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Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD (2006) - Page 52

post #2041 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elixir View Post

quick question here: has blu-ray even released a movie over 25gb? i mean are disks out there touting the 50gb storage space promised by the blue-ray camp?

Blu-ray, and HD-DVD, exist for a multitude of reasons.

The more data that I can fit on a single disc, the better. Especially when it's as scratch-resistant as Blu-ray is.
post #2042 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregmightdothat View Post

Blu-ray, and HD-DVD, exist for a multitude of reasons.

The more data that I can fit on a single disc, the better. Especially when it's as scratch-resistant as Blu-ray is.

I'm a bit paranoid about having too much data on one disc. I have DVDs that don't play well in my player now. My favorite is the 2-Disc set because it doesn't take any more space than a single in a case and you have one disc for the movie and another for the extras.

When the extras are really good I enjoy them but typically the extras are rather boring and I'd rather not compromise the movie for the extras.
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post #2043 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

I'm a bit paranoid about having too much data on one disc. I have DVDs that don't play well in my player now. My favorite is the 2-Disc set because it doesn't take any more space than a single in a case and you have one disc for the movie and another for the extras.

When the extras are really good I enjoy them but typically the extras are rather boring and I'd rather not compromise the movie for the extras.

That sounds like a player problem. Is that your HD-DVD player?

For me it's all about less disks. I'm very fond of my carousel, and if I could get more data on one disk I could probably fit all my disks in my 300+1 disk carousel. Right now I can't, and getting up to swap out a disk so I can watch the extras is really inconvenient.
It would be even more so with these new formats where you can see the menu on screen and use special features during the movie. I'd hate to see a screen that says something like "press enter to see how this scene was made" and then have it say "Put in disk #2" That would totally suck. Just another reason why I like the Blu format.
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post #2044 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker View Post

That sounds like a player problem. Is that your HD-DVD player?

For me it's all about less disks. I'm very fond of my carousel, and if I could get more data on one disk I could probably fit all my disks in my 300+1 disk carousel. Right now I can't, and getting up to swap out a disk so I can watch the extras is really inconvenient.
It would be even more so with these new formats where you can see the menu on screen and use special features during the movie. I'd hate to see a screen that says something like "press enter to see how this scene was made" and then have it say "Put in disk #2" That would totally suck. Just another reason why I like the Blu format.

You haven't mentioned anything here that is unique to Blu-ray. In fact HD DVD has been delivering dual stream interactive features since Constantine.

My dream player would consist of a 400 disc changer with a TB of hard drive space. I could take the extras and place them on the hard drive and just use the movie disc. I'd be networked via ethernet and I'd have SACD/DVDA support as well.

on another note

http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/

Sales Rank

HD DVD - 494
Blu-ray - 1425

Blu-ray's losing out on the Adult studios as well. Blu-ray fans...pray HD DVD doesn't have any big surprises on January 7th because things are not looking for your format.
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post #2045 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

You haven't mentioned anything here that is unique to Blu-ray. In fact HD DVD has been delivering dual stream interactive features since Constantine.

My dream player would consist of a 400 disc changer with a TB of hard drive space. I could take the extras and place them on the hard drive and just use the movie disc. I'd be networked via ethernet and I'd have SACD/DVDA support as well.

on another note

http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/

Sales Rank

HD DVD - 494
Blu-ray - 1425

Blu-ray's losing out on the Adult studios as well. Blu-ray fans...pray HD DVD doesn't have any big surprises on January 7th because things are not looking for your format.


Wow thanks for that. You can see exactly how much faster Blu Ray has grown in the last 30 days compared to HD-DVD

Sales-rank of top 10 products:

HD = from about 700 to 494. = gained 206 points.

BR = from about 2750 to 1425. gained 1325 points. that is almost 7 x the gain in just the last 30 days.

HD DVD is the current leader in every category other than how many movies are available in which HD-DVD have just been overtaken by Blu-Ray, but with that kind of growth I don't see how anyone can deny that the shift has gone to Blu-Ray.

