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Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD (2006) - Page 44

post #1721 of 2106
It would be very good business for Blu-Ray if Sony would give Apple a discount on Blu-Ray drives in iTV so that they could include a model of the iTV that also acted as a blu-ray player. Because Sony is discounting blu-ray drives to Apple, Apple doesn't have to charge much more to customers to include it as a secondary option for iTV, and Sony also wins because this pulls in Apple's media success to maybe lock in Blu-Ray as the champion in the DVD race, which would ultimately give Sony revenue on Blu-Ray DVD sales to make up for the at-loss drives they sold to Apple until the prices come down so that it is not at-loss anymore.
post #1722 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by icfireball

It would be very good business for Blu-Ray if Sony would give Apple a discount on Blu-Ray drives in iTV so that they could include a model of the iTV that also acted as a blu-ray player. Because Sony is discounting blu-ray drives to Apple, Apple doesn't have to charge much more to customers to include it as a secondary option for iTV, and Sony also wins because this pulls in Apple's media success to maybe lock in Blu-Ray as the champion in the DVD race, which would ultimately give Sony revenue on Blu-Ray DVD sales to make up for the at-loss drives they sold to Apple until the prices come down so that it is not at-loss anymore.

This is how a company can get a law suit and Apple's not that stupid to ruin it's reputation to push BD sales to help a sinking Titanic.... I don't think Apple can help Blu-Ray, no more than PS3 can....
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post #1723 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac


. . . Apple's not that stupid to ruin it's reputation to push BD sales to help a sinking Titanic.... I don't think Apple can help Blu-Ray, no more than PS3 can....

Doom and gloom. I'll wait to see who sinks before buying a player for movies, but we might get either console for games.
post #1724 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoopy

Doom and gloom. I'll wait to see who sinks before buying a player for movies, but we might get either console for games.

LOL..... Don't wait until the party's over. Only thing that is hurting the new formatis from you guys on the sideline missing out on HD experience.... with either BD or HD-DVD. Most of the Titles are worthy of buying even when dubble dipping. I'm sure Sony will eventually get on the ball and release a decent Hif-Def worthy titles soon in the future. Eitherway, I probably will support both format once I get my hands on the PS3, with slightly favoring HD-DVD. Meaning that if a Hi-Def movie is release on both format, I'll take the HD-DVD over BD just because of better/consistency in PQ & AQ with current releases. All in all, I'm just happy to have HD optical disc format movies at home, and have been very happy and impressed with HD-DVD. Just go out there and buy something in Hi-Def already, you're missing all the fun.
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post #1725 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac

This is how a company can get a law suit and Apple's not that stupid to ruin it's reputation to push BD sales to help a sinking Titanic.... I don't think Apple can help Blu-Ray, no more than PS3 can....

Consider first that PS3 is made by Sony, so that's Sony helping Sony. And why would this cause a law-suite again? I'm not sure I understand -- if two companies make a contract, that is not lawsuit material. Blu-ray is hardly a sinking ship, it's only problem is that its too expensive for consumers right now, and I just came up with an idea to remedy that. Apple alone cannot help Blu-Ray, but it certainly would make a large impact.
post #1726 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by icfireball

It would be very good business for Blu-Ray if Sony would give Apple a discount on Blu-Ray drives in iTV so that they could include a model of the iTV that also acted as a blu-ray player. Because Sony is discounting blu-ray drives to Apple, Apple doesn't have to charge much more to customers to include it as a secondary option for iTV, and Sony also wins because this pulls in Apple's media success to maybe lock in Blu-Ray as the champion in the DVD race, which would ultimately give Sony revenue on Blu-Ray DVD sales to make up for the at-loss drives they sold to Apple until the prices come down so that it is not at-loss anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by icfireball

Consider first that PS3 is made by Sony, so that's Sony helping Sony. And why would this cause a law-suite again? I'm not sure I understand -- if two companies make a contract, that is not lawsuit material. Blu-ray is hardly a sinking ship, it's only problem is that its too expensive for consumers right now, and I just came up with an idea to remedy that. Apple alone cannot help Blu-Ray, but it certainly would make a large impact.

