hold 4 hours of movies with audio. This covers %95 of all movie distribution yet I was consistently being told that 50GB is going to give me better quality than 30GB. No...it'll give more time but the quality depends on the bitrate.

"Easily hold 4 hours," for HD DVD heh? From my understanding, a good portion of HD DVD titles are already very, very close in maxing out in their space using the most advanced codec, and we haven't even seen the epic titles come out that will be over 3 hours just for the video. I just waiting for, "well, they'll just have to come out on multiple discs" excuse you'll probably deliver. At least with Blu-ray, 50GB disce will be here in the fall, and this ought not be an issue.
Quote:
3. Sony initially wanted Blu-Ray to be MPEG2 only and after some cajoling they added VC-1 and AVC. Toshiba had always planned to use the new codecs because MPEG2 wouldn't give them the quality nor time they needed on 30GB discs. MPEG2 would have negated any real difference in disc capacity because MPEG2 like to play above 25Mbps.

Blu-ray always kept the door open in terms of what codecs being used and/or other features like MMC. Any statements to the contrary or simply supposition by you. Besides, your entire point here is moot, seeing in how Blu-ray does support MPEG4/H.264/AVC or VC-1 or MPEG2. It is up to the studios as to what codec will be used, so stop trying to discredit and isolate Sony for anything and everything Blu-ray, especially for points that have no bearing on what is being currently supported from the format.
Quote:
4. Cost- If we're not talking about subsidized hardware/software it's clear that HD DVD is the more inexpensive format to make. The HD DVD disc structure is the same as DVD. The OPU has a very close Numerical Aperture so that backwards compatability with DVD was assured. This made sense to me the lens assembly can be much cheaper and the discs can be manufactured on retrofitted pressing lines or a new line can be added that can do HD DVD and DVD-9. A nice perservation of legacy support and hardware.

Preservation of legacy support and hardware is on Blu-ray side as well (supports DVD\\CD) so I don't see your point here. As far as cost goes, I and a lot of others don't care if manufacturers incur extra cost as long as disc are the same price to the end consumer, which they are and which is the important thing.
Quote:
I won't blather on and bore people. The crux of the matter is really seperating the wheat from the chaff. The questions to ask ourselves is "does the benefits of Blu-Ray outweigh the increase in price?" I looked at what was happening and I decided that it did not.

What increase in price? Discs cost the same. Price of hardware is currently not, but that will change in 3 months. Soooo, are you telling me because Toshiba came out with a $499 subsidized player a couple of months before Sony releases their $499 subsidized player with much more capability in an early adoption market, this warrants allegiance to a format that has less benefits? What you assume about price in regards to Blu-ray hardware is that it will always be higher than HD DVD, which is just untrue.

Your argument has merit only in the short-term, but considering we are in an early adoption market as it pertains to everything HD, and that the economies of scale are in Blu-ray's favor, and that the majority of Hollywood is in Blu-ray's favor, the next coming months will provide ample time for HD DVD's slaghter to come to fruition still.
post #1021 of 2106
Well Doc Holliday how are you doing lunger? <Tombstone reference>

:P

How the votes were counted is inconsequential of Blu-Ray was never submitted . Had Toshiba lost the vote Blu-Ray still would not have been the blessed format. It was never there for vote.

As for space. I'm constantly suprised to see that there is no correlation between size and overall quality in HD DVD. Serenity is one of the smaller films. ATL is a single layer HD DVD layere Combo disc and folks over on AVS are raving about the quality. Clearly VC-1 cuts the muster when applied to current high quality masters. I expect Blu-Ray to have a similar improvement.

If it was up to the studios to choose the codec.
Then why is Warner using MPEG2 for the same movies they shipped in VC-1 on HD DVD

No preservation of legacy hardware isn't support in the player but the ability to utilize the press for legacy production. You buy a BD ROM press you can't turn around and start blasting out regular DVDs.

As for cost there simply is no empirical proof suggesting the notion that Blu-Ray is as cheap as HD DVD and that is reflected in the myriad of $999 or more home players as well as the lack of 50GB discs at launch and delays in players. Clearly the BDA was behind more than what people imagined and creating high yields of DL discs is problematic. Economies of scale helps both companies. The Soc can be the same. The blue laser diodes can be the same. The only difference is the optical technology really and HD DVD has the "clear" advantage there with a cheaper OPU structure.

