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Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD (2006) - Page 27

post #1041 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by marzetta7
Yet another manufacturer joining in Blu-ray exclusivity.

Quote:
No word on when an LG-branded Blu-ray deck may ship in the U.S.

Sounds more like they have no plans at all. They went from Blu-ray, to hybrid, to no plans now. So if they are exclusive to anything, it is exclusive to nothing.

Quote:
and IT manufacturers (HP, Dell, & Apple).

Apple is not exclusive as evident in the hd-dvd authoring they currently provide, and the fact they have NEVER claimed to be exclusive.

And HP is not exclusive either (http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/pr...5/051216a.html)

Quote:
As for the theory of downloadable HD content, well, in time we may be downloading full length movies in full HD resolution at 25GB to 50GB a pop, but I don't think it will be any time soon.

I agree with you here. The guy comparing the next gen dvd format to a typewriter is insane. So what were DVDs, quill pens and paper? pressed media isn't going away anytime soon. This next gen format (who ever wins) will be around for 5 years minimum. The US blows ass in broadband, and really needs to step it up. But that will only happen if the government does something about the local monopolies the cable and phone companies have. But that is a discussion for a whole other thread.
post #1042 of 2106
Are you kidding me, Verizon's FIOS offers 100Mb service to the home, even a tenth of that is enough for a couple simultaneous HD streams.

I use Cablevision which is up to 15Mb dowstream, still plenty fast.

I have no need for stock piling discs that scratch and become obsolete. And you have to either wait for them to be delivered or go out to the store to pick them up. And you have to buy a proprietary player/recorder that can handle half of HD discs (1/2 standards).

Heck we minus well mail letters instead of using these online message boards.
post #1043 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by ngmapple
Again, don't buy this junk. Blu-ray and HD-DVD players are just a compilation of cheap plastics and electronics that probably cost about 10-20 bucks per player. The whole thing is a marketing scam. They created two standards on purpose, to get a lot of media attention and hype.

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post #1044 of 2106
Thread Starter 
True, HP and Apple, as of right now are not Blu-ray exclusive. I just reread my post and I do make it sound like HP and Apple are Blu-ray exclusive in my sentence (although I think Apple will be here pretty soon). My apologies. I only meant the CE manufactures I listed as exclusive.
Quote:
"According to Bob Perry, VP of sales and channel marketing who outlined product plans at the company's 2006 Summer Line Show this week in New York, LG remains part of the Blu-ray camp and will make a product announcement later in the year."

Sounds like a plan to me.
post #1045 of 2106
LG has really dissapointed me here.

They basically engaged in BDA'esque hype about what they were going to do and now they're saying "sorry we're not going to do this"

They can do what they want but an LG product will not be in my house for a while. I absolutely abhor companies that are flaky. Samsung is on the verge of me looking for another TV because of their flakiness. Mean what you say and say what you mean.

Sour Grapes? Perhaps but I'm tired of vendors huffing and puffing with no action.
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post #1046 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by ngmapple
Are you kidding me, Verizon's FIOS offers 100Mb service to the home, even a tenth of that is enough for a couple simultaneous HD streams.

And how widely spread is that? And the cost? I just looked on their website and could only find Up to 30 Mbps/5 Mbps for $179.95. I would hate to see the cost of a 100mbps service.

Now let me just pick a random country out of my hat that is not America and we see...

2.5Gb/s Internet For French Homes for $85/month!!!

Now, tell me how we are not getting badly beaten here...

Oh, and 1/10th of a 100Mbps stream is not enough for "a couple simultaneous HD streams". It would handle one compressed HD stream. And add to the fact that this line doesn't exist in the US, and it handle a whopping 0 HD streams.

Quote:
I use Cablevision which is up to 15Mb dowstream, still plenty fast.

And I am using Comcast at 8Mbps, which is pretty fast. But then I realize I pay $60/month, and I could be getting 3-4 times the speed for that price in MANY other countries.
post #1047 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by ngmapple
Again, don't buy this junk. Blu-ray and HD-DVD players are just a compilation of cheap plastics and electronics that probably cost about 10-20 bucks per player. The whole thing is a marketing scam. They created two standards on purpose, to get a lot of media attention and hype.

You need to get out more.
post #1048 of 2106
2.5Gbs for $85 USD...lucky French bastids.

I do think that VoD will take off in this next decade but in fairness to both Blu-Ray and HD DVD they have hooks that ensure that VoD features can be added to your current physical media.