Any closed door special deal exclusive to special customer would be considered illegal uder fair trade commission. Eitherway, I don't think Sony themselves make the BD-DVD rom drive, but other OEM manufacturer like NEC does, so the pricing can't be controlled too much at this point. Also, I don't think the supply of BD-DVD rom drive can be spared to apple when the supply can barely keep up with PS3 production.
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post #1727 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac

Just go out there and buy something in Hi-Def already, you're missing all the fun.

I'll get right on it.
post #1728 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guartho

I didn't realize the installed user base could already play Blu-Ray movies. Silly me, I thought you needed a PS3 for that.

at this point there are over half a million PS3s in homes, THATS "installed" read the post before you make an ass of yourself
post #1729 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trendannoyer

at this point there are over half a million PS3s in homes, THATS "installed" read the post before you make an ass of yourself

I'm going to need proof of this. Link please.

http://www.thedvdwars.com/index.cfm

Blu-ray is still getting dominated. The PS3 should have had a tangible effect on movie sales happening BEFORE the launch as people prepared. We're after the launch and Blu-ray has ONE Top 1000 disc.

Clearly the PS3 owners are selling their consoles or they don't care enough about movies to warrant buying them.
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post #1730 of 2106
Er what? Who the heck buys media for a player they don't have yet. Especially one as "rare" as the PS3? There might be an anticipatory uptick closer to Christmas if PS3 volumes increase and folks expect to see a PS3 in Jan or Feb.

Beside, anytime DVE shows up in your top 10 sales you know you're in the super early adoptor phase. It ranks #7 for HD-DVD? The only people that own either format are folks from AVS forums and some lucky gamers that scored some PS3s.

Vinea
post #1731 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trendannoyer

at this point there are over half a million PS3s in homes, THATS "installed" read the post before you make an ass of yourself

Less than a quarter million ps3's actually shipped.
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post #1732 of 2106
With only about 250K units shipping on the launch date... having over 500K PS3 sold units in two weeks time after launch date doesn't seem to be possible. If Sony did release another 250K unit allocation, I would've gotten my unit and bitching about BD-DVD already. Anyway, looks like Wii had a better launch than Sony. Just check out the sales # for all the stuff associated with it.

http://www.gamesystemwars.com/index.cfm

Anyway, I would think that 250K units of PS3 would have been a significant impact on the BD-DVD sales already if the initial estimated percentage of buyers were potential BD-DVD movie buyers. It doesn't seem to be the case. So... is PS3 still the savior of BD-DVD movie market?....
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post #1733 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac

With only about 250K units shipping on the launch date... having over 500K PS3 sold units in two weeks time after launch date doesn't seem to be possible. If Sony did release another 250K unit allocation, I would've gotten my unit and bitching about BD-DVD already. Anyway, looks like Wii had a better launch than Sony. Just check out the sales # for all the stuff associated with it.

http://www.gamesystemwars.com/index.cfm

Anyway, I would think that 250K units of PS3 would have been a significant impact on the BD-DVD sales already if the initial estimated percentage of buyers were potential BD-DVD movie buyers. It doesn't seem to be the case. So... is PS3 still the savior of BD-DVD movie market?....

so why exactly are you getting a ps3?

the wii may have had a better launch in terms of figures but boy did they botch it with their games. besides the original playstation, the wii launch could have the worst reviewed launch lineup in recent memory, with the ps3 trailing close behind.
post #1734 of 2106
its late so im not going searching... but to my memory there were 80,000 in japan? yes? 3 weeks ago????

plus 400,000 in the us 2 weeks ago... plus more being air lifted in over the last 2/3 weeks... even if that was ONLY another 20,000 that gets you to 5000,000 thats where i got my figure from... again, its late,been a long day and i'll go looking for links tomorrow

either way over the next few weeks it will be more than that (i seem to recall sony saying a planned 1 million by xmas... i know i know first it was 4 then 2 now 1)

plus stand alone blue ray players (all 12 over them ) added into the total PS3 count.

time will tell


{ok so i went looking after all and OOOPS i was wrong so apologies to all concerned}

//400,000 consoles by launch a "goal"


Although Sony remains firm that they are on track for shipping out six million PS3 consoles by March, and despite the recent cut down to 400,000 units for North America, it is possible that we may see a shortage.

