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Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD (2006) - Page 49

post #1921 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison

Did he really? I missed that. That little impish Hogwart elf.

Man ole man I really want an Xbox but then I know I'll get hooked on gaming ...again. What's a guy to do?

dont get it, i warn you, dont get it

i've been playing Gears of War none stop. its not good for your social life.

however, if you dont have a social life to begin with then hell go get yourself one and enjoy.
post #1922 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregmightdothat

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History..._generation%29

Microsoft Xbox 360\t7 million[1]\tNovember 22, 2005
Nintendo Wii\t1 million[2]\tNovember 19, 2006
Sony PlayStation 3\t200,000[3]\tNovember 11, 2006

Keep in mind that currently, both Wii and PS3 sales are limited by supply, so until supply and demand stabilizes, these numbers are completely useless in terms of determining demand or future sales.

Actually, the demand on the PS3 isn't as high anymore. You can check out the recent ebay sales and PS3's are selling around merely $100 more than the retail price. However, Wii is selling at higher markup % than PS3.

Think about it... only 200k PS3 units sold during the strongest sales season of the year, and the demand not as strong as Wii which already sold 1 million units......... Something's fishy about the the PR regarding PS3, if the demand with scarce supply dies down this quickly in the holiday season, what would happen when holidays are over?... I'm sure some people will return PS3's for Wii and the demand will be even more depressing for PS3.

Anyway, I have a prediction that Samsung, the first BD player manufacturer will be the first to bail out of BD exclusive hardware market. PS3's killing off the niche BD player market which already was in trouble due to unpopular over priced hardwares.
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post #1923 of 2106
Yeah right bitemymac. Just because ebay isn't selling them for as much as they were when people thought that first shipment was going to be the only one before xmas doesn't mean that demand isn't high. Since the launch, PS3's are shipping in a few times weekly to retailers in small numbers. That is why the price has fallen. People are waiting outside retailers every morning knowing they still get them at retail cost if they try. No one is going to pay that much for something that they can get themselves at their local Target, wall-mart, best buy, and so on.
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post #1924 of 2106
bitemymac..

would it suit you if sony made an announcment that they plan on only selling 4 PS3s next year?

and that comment you made about Tenobell sounded to me like borderline personal insult


CHILL OUT GUYS!


ooo soon be 50 pages deep
post #1925 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac

Actually, the demand on the PS3 isn't as high anymore. You can check out the recent ebay sales and PS3's are selling around merely $100 more than the retail price. However, Wii is selling at higher markup % than PS3.

Think about it... only 200k PS3 units sold during the strongest sales season of the year, and the demand not as strong as Wii which already sold 1 million units......... Something's fishy about the the PR regarding PS3, if the demand with scarce supply dies down this quickly in the holiday season, what would happen when holidays are over?... I'm sure some people will return PS3's for Wii and the demand will be even more depressing for PS3.

Anyway, I have a prediction that Samsung, the first BD player manufacturer will be the first to bail out of BD exclusive hardware market. PS3's killing off the niche BD player market which already was in trouble due to unpopular over priced hardwares.

Are Wii's still being delivered to stores like the PS3's are?
post #1926 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregmightdothat

Are Wii's still being delivered to stores like the PS3's are?

well they are HERE
post #1927 of 2106
truthfully, i've been seeing an overall lapse in enthusiasm for the PS3.

i see it in multiple boards, news outlets, magazines, and the like.

even a majority of my friends that were so eagerly anticipating the arrival of the ps3 are backing down, have turned a bit hesitant.

this can all change come spring time. the wii could be sitting on shelves and the ps3 could be flying high but something tells me no.

a $600 price tag is still a $600 price tag. if you could careless for bluray than there is zero reason at this point to go get a ps3 and not a 360, and if you want something different then get a Wii.
post #1928 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elixir

a $600 price tag is still a $600 price tag. if you could careless for bluray than there is zero reason at this point to go get a ps3 and not a 360, and if you want something different then get a Wii.

agreed... but for GT HD and GT 5 ...mainly GT5 but as thats not till 2008... then why bother?

i can see that if i was on a PC (shudder) then a nice closed internet access machine (PS3) would be appealing, but really my needs are met with the mac and GT4 on the PS2 FOR NOW im ready to wait, PS3 isnt out here till march so thats an easy 3 months before i need to make any commitment to it IF i decide to... it allows time for eBlu ray to get more titles, OR HD-DVD to become more apparent that its the dominant format.

in the mean time a Wii, or not? well i can see the appeal for xmas.. but again ive decided to wait and see what ITS market of games etc. is like in 3 months... still i could at least impluse buy IT before xmas.. unlike the PS3
post #1929 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregmightdothat

Are Wii's still being delivered to stores like the PS3's are?