Say you buy a movie and later on there is a new Directors Cut rather than press a new disc studios will be able offer downloadable content that branches into the movie. The beauty of this is that while the disc has a finite bandwidth the extra content doesn't count towards the muxed audio/video on the disc. The controller will have to handle the additional bandwidth but that shouldn't be a problem by the time we start seeing HD players with built in HDD.
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post #1049 of 2106
Aeon Flux is Reference Material on HD DVD

Quote:
In my review of the standard DVD I mentioned that "...there are scenes in Æon Flux that look so crystal clear, you feel you could touch the actors through your television set..." well, that rings especially true in the High Definition version and anything that was "wrong" in the standard DVD has been corrected for its HD release. The wide 2.40:1 aspect ratio looks crystal clear in most every shot. And as with most of the HD-DVD releases, there's a new layer of depth with the background shots, that seem to give even more of a 3D effect while watching. The annoying edge enhancement that plagued a couple of the scenes in the earlier release is nowhere to be found here and I might just have a new reference-quality HD-DVD in "Æon Flux".

Sadly the new movies like Ultraviolet and AF look GREAT. Too bad they're not movies you want to watch over and over. You give me LotR and The Matrix Trilogy at these levels and I'll damn near pay you whatever you want for them.
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post #1050 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by marzetta7
True, HP and Apple, as of right now are not Blu-ray exclusive. I just reread my post and I do make it sound like HP and Apple are Blu-ray exclusive in my sentence (although I think Apple will be here pretty soon). My apologies. I only meant the CE manufactures I listed as exclusive.
Sounds like a plan to me.

You may still be wrong about LG

http://www.engadget.com/2006/06/13/l...hd-dvd-player/

They have a HD DVD enabled laptop as well.

but nothing compared to this.

Acer 20" laptop with HD DVD

Wow.
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post #1051 of 2106
HD DVD vs Blu-Ray head to head on Training Day

Read the article and see who wins.


"Holy inferior audio Batman!"

"The HD DVD release of 'Training Day' was only the second on the format to include a TrueHD Dolby Digital track (after another Warner title, 'Phantom of the Opera'). Unfortunately, due to disc space limitations, Warner has elected to drop the track altogether on the Blu-ray release. Of course, since there are currently no TrueHD-compatible HD DVD or Blu-ray players nor A/V receivers on the market that can even decode the format, as of this writing the question remains moot. But more troubling is that Warner has also dropped the Dolby Digital-Plus track off of this Blu-ray release, too -- the only format available is plain old Dolby Digital 5.1 surround. So instead of this Blu-ray sounding identical to the HD DVD, it sounds identical to the standard DVD released back in 2001. "
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post #1052 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
HD DVD vs Blu-Ray head to head on Training Day

Read the article and see who wins.


"Holy inferior audio Batman!"

"The HD DVD release of 'Training Day' was only the second on the format to include a TrueHD Dolby Digital track (after another Warner title, 'Phantom of the Opera'). Unfortunately, due to disc space limitations, Warner has elected to drop the track altogether on the Blu-ray release. Of course, since there are currently no TrueHD-compatible HD DVD or Blu-ray players nor A/V receivers on the market that can even decode the format, as of this writing the question remains moot. But more troubling is that Warner has also dropped the Dolby Digital-Plus track off of this Blu-ray release, too -- the only format available is plain old Dolby Digital 5.1 surround. So instead of this Blu-ray sounding identical to the HD DVD, it sounds identical to the standard DVD released back in 2001. "

Why on earth would Warner Home Video use VC1 on the HD-DVD but then use MPEG2 on the Blu-Ray disc when Blu-Ray supports VC1 as well? That just doesn't make any sense. Why go through the trouble of encoding twice? These studios have their heads up their asses.

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post #1053 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison

Acer 20" laptop with HD DVD

Wow.

Can a 20 inch laptop really be called a laptop? It's 2-1/2 inches thick and weighs 17 lbs.

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post #1054 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by kupan787
And how widely spread is that? And the cost? I just looked on their website and could only find Up to 30 Mbps/5 Mbps for $179.95. I would hate to see the cost of a 100mbps service.

Now let me just pick a random country out of my hat that is not America and we see...

2.5Gb/s Internet For French Homes for $85/month!!!

Now, tell me how we are not getting badly beaten here...