Thanks for the reassurance.
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post #2046 of 2106
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker View Post

Wow thanks for that. You can see exactly how much faster Blu Ray has grown in the last 30 days compared to HD-DVD

Sales-rank of top 10 products:

HD = from about 700 to 494. = gained 206 points.

BR = from about 2750 to 1425. gained 1325 points. that is almost 7 x the gain in just the last 30 days.

HD DVD is the current leader in every category other than how many movies are available in which HD-DVD have just been overtaken by Blu-Ray, but with that kind of growth I don't see how anyone can deny that the shift has gone to Blu-Ray.

Thanks for the reassurance.

Precisely.
post #2047 of 2106
I'd be remiss if I stated that the PS3 has had no effect. It certainly has as there was pent up demand for a low cost Blu-ray player for some and Sony based nextgen game console for others.

I think it's quite easy to deny that a shif has gone to Blu-ray. Prior to the PS3 launch there was such a scarcity of Blu-ray players Blu-ray, quite naturally, fell behind. Thus, what we are seeing now is not a wholesale transition to Blu-ray but rather the market correcting itself.

It's also quite interesting that the new Toshiba A2 has been shipping for barely over a couple of weeks as well and from what I read it's a hot seller.

Right now it's a tough one to call. If the PS3 owners catch a bug and decide to start buying movies then things could reverse very quickly. If Disney delivers Cars and the PotC series on Blu-ray then we'll see the gap close mighty quick.
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post #2048 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

I'd be remiss if I stated that the PS3 has had no effect. It certainly has as there was pent up demand for a low cost Blu-ray player for some and Sony based nextgen game console for others.

I think it's quite easy to deny that a shif has gone to Blu-ray. Prior to the PS3 launch there was such a scarcity of Blu-ray players Blu-ray, quite naturally, fell behind. Thus, what we are seeing now is not a wholesale transition to Blu-ray but rather the market correcting itself.

It's also quite interesting that the new Toshiba A2 has been shipping for barely over a couple of weeks as well and from what I read it's a hot seller.

Right now it's a tough one to call. If the PS3 owners catch a bug and decide to start buying movies then things could reverse very quickly. If Disney delivers Cars and the PotC series on Blu-ray then we'll see the gap close mighty quick.

This is all speculation on your part. The figures you showd us were absolute fact.


Here is a little more speculation. I'd have to speculate that over 70% of the PS3's were opened 3 days ago, and not 30 days ago.
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post #2049 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker View Post

This is all speculation on your part. The figures you showd us were absolute fact.


Here is a little more speculation. I'd have to speculate that over 70% of the PS3's were opened 3 days ago, and not 30 days ago.


Another speculation is that many of the HD-DVD players & xbox 360 HD-DVD add ons were also opened 3 days ago.... Same field and same game, but HD-DVD seems to be still on top.
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post #2050 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker View Post

Wow thanks for that. You can see exactly how much faster Blu Ray has grown in the last 30 days compared to HD-DVD

Sales-rank of top 10 products:

HD = from about 700 to 494. = gained 206 points.

BR = from about 2750 to 1425. gained 1325 points. that is almost 7 x the gain in just the last 30 days.

HD DVD is the current leader in every category other than how many movies are available in which HD-DVD have just been overtaken by Blu-Ray, but with that kind of growth I don't see how anyone can deny that the shift has gone to Blu-Ray.

Thanks for the reassurance.

Oh for God's sake. I don't have a dog in this hunt, but this kind of gibberish doesn't do Blue-Ray fans any favors.

By this logic Apple is clearly poised to overtake MS because they have had some large percentage of growth in their market share while MS has stayed "stuck" at 95%.

Really, argue the merits and trumpet your preferred format's wins, by all means, but no need to wander into the weeds.
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post #2051 of 2106
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Oh for God's sake. I don't have a dog in this hunt, but this kind of gibberish doesn't do Blue-Ray fans any favors.