Yes, and in greater #'s. Not as many people are aware of it though. It's not in as high of demand as a PS3 is. PS3 is the hardest thing to get this year. Not everyone will get them, there wont be enough. Even the TMX Elmo is still shipping. I just got one two days ago.
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post #1930 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker

Yes, and in greater #'s. Not as many people are aware of it though. It's not in as high of demand as a PS3 is. PS3 is the hardest thing to get this year. Not everyone will get them, there wont be enough. Even the TMX Elmo is still shipping. I just got one two days ago.


i dont know about that. its tough to say the demand for the ps3 is bigger since there isn't a great amount of systems available.

look at how many wii's are being shipped weekly, i mean they have sold over 1millino consoles already... thats a lot of wii's.

the ps3 is pushing out less than what the 360 did on its launch.
post #1931 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elixir

truthfully, i've been seeing an overall lapse in enthusiasm for the PS3.

i see it in multiple boards, news outlets, magazines, and the like.

even a majority of my friends that were so eagerly anticipating the arrival of the ps3 are backing down, have turned a bit hesitant.

this can all change come spring time. the wii could be sitting on shelves and the ps3 could be flying high but something tells me no.

a $600 price tag is still a $600 price tag. if you could careless for bluray than there is zero reason at this point to go get a ps3 and not a 360, and if you want something different then get a Wii.

$600 !!!! I'm not a gamer and don't keep up with what companies are charging, but holy cow $600. At that price the console should play the game for you.
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post #1932 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elixir

i dont know about that. its tough to say the demand for the ps3 is bigger since there isn't a great amount of systems available.

look at how many wii's are being shipped weekly, i mean they have sold over 1millino consoles already... thats a lot of wii's.

the ps3 is pushing out less than what the 360 did on its launch.

I'm not sure I get correlation between the PS3 launch and the xbox one, but demand by my standards in this situation is that Wii can sit on the sales floor most of the day and be sold out at the end. PS3 can not make it to the area where they get stocked before people snatch them up. That is demand. After seeing that situation every few days is why I think that PS3 is in higher demand.
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post #1933 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickag

$600 !!!! I'm not a gamer and don't keep up with what companies are charging, but holy cow $600. At that price the console should play the game for you.


I think of it as a BR-DVD player with a can of gaming whoop ass included. Basically $400 gaming system, and BR DVD player for $200, or vice verse.
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post #1934 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker

I think of it as a BR-DVD player with a can of gaming whoop ass included. Basically $400 gaming system, and BR DVD player for $200, or vice verse.

Maybe it's time I look to upgrade my Nintendo Game Cube. But $600??

Even $400 for the xBox 360 seems high.

Nintendo Wii for $600 -- surely this was a misprint. Oh, it was someone price gouging. Best Buy lists for $250.

As hard as Apple is pushing HD for iMovie, Final Cut Express and Final Cut Pro, it will be facinating to see how they handle the Blue Ray vs HD DVD conflicts.
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post #1935 of 2106
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickag

Maybe it's time I look to upgrade my Nintendo Game Cube. But $600??

Even $400 for the xBox 360 seems high.

Nintendo Wii for $600 -- surely this was a misprint. Oh, it was someone price gouging. Best Buy lists for $250.

As hard as Apple is pushing HD for iMovie, Final Cut Express and Final Cut Pro, it will be facinating to see how they handle the Blue Ray vs HD DVD conflicts.