Oh, and 1/10th of a 100Mbps stream is not enough for "a couple simultaneous HD streams". It would handle one compressed HD stream. And add to the fact that this line doesn't exist in the US, and it handle a whopping 0 HD streams.



And I am using Comcast at 8Mbps, which is pretty fast. But then I realize I pay $60/month, and I could be getting 3-4 times the speed for that price in MANY other countries.

The US has always been behind in implementing technology. The government moves at a snails pace. I pay about $45/month for 6Mbps. I guess that's pretty good considering that everything moves through tubes but still...

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post #1055 of 2106
i pay $970 a year for a 512k dsl.
try to beat that.
post #1056 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by kupan787
And how widely spread is that? And the cost? I just looked on their website and could only find Up to 30 Mbps/5 Mbps for $179.95. I would hate to see the cost of a 100mbps service.

Now let me just pick a random country out of my hat that is not America and we see...

2.5Gb/s Internet For French Homes for $85/month!!!

Now, tell me how we are not getting badly beaten here...

Oh, and 1/10th of a 100Mbps stream is not enough for "a couple simultaneous HD streams". It would handle one compressed HD stream. And add to the fact that this line doesn't exist in the US, and it handle a whopping 0 HD streams.



And I am using Comcast at 8Mbps, which is pretty fast. But then I realize I pay $60/month, and I could be getting 3-4 times the speed for that price in MANY other countries.


US Population = 295,734,134 / 80% + of US homes have internet access.
French Population = 60,656,178 / 50% of french homes have internet access.

Now I hate to be sticky over details, but only 50% of french households have internet access, and 80%+ US house holds have internet access.
With our population, and access not only do we have a bandwidth issue that france does not have to deal with, but we also have to get ahead of the curve next time.
We have a much larger area to cover, and getting wired across the country isn't the easiest thing to do. Also, How many updates must we have? We laid T3, then started OC3, and OC12 and we keep working, but because of our size every time we get half way through laying down the technology for better service, a new one has already emerged. Criticize all you want, but if you need to download at 2.5GB per second that bad go ahead and move to France. Fuckin A.
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post #1057 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
US Population = 295,734,134 / 80% + of US homes have internet access.

Where is this data from? I found this:

Internet users as of March/2006: 68.6% of the population, according to Nielsen//NetRatings.

So a little off from your 80% figure.

Quote:
Now I hate to be sticky over details, but only 50% of french households have internet access

This plan calls for a 60% coverage of French households initially, with a rollout to the other 40% over time. The later 40% will be the bulk of the investment (3 times the initial 60% coverage). So their goal is to get 100% broadband coverage. What is the US figure for broadband coverage?

Quote:
We have a much larger area to cover, and getting wired across the country isn't the easiest thing to do.

I've heard arguments like this before ("they're much more tightly packed than we are, so laying down fiber in major cities has a much greater profit/sq. ft ratio than a telco could get in the US."), but there are places in New York and other large metropolises that are just as packed as some of less dense Asian cities and even they don't have bandwidth to compare. I am not saying that every square inch must be covered at once. But at least start rolling out something in major metropolitan areas, to be rolled out across the country over time.

Quote:
Also, How many updates must we have? We laid T3, then started OC3, and OC12 and we keep working, but because of our size every time we get half way through laying down the technology for better service, a new one has already emerged.

I don't want to derail this thread, but our situation is a joke and gets worse everyday. The United States currently ranks 12th in the world for broadband subscribers. Our system is so messed up it is ridiculous. Backdoor political dealings, payoffs, etc...it all just screws over the consumer and lines the pockets even more of these corporations. Believe me, if I had a choice in broadband providers, I would drop Comcast in a second. But guess what? I don't! There is no other means of getting broadband where I am located. So it is either take it from Comcast, or go back to dialup. And with 3 guys in an apartment, dialup isn't even close to an option.

But really, we have government regulation to thank for our laughable phone and data networks. By trying to encourage phone companies to lay out phone wire in not so profitable locations back in the 40s and 50s, we granted them monopolies, and now they've become as poorly managed as the airlines. Most phone companies in European countries are also monopolies. The difference is that they're government regulated and partially (or wholly) government funded monopolies. It's that lack of state intervention that makes the huge difference. On the one hand, we (Americans) have never really had to wait long times to get phone service for decades. On the other hand, our internet growth has become a quagmire.

Quote:
Criticize all you want, but if you need to download at 2.5GB per second that bad go ahead and move to France. Fuckin A.

