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Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD (2006) - Page 3

post #81 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
It helps. Don't forget right now HD DVD is half the cost of today's announced Blu Ray.

1080p/60 is useless. No movies will be delivered in that format for a LONG time. Sony was surprisingly quiet about the PS3. I'm not so sure they are sure what they can price it at. $500 is a guestimate versus multiple HD DVD players being $500. I have a bird in my hand..you have none.

Right now HD DVD isn't half the cost of anything because there are no products. Similarly there are no Blu-Ray products for sale. Pre-orders can easily be cancelled or have shipping dates moved. It'll be the end of the year before there is any sign of how the market will play out and there is no evidence yet that a HD DVD player is inherently cheaper. 2 companies announced Blu-Ray player prices so far and both aimed them high in the market. 1 company announced HD DVD prices and unsurprisingly they aimed cheap, because that's about the only hope they have. The PS3 price of under $500 was as much a promise of price as that from Toshiba.

Both sides have delayed their products, although Blu-Ray certainly less than HD-DVD. Hardly a victory for anybody so far and those people claiming otherwise look obsessive.
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post #82 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
You guys have an interesting flavor of RDF. Steve Jobs doesn't have a thing on you.

Good God. You don't even hear yourself, do you?
HD-DVD should hire you to be their poster boy.

And pre-orders mean absolutely nothing.
Think about the people who pre-ordered a Griffin FireWave when it was announced January 12, 2005 ("...for shipment beginning in the second quarter of 2005.")
Still hasn't shipped.

And did you happen to see the story on /. about the failed HD-DVD product demo at CES?
post #83 of 2106
oh for the love of shit


a failed product demo?

like this hasn't happened to everyone.
post #84 of 2106
Quote:
Right now HD DVD isn't half the cost of anything because there are no products. Similarly there are no Blu-Ray products for sale.

Isn't it true that Press Release from both platforms have been issued with the cheapest Blu Ray device at $995 and the cheapest HD DVD device at $499?

Quote:
and there is no evidence yet that a HD DVD player is inherently cheaper.

Of course there's evidence that HD DVD is cheaper. Perhaps not "inherently" as that cannot be proven without being an insider. But pre-order are being taken for players at $499 and Blu Ray has nothing to offer. Sony, Panasonic, Mitsubishi and others weren't even prepared to offer pricing. As a consumer that would really worry me for a format that "was" supposed to kill HD DVD on arrival.

Quote:
The PS3 price of under $500 was as much a promise of price as that from Toshiba.

Sony could be waiting to announce PS3 pricing but the best they can hope for is parity with Blu Ray. Remember that before CES 2006 everyone thought HD DVD would also be a $1000. Now even if the PS3 hits at $499 it's still only equal to that of HD DVD. A whole new ballgame folks.


Quote:
Both sides have delayed their products, although Blu-Ray certainly less than HD-DVD. Hardly a victory for anybody so far and those people claiming otherwise look obsessive.

Not really obsessive. I debate to win. I've done more research on the two formats and listened to the right people and thus events that have transpired at CES 2006 have done more to strengthen my claims than weaken them.

If HD DVD dies in the long run I'll have no problem with it because the best format will be chosen by the people and not some oligarchy of companies.
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post #85 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by Cake
Good God. You don't even hear yourself, do you?
HD-DVD should hire you to be their poster boy.

And pre-orders mean absolutely nothing.
Think about the people who pre-ordered a Griffin FireWave when it was announced January 12, 2005 ("...for shipment beginning in the second quarter of 2005.")
Still hasn't shipped.

And did you happen to see the story on /. about the failed HD-DVD product demo at CES?

A pre-order is more than you have with Blu Ray. Also keep in mind that Toshiba is a wee bit bigger than Griffin Technology.

Nice link...try this one on for size

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post6876661

Quote:
1. Lots of fake demos. In the BD area, there was a PC with clear case so that one could see the BD drive in there from a major BD company. It was playing BD content supposed to the LCD next to it. Touched the front drive, it didnt feel like it was doing anything. Pushed the eject button, the drawer opens, no BD disc in there but the movie still plays!