Rememer too that you can get a PS3 for $499 as well, but with a smaller hard drive (20GB) and no support for memory cards.
post #1936 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker

I'm not sure I get correlation between the PS3 launch and the xbox one, but demand by my standards in this situation is that Wii can sit on the sales floor most of the day and be sold out at the end. PS3 can not make it to the area where they get stocked before people snatch them up. That is demand. After seeing that situation every few days is why I think that PS3 is in higher demand.

not to be rude but you may not have a decent grasp on the basic supply and demand concept.

everyone knew the ps3 was going to sell out, just like everyone knew the 360 was going to sell out becasue the supply is/was limited.

if the 360 came out with 5 million consoles on launch day they may have not sold out, you may have seen consoles sitting on the shelves (or as your example of the wii) may not have sold out until the end of the day.

but since the 360 (ps3 even less) didn't have enough supply to meet that initial crazed demand they were gobbled up quickly. so it may appear that everyone wants a ps3, but that might not be the case.
post #1937 of 2106
I'm not a gamer so it's hard to get worked up with any enthusiasm for any of the systems. However, in moments of weakness, I keep thinking about a 20GB PS3 as a B-R player, but reason prevails and until things sort themselves a little more I'm sticking with my up-converting DVD player. Basically I don't really care which format wins, if either does make it as consumer item, but looking at the whole picture, not just from the home entertainment standpoint, B-R does seem to offer more advantages and be more future proof.

On a related note, last Saturday I had some time to kill while my wife was at a meeting so I stopped at the Everett, WA Best Buy and talked to surprisingly what seemed to be a knowledgeable sales clerk. That particular store was receiving small quantities of PS3s. They would arrive with no advanced notice and be gone in minutes. He also said that BB store employees were not allowed to buy any PS3s.

Additionally, there appeared to be plenty of Wiis on the shelve available for immediate purchase.
post #1938 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elixir

not to be rude but you may not have a decent grasp on the basic supply and demand concept.

everyone knew the ps3 was going to sell out, just like everyone knew the 360 was going to sell out becasue the supply is/was limited.

if the 360 came out with 5 million consoles on launch day they may have not sold out, you may have seen consoles sitting on the shelves (or as your example of the wii) may not have sold out until the end of the day.

but since the 360 (ps3 even less) didn't have enough supply to meet that initial crazed demand they were gobbled up quickly. so it may appear that everyone wants a ps3, but that might not be the case.

That's exactly what we've been saying. There's no way to determine what the true demand is for a few months until supplies pick up. You don't need to be a dick about it. He was just saying that it appears the Wii's supply and demand has just about reached equilibrium.
post #1939 of 2106
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison

Yawn.

What's the guy supposed to say? "Oh sure we're going HD DVD in a few months" Disney pulls the strings here. I don't want to hear from some lackey about what he thinks. You're grasping at straws. Bob Iger has stated he thinks they'll eventually support both formats. So therefore YOUR straws are a wee bit shorter than mine bucko.

Hey there my bucked format bucko...

'Pirates' DVD Previews Disney's 2007 Blu-ray Booty

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/news...-ray_Booty/390

Quote:
Offering a tantalizing preview on its recent DVD release of 'Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest,' Disney appears to have a bountiful 2007 lined up for Blu-ray fans.

In a brief teaser that appears at the beginning of the 'Dead Man's Chest' standard-def DVD release (which, coincidentally, sold over five million copies in its first day in stores), Disney presents an animated ad promoting its line-up of upcoming Blu-ray movies in 2007.

Among the impressive, high profile slate of catalog releases are such hits as the first 'Pirates of the Caribbean,' 'National Treasure,' 'Remember the Titans,' 'Father of the Bride,' 'Snow Dogs' and 'Herbie: Fully Loaded.'

Many of Disney's most famous animated classics are also included on the list, among them 'Beauty and the Beast,' 'Aladdin,' 'The Lion King' and 'Finding Nemo,' which would make the latter the first Pixar title to see release on a next-gen platform.


Oddly, however, one title not making the list is 'Dead Man's Chest' itself -- are we to take from this that Blu-ray fans will have to make do with only the original 'Pirates' in 2007?

