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Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD (2006) - Page 51

post #2001 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregmightdothat View Post

Where the 360's were sitting on the shelves from day one?

http://www.ps3news.ca/12212006/21/mo..._meets_the_eye
post #2002 of 2106
Okay, so in the world of unsubstantiated rumours, there are PS3's on the shelves.

Meanwhile, back in the real world, Sony is busy shifting shite as quickly as they can make it.

Either way, give it a month or so, this is Christmas and I dont actually believe that there is a solitary PS3 sitting on a shelf for more than a day or so. Yeah the prices on ebay have come down too. Thank God.

I'm in Australia and waiting for the PAL version to come out so this is all pretty academic to me anyway.

Merry Christmas everyone...
post #2003 of 2106
Holy Shit!!! There's a $1000 PS3 bundle on a shelf somewhere!!!

And Jonny is busy harrasing mum, GET IT GET IT

No, not after I forked out $1000 for that 360 bundle that raised the room by 10 degrees every time you switched it on.

Come on.....
post #2004 of 2106


I've set my alarm for this date/time in 2008, or a post count of 8,000 in this thread, whichever comes sooner, or a price point of $50 for a HD-DVD or Blu-Ray burner! This format war prequel is starting to get REALLY BORING!

BTW, Ebert & Roeper have given this thread two thumbs down, and it tops their list as the "Worst Forum Thread of 2006!"

The following MAY help you people out more than you think, use it on thine enemies, you're bound to have more luck with it then all you're insistent bickering;


"You are getting drowsy. Your eyes are getting tired. They are getting heavy. They are closing. You are getting sleepy. You are going to sleep. Going sound to sleep."

"Close your eyes and go sound to sleep."

"Sleep, sleep, sleep, sleepy, sleepy, gone to sleep, to sleep, sound asleep."

"Your eyes are shut so tight you can’t open them. You are going sound asleep. You are at perfect rest. You are perfectly quiet. You are going into a deep sleep, deep sleep, deep sleep, sound asleep. You are now sound asleep, sound asleep."


Zzzzzzz....

Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #2005 of 2106
On a side note, anyone seen the displays at Best Buy that are showcasing Blu-Ray players? I love how they run comparisons of standard DVD to Blu-Ray, and the DVD is all blurry and distorted. Convincing to the idiot, amusing to the rest.
post #2006 of 2106
Thread Starter 
PS3 Looks to have Over 1 Million Consoles Sold

http://www.vgcharts.org/



Well, looks like Sony is well on their way!! :cool: And we still have a whole week in December to go! So much for sitting on the shelves!
post #2007 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by marzetta7 View Post


PS3 Looks to have Over 1 Million Consoles Sold

And this compares to how many Xbox HD-DVD add-ons and other HD-DVD players? Just wondering. Too lazy to do the research this early in the game and I figured you'd know of hand.

post #2008 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoopy View Post

And this compares to how many Xbox HD-DVD add-ons and other HD-DVD players? Just wondering. Too lazy to do the research this early in the game and I figured you'd know of hand.


Problem is you can't do a direct comparisons. Every HD-DVD player and HD-DVD Xbox addon WILL be used for movies. Not every PS3 will be used for movies (no matter how much THEY want to tell you otherwise). So even if 2 million PS3s get sold, doesn't mean there are 2 million people with HDTVs or even 2 million people planning on purchasing Blu-Ray movies. Numbers are great, because you can spin them in any way you want...
post #2009 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by marzetta7 View Post

PS3 Looks to have Over 1 Million Consoles Sold

http://www.vgcharts.org/



Well, looks like Sony is well on their way!! :cool: And we still have a whole week in December to go! So much for sitting on the shelves!

From the site:

Quote:
the data on VG Charts is unofficial and in some cases incomplete

And then further down, it goes on to say how they get there data, but they only talk about the Japanese numbers. There is no mention of how or where they get their US sales figures from. So I take these numbers with a grain of salt. Hell, I could make a website that says there has only been 5 PS3s sold. Doesn't mean it correct. But it would be as accurate as these guys, since they don't post any information about their sources.
post #2010 of 2106
It's actually quite humorous to me that over 50 pages of this thread is built around one single premise: that the PS3 is going to decide the HD DVD format wars.

Which is just laughable in its construct and reasoning.

Listen up folks. The PS3 nor the XBOX are going to decide which format wins the war.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #2011 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

It's actually quite humorous to me that over 50 pages of this thread is built around one single premise: that the PS3 is going to decide the HD DVD format wars.

