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Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD (2006) - Page 48

post #1881 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elixir

and that is absolute goddamn BS! any time i get to call up the internet company or phone company i give them hell.

it's absolute horse crap the kind of monopoly these stupid companies have, its an absolute joke. we have the worst internet and we're in the damn U.S OF A

seriously wtf?? it drives me up the wall when i think about it.

Exactly.


Anyways...

Despite more movies being available on HD-DVD, Sony has by far more studios supporting it, and these Studios will start to crank out a lot of movies in 2007. This will catch Blu-Ray up with HD-DVD, if not surpass them, in terms of content. Then there is the final thing that could kill Sony: $$$. Sony needs to get their player cost down to be within $50 of HD-DVD or consumers will just by HD-DVD and studios and the industry will ditch Blu-Ray to follow the winds of the market. If sony can get the prices down, there is smooth sailing for them.
post #1882 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker

It's obvious to me why Blu Ray, and PS3 is getting bashed initially. It's second out of the gate, and the availability of the PS3 is hard to come by. Frustration with the availability, and price of the format has driven many to jump the gun and buy the other format. Thus when the BR, and PS3 devices become more readily available and more people get them, HD-DVD buyers are looking at possible loosing battle in the future, and a dead end on their initial investment in HD-DVD. Badmouthing it as much as possible (the proof is in this thread) is the best way to turn users, which in turn gains them more advocates to help them back up their investment. I'm not that foolish or impatient, and I still see the greater benefits of the BR format. I can wait til mid 2007.

Blu-ray players are already more available. There is the Philips, Samsung, Pioneer, Panasonic and now Sony units. When someone jumps the gun and buys HD DVD they don't suddenly abandon the format. Those people are buying HD DVD movies...that's not good for Blu-ray. Will Blu-ray sell more players? Yes. But will they sell at a faster rate than HD DVD for dedicated players? That's unknown really. The assumption that Blu-ray will suddenly pick up steam is what many of you are clinging to. The A2 is already selling very well at Best Buys across the country. If you think you're going to see some greater benefit of Blu-ray you're simply deluding yourself. Warner, Paramount and any other neuteral studio is simply going to use the same encode for video. Thus you won't see a specific high bitrate Blu-ray version it'll look the same as the HD DVD version. That means there's no incentive for someone with a HD DVD player to buy Blu-ray because the players are more expensive on the average.

I'm not hating on Blu-ray.. the format wasn't really ready to launch this year. HD DVD has a clear lead. You guys have to come up with a bit more than fantasy to explain how Blu-ray is going to take the lead. The playstation really isn't blowing the world away. Hell the Wii has sold more players and Xbox 360 is selling well. By march 2007 we'll pretty much know if Blu-ray is going to be a factor or not. This is really do or die time for Sony. That's not FUD that's just being honest.
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post #1883 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison

Blu-ray players are already more available. There is the Philips, Samsung, Pioneer, Panasonic and now Sony units. When someone jumps the gun and buys HD DVD they don't suddenly abandon the format. Those people are buying HD DVD movies...that's not good for Blu-ray. Will Blu-ray sell more players? Yes. But will they sell at a faster rate than HD DVD for dedicated players? That's unknown really. The assumption that Blu-ray will suddenly pick up steam is what many of you are clinging to. The A2 is already selling very well at Best Buys across the country. If you think you're going to see some greater benefit of Blu-ray you're simply deluding yourself. Warner, Paramount and any other neuteral studio is simply going to use the same encode for video. Thus you won't see a specific high bitrate Blu-ray version it'll look the same as the HD DVD version. That means there's no incentive for someone with a HD DVD player to buy Blu-ray because the players are more expensive on the average.