Again nothing I've said her can be countered so effectively that it warrants any dreams about a Blu-Ray white wash. I welcome anyone to try though because that's the spirit of debate.
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post #1022 of 2106
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
[B]Well Doc Holliday how are you doing lunger? <Tombstone reference>

:P

Ya like that, heh? I knew I could count on you to pick up on that one.
post #1023 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by marzetta7
Ya like that, heh? I knew I could count on you to pick up on that one.

Hey bud on a lighter note what do you think will be your first Blu-Ray player a PS3 for standalone? I'm torn I'm thinking that it might be safer to avoid the PS3 because the last time I was doing online gaming I was hooked like a junkie. I'm not sure my 30 something body can handle those 2am frag sessions anymore.

I'm pretty excited for early next year. Once I get my Sammy 1080p (not etched in stone I will look at other brands come purchase time) and I'm moved in to my new place (roomate is getting married) I'm ready to rock. By then netflix is going to have a damn good selection of HD DVD and Blu-Ray movies. I'll probably have both players by June 2007 hopefully running into a AV Receiver that has two HDMI inputs.

Next up will be a HD camcorder but I may have to wait a bit. I'm loving this HD stuff man
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post #1024 of 2106
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
Hey bud on a lighter note what do you think will be your first Blu-Ray player a PS3 for standalone? I'm torn I'm thinking that it might be safer to avoid the PS3 because the last time I was doing online gaming I was hooked like a junkie. I'm not sure my 30 something body can handle those 2am frag sessions anymore.

I'm pretty excited for early next year. Once I get my Sammy 1080p (not etched in stone I will look at other brands come purchase time) and I'm moved in to my new place (roomate is getting married) I'm ready to rock. By then netflix is going to have a damn good selection of HD DVD and Blu-Ray movies. I'll probably have both players by June 2007 hopefully running into a AV Receiver that has two HDMI inputs.

Next up will be a HD camcorder but I may have to wait a bit. I'm loving this HD stuff man

I've got three boys, and well, let's just say their itching to play some PS3 games...Ok Dad is too. So, the PS3 will be my hardware of choice for both games and HD movies.

Problem too is, I'm waiting for 1080P sets too come down in price as well. I can't tell you how long I've been waiting for true 1920 X 1080 progressive goodness. All this time I've been walking into BestBuys, CircuitCities, etc. and seeing these 1024 X 768 sets blown up on 45' screens and them calling them HD...robbery of the less informed I guess. I've been telling family and friends to just wait till the true HD sets come, and finally...it seems they're here.

I think truly, this year is HD DVD's and Blu-ray's baby steps, it'll be interesting to see how they duke it out in 2007. Exciting times ahead. 8)
post #1025 of 2106
Thread Starter 
Also, speaking of PS3...Just ran into this video over at IGN for you Star Wars fans. Take a look at the pre-vis of the new Star Wars: Force Unleashed coming to PS3...

http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/823/823668/vids_1.html

If it looks anything like the pre-vis, that'll be freakin sweet.
post #1026 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by marzetta7
Also, speaking of PS3...Just ran into this video over at IGN for you Star Wars fans. Take a look at the pre-vis of the new Star Wars: Force Unleashed coming to PS3...

http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/823/823668/vids_1.html

If it looks anything like the pre-vis, that'll be freakin sweet.

that looks nice

but check out Half-Life 2 on 360


Portals


http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/8...67/vids_1.html
post #1027 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by marzetta7
I've got three boys, and well, let's just say their itching to play some PS3 games...Ok Dad is too. So, the PS3 will be my hardware of choice for both games and HD movies.

Problem too is, I'm waiting for 1080P sets too come down in price as well. I can't tell you how long I've been waiting for true 1920 X 1080 progressive goodness. All this time I've been walking into BestBuys, CircuitCities, etc. and seeing these 1024 X 768 sets blown up on 45' screens and them calling them HD...robbery of the less informed I guess. I've been telling family and friends to just wait till the true HD sets come, and finally...it seems they're here.

I think truly, this year is HD DVD's and Blu-ray's baby steps, it'll be interesting to see how they duke it out in 2007. Exciting times ahead. 8)

Wow 3 boys yeah I'd be looking at a PS3 then too. My son just turned 4 this week so he's not really going to be into gaming for another couple of years. Finally we are seeing HD sets coming that don't cost your firstborn. Next year I'll decide between a 50 or 56" HDTV that has to support 1080p

In the next 5yrs I'll be looking for a dedicated Home Theatre room and a front projector that does 1080p.