2. Lots of fake demos take 2. Half the so called CE players had the same logo BD PLAYER in the LCD. In some cases the counter was stopped. In others, it appears to be counting up. When folks werent looking, I hit pause and the movie would keep playing! I did this on more than 3 separate BD players and all did the same!

3. Lots of fake demos take 3. Two major vendors had huge side-by-side shows with large screen LCDs/Plasma showing the difference between BD and standard DVD. I hit pause and in both cases, the BD side kept playing. Did the same on DVD side and the movie stopped!

whole lot of subterfuge going on.
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post #86 of 2106
Yeah, and a lot desperation being posted here by you.

So, we're supposed to believe a guy on the AVS Forums who is "squarely in HD DVD camp, looking for where BD went wrong".
You mean he actually touched the front of the drive and couldn't detect that anything was spinning in there! Oh my!

And a pre-order is not more than we have with Blu-ray because like Telomar already stated there are no products available yet.
Nothing of nothing really equals nothing.
post #87 of 2106
Hey all,

The Digital Bits is going to have a full HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray report up soon but from the sound of things Blu-Ray dominated to show. Not surprising considering the studio and manufacturer support behind it. They have been platform agnostic in the past and have been in favor of a unified format so it should be interesting to hear what they have to say. The report is supposed to be up later on today.


I'll have lots more to say later this evening and tomorrow, but let me just tell you this much now: the buzz at CES 2006 was all about Blu-ray Disc. For virtually everyone I spoke with, from hardware reps to studio execs to random, run-of-the-mill attendees on the convention floor, Blu-ray had people talking. I have to tell you this as well: Having seen all the displays, talked the tech and kicked the tires a little bit, Blu-ray Disc has me genuinely excited again - more than I've been in a long while, since back in the early days of DVD, when Divx finally threw in the towel and our current favorite home video format really took off.


In the meantime take a look at their pictures from the show floor. Six pages in all. They weren't kidding. Blu-Ray really did seem to dominate the show.

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post #88 of 2106
Speaking of subterfuge, notice any similarities between the budget HD-DVD player from Toshiba and the one from RCA? Take a look at the drawer and button placement.





Looks like Toshiba is manufacturing the RCA player for them or maybe RCA is manufacturing it for Toshiba. Hell, maybe some third party manufacturer in China is making them for both companies. That could explain how Toshiba went from $1200 just a few months ago down to $500 this week. Interesting. Very interesting.

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post #89 of 2106
Quote:

#818 in electronics sales rank yesterday,
dropped to #1114 today.

I don't think that too many people are pre-ordering the unit.
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post #90 of 2106
Quote:
Yeah, and a lot desperation being posted here by you

LOL. Please....I've been the only one sticking to my guns about HD DVD against a bunch of Blu Ray drones. Now the pendulum swings a bit in my direction leading credence to my prior statements and "I'm" desperate?

Blu Ray was supposed to kill off HD DVD and more than half the players are still listed as prototypes with no pricing. The BD recordable discs cost .80 per gigabyte

Quote:
And a pre-order is not more than we have with Blu-ray because like Telomar already stated there are no products available yet.

So If you pre-order a new Macintosh tomorrow at the Apple store that means nothing?

You guys just cannot admit that the hyperbolic statements made by so many were wrong. I'm not saying I'm right because things can and will change but you guys haven't proven that I'm wrong either and the "momentum" is on my side. I'm one of the lone voices supporting HD DVD not because everyone else is supporting Blu Ray but because I looked at the formats from an impartial standpoint and thought HD DVD to me the most sane choice for movie delivery based on cost vs features.

Sure I've sounded a little arrogant but that's just me ribbing some of the BR fans. However the rebuttals I'm getting are pretty weak.