But here is the thing. It is not just you or me. Imagine if businesses could get lines like these at these kinds of prices, rather than paying hundreds of dollars for a T1. Having this kind of bandwidth (or potential) could open the doors for many smaller business ideas, or allow existing companies to offer greater services. Imagine IPTV, VOIP, Internet, on demand movies, etc, all over one pipe into your home for $85/month.
post #1058 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by kupan787
Where is this data from? I found this:

Internet users as of March/2006: 68.6% of the population, according to Nielsen//NetRatings.

So a little off from your 80% figure.


#1 Nielsen Ratings. were proven to be inacurate a few years ago.

#2 you were correct though. I did read that incorrectly. The actual quote was as follows:

While 80 percent of U.S. households have computers, just over half of these households subscribe to broadband service.

#3 This has taken the Blue ray Discussion off topic.
If you want to continue down this road I suggest you start another thread in the general Discussion forum. Thank you.

Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
HD DVD vs Blu-Ray head to head on Training Day

Read the article and see who wins.


"Holy inferior audio Batman!"

"The HD DVD release of 'Training Day' was only the second on the format to include a TrueHD Dolby Digital track (after another Warner title, 'Phantom of the Opera'). Unfortunately, due to disc space limitations, Warner has elected to drop the track altogether on the Blu-ray release. Of course, since there are currently no TrueHD-compatible HD DVD or Blu-ray players nor A/V receivers on the market that can even decode the format, as of this writing the question remains moot. But more troubling is that Warner has also dropped the Dolby Digital-Plus track off of this Blu-ray release, too -- the only format available is plain old Dolby Digital 5.1 surround. So instead of this Blu-ray sounding identical to the HD DVD, it sounds identical to the standard DVD released back in 2001. "


Some of it looks like a hardware issue. The 1st Blu-Ray player is a dud maybe? - But warner dropping the tracks is unexplainable. The Blu-Ray disc should have ample room compared o the HD-DVD version. I'm doubting that disc space is their true reasoning. The Video seems like an encoding issue which could also be hardware related, but I'm still suspicious about the lost tracks.
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post #1059 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
Some of it looks like a hardware issue. The 1st Blu-Ray player is a dud maybe? - But warner dropping the tracks is unexplainable. The Blu-Ray disc should have ample room compared o the HD-DVD version. I'm doubting that disc space is their true reasoning. The Video seems like an encoding issue which could also be hardware related, but I'm still suspicious about the lost tracks.

That's what I said, too.. I've been lurking in this thread for a while and finally I realized I knew nothing about HDDVD or Blu-Ray so I went to wikipedia.

I got the numbers on both and I can see why people are arguing. It seems that the more alike two products are, the more people argue over which is better. This is the case with BR vs HDDVD, IMO.

The only advantage to HDDVD, from what little I know, is that it can be in smaller players due to the necessary hardware bloat of blu ray.

The advantage to Blu Ray is that it holds more stuff by a relatively slim margin.

I tried to find out which is more popular these days, because that should lean towards a winner in the future, but they both seem pretty much non-existant.

I'd also like to know about DRM with HD movies on either format. Am I going to need a 'sanctioned' TV in order to use them? Is ripping software even a possibility?
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post #1060 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by slughead
The only advantage to HDVD is that it can be in smaller players due to the necessary hardware bloat of blu ray

MPEG2 is much easier to decode than MPEG4, so I think that you have this reversed - HD-DVD should have the hardware bloat.
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post #1061 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by e1618978
MPEG2 is much easier to decode than MPEG4, so I think that you have this reversed - HD-DVD should have the hardware bloat.

Wiki said something about the LED's being different--HDDVD's use smaller lasers.

Also, if HDDVD uses mpeg 4, that means more information/size... I might need to go back to wikipedia
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post #1062 of 2106
Quote:
I'd also like to know about DRM with HD movies on either format. Am I going to need a 'sanctioned' TV in order to use them? Is ripping software even a possibility? [/B]

Ripping should be no problem, provided you have a blu-ray / HD-DVD burner, someone will write a fairly simple piece of software that litterally reads every pit on the disc and makes a copy of it onto another disc. The software doesn't even need to know what's on the disc, it just blindly makes an exact duplicate. This is how applications like Alcohol work, I'm sure there's a good mac equivalent.

Think of this scenario you may have a barcode on a piece of paper with a zillion bit encryption, you can still copy it with any dumb old photo copier.