man you guys should NOT have showed me those vids. My current gf who'll be my wife soon enough isn't the biggest fan of games. I'm going to have to do one hell of a sales job to get both an xbox and ps3 into the home
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post #1028 of 2106
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Elixir
that looks nice

but check out Half-Life 2 on 360


Portals


http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/8...67/vids_1.html

That does looks sweet. Half-Life 2 will be on the PS3 as well though,...

http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/743/743925/vids_1.html

I don't know if the Star Wars: Force Unleashed game will be released on the 360 though. I've tried to see if it will be, but so far I've come up empty. If anyone sees that it will (be released for the 360), let us know.
post #1029 of 2106
Thread Starter 
Fox's Dunn Bullish On DVD and Blu-ray

http://www.homemediaretailing.com/index.cfm?sec_id=2
Quote:
Fox's Dunn Bullish On DVD and Blu-ray

Mike Dunn, worldwide president of 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment, has been with the studio for nearly 20 years. He remains a strong believer in packaged media, notably the next-generation format Blu-ray Disc. Mindful of burgeoning digital distribution, Dunn believes the medium is in its infancy and that the focus should remain on filmed entertainments cash cow: DVD.

As previously done with other key executives, Home Media Retailing asked Dunn to elaborate on packaged medias durability and where he sees growth potential, among other issues.

HMR: What effect has the maturation of the DVD industry had on your business?

Dunn: Were at 80% DVD market penetration in the United States, and weve reached this point in record time. It is one of the most successful consumer electronics products of all time and, at $25 billion, home entertainment remains one of the biggest consumer categories for all classes of retail trade.

Overall, it has become a product-driven business, meaning that a key growth driver for us this year is the incredible lineup of new theatrical releases from our studio. Weve saved Ice Age: The Meltdown for the critical holiday season. Also in the fourth quarter is X-Men: The Last Stand at $233 million and The Devil Wears Prada heading over $100 million.

There are certain niches such as TV DVD and, for Fox in particular, inspirational or faith-based titles that are driving growth. For example, the faith business has been very successful for us, with more than $100 million in revenue in the past two years. And TV DVD, which is still the fastest-growing segment of the business, will gain 8% to 12% this year, with consumer spending well over $2 billion. As a leader in [TV DVD], we expect our business to grow significantly.

And, a real ace in our pocket is our new relationship with MGM, which will provide a steady stream of new release and catalog titles. Its an exciting time, and were very bullish on the business.

HMR: Has the strong global box office season this year shored up the theatrical distribution food chain?

Dunn: This year, the studios and Fox in particular have been successful at making films that are attracting a worldwide audience, with the total business finishing up 7% to 10%. A strong theatrical business this summer is going to echo right to the fourth quarter in DVD. The box office sets the bar for DVD and the value of a film through all windows of distribution. For most movies, DVD is the profit driver.

HMR: How does Blu-ray fit in a download world? Without a unified format, is there a possibility Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD could become the next UMD?

Dunn: First of all, the format war is really only going on in the press. Come the late fourth quarter, starting in November, Blu-ray is going to be showing huge numbers. The early adopter is going Blu-ray, and I think it will be readily apparent to that crucial second tier of consumers that Blu-ray is the obvious choice.

It really is an easy argument to make. Right from the start, Blu-ray is going to be in consoles, computers and video games. Youve got 170 companies involved, many of which are among the most trusted consumer brands, along with every major motion picture company but one. The penetration of Blu-ray is going to be in the millions of households by early 2007, compared to less than 100,000 households for HD DVD. And, it will penetrate faster than DVD did going from zero to 10 million households like a rocket. Once the delta between the two formats begins to widen like that early on, it becomes a Blu-ray no-brainer for the consumer.

As for digital downloading, it is at its very beginning stages. There is a long way to go before the download world leaks into the DVD business. That, too, is going to be an issue in the press but not in the marketplace. I think packaged media is pretty safe for the next 10 years.

HMR: As it has with theatrical, does an ever-increasing percentage of a films DVD sales come from abroad?

Dunn: Home entertainment is a worldwide business. The household penetration rates are north of 50% in all of the developed countries. It is a very significant marketplace and a very complicated one because there are different levels of piracy and competition in each territory. There are roughly 300 million people in the United States and nearly 6 billion in the rest of the world. Our business isnt 50-50 yet, but thats our goal. Weve structured our company to aggressively drive sales in every market. Its a well-oiled machine that gives us a true competitive advantage.

HMR: Do the studios have a control on piracy overseas?

Dunn: Piracy is like a rash. You have to fight it, fight it and fight it. There is not one solution to piracy; there are multiple solutions. It is an everyday competitor that we are attacking in a variety of ways. This studio is mobilized to meet this challenge on every front, every day.