In an interview with Bloomberg, SCEA co-chair Jack Tretton stated that the launch figures, which are already low, are not set in stone. "The honest answer is it's more of a target," he said. "Clearly we've had production issues."

With a little over three weeks left until the North American launch, cross your fingers that Sony can get their stuff together and ship a minimum of 400,000 units on day one//

i dont know if they managed that 400,000 figure..

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post #1735 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elixir

so why exactly are you getting a ps3?

Because I'm impatient. I could wait until Fox and mostly anticipating Pixar/Disney to support both formats, but I would like to have them now at a decent price around... $500/600. I'm not much of a console gamer, but I do play PC games time to time. Well, I can use PS3 for BD-DVD for now, then give it away to my nephew in 6 months to a year or when I get a replacement (univeral player/better BD player) or when Pixar/Disney go neutral.

Hm.... that's a good question.... maybe I dont' need it or should wait another 6 months?...

Oh well... most of the movies I want is already or will be in HD-DVD. I should be getting my Superman classics, Superman Returns, and Mummy in couple of days....... and Harry Potter series in the near future........ I guess I don't need PS3 afterall... Thanks for asking....
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post #1736 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac

Any closed door special deal exclusive to special customer would be considered illegal uder fair trade commission. Eitherway, I don't think Sony themselves make the BD-DVD rom drive, but other OEM manufacturer like NEC does, so the pricing can't be controlled too much at this point. Also, I don't think the supply of BD-DVD rom drive can be spared to apple when the supply can barely keep up with PS3 production.

It wouldn't be a closed door special. I just used Apple as an example. Sony should loose money by setting blu-ray players really cheap next year -- in the key year, so that they catch on, and by in 2008, the price has come down enough to make profit on the players. If Sony looses the DVD format war, they are looking at loosing a LOT of money.
post #1737 of 2106
WHO CARES ABOUT HD OR Blu-Ray??? If either of these were any good, Apple would have included them on the iTV. Why on earth would anyone want to go out and buy a disk when they can just stream the movie over the internet (iTunes)?

Maybe I should open a store that sells websites on disc. I'd make a lot of sales to this market.
post #1738 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by ngmapple

WHO CARES ABOUT HD OR Blu-Ray??? If either of these were any good, Apple would have included them on the iTV. Why on earth would anyone want to go out and buy a disk when they can just stream the movie over the internet (iTunes)?

Maybe I should open a store that sells websites on disc. I'd make a lot of sales to this market.

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Apple obviously thinks something about Blu-Ray.
post #1739 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by ngmapple

WHO CARES ABOUT HD OR Blu-Ray??? If either of these were any good, Apple would have included them on the iTV. Why on earth would anyone want to go out and buy a disk when they can just stream the movie over the internet (iTunes)?

Maybe I should open a store that sells websites on disc. I'd make a lot of sales to this market.


I have to say that your argument is ridiculous.

How can say iTV is going to be better than High Definition disk that holds 50+ gigs of data?

I also have to say, but everybody probably knows, that I think iTV is a POS.
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post #1740 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker

I have to say that your argument is ridiculous.

How can say iTV is going to be better than High Definition disk that holds 50+ gigs of data?

I also have to say, but everybody probably knows, that I think iTV is a POS.

iTV is not a POS. In fact, I tried downloading TV shows from iTunes and they look perfectly fine on my large high definition television. Not to mention that iTV is not just for video, and it is not just for interfacing with computers. It is a router, it has component ports (aka DVD player, etc), it has cable ports (possible DVR), USB ports (cameras, etc), and much much more.

The iTV will likely do what it is suppose to do very well, and what it suppose to do is very useful.

I agree with you that there will always be a place for physical media, very high definition, special features and extra options, and that is where Blu-Ray comes in.
post #1741 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker

I have to say that your argument is ridiculous.

How can say iTV is going to be better than High Definition disk that holds 50+ gigs of data?

I also have to say, but everybody probably knows, that I think iTV is a POS.