"a preorder means nothing"

LOL...it's more than the blu ray fan has at this point.
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post #91 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by e1618978
#818 in electronics sales rank yesterday,
dropped to #1114 today.

I don't think that too many people are pre-ordering the unit.

Where's Blu Ray at on that list?
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post #92 of 2106
Quote:
Speaking of subterfuge, notice any similarities between the budget HD-DVD player from Toshiba and the one from RCA? Take a look at the drawer and button placement.

Reference design. Thomson's HD DVD looks the same as well. I think the only unique HD DVD that I've seen are

Sanyo's model and LG's model. Looking forward to getting pricing on these models.
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post #93 of 2106
hmurchison i'm with you on this


i dont see the justification on going blu-ray at this point.
post #94 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
You guys just cannot admit that the hyperbolic statements made by so many were wrong. I'm not saying I'm right because things can and will change but you guys haven't proven that I'm wrong either and the "momentum" is on my side.

Lets see if I can get your argument. Everybody else's hyperbole is wrong but yours isn't wrong? Hmm... That's a sane argument. They call that personality disorder narcissism

At the end of the day your argument is over two unreleased products. Companies on both sides still have plenty of time to change prices as neither has shipped an actual product and neither has fully working production units. A $500 PS3 is still going to be a massive boon for Blu-ray and unlikely the cheapest player. Who will will is for the ages to decide but it won't be consumers.
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post #95 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
Where's Blu Ray at on that list?

Put a pre-order page in for the PS3, and I bet it would rocket to #1.
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post #96 of 2106
Thread Starter 
Quote:
1984- you make too many bold statements.
you dont know shit about the ps3 yet.
if someone puts out a blu-ray player at around 500-700 dollars dont you think the hd-dvd manufacturers could release for less? hell the player could drop to 200-300 dollars by this summer.

Nope, sure don't. Why?, economies of scale. Face it, this is the proverbial stake which will be thrust through the heart of HD-DVD. HD-DVD simply and truthfully does NOT have the amount of consumer electronics backing that Blu-Ray does, nor studio support. PS3 is expected to be $399 or $499, output 1080P, and feature the Cell processor with a kick-ass RSX graphics engine from NVIDIA;enough said, HD-DVD is done. A couple more months, and you will know this as a reality. You act as if the PS3 will never see the light of day--a very weak assumption. What more do you need to know about the PS3? Do you need closure on the price alone? Patience, you'll get it--the price--soon enough and there are strategies involved as you must be aware. Just because Sony hasn't disclosed the price doesn't equate to "you don't know shit about the PS3 yet." Moreover, I wouldn't be suprised if Toshiba was already selling their HD-DVD player at $500 at a loss in their act of desperation. At least with the PS3, this type of act--selling at a loss--is expected and is the norm as Sony will recoup costs through purchases of games and add-ons just as Microsoft does with their XBox.

Quote:
Price trumps all people. The best you can do right now is merely match HD DVD pricing. I've told you all along Blu Ray was going to be expensive and you rebuffed me with economies of scale arguements and other blather. After CES I've even more inclined to go with my intuition over your statements. Haven't led me wrong yet.

Wrong, and there are many examples where this logic is dead wrong. You don't have to go any farther than look at the example of Apple's iPod. Apple wasn't selling iPods like their cheap mp3 counterparts from the likes of Rio, Creative, and Dell, were they? All of the companies had and have cheaper music players available than the iPod, but nonetheless, Apple is still dominant. How is that so, if "price trumps all?" Your argument is a result of blind partiality. Speaking of partiality...

Quote:
I'm one of the lone voices supporting HD DVD not because everyone else is supporting Blu Ray but because I looked at the formats from an impartial standpoint and thought HD DVD to me the most sane choice for movie delivery based on cost vs features.