HMR: How important is it to market DVD to alternative retail outlets (supermarkets, Starbucks, convenience stores, etc.) compared to mass merchants such as Target, Best Buy, Wal-Mart and Costco?

Dunn: I still like the early Coca-Cola strategy: be an arms length from a consumers need. Simply, the more ubiquitous the distribution, the better you serve the consumer. We are definitely increasing our distribution base.

In the last year alone, weve opened 3,000 new doors, Christian bookstores, that were serving not only our faith-based fare but also appropriate all-audience, family and kids titles.

The consumer dynamics in this country continue to evolve, and we are really pushing into high-end stores where people have money.

HMR: Is Fox interested in working with Starbucks to distribute titles? Dunn: I dont have much to say about that. I believe Starbucks has talked with everybody in town. There are different levels of interest and different projects among the studios. Starbucks clearly attracts an upscale consumer with a certain level of taste, and that is very attractive.

HMR: What kind of a second half of 2006 can we expect in home video?

Dunn: We see a growth level of about 5% compared to last year. The strength of the product is really solid and complementary to the consumer. For instance, this year there are three very strong family movies Ice Age: The Meltdown, Cars and Over the Hedge compared to one last year, Madagascar. There was no Devil Wears Prada last year with a female-skewing demo yet also appealing to men. The moviegoing audience is responding. Exit surveys are telling us that people like the movies they see not only ours, but also some of our competitors, too. Simply, better movies make for a better DVD market.
post #1030 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by marzetta7
That does looks sweet. Half-Life 2 will be on the PS3 as well though,...


yeah but for 200 dollars more.
post #1031 of 2106
Fox hasn't even shipped one Blu-Ray title yet right? How can Dunn sit and talk about the War with "any" credibiliy?

We tend to forget that Xbox360 user will have low cost HD DVD options as well.

We'll see how things turn out. I'm just a bit tired of the conjecture based on the PS3. Everone I know that is a PS2 user or just generally interested in game consoles HATES the PS3 pricing.
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post #1032 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
We'll see how things turn out. I'm just a bit tired of the conjecture based on the PS3. Everone I know that is a PS2 user or just generally interested in game consoles HATES the PS3 pricing.

Everyone I know who is a game console user is going to buy a PS3.

Our anecdotes! They're conflicting! One of them must define the truth!

Personally, I see both formats as roughly the same, but HD DVD hardware seems to be more forward-looking in that the LED's are smaller.

I don't want another betamax. I remember the DVD-RAM in my AGP Graphics G4 Powermac.

And one more thing: why do HD DVDs cost so much?!? $30 for a movie? Are you kidding me? I always thought $20 was too much.
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post #1033 of 2106
Best Buy is charging more for HD DVD than anyone. I'm posting this from the Tacoma Compusa and they have Phantom of the Opera, The Last Samurai, Millon Dollar Baby and another title for $19.95

The Blu-Ray titles here are $24.95. Amazon has half of the HD-DVD titles for under $20 as well.

I think that a lot of gamers are going to buy a PS3 but I wouldn't expect these people to be high movie purchasers. Games are expensive enough without adding $25 dollar movies to the total. I'd expect gamers to be bigger renters of movies than purchasers. We'll see though. It should be interesting.
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post #1034 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by slughead
Everyone I know who is a game console user is going to buy a PS3.



and exactly what does that prove?
post #1035 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by Elixir
and exactly what does that prove?

The PS3 will sell out at launch. The question is will it continue to sell after launch, and all the fanboys have their system. I think the casual gamer, going to buy a next gen console in Feburary/March, will see the PS3 ($499), Xbox 360 (probably $250 after price drop around PS3 launch), and Wii ($250), and be deciding between the later two. I really don't see the PS3 being the "deciding factor" in this movie war. It is still very much up in the air at this point.

On a side note, I was with a friend at a local Best Buy the other day (they had 3 blu-ray players and 2 hd-dvd players for sale in store). She is fairly tech savvy, but not up on the latest in this format war. She owns a 51" HDTV, and knows teh difference between standard def, dvd, and hdtv. I showed her the Samsung blu-ray demo and the Toshiba hd-dvd demo. After seeing both, and then the prices, she asked why one was twice as much when they look the same. Then she was looking at movie selection (about 8 titles for blu-ray, and 20 or so for HD-DVD), and she was even more confused at the price difference. She almost pulled the trigger and bought an HD-DVD player right there, but said she wanted to wait until there were HD-DVDs at blockbuster before she made her purchase.
post #1036 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
Best Buy is charging more for HD DVD than anyone.