I'm not hating on Blu-ray.. the format wasn't really ready to launch this year. HD DVD has a clear lead. You guys have to come up with a bit more than fantasy to explain how Blu-ray is going to take the lead. The playstation really isn't blowing the world away. Hell the Wii has sold more players and Xbox 360 is selling well. By march 2007 we'll pretty much know if Blu-ray is going to be a factor or not. This is really do or die time for Sony. That's not FUD that's just being honest.

similar things could have been and WERE said about Apples "LATE" entry into the MP3 Player market.. and ARE being said about the Zoon.

all it takes is enough momentum, and at the moment i dont think EITHER player has enough of that, as i keep saying WAIT 6 months, then chime in with who is "winning"

*I* will still admire you for sticking to your guns even IF Blu ray is the dominant format
post #1884 of 2106
heres a quote for those of you banging on about attatchment rates of the HD-DVD add on for the 360

//It has taken Sony only 4 weeks to outsell the Xbox360 in Japan. Recent news from Japan reports that the Sony PlayStation 3 has recently sold over 187,000 units compared to Microsoft's Xbox360 which is sitting pretty at around 178,000 units. Media Create, the Japaneses tracking organization, is responsible for keeping track of the product sales for each major gaming company. They have also reported that it took Microsoft 52 weeks to sell the number of Xbox360s they are currently at.//

well SOME people are SO keen on numbers when it suits them
post #1885 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trendannoyer

heres a quote for those of you banging on about attatchment rates of the HD-DVD add on for the 360

//It has taken Sony only 4 weeks to outsell the Xbox360 in Japan. Recent news from Japan reports that the Sony PlayStation 3 has recently sold over 187,000 units compared to Microsoft's Xbox360 which is sitting pretty at around 178,000 units. Media Create, the Japaneses tracking organization, is responsible for keeping track of the product sales for each major gaming company. They have also reported that it took Microsoft 52 weeks to sell the number of Xbox360s they are currently at.//

well SOME people are SO keen on numbers when it suits them


i love how people hang on the japenese market.

its hard for any american company to pull through over there. they are such freaking loyalists, especially with sony. sony IS japans company, its going to be hard for microsoft to do much there.


i still think nintendo will pull ahead of sony there however
post #1886 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickag

I also was considering a HD LCD or Plasma since the prices are really coming down. I ruled out a plasma though. At that Best Buy they had a large plasma marked down that was returned due to burn in.

The original buyer had run it exclusively on 4:3 aspect ratio so the left side and right side had a very noticeable lines running vertically down the screen. Since most of the programming I would be receiving would be 4:3 I wouldn't want to spend that kind of money and have the same problem. I thought that the plasma manufacturers had solved this burn in problem?

Looks like I'll be holding off getting an HD TV for awhile until most all stations broadcast HD.

Here's the thing with HD...if you sit far enough away it makes little difference between 720 and 1080. Sit really far away and you won't be able to tell much difference between 480 and 1080.

It turns out that the smaller the screen the further folks sit away from it. Odd but there are a couple of studies on that. So HD benefits the folks at AVS the most...as they tend to have the largest screens and you can really see problems when you blow them up to that size. They also sit closer than most average folks in terms of ratio (seating distance in terms of screen height).

The whole HD spec is designed to provide 30 degrees horizontal field of view with at 1 pixel per degree pixel density...which is the rule of thumb for human visual acuity. I'll buy a 1080 TV eventually but realize that in the family I'm likely the only one that will sit close enough to really care between a HD TV and a good ED TV. Likewise, I'll eventually do HD-DVD or BR but in reality the best I can project is 720 onto my screen.

Vinea
post #1887 of 2106
What brand was that burn-in with? You won't get that with a Panasonic plasma, because the side bars are gray, and it looks better in stretched mode anyway (where the 480i center image is left alone, and the sides are pulled out - I only notice it when butts get enormous at the edges of the American Idol stage).
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post #1888 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea

Here's the thing with HD...if you sit far enough away it makes little difference between 720 and 1080. Sit really far away and you won't be able to tell much difference between 480 and 1080.

It turns out that the smaller the screen the further folks sit away from it. Odd but there are a couple of studies on that. So HD benefits the folks at AVS the most...as they tend to have the largest screens and you can really see problems when you blow them up to that size. They also sit closer than most average folks in terms of ratio (seating distance in terms of screen height).