By this logic Apple is clearly poised to overtake MS because they have had some large percentage of growth in their market share while MS has stayed "stuck" at 95%.

Really, argue the merits and trumpet your preferred format's wins, by all means, but no need to wander into the weeds.

Nor does the aforementioned gibberish do any HD DVD fans any favors, as Amazon sales rank numbers are 1) not a true indicator of the market as most consumers don't buy everything online, and 2) are suspect to begin with in that a full Blu-ray representation is not present.

I don't know how many times I have to repeat this, but taking Amazon's number and claiming "market share" percentages is simply lame, illogical, and HD DVD FUD banter (same goes for claims that Blu-ray is losing Adult studios).
post #2052 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by marzetta7 View Post

Nor does the aforementioned gibberish do any HD DVD fans any favors, as Amazon sales rank numbers are 1) not a true indicator of the market as most consumers don't buy everything online, and 2) are suspect to begin with in that a full Blu-ray representation is not present.

I don't know how many times I have to repeat this, but taking Amazon's number and claiming "market share" percentages is simply lame, illogical, and HD DVD FUD banter (same goes for claims that Blu-ray is losing Adult studios).

I don't think anyone is claiming the Amazon numbers represent some kind of absolute "market share". They are just an indicator, albeit a readily available and up-to-date one, and one that surely has some kind of bearing on the larger market.

I would say, however, that simple numerical Amazon rankings make far more sense as an indicator than some convoluted argument about percentage increase within a non-standardized segment of those rankings.

There's evidence to buttress one's case, and there's really reaching.
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post #2053 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Oh for God's sake. I don't have a dog in this hunt, but this kind of gibberish doesn't do Blue-Ray fans any favors.

By this logic Apple is clearly poised to overtake MS because they have had some large percentage of growth in their market share while MS has stayed "stuck" at 95%.

Really, argue the merits and trumpet your preferred format's wins, by all means, but no need to wander into the weeds.

LOL, your just trying to deflect the facts with your erroneous blathering. Those #'s are showing the obvious, which is that in sales Blu-Ray just made a huge leap in closing the gap on HD-DVD. In merely 30 days Blu-Ray gained almost 7x the amount of buyers, or purchases than that of HD-DVD. If they do it again over the next 30 they will overtake HD-DVD in Amazon sales.
That Microsoft comparison is pathetic attempt to alter the reality of the situation, and the format. The analogy makes it sound like something it's not.
Using MS, in conjunction with HD-DVD was a nice attempt at Bullshit, but bullshit is all it really is. Microsoft will always be the biggest. You can not guarantee that about HD-DVD.
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post #2054 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker View Post

LOL, your just trying to deflect the facts with your erroneous blathering. Those #'s are showing the obvious, which is that in sales Blu-Ray just made a huge leap in closing the gap on HD-DVD. In merely 30 days Blu-Ray gained almost 7x the amount of buyers, or purchases than that of HD-DVD. If they do it again over the next 30 they will overtake HD-DVD in Amazon sales.
That Microsoft comparison is pathetic attempt to alter the reality of the situation, and the format. The analogy makes it sound like something it's not.
Using MS, in conjunction with HD-DVD was a nice attempt at Bullshit, but bullshit is all it really is. Microsoft will always be the biggest. You can not guarantee that about HD-DVD.

Whatever. Like I say, I don't have a dog in this hunt and I have no interest in "deflecting facts", particularly with rabid fan boys.

But your analysis of what moving up in sales rankings at Amazon portends is just wrong.

We have no way of knowing what sales ranking at Amazon mean in actual numbers. We don't know if moving from, say, 1000th to 750th means a doubling of sales, or a 15% increase, or anything. We don't know if we're starting with 500 units moved and expanding to 600 units moved. We don't know if moving from 750th to 500th is a steeper, shallow or comparable delta in terms of unit sales. For all we know the top 25 sellers on Amazon represent an aggregate 40 million units, the next 50 an aggregate 10 million and the next 1000 an aggregate 100.