In any case, I'm sticking by word; if I want HD quality movies, I'm going to download them. No way I'm dropping money on a single format blu-ray or HD-DVD DVDR only to be limited by physical media.
post #1063 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by slughead
Wiki said something about the LED's being different--HDDVD's use smaller lasers.

Also, if HDDVD uses mpeg 4, that means more information/size... I might need to go back to wikipedia

Slughead let me give you the truth.

Both formats "are" more similar than they are dissimilar. The quality of both should be the same at a given rate and codec. MPEG2 is the easiest to encode/decode but it doesn't offer the same quality as VC-1 or AVC at reasonable bitrates(under 20Mbps)

HD DVD uses the same disc structure as DVD so pressing plants can either be upgraded to support HD DVD or a new line can be purchased that stamps both discs. The lens assembly is smaller on an HD DVD because it shares a very similar numerical aperture(how close the laser is to the disc and its focusing area) so supporting both in a single assembly is easier.

Blu-Ray has a higher Numerical Aperture which means the laser is much closer to the disc. The recording layer was moved up closer to the surface of the disc so that the laser would be strong enough to penetrate the first layer and access the second without moving to a more powerful and costly laser. This is what may allow Blu-Ray to support 4 layers of data in the future.

DRAM

Both employ 128-bit encryption in the form of AACS. Unlike DVD if a key is found it can be revoked. This will prevent ripping of the content. Blu-Ray adds BD+ which is another layer of DRM that Fox Studios really pushed for. They also have a feature called ROM Mark.

Managed Copy

Are you a bit peeved that you can't rip HD DVD or Blu-Ray? Well fear not. Mandatory Copy is a feature of AACS that allows you to store a digital representation of your movie on a HDD. For all intents and purposes it is allowing you to RIP content to you drive the only catch is that that content will have limited usage rights and may cost you a bit extra. For those who just want the easy access of streaming media from a HTPC that just may be the ticket they need to fall in love with the formats. Here's the rub. Microsoft and Intel were interested in supporting Blu-Ray as well but with Fox Studios pushing BD+ inclusion it became clear that BD+ could usurp the right to Mandatory Managed Copy and Microsoft and Intel realized that this would hamper their respective forays into media with Media Cenntre PC and viiv technology. HD DVD offers no extra DRM so Mandatory Managed Copy will be there once it's ready.

Price

Because the lens assembly on HD DVD is so close to DVD and because the disc structure is the same it is said that HD DVD should be the overall cheaper format to produce. Time will tell here but Toshiba looks like they're going to press the issue on price so I expect myself that HD DVD will generally be slightly cheaper in future incarnation.

Hope this filled in some gaps. Both formats are incredible and offer huge potential. Which one the consumers decide to go with en masse will depend on a variety of factors.

Quote:
In any case, I'm sticking by word; if I want HD quality movies, I'm going to download them. No way I'm dropping money on a single format blu-ray or HD-DVD DVDR only to be limited by physical media.

Neither format is limited to physical media. Both specs have the ability to attach a HDD drive and dynamically update content that can be sync'd to the physical media. No more video stagnation. You will not be able to copy either format without their imposed restrictions. HD DVD may be able to be hacked but I doubt it. Blu-Ray is nigh impossible with BD+ added in.
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post #1064 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
Both formats "are" more similar than they are dissimilar. The quality of both should be the same at a given rate and codec. MPEG2 is the easiest to encode/decode but it doesn't offer the same quality as VC-1 or AVC at reasonable bitrates(under 20Mbps)
...

Because the lens assembly on HD DVD is so close to DVD and because the disc structure is the same it is said that HD DVD should be the overall cheaper format to produce.

But Blu-ray has much more space, so it can afford the higher bit rate of MPEG2. You don't need to limit yourself to <20 mbps, unlike the space-constrained HD-DVD.

The lower processing requirements should make blu-ray players much physically cooler, smaller, and cheaper than HD-DVD.
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post #1065 of 2106
It almost makes one root for HD-DVD. I use a backup disk of all the CD's, and DVD's that I absolutely don't want hurt, and I keep the originals in a safe area for storage just in case. But If I have to buy a Hard drive for every few High Definition disks I feel the need to archive this will cost me an arm and a leg.