Pffffffft! Please! Seriously, I almost dropped a deuce right here in my chair because I was laughing so hard when I read this. The only reason you are "one of the lone voices supporting HD-DVD" is because of your gross partiality for HD-DVD and your inherent knack of dismissing facts. I'm not sure if it stems from your distaste of Sony whom we've already established as a company that you just don't like, or if it is something else. Maybe because you get your information from a Microsoft employee over at AVS is why you are so impartial (Sacrcasm inserted here)...? In any case, impartial would definitely not be the word I would describe your "sole" argument to be which is price. And, as I've already stated, price does NOT trump all and if you are indeed impartial as you claim to be you would realize that the facts--more consumer electronics backing, more studio support and movies, better quality (1080P vs 1080i), more storage space, and more durability--are all going for Blu-Ray which gives it its "momentum." If you expect us to believe that by HD-DVD announcing a low price point in what is a first adopter/cream-of-the-crop market (see Telomar's argument as $500 for just a player alone is still too high for mass adoption) will give HD-DVD momentum, you are just fooling yourself.

Quote:
Sony could be waiting to announce PS3 pricing but the best they can hope for is parity with Blu Ray. Remember that before CES 2006 everyone thought HD DVD would also be a $1000. Now even if the PS3 hits at $499 it's still only equal to that of HD DVD. A whole new ballgame folks.

Nonsense. There is no equality. How is a standalone HD-DVD player equal to a PS3 which is a Blu-Ray player and a gaming console, and one that will have internet gaming capabilities (and that may be even selling at $399)? Answer, they're not, nice try. Again, take your average consumer when they walk into your local Best Buy, they see the Toshiba--how can you miss it, it's big--HD-DVD player, and a bit down the way, they see a sleeker, smaller, PS3. Which one are they going to choose? The clunky player that can only play movies (at only 1080i mind you) or the sleeker, smaller PS3 that will play Blu-Ray movies at 1080P? Huuuugh? What's this? The walls are covered with Blu-Ray movies too! (Since they have more studio backing.) You do the math, the consumer will more than likely choose the PS3. Moreover, there will be cheaper Blu-Ray players and many more varieties and quantities than HD-DVD players soon enough, so don't go thinking Toshiba and company have the format war all locked up based on an initial price point. Or actually, you go ahead and do that, buy your Toshiba player, and tell me if you feel good about your purchase two years from now, since you are feeling so confident.

Quote:
If HD DVD dies in the long run I'll have no problem with it because the best format will be chosen by the people and not some oligarchy of companies.

Sounds to me someone is trying to have it both ways or simply sounding like someone who isn't as confident has he states, so when his beloved format does fail, he can always say, "Well, I have no problem with it because...blah, blah, blah." By the way, the oligarchy with a touch of monarchy (Microsoft)here would be Toshiba and Microsoft as it--an oligarchy--is rule or government by a faction or a few. The oligarchy of computer companies that you allude to being Blu-Ray companies are, in comparitive terms, many. The oligarchy label, therefore doesn't really apply for Blu-Ray.
post #97 of 2106
Comparing Pioneer Elite prices with low end Toshiba is a bit odd. The DVL-90 Elite LD Player MSRP was $1,750...about double that of my 704 if memory serves me correctly.

Likewise the first Sony DVD player, the DVP-S7000, was arguably the best of the 1st gen DVD players and priced accordingly at $1000 MSRP. The least expensive DVD players were at the $500 price point.

The correct comparison between the Elite and Sony isn't with the HD-A1 at $499 but the HD-XA1 at $799. Sony and Pioneer Elite have better name recognition and better percieved build quality IMHO than Toshiba based on the "best-in-class" reputation of Elite LD line and the DVP-S7000. A $200 premium isn't overly surprising in that context.

Personally, unless Sony really screws up the PS3 launch its no contest. I want a PS3 for gaming. I don't care as much about either HD-DVD or BR given none of my display devices support HDCP (including my front projector, LCD TV, etc).

Penalties of being an early adopter.

Eventually I'll replace one or anther display device. Then my BR player is $0 cost. Until then I'll live with upconverted DVD, HD-DVR and games.

Vinea
post #98 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by 1984
You're not a machine. Are you?