The whole HD spec is designed to provide 30 degrees horizontal field of view with at 1 pixel per degree pixel density...which is the rule of thumb for human visual acuity. I'll buy a 1080 TV eventually but realize that in the family I'm likely the only one that will sit close enough to really care between a HD TV and a good ED TV. Likewise, I'll eventually do HD-DVD or BR but in reality the best I can project is 720 onto my screen.

Vinea

Thank you for the response and the information on resolutions and viewing.

Do you have any information on problems plasma screens have with burn in?

edited stupid spelling.
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post #1889 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickag

Thank you for the response and the information on resolutions and viewing.

Do you have any information on problems plasma screens have with burn in?

edited stupid spelling.

ALL Plasmas can suffer from burn in... INCLUDING Panasonic... its not the company its the technology..

although if you follow certian rules to run it in (for around 200 hours) you can reduce the risk, but then channel logos can still be an issue
post #1890 of 2106
Trendannoyer

Thanks.
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post #1891 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trendannoyer

ALL Plasmas can suffer from burn in... INCLUDING Panasonic... its not the company its the technology..

although if you follow certian rules to run it in (for around 200 hours) you can reduce the risk, but then channel logos can still be an issue

I have no burn in with my panasonic, and I abuse it many hours a day with video games (which are the worst for burn in due to stationary status bars and such).
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post #1892 of 2106
Today's plasmas are reputed to be much better than before. Folks on AVS say that with proper care there should be any issue with 4:3 viewing. I haven't been on AVS for a bit but its a good place to look for information if you're going to buy soon. I usually pop in for a couple months before just to get a feel for the market.

Just understand that the folks there are going to have slightly more critical opinions than most folks who aren't videophiles. I can read a CIE chart but honestly, without a reference system I can live with orangey reds and so-so blacks in exchange for other things (like price, ease of use or brightness). Some folks there feel differently. That's a projector thing BTW not a Plasma thing. I'm sure there are Plasma quirks that you can read about.

Vinea
post #1893 of 2106
Thread Starter 
Sorry to burst the bubbles of the Amazon card carrying, HD DVD hopefuls here, but...

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents

Quote:
"Okay... now for a bit of high-def news. I said on Friday that you can expect some major title announcements at the Consumer Electronics Show (CES) in January. Well, I wasn't kidding and we've got a bit of follow-up for you.

I've just spoken today with Eric Maehara, VP of Communications for Buena Vista Home Entertainment. He informed me that the studio is planning to announce a MAJOR Blu-ray Disc release line-up for the first half of 2007 at CES. In addition, he reiterated to me in no uncertain terms that BVHE has no plans to support HD-DVD, despite persistent online rumors to the contrary.

I've also spoken this afternoon with Steve Feldstein, Senior VP of Corporate and Marketing Communications for 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment. He likewise confirmed that Fox has no plans to support HD-DVD, and that the studio will also be announcing additional Blu-ray Disc titles at CES."

Maybe it will be finally China's chance to shine for HD DVD as some of you have stated, because certainly Disney and Fox aren't going to help them...they'll most likely help burying them.
post #1894 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by marzetta7

Sorry to burst the Amazon card carrying, HD DVD hopefuls here, but...

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents



Maybe it will be finally China's chance to shine for HD DVD as some of you have stated, because certainly Disney and Fox aren't going to help them...they'll most likely help burying them.


That's got to be a bit devastating. If it's true.
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post #1895 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker

That's got to be a bit devastating. If it's true.


it's a bit hard to swallow to be honest. i mean how far down the hole will these companies go with bluray? i cant imagine them sticking around much longer if the ps3 doesn't shine, and the numbers dont improve.
post #1896 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elixir

it's a bit hard to swallow to be honest. i mean how far down the hole will these companies go with bluray? i cant imagine them sticking around much longer if the ps3 doesn't shine, and the numbers dont improve.