Though Disney has not officially announced any of these titles for Blu-ray release yet, the studio is expected to make a major Blu-ray announcement at the upcoming Consumer Electronics Show (CES) held January 8-11 in Las Vegas, Nevada. All other Blu-ray and HD DVD-supporting studios are expected to unveil their 2007 title line-ups as well at the show.

We'll certainly keep you posted as more official news on Disney's future Blu-ray titles is announced, and in the meantime, we've added all of the above listings to the "Release Dates Pending" section of our Blu-ray Release Schedule.

Disney looks like Blu-ray through and through. Time to check your straws again.
post #1940 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elixir

not to be rude but you may not have a decent grasp on the basic supply and demand concept.

everyone knew the ps3 was going to sell out, just like everyone knew the 360 was going to sell out becasue the supply is/was limited.

if the 360 came out with 5 million consoles on launch day they may have not sold out, you may have seen consoles sitting on the shelves (or as your example of the wii) may not have sold out until the end of the day.

but since the 360 (ps3 even less) didn't have enough supply to meet that initial crazed demand they were gobbled up quickly. so it may appear that everyone wants a ps3, but that might not be the case.


I don't think you read into what I said.

Maybe instead of writing "demand by my standards in this situation". I should have wrote "demand as I'm defining it in this situation", so you would have an idea of what I meant. I guess it's my bad. Nevertheless, the Wii is not selling out by the end of the day any more in most places, and PS3, with it's higher price tag, is flying out doors, and gaining momentum in user popularity. Once you see one in action you remember how cool the PS1 was when it was seemingly all alone out there. It's still the hottest xmas item, and I think once units become more readily available it is going to be system to have. Actually I think it already is. I've played it, and it's freaking stellar. The demo machine does not do it justice.
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post #1941 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker

I don't think you read into what I said.

Maybe instead of writing "demand by my standards in this situation". I should have wrote "demand as I'm defining it in this situation", so you would have an idea of what I meant. I guess it's my bad. Nevertheless, the Wii is not selling out by the end of the day any more in most places, and PS3, with it's higher price tag, is flying out doors, and gaining momentum in user popularity. Once you see one in action you remember how cool the PS1 was when it was seemingly all alone out there. It's still the hottest xmas item, and I think once units become more readily available it is going to be system to have. Actually I think it already is. I've played it, and it's freaking stellar. The demo machine does not do it justice.


your opinion is your opinion, and you are totally right for it to be your own but when i check around other forums, magazines, online news sites, a majority of the consensus is that the ps3 hasn't delivered yet, and it prob wont until well into 07. it seems like most people are waiting to see what the ps3 will offer to justify the price tag.

because pretty much all the games out look better on the 360, a lot of sites liek gamespot.com have side by side comparisons, and its clearly visible from a graphics standpoint that the 360 is nicer (right now).

so again i'd argue about that "hot item" considering a majority of people who stood out in line were doing so to turn a buck, and now you have ps3's barely selling over stock value on ebay.
post #1942 of 2106
"a majority of the consensus"

Do you know what "consensus" means?

"you may not have a decent grasp on the basic supply and demand concept"

You throw out a reference to this "concept", yet the rest of your post has nothing to do with "supply & demand", except in the most remedial sense.

"its tough to say the demand for the ps3 is bigger since there isn't a great amount of systems available."

Yet you use the same information to speculate that the demand isn't bigger.

"if you could careless for bluray"

You probably mean "couldn't care less", but who knows?

post #1943 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elixir


because pretty much all the games out look better on the 360, a lot of sites liek gamespot.com have side by side comparisons, and its clearly visible from a graphics standpoint that the 360 is nicer (right now).

I guess we can all be our own judge on that

http://www.gamespot.com/features/616...&click=topslot

I looked at the first game's set of shots, and I think the lighting on the PS3 looks better. If you look at the lights in the background the 360 images blow out, and the PS3 version is more realistic, and a better photo realization.
I'm excited to see what happens after the holiday season, and game manufacturers start utilizing 1080p, and other features for the PS3.

Seeing that 360 has a better chance of selling more games through the holiday season right now is the worst time for developers to give the PS3 versions an obvious advantage. Somewhat of a shame, but I am a patient person.


I think this confirms what you said, and offers a reasonable conclusion.