As far as converting soundwaves into data, yes, the ear is nothing mroe than a biological machine. The mechanics of the ear are also quite analogous to the workings of a spectrum analyzer (or oscilloscope). Whether or not something "sounds better" is purely subjective. This I do not argue. However, whether or not something "sounds truer" is the case at hand, and it is a case of objective measure.
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post #99 of 2106
Relax, guys. If hmurchison wants to dig his hole deeper, that's his perogative. I mean, why would it matter if he pushes a less popular format. It's not like popularity has anything to do with market success, right?

Just sit back and when the dust has finally settled, we can all have a nice time thrashing Mr. "I'm never wrong" hmurchison, despite all his claims of "I don't really care who wins." BTW, has anyone noticed that he keeps calling it "Blu Ray"? Interesting, considering the trademark is Blu-ray. I thought he knew everything?

Personally, I'm waiting for word of Toshiba's next delay, namely the ship date of that first player. Or better yet, I think they'll pull a Microsoft. They'll push so hard to get those players out the door on time to beat Blu-ray to market that there'll be problems with them.
post #100 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
So If you pre-order a new Macintosh tomorrow at the Apple store that means nothing?

It does if it's threee months in advance. A lot can go wrong during that time.

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     197619842013  

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post #101 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
Reference design. Thomson's HD DVD looks the same as well. I think the only unique HD DVD that I've seen are Sanyo's model and LG's model. Looking forward to getting pricing on these models.

Just an FYI but Thomson is RCA. The player is being marketed under the Thomson label in Europe and under the RCA label in the US.

It does appear that Thomson or someone else they contracted is manufacturing these for Toshiba as well. So the question is not would you spend $500 for a Toshiba player but would you spend $500 for an RCA player since they are one and the same. It's funny that three of the HD-DVD players are actually the same model. Reminds me of Ford/Mercury in the 1990's.

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post #102 of 2106
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by 1984
Hey all,

The Digital Bits is going to have a full HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray report up soon but from the sound of things Blu-Ray dominated to show. Not surprising considering the studio and manufacturer support behind it. They have been platform agnostic in the past and have been in favor of a unified format so it should be interesting to hear what they have to say. The report is supposed to be up later on today.


I'll have lots more to say later this evening and tomorrow, but let me just tell you this much now: the buzz at CES 2006 was all about Blu-ray Disc. For virtually everyone I spoke with, from hardware reps to studio execs to random, run-of-the-mill attendees on the convention floor, Blu-ray had people talking. I have to tell you this as well: Having seen all the displays, talked the tech and kicked the tires a little bit, Blu-ray Disc has me genuinely excited again - more than I've been in a long while, since back in the early days of DVD, when Divx finally threw in the towel and our current favorite home video format really took off.


In the meantime take a look at their pictures from the show floor. Six pages in all. They weren't kidding. Blu-Ray really did seem to dominate the show.

Thanks for the pictures. Blu-ray's BD-Java interactive menus look leaps and bounds better than what was shown for HD-DVD's iHD inteactive menus. I wish I could see more of the interactive menus of both formats to see if that holds true. In the meantime though, it looks like BD-Java is the right choice.
post #103 of 2106
I haven't read this thread to thoroughly... yet, but I would like to say (as ridiculous as it may seem) that Apple will have some sort of Blu-Ray support offered up tomorrow. GAASSSP! How can this be when the format has yet to be finalized? Beats me, but we shall see.
post #104 of 2106
The ipod is a poor comparison. DVD players far outsell iPods, TVs outnumber computers in US homes. The iPod isn't 2x more expensive than its competitors either.

Nowhere has it been established that I dislike Sony. I dislike some of their actions but I am a fan.

Quote:
more studio support and movies, better quality (1080P vs 1080i), more storage space, and more durability

The first is subject to change, the second cannot be proven the third is a fact and the 4th cannot be proven. So half of these arguements can easily be refuted because they are based on conjecture.