It's not that surprising or hard to swallow if you think about it. The studio's wanted Blu Ray from the get go. These are the backers. This is what they wanted. Disney is a perfect example. Like I said. I'm not that impatient. Blu Ray got out of the gate half a year later. Moves like this seem more obvious than anything.
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post #1897 of 2106
Folks

BVHE distributes Disney movies. Disney is the company we want. I don't give a shat about BVHE. Although I don't think that we'll see Disney onboard until mid 2007.
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post #1898 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison

BVHE distributes Disney movies. Disney is the company we want. I don't give a shat about BVHE.

JLL

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post #1899 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978

I have no burn in with my panasonic, and I abuse it many hours a day with video games (which are the worst for burn in due to stationary status bars and such).


YOU dont, i said all plasmas CAN suffer from it, its the tech not the maker

im delighted you dont though, but it IS something people need to be aware of as a potential downfall, CRT being at the top of its game as a technology has spoilt us.
post #1900 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by marzetta7

Sorry to burst the Amazon card carrying, HD DVD hopefuls here


that made me laugh
post #1901 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trendannoyer

YOU dont, i said all plasmas CAN suffer from it, its the tech not the maker

im delighted you dont though, but it IS something people need to be aware of as a potential downfall, CRT being at the top of its game as a technology has spoilt us.

Panasonic moves the pixels around a bit, and uses every trick in the book to avoid burn in. I have never seen a Panasonic plasma that was burned in. If you know otherwise (i.e. have seen a burned in Panasonic plasma in generation 7 or higher) then I concede.

They use them for static airport displays now without burn in, for god's sake.

" The rule of thumb: if you don't worry about your traditional tube TV, you don't have to worry about a Panasonic plasma TV."

http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs...upId=24973#tv1
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post #1902 of 2106
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison

Folks

BVHE distributes Disney movies. Disney is the company we want. I don't give a shat about BVHE. Although I don't think that we'll see Disney onboard until mid 2007.

You should, as BVHE is a wholly owned susidiary of Disney and are NOT backing HD DVD whatsoever because their owner and parent company, Disney, is NOT backing HD DVD whatsoever.

You really are grasping at straws at this point. Disney is Blu-ray exclusive and will not change unless Blu-ray completely goes down in flames--and with STILL the majority of CE, IT, and studio support, that's not going to happen. So, the probability of your claim to have Disney on board with HD DVD mid 2007?...Zero.

Next thing you know, Apple will be releasing Mac Pros with built in Blu-ray drives, and you'll be trying to tell us how their format agnostic still.
post #1903 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by marzetta7


Next thing you know, Apple will be releasing Mac Pros with built in Blu-ray drives, and you'll be trying to tell us how their format agnostic still.

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/12...lu-ray_laptop/

FYI, Dell's taking orders for a Blu-Ray laptop.

post #1904 of 2106
Yawn.

What's the guy supposed to say? "Oh sure we're going HD DVD in a few months" Disney pulls the strings here. I don't want to hear from some lackey about what he thinks. You're grasping at straws. Bob Iger has stated he thinks they'll eventually support both formats. So therefore YOUR straws are a wee bit shorter than mine bucko.
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post #1905 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker

It's not that surprising or hard to swallow if you think about it. The studio's wanted Blu Ray from the get go. These are the backers. This is what they wanted. Disney is a perfect example. Like I said. I'm not that impatient. Blu Ray got out of the gate half a year later. Moves like this seem more obvious than anything.

Empty your heads first...... You really think someone in executive position will spill out all the beans few weeks before any type of announcements?.....Some may get fired for pre-mature announcements of such. The only point of writing such article or news flash is to get hits on the website... Eitherway, I don't think anyone really expected anyone jumping ships this early. I'd assume something will surface as early as end of 1st quarter 2007 with more sales # to support the decision. The CES 2007 will be the last big stand BD/Sony will make before falling..... Titanic will not sink w/out a splash.......