Quote:
The Xbox 360 had better graphics in almost all the games we examined. The 360's biggest victories were in Madden 07 and Fight Night Round 3, where the differences in texture detail and lighting stood out in our comparison shots. We couldn't capture this in the screenshots, but the Xbox 360 games generally offered better framerates too.
We're going to give the PS3 the benefit of the doubt in this initial round since developers might need more time to figure out how to maximize performance from the Cell and the RSX. If you look at the Xbox 360's first Madden game, Madden 06, you'll notice that it doesn't offer very realistic stadium shadows, either. The trouble with buying a console at launch is that you often have to wait for the second or third generation of games for the system to fulfill its potential. The PS3 didn't beat the 360 in this first comparison, but the games do look fine for first-generation titles. The real graphics battle will likely come next year.
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post #1944 of 2106
well.... let it be 2160p games on PS3.... who cares? However, I do care that PS3 is a very poor upconverting SD-DVD player..... and xbox360 scores much higher on video playback benchmark than PS3. I'm sure Sony wil release future firmwares to address them, but what if they don't/can't?... LOL.
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post #1945 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker

Yes, and in greater #'s. Not as many people are aware of it though. It's not in as high of demand as a PS3 is. PS3 is the hardest thing to get this year. Not everyone will get them, there wont be enough. Even the TMX Elmo is still shipping. I just got one two days ago.


but whats the TMX Elmo like at 1080p ????
post #1946 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac

However, I do care that PS3 is a very poor upconverting SD-DVD player.....

Most tvs are better at upconverting than most DVD players out there.
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post #1947 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLL

Most tvs are better at upconverting than most DVD players out there.

Very true if the HDTV's are later 2006 models or 1080p's... but the older, which is majority of HDTV's are horrible and bob interlace signals while deinterlacing. Even some of the earlier 1080p Sharp LCD models had such problems.

I've not seen cheaper, less than $100, upconverting DVD players in action, but I did have oppo 971H for about a year which $200 can bring you very good upconverting performance and would knock pants off most of HDTV's out there for video processing.
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post #1948 of 2106
One word:

Price.

It all comes down to price, when the technologies are so similar.
post #1949 of 2106
My HD-A2 has just been delivered! Thanks to hmurchison for the purchasing tip. I am now officially engaged in the high-def war!

Since I fully expect this little spat to continue for the foreseeable future, I will probably pick up a Blu-ray player when the prices drop and a few must-have movies emerge. Right now there's nothing exclusive to the format that I can't live without.
post #1950 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrunoBruin

My HD-A2 has just been delivered! Thanks to hmurchison for the purchasing tip. I am now officially engaged in the high-def war!

Since I fully expect this little spat to continue for the foreseeable future, I will probably pick up a Blu-ray player when the prices drop and a few must-have movies emerge. Right now there's nothing exclusive to the format that I can't live without.

Congrats!.... Now, watch your wallet on those HD-DVD's... As for lower price BD player, I think only unit around $500 budget will be PS3 for some time, maybe even through out 2007. Unless, you want to pick up a refurb/used bd player, which is now readily available. I saw the Disney announcement on the feature titles and there were about 6 to 7 titles I wouldn't mind getting along with a PS3. But those titles won't be out untill later, which might be closer to another anouncement from Disney for neutral support on the Hi-Def format. Oh well.... I can hold off a little and try to import Disney & Fox titles from overseas for about next 6 months....
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post #1951 of 2106
Congrats Bruno.

I'm thinking that I'm going to go the Xbox route. I actually work with a bunch of Halo junkies (my bosses) actually and soon 3 of us will have Xbox. I'll get the HD DVD add on when I upgrade to a HDTV LCD. The A2 sounds like it's a solid unit. I'm pretty damn happy with where HD DVD is going and honestly I'm not going to rush but if I can't get all the movies I want by years end 2007 I'll likely buy myself a PS3 as well. Sony just needs more games that I'd be interested in and I need a HDMI AV Receiver.
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post #1952 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison

I'll likely buy myself a PS3


post #1953 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison

Congrats Bruno.