At this point I think the studios need to take responsibility, and start an electronic key cataloging system as to where you can store your catalog information online at their site, and your disc becomes damaged they should be replacing it. Because that is the sole purpose of my backup system, and it is cheap, and worth it. But I don't think I should spend a dime more for it. Not with the money these cock knockers are making. Not after buying all these disks on DVD once, seeing most of them in the theaters, and now having to upgrade that catalog again. I should be able to send my DVD in for a coupon for the original price of the disc, and get a coupon for the exact same movie that works on it's upgraded High Definition version. THATS WHAT I WANT!
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post #1066 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by e1618978
But Blu-ray has much more space, so it can afford the higher bit rate of MPEG2. You don't need to limit yourself to <20 mbps, unlike the space-constrained HD-DVD.

The lower processing requirements should make blu-ray players much physically cooler, smaller, and cheaper than HD-DVD.

"Why" though is the question. If I can maintain the same quality at half the bitrate why would I choose MPEG2. Please explain your logic here. Come on you do do better than "feign ignorance" like you are here. When the equivalent quality can be delivered using less storage then it makes sense on multiple levels to choose the more efficient storage and codec.

As for your last point don't forget to add "at the expense of delivering the best HD quality"

Come on you can do better.

Onlooker-

I agree. Think of it in terms of License/Media. The physical disc in essence becomes the media for a license. Should the disc be destroyed It would be nice for the studios to have a policy of replacing the disc by the consumer paying for a mailer to return the broken disc for an exchange. Future players could have HDD included so that your favorite movies reside inside the player ready for access sans disc.

There are lots of new options that both formats have. We could see some fundamental chances next year in how we consume HD media.
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post #1067 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison


Onlooker-

I agree. Think of it in terms of License/Media. The physical disc in essence becomes the media for a license. Should the disc be destroyed It would be nice for the studios to have a policy of replacing the disc by the consumer paying for a mailer to return the broken disc for an exchange. Future players could have HDD included so that your favorite movies reside inside the player ready for access sans disc.

There are lots of new options that both formats have. We could see some fundamental chances next year in how we consume HD media.

I agree on all counts. I'm not sure that you caught this so I'll say it again. I was also talking about from DVD to HD DVD. I want a coupon for my previous purchase. I'm not saying an exact exchange, but I I should get at least 50+% off if I've already bought the movie depending on the price of the new media IMO.
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post #1068 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by 1984
The US has always been behind in implementing technology. The government moves at a snails pace.

The government doesn't implement this. The service providers do. And right now, they have very little competition, so there's very little incentive to upgrade. You basically have two options for broadband. DSL which is slower but cheaper, or cable which is faster but more expensive. And both are essentially monopolies for any given area; there's one cable company and one phone company. They're all more interested in whatever profit they can squeeze out of customers without upgrading infrastructure. Verizon is oh, so slowly rolling out FiOS, but that won't be a major player for years and is still much slower and much more expensive than what's offered in Japan or South Korea.

Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
Criticize all you want, but if you need to download at 2.5GB per second that bad go ahead and move to France. Fuckin A.

Where did this come from? Kupan did not engage in personal attacks and namecalling. Try to control yourself. This isn't a schoolyard.

Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
Not after buying all these disks on DVD once, seeing most of them in the theaters, and now having to upgrade that catalog again. I should be able to send my DVD in for a coupon for the original price of the disc, and get a coupon for the exact same movie that works on it's upgraded High Definition version. THATS WHAT I WANT!

You're probably too young to remember this, based on your language and lack of anger management, but when we transitioned from records to CDs, no company ever offered to replace our LPs with CDs for free or even reduced cost. It's always been if you want a better version, you buy it. You can't even trade CDs and DVDs for "special editions" that came out later. Nobody's forcing you to buy Blu-ray or HD DVD and nobody's taking your DVDs away. There's no reason you have to buy the movies again. I wouldn't mind if companies kept giving me credit on new computers for the old ones I used for years, but that's not going to happen. Welcome to Capitalism 101. So ease up.
post #1069 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
"Why" though is the question. If I can maintain the same quality at half the bitrate why would I choose MPEG2.

Disk space is not the only cost, processing power is also a cost.

HD-DVD uses less disk space and bandwidth, at the expense of processing power. HD-DVD players will always be hotter, bigger, and probably more expensive than blu-ray players.