Well..... let the future unfold itself..... I can wait without all the lies and FUD.

BTW.... for you BD supporters, have you guys got anything yet that plays BD-DVD?.... If none of you support the format, then who will? Lip service can go so far.

At least, many of the HD-DVD supporters actually have something at home that can play HD-DVD movies.
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post #1906 of 2106
Toshiba was quoted as saying there were no 2nd generation players coming in 2006 and guess what they shipped this week? 2nd Generation units.

Currently right now according to the DVD Wars Blu-ray is simply not picking up much stream. Right now this war isn't being fueled by the hardware companies. The studios need to look at their actions and realize that consumers are pissed about these exclusive hardware deals.

These are the same studios forcing movie goers to watch their little speil about piracy. Hey doesn't a half million enthusiastic movie lovers warrant some support?
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post #1907 of 2106
The war hasn't hardly started. The Blu Ray players, and PS3 aren't even a month old. No they are no where near war yet. Right now it's all about sending a message. Disney sent one, Dell sent one. More to come. It's not even a month in on the BR side.
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post #1908 of 2106
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison

Toshiba was quoted as saying there were no 2nd generation players coming in 2006 and guess what they shipped this week? 2nd Generation units.

Currently right now according to the DVD Wars Blu-ray is simply not picking up much stream. Right now this war isn't being fueled by the hardware companies. The studios need to look at their actions and realize that consumers are pissed about these exclusive hardware deals.

These are the same studios forcing movie goers to watch their little speil about piracy. Hey doesn't a half million enthusiastic movie lovers warrant some support?

Yeah 2nd generation units that have garnered so much popularity that even websites on the Internet refer to them as Blu-ray drives...

http://www.tech2.com/india/news/home...y-drive/3249/0

^^^Check the full URL when you click the link. The title of the article looks to have been changed but it shows up as "Toshiba Ships Second Gen Blu-ray Drive" on Google. So much for the "simply not picking up much steam" comment.

I guess will have 1 more year to endure of you and others claiming studios will be switching. Even publicly official statements aren't good enough. More secret theories and unsubstantiated rumors--pretty much what we're used to with a lot of HD DVD proponents.

What is there to be pissed about as consumers? You get 90% of studio movies with Blu-ray. You get Panasonic, Pioneer, Sony, Philips, Sharp, Samsung, LG, and other with Blu-ray. You get Apple, Dell, HP, Acer, LiteOn, and others with Blu-ray. That's what I call choice. Stop trying to paint Blu-ray as the bad guy here, when it is simply Toshiba and Microsoft who is trying to stuff their format down consumers throats, when they know the industry is not on their side.

And that is just it to put it in a nutshell, the industry is NOT on HD DVD's side.
post #1909 of 2106
"Marzetta7 I have only my dreams. I have spread my dreams under your feet. Tread softly because you tread on my dreams"
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post #1910 of 2106
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison

"Marzetta7 I have only my dreams. I have spread my dreams under your feet. Tread softly because you tread on my dreams"

Hahahahaha. Good one Mr. Yeats... Will do.
post #1911 of 2106
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trendannoyer

that made me laugh

I'm glad it gave you a chuckle. One of my favorites on some other boards on the net was from a poster dobyblue, who described ol Murch's plight of HD DVD domination as "Miracle on Murchison Street."
post #1912 of 2106
The Wii and Playstation 3 are already outselling the Xbox 360. While the Playstation 2 is still outselling the Xbox 360.

01 - Wii - 350,358 (350,358
02 - Nintendo DS Lite - 176,901 (6,132,183)
03 - PlayStation 3 - 31,436 (187,836)
04 - PlayStation Portable - 23,917 (4,246,974)
05 - PlayStation 2 - 23,115 (20,002,291)
06 - Xbox 360 - 4,053 (178,069)
07 - Game Boy Advance SP - 1,572 (5,907,676)
08 - Game Boy Micro - 1,252 (552,408
09 - GameCube - 821 (4,165,650)
10 - Nintendo DS - 140 (6,581,54)
post #1913 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell

The Wii and Playstation 3 are already outselling the Xbox 360. While the Playstation 2 is still outselling the Xbox 360.