I'm thinking that I'm going to go the Xbox route. I actually work with a bunch of Halo junkies (my bosses) actually and soon 3 of us will have Xbox. I'll get the HD DVD add on when I upgrade to a HDTV LCD. The A2 sounds like it's a solid unit. I'm pretty damn happy with where HD DVD is going and honestly I'm not going to rush but if I can't get all the movies I want by years end 2007 I'll likely buy myself a PS3 as well. Sony just needs more games that I'd be interested in and I need a HDMI AV Receiver.

If you asked the average consumer what HD or B-R DVD are, in all likelihood they wouldn't have a clue. The people buying these formats now are video enthusiasts and most, like Murch, are or will buy both formats unless a "winner" emerges soon.
post #1954 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trendannoyer


Not that surprising. If you read through Murch's posts he makes it clear that while he currently prefers HD-DVD for various reasons, he would support whatever format delivers the goods.

It happens a lot on discussion boards: you've got someone who is on one side with some balance, and someone who is on the other side with complete fanaticism, and it makes it appear as if the first party is more partisan than they actually are, if only because the temptation is strong to poke some holes in a fanatics relentlessness.

Not that I'm naming names, mind you......
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post #1955 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox

Not that surprising. If you read through Murch's posts he makes it clear that while he currently prefers HD-DVD for various reasons, he would support whatever format delivers the goods.

It happens a lot on discussion boards: you've got someone who is on one side with some balance, and someone who is on the other side with complete fanaticism, and it makes it appear as if the first party is more partisan than they actually are, if only because the temptation is strong to poke some holes in a fanatics relentlessness.

Not that I'm naming names, mind you......

Very well said!.....

The irony is that most true BD fanatics should be backing their products and monetarily investing in the technology to show support, but most on this board is just another spectator rubber-necking from the other side of the fence. So, most wouldn't be considered fanatics, but just another troll with malcontent.
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post #1956 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac


The irony is that most true BD fanatics should be backing their products and monetarily investing in the technology to show support, . . .

Many of us who think that BD will succeed are not early adopters. We wait until the price drops and all the bugs are worked out. Our enthusiasm for a technology does not mean we spend our money recklessly.



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post #1957 of 2106
addabox

Bullseye. I don't hate Blu-ray but I have "chosen" my horse so to speak. However the consoles offer a really great deal. I think I'm going to go ahead and go Xbox and if I get a Blu-ray player it'll likely be a PS3. The integration of these consoles is just perfect.

I'm really interested in having full coverage for movies and if my initial support for HD DVD means that more studios begin to move neutral then I'm happy about that.
He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
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He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
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post #1958 of 2106
I've decided to let Microsoft and Sony duke it out before I buy into either format, it means only one thing.... Price drops. Either way I'll be happy when I know I've bought into a format that isn't going to be the lame duck. For now I'm really enjoying my Wii!
post #1959 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoopy

Many of us who think that BD will succeed are not early adopters. We wait until the price drops and all the bugs are worked out. Our enthusiasm for a technology does not mean we spend our money recklessly.



I did not buy a Mac in 1984. I waited until 1994.


Obviously, you don't belong in the fanatic group...but the enthusiastic other?

BTW, my first mac was the mac SE/20MB HD with black and white screen still in the 80's, so that would put me in the early adopters group?
always a newbie
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always a newbie
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post #1960 of 2106
ive followed this thread from the start... ive seen some WILD claims from people, some sanity from the same people...

early on i cared...

since about page 20-30 its just been entertainment

-----
addabox

//you've got someone who is on one side with some balance, and someone who is on the other side with complete fanaticism, and it makes it appear as if the first party is more partisan than they actually are, if only because the temptation is strong to poke some holes in a fanatics relentlessness. //

so if the fanatic is RIGHT in the end, does that make them more or less valid than the "non" fanatic from the opposing side?

ive been OH so tempted to get an xbox... but the THOUGHT of giving M$ money makes me ill, if that makes me a fanatic then im fine with that

i guess you shouldnt wish your life away, but next year looks to be VERY interesting, and im gonna be looking forward to a PS3 launch over here, and all the apple goodness

mmm xmas... im overwhelmed... over weight... and overdrawn
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