So the assumption is everyone wants to game? There are many households that don't want game players. You place too much upon the shoulders of the PS3.

Google LG HD-199 and tell how chunky that player is. It's damn sleek.

Quote:
They call that personality disorder narcissism

You must have pulled that right from the DSM IV TR4 counselor. However I doubt I have that particular disorder more like confrontational disorder or something like it

Quote:
I thought he knew everything?

far from it but I'm always willing to learn. I doubt I'll have to eat too much crow. CES 2006 was an opportunity for Blu Ray to erase all doubts about the war and frankly they didn't really impress overall IMO of course. Bill Hunt may disagree.



Quote:
In the meantime though, it looks like BD-Java is the right choice

You gleaned that from looking at some graphics


Well Apple may have a Blu Ray player but what are you going to play on it? The media won't be here until April.
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post #105 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by rongold
I haven't read this thread to thoroughly... yet, but I would like to say (as ridiculous as it may seem) that Apple will have some sort of Blu-Ray support offered up tomorrow. GAASSSP! How can this be when the format has yet to be finalized? Beats me, but we shall see.

The format was finalized a few days ago. There will be no Blu-ray drives for months, so Apple can't announce a Blu-ray product tomorrow (except maybe BD-9 authoring in DVD SP, but that's more of a NAB-type announcement). But maybe Steve will show some sort of Blu-ray demo.
post #106 of 2106
Why would Apple go through the effort.

You're not going to get an affordable drive for some time. You won't be able to play movies because you'd need HDCP on your monitor. Even if they could use the Pioneer recorder where would you get the content from as a consumer or the media?

I think in 2007 we can entertain the idea of Blu Ray or HD DVD as BTO options.
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post #107 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison

I think in 2007 we can entertain the idea of Blu Ray or HD DVD as BTO options.

2007 seems pessimistic.

I think we might see BR at the same time the Power Mac go intel. The stage is pretty well set with HD support in FC and iMovie. Assuming a decent PS3 launch you have a solid base outside the Mac base.

But yes, an announcement tomorrow is very unlikely given its a very hopeful Q3 release.

Vinea
post #108 of 2106
I think we'll have Apple tipping their hand come NAB 2006. If they add Blu Ray authoring support to DVD Studio Pro 5 then that paves the way for BD player/recorder options in future Macs.

However I don't rule out Apple having both platforms as BTO choices since their authoring tools could support both.
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post #109 of 2106
Thread Starter 
Quote:
The ipod is a poor comparison. DVD players far outsell iPods, TVs outnumber computers in US homes. The iPod isn't 2x more expensive than its competitors either.

Hehehe. You remind me of Jim Carey in Liar Liar, "Your honor, I object!...(Judge)Why?...Because it's devastating to my case!" So I guess because the example didn't fit into your mold of thinking, it is therefore a poor comparison. You want more examples...

Microsoft Windows vs. Linux
Microsoft Office vs Any Office Suite
Coke and Pepsi vs Your Local Supermarket Soda Brand
Dell/HP computer vs. Your home-built PC
Sony Playstation or Xbox vs Nintendo

Hmm, see a trend here? Yup. All those companies on the left charge more than those on the right, yet they haven't been "trumped" by price. You want more examples? Go look them up yourself,...there are many, many more. The comparisons are not poor, your ridiculous argument claiming that "price trumps all" is what is poor.

quote:
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more studio support and movies, better quality (1080P vs 1080i), more storage space, and more durability
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Quote:
The first is subject to change, the second cannot be proven the third is a fact and the 4th cannot be proven. So half of these arguements can easily be refuted because they are based on conjecture.