Hm.... size isn't everything. Actually, the downloadable iTunes movie should be better than most DVD since it comes as 480p instead of 480i as on all NTSC DVD's. If the source is prestine progressive material at higer bit, it should upscale well to 1080p, atleast would be better than from a 480i DVD source in theory. However, the quality of source matterial does play a big role. Just take a look at Fifth Element Blu-Ray DVD, it barely looks better than superbit 480i SD-DVD. However, watch upconverted star wars III SD-DVD on 1080p TV, it looks almost as good as mid-grade Hi-Def material. So, 480p downloadable may look equal or better than 50GB BD-DVD movies if the title transfer quality isn't worth the Hi-Def stamp. Well.... just take a look at all Sony's 50GB BD-DVD releases.... they're 50GB full of crap...... However, Fox and others are doing well even on 25GB BD-DVD's with VC-1 or H264AVC codec.

I'm not trying to say the 480p material would equal 1080p, I'm just pointing out that when the source is handled improperly, even 1080p can't help with picture quality no more than properly handled 480p material. However, when both are handled properly, 1080p on Hi-Def format rules!
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post #1742 of 2106
getting a ps3 just for bluray is a bad idea. remember how crappy the ps2 dvd player was? i can only imagine how F'd up this player will be.

people are estimating sony shipped as little as 200k consoles for launch, then a few more after launch.

they will be lucky to get a total of 400k out there by christmas.

and how many did they say they'd have by march?

i dont see how they will move so many players here in the state considering there aren't any great games coming out for it that aren't already on current gen consoles or on the 360, they are basically banking on brand loyalty.
post #1743 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker

I have to say that your argument is ridiculous.

How can say iTV is going to be better than High Definition disk that holds 50+ gigs of data?

Because if its done right it offers you instant access to your entire library of video titles either locally from your NAS or remotely streamed from iTunes?

Vinea
post #1744 of 2106
You know, I've been a Blu-ray partisan from way back, but I was SO close to pulling the trigger on an HD DVD player last night. One thing that's stopping me is that the upconversion feature only works via HDMI, and my TV is component only. So I'd have to ADD this freaking huge Toshiba box to my current upconverting DVD player. Stupid studios and their piracy paranoia!

But I'm longing to see "Superman Returns" in high-def, and there are several other movies on HD DVD I'd love to have as well. So far the only Blu-ray exclusive that I'd absolutely have to have is the "Kingdom of Heaven" director's cut.
post #1745 of 2106
then i found this today

//Sony will be shipping off 100,000 PS3 units each week to all retail stores. There goal is to ship off one million PlayStation 3 units by the end of the year.

Expect to find the consoles in the stores on Friday's. There isn't expected to be more than six PlayStation 3's at each store. Call your local retailers to confirm that they have the PlayStation 3's before making the trip.//

wasnt 100,000 what they shipped of the PS2 a MONTH?


anyone forgotten how its doing in japan?
post #1746 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elixir

getting a ps3 just for bluray is a bad idea. remember how crappy the ps2 dvd player was? i can only imagine how F'd up this player will be.

people are estimating sony shipped as little as 200k consoles for launch, then a few more after launch.

they will be lucky to get a total of 400k out there by christmas.

and how many did they say they'd have by march?

i dont see how they will move so many players here in the state considering there aren't any great games coming out for it that aren't already on current gen consoles or on the 360, they are basically banking on brand loyalty.

Oh, you mean the PS2 DVD player that was better than any other DVD player on the sub-$800 market at the time?
post #1747 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elixir

i can only imagine

so its opinion ONLY then?
post #1748 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker

I have to say that your argument is ridiculous.

agreed!


Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker

I also have to say, but everybody probably knows, that I think iTV is a POS.

im tending to agree with that too... unless and until we see steve pull something BETTER out of his ass in Jan or when ever its READY... i dont think its READY yet though, do you?
post #1749 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trendannoyer

so its opinion ONLY then?

yeah, and my opinion will be backed up once you see the crazy amounts of people having bluray failures.
post #1750 of 2106
I still don't believe that the PS3 is going to be used to watch BluRay movies. Just like I don't believe the argument that the PS2 was primarily responsible for the explosion of the original DVD.

I think I'm going to go with HD-DVD.
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post #1751 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate

I still don't believe that the PS3 is going to be used to watch BluRay movies. Just like I don't believe the argument that the PS2 was primarily responsible for the explosion of the original DVD.