Which is just laughable in its construct and reasoning.

Listen up folks. The PS3 nor the XBOX are going to decide which format wins the war.

And this is "cause you said so"?
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post #2012 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

It's actually quite humorous to me that over 50 pages of this thread is built around one single premise: that the PS3 is going to decide the HD DVD format wars.

Which is just laughable in its construct and reasoning.

Listen up folks. The PS3 nor the XBOX are going to decide which format wins the war.

This thread has almost been going for a full year (we are so close guys!!!) I love getting the emails everyday saying there have been new responses

It is actually interesting, the PS3 argument didn't come in at page one. But it is rather amusing to go back and see the history.
post #2013 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by kupan787 View Post

This thread has almost been going for a full year (we are so close guys!!!) I love getting the emails everyday saying there have been new responses

It is actually interesting, the PS3 argument didn't come in at page one. But it is rather amusing to go back and see the history.


we keep it real here.
post #2014 of 2106
Blu-Ray and HDDVD are pretty much the same thing. With the correct firmware i'm sure you could use one type of reader/burner as both Blu-Ray and HDDVD as they both use the same wavelength laser diode @ 405nm Near UV. (They are not blue lasers)

DVD burners are high powered 650nm RED diodes. CD Burners are high powered 780nm Near IR.
post #2015 of 2106
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoopy View Post

And this compares to how many Xbox HD-DVD add-ons and other HD-DVD players? Just wondering. Too lazy to do the research this early in the game and I figured you'd know of hand.


NPD stated not to long ago that the add-on sold 42,000 by the end of November. Pretty abysmal.

There are those that want people to think that less than 5% (< 50,000) will use their PS3s for movies. I just find it amusing. I think the percentage will be around 40% using it for both movies and games with the majority 60% using it just for games. So, IMO, you're looking at 400,000 PS3s used for movies compared to approximately < 100,000 add-ons.

Let the significance of the number of PS3s sold downplaying begin...
post #2016 of 2106
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

It's actually quite humorous to me that over 50 pages of this thread is built around one single premise: that the PS3 is going to decide the HD DVD format wars.

Which is just laughable in its construct and reasoning.

Listen up folks. The PS3 nor the XBOX are going to decide which format wins the war.

What's humorous is how you came to the conclusion that this thread is built arond one single premise in the PS3.

We've discussed ad nauseum how Pioneer, Philips, Samsung, LG, Sony, Panasonic, Sony Pictures, Fox, Disney, MGM, Lionsgate, Dell, and others exclusivity toward Blu-ray will help in the course of the format war.

The industry is not on HD DVDs side, this with many other variables will decide the format war in Blu-ray's favor IMO. How you come to the conclusion that this thread is based upon the single premise aforementioned, is beyond me.
post #2017 of 2106
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kupan787 View Post

And then further down, it goes on to say how they get there data, but they only talk about the Japanese numbers. There is no mention of how or where they get their US sales figures from. So I take these numbers with a grain of salt. Hell, I could make a website that says there has only been 5 PS3s sold. Doesn't mean it correct. But it would be as accurate as these guys, since they don't post any information about their sources.

It appears this how they go about getting their US numbers as well as PS3 data flows from Japan seeing how Sony and many other game manufacturers for the PS3 are Japanese companies.

Quote:
VG Charts uses a proprietary system which takes publically available data from the above three trackers along with sales and shipment data released from the game manufacturers in Japan to produce what we feel is the most accurate depiction of the pattern of sales for each title.

At least they explain where their numbers are coming from unlike nexgenwars and other places. Regardless, I posted this information with the statement that it "looks" to have sold over 1 million consoles. I'm not stating it is a definite fact, but indeed as an estimation. We'll know in a couple of weeks for sure...things will get interesting at CES 2007.
post #2018 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by marzetta7 View Post

NPD stated not to long ago that the add-on sold 42,000 by the end of November. Pretty abysmal.

There are those that want people to think that less than 5% (< 50,000) will use their PS3s for movies. I just find it amusing. I think the percentage will be around 40% using it for both movies and games with the majority 60% using it just for games. So, IMO, you're looking at 400,000 PS3s used for movies compared to approximately < 100,000 add-ons.

Let the significance of the number of PS3s sold downplaying begin...

The significance of the PS3 shouldn't be downplayed but neither should a product that sells 42k units in 3 weeks. Remember the Xbox HD DVD player was delivered on November 7. I guess it remains to be seen how many PS3 user decide to utilize the Blu-ray features. I certainly wouldn't call it abysmal.