01 - Wii - 350,358 (350,358
02 - Nintendo DS Lite - 176,901 (6,132,183)
03 - PlayStation 3 - 31,436 (187,836)
04 - PlayStation Portable - 23,917 (4,246,974)
05 - PlayStation 2 - 23,115 (20,002,291)
06 - Xbox 360 - 4,053 (178,069)
07 - Game Boy Advance SP - 1,572 (5,907,676)
08 - Game Boy Micro - 1,252 (552,408
09 - GameCube - 821 (4,165,650)
10 - Nintendo DS - 140 (6,581,54)

You really think only 4k units of xbox360 were sold totalling 178k accumulative units sold over a year? At least it's very predictable that such quality post only comes from BD fanatics. Shame on you!
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post #1914 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac

You really think only 4k units of xbox360 were sold totalling 178k accumulative units sold over a year? At least it's very predictable that such quality post only comes from BD fanatics. Shame on you!

I'm to lazy to do so, but one could compare release of xbox vs. release of wii or PS3.
post #1915 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by icfireball

I'm to lazy to do so, but one could compare release of xbox vs. release of wii or PS3.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History..._generation%29

Microsoft Xbox 360\t7 million[1]\tNovember 22, 2005
Nintendo Wii\t1 million[2]\tNovember 19, 2006
Sony PlayStation 3\t200,000[3]\tNovember 11, 2006

Keep in mind that currently, both Wii and PS3 sales are limited by supply, so until supply and demand stabilizes, these numbers are completely useless in terms of determining demand or future sales.
post #1916 of 2106
Sony PS3 is limited in supply, and still has the highest demand even though consumers were upset in the first few weeks because of a lack of systems. Now they are just holding out, and waiting every morning at outlets to see if any shipments come in. The target near me gets in about 10 a week. I imagine the Best Buy, and other electronics stores are getting in far more. But they are still gone in minutes.
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post #1917 of 2106
Quote:
At least it's very predictable that such quality post only comes from BD fanatics. Shame on you!

Whoops you are right. I didn't read the article clearly enough.

These are the numbers in Japan.
post #1918 of 2106
Quote:
when it is simply Toshiba and Microsoft who is trying to stuff their format down consumers throats, when they know the industry is not on their side.

Huh? Last I checked a lot more than Toshiba and Microsoft supported HD-DVD. Aside from the backing of the DVD Forum, you have RCA, NEC, Sanyo, Canon, Hitachi Maxell, Kenwood, Mitsubishi, Onkyo, Apple, HP, and Intel, among others. Sure, a lot of these guys are backing Blu-Ray, but to say that HD-DVD is a 2 man show is VERY misleading.

In terms of major studios, HD DVD is currently exclusively backed by Universal Studios, The Weinstein Company (through Genius Products), HBO, Image Entertainment, and New Line Cinema. They also have the backing (non exclusive) of Paramount Pictures, Warner Bros., Magnolia Pictures, Brentwood Home Video, Warner Music Group, Ryko, Goldhil Entertainment, and Studio Canal.

We have a lot to go before one or the other is crowned champ. and universal players might still become a reality, and we could have a DVD+-R deal, where who cares what you buy.
post #1919 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by marzetta7

I'm glad it gave you a chuckle. One of my favorites on some other boards on the net was from a poster dobyblue, who described ol Murch's plight of HD DVD domination as "Miracle on Murchison Street."

Did he really? I missed that. That little impish Hogwart elf.

Man ole man I really want an Xbox but then I know I'll get hooked on gaming ...again. What's a guy to do?
He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
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He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
Reply
post #1920 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison

Did he really? I missed that. That little impish Hogwart elf.

Man ole man I really want an Xbox but then I know I'll get hooked on gaming ...again. What's a guy to do?

Settle for an Mbox 360?
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