More studio support--you wish it is subject to change, but clearly the "momentum" is behind Blu-ray. That this could possibly be in a very, remote, distant, and delusional way change, still doesn't take away the FACT that Blu-ray has more studio support. Nice try though, still a fact.
Better quality--cannot be proven? What are you talking about? 1080P is better quality than 1080i and granted that some, and I mean some (specifically the Samsung Blu-ray player shipping in April) will output 1080i, most Blu-ray players will be outputting 1080P. This was shown, or in other words, dare I say...PROVEN, in the players at CES whereas I don't see anywhere in the spec of HD-DVD they will be outputting 1080P. And unless, you can show me otherwise, this so far as I know, is a FACT as well.
More storage space--yup, FACT.
More durability--Blu-ray discs will come with Durabis or a protective coating equivalent. HD-DVD,...oh yeah, they'll have the same protection as current DVDs which is pretty much nothing.

Conjecture, hardly. It is only conjecture to a mind that thinks, in an absolute sense, price trumps all. For those that know that there are indeed more variables to the success of a format than just price, they'll be more apt to see that your argument is the one based on conjecture.

Quote:
So the assumption is everyone wants to game? There are many households that don't want game players. You place too much upon the shoulders of the PS3. Google LG HD-199 and tell how chunky that player is. It's damn sleek.

No the assumption is that MOST will get what gives them more bang for their buck. That is, they'll choose the PS3 because, one, it looks sleeker and better, two, plays movies and games, and three, will provide a better quality picture by outputting 1080P. That, my friend, is a fair and good assumption. Heck, borderline guaranteed.

You Google LG BD199, it--a Blu-ray player from the same company--is just as "sleek" you think the HD-DVD player is from LG Electronics. In my opinion, still not as sleek as the PS3, but that's another topic. You are aware LG is producing Blu-ray players too, right? Which one will they choose, the HD-199 with limited studio support or the BD-199 that will play all the movies from 5 out of the 6 major Hollywood studios? Hmm? Oh, but there's that whole content thing again! Doh!
post #110 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by marzetta7
More durability--Blu-ray discs will come with Durabis or a protective coating equivalent. HD-DVD,...oh yeah, they'll have the same protection as current DVDs which is pretty much nothing.

Don't forget the recordable media. Blu-ray plans to use an inorganic film while HD-DVD will continue to use organic dye. A good guess would be that the inorganic material will be more stable over the years compared to the dye.
post #111 of 2106
Thread Starter 
Digital Playground (40% marketshare) of the adult industry weighs in on the side of Blu-Ray...

http://www.xbiz.com/news_piece.php?id=12735

Some news for those who believe that the next generation high definition format will be decided by the porn industry.
post #112 of 2106
While all the speculation and wishful thinking about which HD format will be adopted is fun to read, IMO there's still one basic question that has yet to be answered. Will consumers view HD/BR as the next great idea in the manner of CDs/DVDs, or will it be a niche product like LDs, or will it be the failure that SACD and MD/DAT were?

One troublesome clue that points to the last two choices above is that HD TV sales are not as robust as manufacturers had hope according to this article.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm..._bthdtv16.html
post #113 of 2106
Quote:
Some news for those who believe that the next generation high definition format will be decided by the porn industry.

I believe this to be a fallacy. Simply because the Internet wasn't available when Betamax/VHS battle began. In order to avoid shame of being seen in a XXX theatre people spent the money.

Today the internet is pumped into millions of homes and each connection is just a website away from downloadable pr0n.

I doubt XXX will have the same effect today. If you try to go rental that's a problem because some states have laws that make rental porn difficult.

I think sales of HDTV will improve as the larger screens become more affordable which sounds like it'll happen in the next 18 months .
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post #114 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
I think sales of HDTV will improve as the larger screens become more affordable which sounds like it'll happen in the next 18 months .

The main point of the Seattle Times article wasn't that price was scaring off consumers; it was that viewing technology seems to be a state of flux and people don't want to buy an HD TV now only to find it's outmoded 2 or 3 years from now.
post #115 of 2106
Thread Starter 
Quote:
I believe this to be a fallacy. Simply because the Internet wasn't available when Betamax/VHS battle began. In order to avoid shame of being seen in a XXX theatre people spent the money.