The figures you cite could represent a substantial increase in Blu-Ray market penetration, or it could just as easily represent low hanging fruit in the lower reaches of Amazon rankings, where modest sales increases mean rapid ranking increases.

At the same time, HD-DVD rankings changes could also represent modest market changes (although we do know for sure that increased ranking closer to the top for any given product must represent larger absolute increases than those below), or it could be that every ranking point at the HD-DVD level equals the entire Amazon sales of Blu-Ray stuff.

Don't have enough information. Can't say.
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post #2055 of 2106
It's pretty clear that the pent up demand for Blu-ray brought the numbers closer to where they should have been. I expect to see the things plateau now that PS3 are fairly easy to get if you just look around.

Both formats are doing well in their first year. CES 2007 will kick off another year of strategic plans and partnerships. I'm not willing to discount the success of either format in fact I think for the most part they will continue to thrive as pricing goes down.

What this battle has show is that technical specs mean very little to people when they are satisfied with the quality. Blu-ray didn't start making some headway until the Samsung player was discounted and the PS3 shipped. HD DVD has made excellent headway with the HD DVD add on for the 360.
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post #2056 of 2106
well... it's still unsure about the BD sales figures/rankings from Amazon. We've seen it spike like such when Sammy BD player came out sometime in August/September 2006, then it died down after about a month later. However, we've seen HD-DVD figures sustaining for some time now.

Eitherway, if the BD sales numbers sustain even after January of 2007, then that would be more meaningful number to project the rest of the year to come for BD.

My projection is that Xbox add on figures would come very close to PS3 used as BD players, but the standalone Hi-Def format player for BD would be lagging by a lot and that would help to lead HD-DVD sales through out 2007.

Anyway, even with increased sales activity on both BD and HD-DVD sides for the holidays, HD-DVD still out paces BD movie sales by huge margin and does conclude that Hi-Def format war is clearly won by HD-DVD for 2006 in hardware and software.

I will be looking forward to 2007. Let the future unfold......
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post #2057 of 2106
Hey, why doesn't someone lock this hideously long thread and help encourage a move to the new 2007 thread?
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post #2058 of 2106
There's nothing wrong with long threads.
post #2059 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by shetline View Post

Hey, why doesn't someone lock this hideously long thread and help encourage a move to the new 2007 thread?

It's still 2006.

post #2060 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by shetline View Post

Hey, why doesn't someone lock this hideously long thread and help encourage a move to the new 2007 thread?

Because some of can't stand multiple threads on the same subject matter and believe that muck you starter should have never happened.

This thread is fine.
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post #2061 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Whatever. Like I say, I don't have a dog in this hunt and I have no interest in "deflecting facts", particularly with rabid fan boys.

But your analysis of what moving up in sales rankings at Amazon portends is just wrong.

We have no way of knowing what sales ranking at Amazon mean in actual numbers. We don't know if moving from, say, 1000th to 750th means a doubling of sales, or a 15% increase, or anything. We don't know if we're starting with 500 units moved and expanding to 600 units moved. We don't know if moving from 750th to 500th is a steeper, shallow or comparable delta in terms of unit sales. For all we know the top 25 sellers on Amazon represent an aggregate 40 million units, the next 50 an aggregate 10 million and the next 1000 an aggregate 100.

The figures you cite could represent a substantial increase in Blu-Ray market penetration, or it could just as easily represent low hanging fruit in the lower reaches of Amazon rankings, where modest sales increases mean rapid ranking increases.

At the same time, HD-DVD rankings changes could also represent modest market changes (although we do know for sure that increased ranking closer to the top for any given product must represent larger absolute increases than those below), or it could be that every ranking point at the HD-DVD level equals the entire Amazon sales of Blu-Ray stuff.

Don't have enough information. Can't say.


I don't care if you keep a dog in your butt, your still diflecting what is being said. No one is saying that the amazon indicator has anything to do with real world numbers but you.
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post #2062 of 2106
I think Addabox is right on.