I think I'm going to go with HD-DVD.

I agree. I think PS2 happened to have the DVD playback feature when the DVD popularity exploded, but not the other way around. I have a relative who had set up the PS2 as a DVD player in the kids room, but kids never watch DVD's in the kids room.
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post #1752 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate

I still don't believe that the PS3 is going to be used to watch BluRay movies. Just like I don't believe the argument that the PS2 was primarily responsible for the explosion of the original DVD.

opinion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate

I think I'm going to go with HD-DVD.

choice
post #1753 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elixir

yeah, and my opinion will be backed up once you see the crazy amounts of people having bluray failures.


i wonder will this thread be left alone for a year, it sure would be interesting to come back to it and laugh heartily at whoever proved to be wrong through a lack of super time /space x-ray goggles
post #1754 of 2106
Meanwhile Nintendo is saying they have sold 600,000 Wii boxes in 8 days in NA ... VERY interesting.
thats 6000 odd Wiis in an hour or 104 a min!

is there actually ANY hope of Sony recovering ANYTHING?

will there be a 2 tear structure to the gaming market?

no-ones YET managed to do 3 terms as current console gen leader.. could nintendo end up back in 1st place? or have m$ actually ALREADY got to critical mass?

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post #1755 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrunoBruin

You know, I've been a Blu-ray partisan from way back, but I was SO close to pulling the trigger on an HD DVD player last night. One thing that's stopping me is that the upconversion feature only works via HDMI, and my TV is component only. So I'd have to ADD this freaking huge Toshiba box to my current upconverting DVD player. Stupid studios and their piracy paranoia!

But I'm longing to see "Superman Returns" in high-def, and there are several other movies on HD DVD I'd love to have as well. So far the only Blu-ray exclusive that I'd absolutely have to have is the "Kingdom of Heaven" director's cut.


Are you saying that HD-DVD does not require HDMI for full 1080P HD viewing?
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post #1756 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elixir

getting a ps3 just for bluray is a bad idea. remember how crappy the ps2 dvd player was? i can only imagine how F'd up this player will be.

people are estimating sony shipped as little as 200k consoles for launch, then a few more after launch.

they will be lucky to get a total of 400k out there by christmas.

and how many did they say they'd have by march?

i dont see how they will move so many players here in the state considering there aren't any great games coming out for it that aren't already on current gen consoles or on the 360, they are basically banking on brand loyalty.


Well MacWord recently reviewed the PS3 BRD player, and said the picture was much crisper than the $1,500.00 BRD player they reviewed two weeks earlier. Which was a very favorable review for using the PS3 as a BR-HD-DVD player IMO.
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post #1757 of 2106


I remember the talk going around before the PS2 went on sale. Having a DVD player in the PS2 seemed to be a big deal with lots of folks. Stand alone players were very expensive, and I wondered how Sony could afford to include one in a game console.

My son wanted a Game Cube at the time, so I never considered the PS2 as a DVD player, at first. The Game Cube's price was the deciding factor for my son who had to buy it out of his saved allowance.

Many of his friends were getting the PS2, however, and it became apparent that he would rather have the PS2, except for price.

So, I struck a deal with him. He paid the price of a Game Cube, and I paid the difference for a PS2. In return, we all got to watch DVD movies on the PS2, which sat in the living room by the TV. It worked so well that I didn't buy a DVD player until the prices dropped to well under $100.

post #1758 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker

Are you saying that HD-DVD does not require HDMI for full 1080P HD viewing?

in the case of xbox360 add on, you only need VGA or component to view 1080p at this time, however, on the stand alone HD-DVD player, you need HDCP compliance via digital interconnects to view in hi-def resolutions. BTW, BrunoBruin was talking about upconverting SD-DVD on HD-DVD player on component out.
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post #1759 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac

in the case of xbox360 add on, you only need VGA or component to view 1080p at this time, however, on the stand alone HD-DVD player, you need HDCP compliance via digital interconnects to view in hi-def resolutions. BTW, BrunoBruin was talking about upconverting SD-DVD on HD-DVD player on component out.


I missed that connection, but I should have known because my upconvert is the same way.
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post #1760 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trendannoyer

opinion



choice

Duh.

And ... duh.
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