I think people would respect your posts more if you sounded a little less "flaming fanboy" granted I sound like a fanboy as well but I'm not ever going to call 14k players a week "Abysmal" nor will I vociferously deny that the PS3 will have an impact on Blu-ray movie sales.

This war is going to be won or lost by two major things.

1. Studio content
2. Price

If HD DVD doesn't have #1 the better damn sure make sure they are demonstrably better at #2.
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post #2019 of 2106
Oops.....
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post #2020 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

.......... This war is going to be won or lost by two major things.

1. Studio content
2. Price
..........................

I think there is a lot more to it than just #1, and #2. Those two help along the way, but I think there are many more things involved in this than those two. Because sometime within the next 6 months the both #1, and #2 will be probably be equal and #1, and #2 will be oblivious. THese are probably individual to you.

What is individual to me are things like:
Seeing full seasons of 24 in HD, and other TV shows on a single disk. Starwars 1 - 6 on a single disk. Lord of the rings extended versions 1- 3 on a single disk "with extras", Pirates of the Carabean 1 - 3 with extras on Single disk, and so on.
I think blu ray is the only one with enough capacity to accomplish any of those. Personally that's why I like the BR format.
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post #2021 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker View Post

What is individual to me are things like:
Seeing full seasons of 24 in HD, and other TV shows on a single disk. Starwars 1 - 6 on a single disk. Lord of the rings extended versions 1- 3 on a single disk "with extras", Pirates of the Carabean 1 - 3 with extras on Single disk, and so on.
I think blu ray is the only one with enough capacity to accomplish any of those. Personally that's why I like the BR format.

And who would ever sit and watch 12 hours of movies straight? That seems like the only reason for putting it all on one disk, so you don't have to swap out. So for TV shows, it woudl be nice to get a full season on a disk. But having all the Star Wars on one disk isn't a big deal. Personally, I like having the 6 cases, with the cover art, in my dvd rack. If I had one disk and one case, it just wouldn't look as cool
post #2022 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by kupan787 View Post

And who would ever sit and watch 12 hours of movies straight? That seems like the only reason for putting it all on one disk, so you don't have to swap out. So for TV shows, it woudl be nice to get a full season on a disk. But having all the Star Wars on one disk isn't a big deal. Personally, I like having the 6 cases, with the cover art, in my dvd rack. If I had one disk and one case, it just wouldn't look as cool

The primary reason would be for portability. I have a friend who keeps his DVDs in a sleeve-based carry case, so he's got like 30 DVDs in a tiny space. If he could keep entire TV series in there (as currently, his TV series DVDs average 4 episodes a DVD), it'd be pretty darn close to beating a media HDD in terms of convenience. I mean, in terms of content/sq inch, it might beat my 400GB HDD w/ H.264 encoded shows.
post #2023 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZachPruckowski View Post

The primary reason would be for portability. I have a friend who keeps his DVDs in a sleeve-based carry case, so he's got like 30 DVDs in a tiny space. If he could keep entire TV series in there (as currently, his TV series DVDs average 4 episodes a DVD), it'd be pretty darn close to beating a media HDD in terms of convenience. I mean, in terms of content/sq inch, it might beat my 400GB HDD w/ H.264 encoded shows.

I guess for different people, it might make sense. But at my place, we have a huge dvd stand/rack. And I really like the fact that I can show each LOTR, Matrix, or Star Wars in the rack, with its individual case, and cover art. I prefer having 100 DVDs in my rack, rather than just having like 25 DVDs.

As far as portability, you would need a portable high def player then. The reason people can run around with DVDs in a slim soft case is because EVERYONE has a dvd player, so you can just pop the disks in any place. The likelihood of ending up some where, where your format of choice exists, is slim.
post #2024 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by kupan787 View Post

I guess for different people, it might make sense. But at my place, we have a huge dvd stand/rack. And I really like the fact that I can show each LOTR, Matrix, or Star Wars in the rack, with its individual case, and cover art. I prefer having 100 DVDs in my rack, rather than just having like 25 DVDs.

As far as portability, you would need a portable high def player then. The reason people can run around with DVDs in a slim soft case is because EVERYONE has a dvd player, so you can just pop the disks in any place. The likelihood of ending up some where, where your format of choice exists, is slim.

I have a 300+1 disc DVD carosel, and it's full.

I'd like to add TV seasons in there along with movies that have more than one, but they just dont fit.