Blu-ray uses less procesing power, at the expense of disk space and bandwidth. Since Blu-ray has plenty of disk space to use, and movies will never be longer than a few hours, this is an intelligent decision. You get less expensive players, lower heat output, smaller chassis, etc.
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post #1070 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by Kolchak
The government doesn't implement this. The service providers do. And right now, they have very little competition, so there's very little incentive to upgrade. You basically have two options for broadband. DSL which is slower but cheaper, or cable which is faster but more expensive. And both are essentially monopolies for any given area; there's one cable company and one phone company. They're all more interested in whatever profit they can squeeze out of customers without upgrading infrastructure. Verizon is oh, so slowly rolling out FiOS, but that won't be a major player for years and is still much slower and much more expensive than what's offered in Japan or South Korea.


Where did this come from? Kupan did not engage in personal attacks and namecalling. Try to control yourself. This isn't a schoolyard.


You're probably too young to remember this, based on your language and lack of anger management, but when we transitioned from records to CDs, no company ever offered to replace our LPs with CDs for free or even reduced cost. It's always been if you want a better version, you buy it. You can't even trade CDs and DVDs for "special editions" that came out later. Nobody's forcing you to buy Blu-ray or HD DVD and nobody's taking your DVDs away. There's no reason you have to buy the movies again. I wouldn't mind if companies kept giving me credit on new computers for the old ones I used for years, but that's not going to happen. Welcome to Capitalism 101. So ease up.

I remember the 8 track. Too young. Pfft..
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post #1071 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
I agree. Think of it in terms of License/Media. The physical disc in essence becomes the media for a license. Should the disc be destroyed It would be nice for the studios to have a policy of replacing the disc by the consumer paying for a mailer to return the broken disc for an exchange.

I know some box sets (like Season X of TV Show Y) offer this. My wife borrowed a friend's "Lost" Season 1 Set and (ironically) lost one of the discs. It cost $4 + S/H ($1.99 IIRC) to replace a single disc from the box set. I can't complain about that. I have no idea if studios have a standard practice like that, but some at least recognize the issue.

I suppose in light of the difficulty they create in creating a backup of your media, they should be required to have a cheap replacement policy.
post #1072 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
I remember the 8 track. Too young. Pfft..

I wouldn't brag about that. At your age, you should know better. I expect that sort of coarse language and ignorance in online forums from those too young to drink, but not from middle-aged adults.

Quote:
Originally posted by atomicham
I know some box sets (like Season X of TV Show Y) offer this. My wife borrowed a friend's "Lost" Season 1 Set and (ironically) lost one of the discs. It cost $4 + S/H ($1.99 IIRC) to replace a single disc from the box set. I can't complain about that. I have no idea if studios have a standard practice like that, but some at least recognize the issue.

I suppose in light of the difficulty they create in creating a backup of your media, they should be required to have a cheap replacement policy.

I don't expect you can replace more than one or two disks under that policy. As it is, it costs them very little to replace disks like that since the lowest price I can find for a box set is $42, so that's $6 per disc. That means nobody would be able to assemble a full set under the replacement policy for less than the sale price, and you wouldn't have the packaging.

Quote:
Originally posted by ngmapple
Are you kidding me, Verizon's FIOS offers 100Mb service to the home, even a tenth of that is enough for a couple simultaneous HD streams.

I use Cablevision which is up to 15Mb dowstream, still plenty fast.

Verizon offers up to 30Mbps, for a whopping $180/month (with a one year commitment). 15Mbps is a much better deal at $45/mo. Customers who need really high speed for downloading would be better off buying two of the 15Mbps connections for half the price of the 30. Cablevision doesn't give you 30Mbps unless you pay $60/mo and the 15Mbps is still $45/mo, although that's still 3x the speed of crappy RoadRunner for the same price.
post #1073 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by e1618978
MPEG2 is much easier to decode than MPEG4, so I think that you have this reversed - HD-DVD should have the hardware bloat.

Quote:
The lower processing requirements should make blu-ray players much physically cooler, smaller, and cheaper than HD-DVD.