The battle is going to come down to a dead heat. The only way Blu-ray can hope to win is if Disney, Fox and Lionsgate stick it out but I don't think they will. Eventually we're going to have millions of users worldwide for both formats and that's too much money to pass up.

Universal players will come and at first be expensive but then they'll quickly drop in price so that by the end of 2008 many of us will simply upgrade to a U player and move the Xbox and PS3 to another room.
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post #2063 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker View Post

Because some of can't stand multiple threads on the same subject matter and believe that muck you starter should have never happened.

By that logic, this thread shouldn't exist. Marzetta7 created this thread at the beginning of 2006 to replace an an undated thread from 2005 (which he also started). Besides, do you expect new users in 2007 to start checking a thread titled 2006? (And no, Marzetta7 can't edit the topic title. You can edit message posts, but not titles.)
post #2064 of 2106
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Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post

By that logic, this thread shouldn't exist. Marzetta7 created this thread at the beginning of 2006 to replace an an undated thread from 2005 (which he also started). Besides, do you expect new users in 2007 to start checking a thread titled 2006? (And no, Marzetta7 can't edit the topic title. You can edit message posts, but not titles.)

That was before I was in the discussion, but I still hate multiple threads on the same subject.. It just clutters up the boards.
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post #2065 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker View Post

That was before I was in the discussion, but I still hate multiple threads on the same subject.. It just clutters up the boards.

So it's all about you, isn't it? Boo hoo. "Some of us" don't like to check multiple topics. So what? Some of us don't like 52-page-long, year-old topics with outdated information. Don't want to check another topic? Fine. Nobody's got a gun to your head. But don't say you want it killed. If nobody wants it, it'll fade and be pruned. If other people do want to use it, you have no right to demand that they only post here for your personal convenience. I wasn't aware any of us had the power to tell anyone where they could or could not post. Who died and made you dictator?
post #2066 of 2106
the 2006 thread either needs to be closed, or this one completely deleted.


its getting obnoxious.
post #2067 of 2106
to be honest i want this thread KEPT open for at least another 6 months so we can all get the chance to go back and point out who said the most STUPID thing on it.

and you can work out what format fan that is for your selves.

as long as the thread doesnt break the rules then theres no need to deleate it is there?

unless you want to get your panties in a bunch cos the forum rules dont suit you?
post #2068 of 2106
No need to delete, just lock it on December 31st. It'll still be available in the archives for people that want to reference it. Just look to the confederate flag thread for how easy it is to find old threads. When this title came up with 2006 on the end I just assumed that was the plan all along.
post #2069 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trendannoyer View Post

to be honest i want this thread KEPT open for at least another 6 months so we can all get the chance to go back and point out who said the most STUPID thing on it.


So true.

I sporadically visit this thread mostly to chuckle at the fanboyism. You know, the type of behavior that results when people can't distinguish between their own preference and forecast.

Personally, I hope that neither format wins because I think consumers would be better served by formats with fewer digital restrictions. But if one format has to win, I prefer HD-DVD simply because of cost. In the long run, I believe it would be cheaper for consumers. But as for which format will win? Anyone claiming certainty at this point is clearly naive. The race could easily go either way.
post #2070 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler View Post

Personally, I hope that neither format wins because I think consumers would be better served by formats with fewer digital restrictions.

Unfortunately there's no way the studios will get behind any new format without there at least being a pretense of better copy prevention (and other restrictions like region coding). If both formats were to fail, it's not like a DRM-free format would rise from the ashes to save the day -- we'd either get another attempt with worse DRM, or nothing at all.

The best scenario in my book is for one of these HD formats to succeed, be cracked like DVD is now, and yet be too successful for studios to drop.
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post #2071 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Universal players will come and at first be expensive but then they'll quickly drop in price so that by the end of 2008 many of us will simply upgrade to a U player and move the Xbox and PS3 to another room.