Examples. Terminator, Alien, StarWars, LOTR, Matrix, Back to the future. 24 seasons 1 -5 , La femme Nikita entire series. American Chopper seasons 1-3 Plus other OCC bike project DVD's, Biker Build-off. There are so many more that are not coming to mind, and there are also future DVD's that will benefit..
Those cases are a waste of space. All my cases are in a box in the addict. I have no need to display the cases, but if I did it wouldn't matter because my carousel renders an image of all the cases on the on screen DVD menu which IMO is better. (lol cover art.. That "art" is so small that argument is ridiculous!)

Nevertheless I think of the two formats Blu-Ray is the only one capable of handling my needs in the near future.
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post #2025 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by kupan787 View Post

I guess for different people, it might make sense. But at my place, we have a huge dvd stand/rack. And I really like the fact that I can show each LOTR, Matrix, or Star Wars in the rack, with its individual case, and cover art. I prefer having 100 DVDs in my rack, rather than just having like 25 DVDs.

I don't know, that sounds like a silly reason to prefer more disks -- wanting a bigger collection to impress people. Personally, I prefer fewer disks for a practical reason -- convenience. Ideally, I'd never have to swap a disk again in my life, but since that's not possible, the fewer the better, at least. As for the cover art and case, I couldn't care less. I buy movies to watch them, not look at the cover art. If it was really good art, I'd probably want the movie poster instead of a tiny case. I can't remember the last time I read liner notes. And if someone thinks less of me because my DVD rack is emptier, that's their problem.
post #2026 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker View Post

Nevertheless I think of the two formats Blu-Ray is the only one capable of handling my needs in the near future.

From what I've been hearing, the idea of quad-layer HD-DVDs is not out of the question in the near future, and that's 60 GB/side. Apparently HD-DVDs are easier to manufacture than BRDs, since they're a lot more like DVDs, and apparently the transition to dual/triple/quad layer (for the media) is less steep now than it was for DVDs, and I think you can do a lot to make current players compatible with 2-4 layer discs via a firmware update.
post #2027 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZachPruckowski View Post

....... Apparently HD-DVDs are easier to manufacture than BRDs, since they're a lot more like DVDs, and apparently the transition to dual/triple/quad layer (for the media) is less steep now than it was for DVDs, and I think you can do a lot to make current players compatible with 2-4 layer discs via a firmware update.

Not the case. #1 it uses the same machine as a DVD machine which only makes it more convenient for a current manufacturer of DVD's not easier, and there are obviously BD manufacturers already and equipment prices should soon be falling for BR if they have not started already.
And #2 if Quad layer disk was so easy why don't they do it with DVD? I've never heard of one. It sounds more like a propaganda ploy to keep manufacturer dreams alive by the HD-Consortium. Could you imagine the width of a quad layer DVD? I doubt it would fit in existing players, and I would think the same goes for High Def Players.
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post #2028 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZachPruckowski View Post

From what I've been hearing, the idea of quad-layer HD-DVDs is not out of the question in the near future, and that's 60 GB/side. Apparently HD-DVDs are easier to manufacture than BRDs, since they're a lot more like DVDs, and apparently the transition to dual/triple/quad layer (for the media) is less steep now than it was for DVDs, and I think you can do a lot to make current players compatible with 2-4 layer discs via a firmware update.

Why don't we wait and see if the three-layer HD DVD ever sees the light of day before drooling over the four-layer? Frankly, I don't think either will ever appear.
post #2029 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post

Why don't we wait and see if the three-layer HD DVD ever sees the light of day before drooling over the four-layer? Frankly, I don't think either will ever appear.

That wil probably never appear like you said, and TDK has already developed a 200GB Blu-Ray disk. That is 200GB on a single sided disk. Apparently their 100GB single sided disk will work in some current players.

http://news.digitaltrends.com/article11210.html
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post #2030 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker View Post

That wil probably never appear like you said, and TDK has already developed a 200GB Blu-Ray disk. That is 200GB on a single sided disk. Apparently their 100GB single sided disk will work in some current players.

http://news.digitaltrends.com/article11210.html

what does gazillion layers have to do with Hi-Def Movies?... Bigger storage hasn't helped BD so far, so having extra 50GB will make the movies look 2x better?... BD sure does need that if that is the secret sauce, but I'll doubt that even 100GB extra would do anything to help BD movies look any better.
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post #2031 of 2106
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Originally Posted by bitemymac View Post

what does gazillion layers have to do with Hi-Def Movies?... Bigger storage hasn't helped BD so far, so having extra 50GB will make the movies look 2x better?