Except for the fact that Blu-ray has to also be able to decode VC-1 and AVC. So if they both have to be able to decode all the formats, they will be roughly the same in processing power. I don't know why you are thinking that Blu-ray will be smaller/cooler because current disks are coming out as MPEG-2. So when the first VC-1/AVC disks come out for Blu-ray I wont be able to play them because my Blu-ray player doesn't have enough processing power? Is that what you are telling me?
post #1074 of 2106
Training Day Review

Quote:
Whatever its merits as a film, 'Training Day' has made history by becoming one of the first titles to be released on both the Blu-ray and HD DVD formats. In our first head-to-head comparison, we found the HD DVD to be superior. The unfortunate cropping of the Blu-ray image, coupled with more noticeable compression artifacts and an overall darker cast, can't compete with the more consistently pleasing presentation of the HD DVD. Also a strike against the Blu-ray version is that both the Dolby TrueHD and Dolby Digital-Plus soundtracks have been dropped in favor of plain old Dolby Digital, and even the disc's menu navigation is more clunky and with less interactive functionality. Certainly, this Blu-ray release delivers fine video quality in its own right, but the format's backers will need to step it up if they are going to win the hearts and minds of early adopters over HD DVD.

Interesting indeed. I can't wait for more players to hit the market (for both formats) to see if there are any difference among players (and to see if it is the Samsung that is doing the cropping).
post #1075 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by kupan787
Except for the fact that Blu-ray has to also be able to decode VC-1 and AVC. So if they both have to be able to decode all the formats, they will be roughly the same in processing power. I don't know why you are thinking that Blu-ray will be smaller/cooler because current disks are coming out as MPEG-2. So when the first VC-1/AVC disks come out for Blu-ray I wont be able to play them because my Blu-ray player doesn't have enough processing power? Is that what you are telling me?

I don't think that there will ever be MPEG-4 blu-ray disks, and the heat output is only when you are playing the disk. However, I'll admit that as long as blu-ray still supports MPEG-2, they still need all the same cooling and processing hardware.

I wonder if playing an MPEG-4 HD-DVD movie would noticeably drain the battery of a laptop faster than playing a MPEG-2 blu-ray movie...
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post #1076 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by Kolchak
The government doesn't implement this. The service providers do You basically have two options for broadband. DSL which is slower but cheaper, or cable which is faster but more expensive. And both are essentially monopolies for any given area; there's one cable company and one phone company.

That's exactly what I was talking about though. The government does nothing about these monopolies. Just look at who's hands the Net Neutrality bill is in. It's all a bunch of tubes to them. If there was competition we would have faster speeds. You should have seen the despicable behavior Comcast showed when a competing municipal broadband service was on the table. They spent millions on a massive misinformation campaign using television, radio, pamphlets, phone calls, etc. They had Comcast employees poising as citizens at the meetings asking loaded questions, made threatening calls to members in favor of the competition, performed bogus surveys claiming to be a third party while pushing their own agenda. It was unbelievable. I had never seen anything more corrupt. Needless to say they won the vote. A month later Comcast jacked up their rates.

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post #1077 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
"Why" though is the question. If I can maintain the same quality at half the bitrate why would I choose MPEG2. Please explain your logic here. Come on you do do better than "feign ignorance" like you are here. When the equivalent quality can be delivered using less storage then it makes sense on multiple levels to choose the more efficient storage and codec.

You don't have to choose MPEG2. Blu-Ray supports MPEG4 as well. I've seen the demos so it's up to the studios. You can fit considerably more MPEG4 video on a 25/50 GB BD-ROM and not even have to worry about fudging the bitrate. The question is why Warner would use MPEG4 on HD-DVD but not on Blu-Ray when there is no reason not to. It's possible that some within Warner want Blu-Ray to fail so they decided to do a quick and dirty transfer. I also think the Samsung player is unfortunately a dud. It seems to have a lot of video issues which make a direct comparison impossible at this time. There are a whole lot of other manufacturers coming out with Blu-Ray players so we're not going to learn anything valuable for a while. I think we'll be well past page 100 before a "winner" is declared.

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post #1078 of 2106
1984 from what I'm hearing the VC-1 authoring tools for Blu-Ray weren't quite ready so Warner chose MPEG2 but will move to VC-1 on future releases.

They did a fine job maximizing quality for their first release so I expect their VC-1 stuff will be very good as well.
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post #1079 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by Kolchak
I wouldn't brag about that. At your age, you should know better. I expect that sort of coarse language and ignorance in online forums from those too young to drink, but not from middle-aged adults.



I said I can remember them. I didn't say I invented them. I'm no where near middle aged. If middle aged were 50 I'd be just over half of that. And I still like to curse online because I don't do it in person anymore.
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post #1080 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
I said I can remember them. I didn't say I invented them. I'm no where near middle aged. If middle aged were 50 I'd be just over half of that. And I still like to curse online because I don't do it in person anymore.

Male life expectancy in the US is 72, so middle aged is 36.
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