Actually, I'm in agreement with you here. Although, the support of adult video will indeed help the establishment of Blu-Ray as the next high definition standard, I, too don't think it is the all-deciding factor for Blu-ray adoption. However, I simply posted this information for those who put a lot of weight behind the history of Betamax/VHS and the porn industry.

Quote:
The main point of the Seattle Times article wasn't that price was scaring off consumers; it was that viewing technology seems to be a state of flux and people don't want to buy an HD TV now only to find it's outmoded 2 or 3 years from now.

Well, in my opinion, I've been waiting simply for HDTV sets to be just that--HDTV. More specifically, 1080P capable sets, that is sets that are capable of displaying 1920 X 1080 resolution progressive, are just being made available and have the price tag to come with it. I haven't wanted to buy an HDTV set yet because quite frankly, up until now they really weren't HDTVs. They just had the marketing going for them, but in reality, they were sets with 1024 X 768 resolution or something worse blown up on a 50in screen--it looked crappy to me. However, I believe the standard hd resolution of 1920 X 1080 will become the norm for HDTVs and prices will fall so consumers fearing outmoded TVs won't have to really worry about that. Moreover, once consumers see content that is in 1080P from the like of Blu-ray, consumers will come flocking. Also, I think the article is kind of embellishing the issue of consumers being scared off. I think normal people are just waiting for the technology to get within their price range. So, I don't really think it--viewing technology--is in a state of flux, but rather a state of progression.
post #116 of 2106
Dear Friends

I don't have any stake in the HD DVD vs Blu-Ray Disc battle, but it's a heck of a lot of fun to watch hmurchison defend his ground.

He's doing so with considerable argumentative skill.

I have forgotten which standard Apple backs. Would someone please enlighten me?

—Jaddie
post #117 of 2106
Thread Starter 
Apple backs Blu-ray. It is a member of the board of directors of the BDA. Some will try to tell you that Apple supports both but that is simply not the case. I fully expect Apple to include Blu-ray drives by the end of this year in its personal computers or by Macworld 2007.
post #118 of 2106
I would say Apple is about as neutral as they come.

March 10, 2005 Apple joins the Bluray Disc Assoc

This the PR that many refer to and consider Apple to be a Blu Ray supporter. Well they are a Blu Ray supporter and I full expect to see support for the format in hardware and software for Macs. However ....barely over a month later

April 17, 2005 Apple "reaffirms" committment to DVD Forum

Quote:
Apple is committed to both emerging high definition DVD standardsBlu-ray Disc and HD DVD. Apple is an active member of the DVD Forum which developed the HD DVD standard, and last month joined the Board of Directors of the Blu-ray Disc Association

This in conjunction with the prominent HD DVD logo and support whithin the application for burning HD DVD discs

http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/dvdstudiopro/

clearly shows that Apple is going to support both formats. I expect to see a revamp in DVD Studio Pro which adds Blu Ray authoring and finalizes HD DVD authoring as well. It is likely that from Apple's perspective it makes sense to support both platforms because they stand to sell supporting applications for both formats.
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post #119 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
I would say Apple is about as neutral as they come.

Curious how you say that here, yet just five days ago, over on the AVS Forum you say:

Quote:
hmurchison: No sweat. Hey this doesn't mean Apple doesn't have a preference though as Steve Jobs has had Sony execs pop on state at tradeshows. I'd personally call'em a blu ray lean.

(emphasis mine)
Link here

Which is it?
post #120 of 2106
Cake

Hard to say man. Apple's poker face is pretty stoic here. In ways I think they're a Blu Ray lean and we're bound to see Blu Ray recordable before HD DVD. I wouldn't be surprised to see them trumpet Blu Ray as a way to sell more authoring applications. However at the heart of things I think Apple is mainly concerned with selling apps and not pushing a format/agenda. Meaning that I expect their overall stance afer both formats have shipped for a while to be fairly neutral. We shall soon see. I hope they do support both formats and let the consumer decide.
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