Nope, doesn't work like that. All codecs have a point of diminishing returns. Meaning you can't just keep uping the bitrate and get better pictures. At a certain point, no matter how much you increase the bitrate, you just get a large file size that looks the same. I don't remember where, but I think I read that for VC1 and AVC that anything above 14Mps yields only bigger files, and no better image quality.

The "advantage" of more space is more movies/tv shows per disk. Some really like this idea, others don't. For TV shows, it makes sense to me, but putting all of the LOTR or Star Wars, or Alien movies onto one disk doesn't really interest me. Plus, that is only useful once they have all been released. So for new movies, you still have to initially release one at a time, and then maybe later do a "one disk" set. But who is going to spend $100 on a "one disk" set, when they already have part one and part two for $25 a piece? I'd just buy part 3 for $25. So in reality, it is only "beneficial" to older movies, not new ones.
post #2032 of 2106
Exactly. The Humphrey Bogart collection, The Chech, and Chong collection, etc. etc. etc...

Notice how I put Bogart and Cheech and Chong in one sentence... Not hard to do. 8)

The space is the key. What about the 95 Oscar collection. Universal Studio's presents Best Movies from 2006. There is a huge a market for collections on disk. Think about Disney by the decade collections. A person could go on for days.
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post #2033 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by kupan787 View Post

The "advantage" of more space is more movies/tv shows per disk. Some really like this idea, others don't. For TV shows, it makes sense to me

TV shows released on DVD is one of the fastest-growing segments of the DVD market, so catering to that is nothing to sneeze at. Entire seasons on fewer discs would also benefit the pressing plants. Multi-disc box sets consume a lot of pressing capacity. If you could knock that down to one or two discs for a season, that would free up 75-90% of any given plant's capacity currently tied up producing box sets.
post #2034 of 2106
I think the "one disc for a bunch of DVDs" doesn't take into account the collector mentality.

I think people like the idea of getting the entirety of MASH, say, in a biggish olive green box that looks like a foot locker. Especially if the thing is going to cost upwards of $150, you want to feel like you're getting a lot for your money, and have a hunk of something you can admire on your shelf.

I actually think a single $150 Blue Ray disc is a tougher sell, for a lot of people.
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post #2035 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

I think the "one disc for a bunch of DVDs" doesn't take into account the collector mentality.

I think people like the idea of getting the entirety of MASH, say, in a biggish olive green box that looks like a foot locker. Especially if the thing is going to cost upwards of $150, you want to feel like you're getting a lot for your money, and have a hunk of something you can admire on your shelf.

I actually think a single $150 Blue Ray disc is a tougher sell, for a lot of people.

To each his own. With the amount of DVD's, and special box sets I have I get 0% usage out of all those boxes I keep in my addict now. AFAIAC they are just a huge amount of clutter, and I hate clutter.

But I'm sure they will continue to make those big ass boxes with a billion DVD's in them for guy's like you for years to come.
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post #2036 of 2106
quick question here: has blu-ray even released a movie over 25gb? i mean are disks out there touting the 50gb storage space promised by the blue-ray camp?
post #2037 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker View Post

I get 0% usage out of all those boxes I keep in my addict now.

i dont know what kind of rehab programs you have in your area
post #2038 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker View Post

To each his own. With the amount of DVD's, and special box sets I have I get 0% usage out of all those boxes I keep in my addict now. AFAIAC they are just a huge amount of clutter, and I hate clutter.

But I'm sure they will continue to make those big ass boxes with a billion DVD's in them for guy's like you for years to come.

I don't buy DVD sets at all, I'm just commenting on what I've observed.
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post #2039 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elixir View Post

quick question here: has blu-ray even released a movie over 25gb? i mean are disks out there touting the 50gb storage space promised by the blue-ray camp?

The 1st 50GB BD title was "Click" which looks as good as the upconverted standard definition verion DVD's. There're only handfull of them on scheduled for 50GB release, but rest is on 25GB single layer disc.
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post #2040 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elixir View Post

quick question here: has blu-ray even released a movie over 25gb? i mean are disks out there touting the 50gb storage space promised by the blue-ray camp?

There are only a few, but 25GB should hold most movies and you probably wont see a huge amount of them from the get go, but when you start getting into extras and things like that space is going be essential. Many regular DVD movies have to use a second disk for extras. MY LOTR Gift BOX collection has 4 DVD's per movie. I'd much rather have all that on one disk.
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