It always amazes me how many suckers there are out there that continue to purchase from Worst Buy and keep them in business. I guess a good name counts for a lot in the marketplace.
post #1037 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by Kolchak
It always amazes me how many suckers there are out there that continue to purchase from Worst Buy and keep them in business. I guess a good name counts for a lot in the marketplace.


and where do you purchase tech? best buy is everywhere
post #1038 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by Elixir
and where do you purchase tech? best buy is everywhere

Amazon, Froogle, yahoo shopping
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post #1039 of 2106
Again, don't buy this junk. Blu-ray and HD-DVD players are just a compilation of cheap plastics and electronics that probably cost about 10-20 bucks per player. The whole thing is a marketing scam. They created two standards on purpose, to get a lot of media attention and hype.

In the end there's no reason to buy this junk, just wait for HD movies on demand from iTunes. Blu-ray and HD-DVD players can't even be upgraded they're like paper plates that you'll toss for the next non-upgradable piece of hardware. With iTunes, you can download software updates and always experience the latest and greatest.

I bet you all went out and wasted your money on the best typewritter you could buy right before the PC took off and are kicking yourself for doing it.
post #1040 of 2106
Thread Starter 
LG Scraps Plans for Hybrid Blu-ray/HD DVD player

http://www.cepro.com/news/editorial/14360.html
Quote:
LG Electronics, the one-time DVD peace-maker, has scuttled plans for a combination Blu-ray/HD-DVD player that was planned for launch this fall. According to Bob Perry, VP of sales and channel marketing who outlined product plans at the company's 2006 Summer Line Show this week in New York, LG remains part of the Blu-ray camp and will make a product announcement later in the year.

The road to high-def DVD has been a long one for LG, when the company announced last November that it would roll out a Blu-ray player, the BD199, in Q2 of this year. Back then, Perry said, "We're putting a stake in the ground to bring some sanity to this continuing battle."

In March of this year, however, LG declared in a memo to dealers, "In light of uncertainty in this early stage of the market for pre-recorded high-definition optical discs, we have decided not to introduce the BD199 as originally planned for this spring."

Rather, the company would produce a hybrid Blu-ray/HD-DVD solution to appease all comers. Such a thing would make sense for a company that already builds HD-DVD players for its OEM customers.

But it was not to be, as Perry announced a few days ago. No word on when an LG-branded Blu-ray deck may ship in the U.S.

In other LG news, Perry reviewed industry trends driving the market in the transition to digital content including the accelerated transition to HDTV, strong flat-panel TV growth and shifts in screen size preferences. For the first time, he said, LCD and plasma reached price parity at the 42-inch size with fast-dropping prices in LCD. He sees 42-inch flat-panel TVs selling for between $1,700-$2,600 during the second half of 2006 and 50-inch plasmas ringing up between $2,000-$3,000.

LG's contribution will include a 47-inch LCD TV, the 47LB1DA ($4,000), which ships next month with CableCard capability and dual HDMI inputs. The company also showed an impressive 60-inch 1080p plasma ($5,900) that boasts a 7000:1 contrast ratio. The 60-inch plasma, with two HDMI inputs, will ship to stores in September.

In addition, LG has announced a line of 2 megapixel LCD HDTVs with built-in 250 GB hard drives and PVR capability. The 1080p-capable TVs, a 37- and 42-incher (37LB2DR, 42LB2DR), round out LG's other 1080p offerings in 47- and 55-inch models. The products, which offer 6,000:1 contrast ratios, will roll out first in Korea, and then hit the U.S. and Europe in Q3. The company says the TVs will cost only 10% more than their 720p counterparts.

Yet another manufacturer joining in Blu-ray exclusivity.

I've read the posts above from those who think the PS3 is not going to be a factor in the current format war, and while I think this as illogical and shortsighted, if you choose to ignore that impact, surely you will see it from the likes of all these CE manufacturers who are all exclusive to Blu-ray--Sony, Panasonic, Philips, Sharp, Pioneer, and now LG exclusively--and IT manufacturers (HP, Dell, & Apple).

As for HD DVD being claimed as more forward looking, all I have to say is, huh? LED's have little to do as to whether a format is forward looking or not. Furthermore, the "betamax" agrument has been shown to be a poor one countless times on this thread, so I'll just refer you to read past posts.

As for the theory of downloadable HD content, well, in time we may be downloading full length movies in full HD resolution at 25GB to 50GB a pop, but I don't think it will be any time soon.
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