I think this is the most likely scenario. It will be a draw with neither format winning outright. Universal players will 'save the day' allowing the average Joe to go out and buy one and not worry that he picked the wrong format. I think eventually both formats will be happy this occurs as most consummers are unsure what to do and are not buying into either format. I know I'm not.
post #2072 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

I think this is the most likely scenario. It will be a draw with neither format winning outright. Universal players will 'save the day' allowing the average Joe to go out and buy one and not worry that he picked the wrong format. I think eventually both formats will be happy this occurs as most consummers are unsure what to do and are not buying into either format. I know I'm not.

If this is going to be the case, why didn't it go that way in the SACD/DVD-A battle?
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post #2073 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Whatever. Like I say, I don't have a dog in this hunt and I have no interest in "deflecting facts", particularly with rabid fan boys.

But your analysis of what moving up in sales rankings at Amazon portends is just wrong.

...

Don't have enough information. Can't say.

You've got it about right.
post #2074 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

If this is going to be the case, why didn't it go that way in the SACD/DVD-A battle?

Didn't it though? Don't most players you buy today play both? Players that can play many formats (including DVD-Audio and SACD) are available for under $100, so both formats are likely to co-exist. Also, look at DVD-R and DVD+R. Universal players during a "format war". Its pretty much how things are going when the two technologies are very similar. I don't expect this to be any different.
post #2075 of 2106
I think the point was that universal players didn't save SACD/DVD-A.
(not that such players don't exist)
post #2076 of 2106
http://www.amazon.com/Sony-Computer-...0d3a74224705dc

in case anyone is looking Amazon are selling PS3s today

make of it what you will
post #2077 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler View Post

I think the point was that universal players didn't save SACD/DVD-A.
(not that such players don't exist)

There is a difference.

Clean audio is harder to see benefits from than clean video (plus, who is really clamoring for 5.1 channel CDs). I have had people listen to a CD and a SACD, and they say "Ya, it sounds better, but not remarkably". Then I show them broadcast TV, and HDTV and they fall out of their seats. The difference in video quality is VERY easy to pick out. Even comparing DVD to HDTV you can clearly see a difference. That is the difference between the two format wars. One was a small step forward, while the other is a huge leap.
post #2078 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

If this is going to be the case, why didn't it go that way in the SACD/DVD-A battle?

My impression was that SACD/DVD-A was more of an engineer's thing than a marketing thing.

As in, "we got all this room, we should be able to do something great with audio, no?" deal, rather than the industry stroking its chin and deciding that it was time to migrate everybody from CD to the new hotness.

I doubt that 1 in 1000 consumers could tell you what SACD/DVD-A even is, let alone express a preference, so if universal players didn't "save" the format I would say it was a matter of lackluster implementation coupled with nonexistent marketing and spotty to nonexistent label support.

Blu-Ray/HD-DVD is a whole 'nuther kettle of fish. Way too much money involved to allow things to languish from obscurity, so universal players will go a long way towards moving consumers along in the direction that the industry has already decided they definitely are going to go.
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post #2079 of 2106
I agree with Addabox. In school I spent a lot of time talking with the engineers about the latest & greatest in video and audio and this is the first I've heard of SACD/DVD-A. I don't think it's a comparable situation to BluRay/HDVD.
post #2080 of 2106
I'm really nonplussed that people cannot see the differences between DVDA/SACD and HD DVD vs Blu-ray.

Consumers were happy with CD and many didn't want to worry about adding 6 speakers in their home to take advantage of multichannel audios. The industry got greedy and tried to push out a format that no one wanted.

Consumers are happy with DVD but there's more a chance for HD to win because:

1. Consumers watch far more TV than they listen to audio
2. The difference is easier to see. Broadcast TV to HD generates a WOW.
3. HDTV were huge sellers this Christmas. I suppose they'll be huge next Christmas as well.

Universal players are inevitable. NEC, Broadcom, Ricoh, Atmel and others are feverishly working on LSI and optical technologies that will allow them to support both. Digital technologies will always skew towards Universal players because frankly they all have 0101110110011110 as their common denominator. Thus, Sony and Toshiba are merely trying to sell us on their carrier and platform specification. The content is the same.
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