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Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD (2006) - Page 21

post #801 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by 1984
There is a review of the Samsung Blu-Ray player over at the AVS forums. It looks like it is designed as an actual disc player and takes just 15 seconds to load a disc. The Toshiba HD-DVD player on the other hand is actually a PC with long booting times. This was probably done to save costs and hit the market early.

LINK

Lots of images on the second page!

EDIT: Specific times

5 seconds from power on to accepting a disc and 15 seconds to start playing the disc. So about 20 seconds to play a move compared to about a minute and a half to do the same thing on Toshiba's HD-DVD player.

Does that result in a picture quality advantage? I hear the Toshiba Qosmio plays a disc much faster as well. If that's an issue with customers (which I doubt it will be) then there are ways around it.
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post #802 of 2106
Blu-Ray Board of Directors
  • Apple
  • Dell
  • HP
  • Mitsubishi Electric
  • Panasonic
  • Philips
  • Samsung
  • Sharp
  • Sony
  • TDK
  • Thomson
  • Twentieth Century Fox
  • Disney
  • Warner Bros

Half of these vendors have either openly stated they'll support both platforms or have hinted at support for both.
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post #803 of 2106
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
Blu-Ray Board of Directors
  • Apple - Openly supports Blu-ray, has current HD DVD support
  • Dell - Blu-ray exclusively
  • Hitachi - Supports both
  • HP - Supports both
  • LG - Supports both
  • Mitsubishi Electric - Supports both
  • Panasonic - Blu-ray exclusively
  • Philips - Blu-ray exclusively
  • Pioneer - Blu-ray exclusively
  • Samsung - Blu-ray exclusively
  • Sharp - Blu-ray exclusively
  • Sony - Blu-ray exclusively
  • TDK - Blu-ray exlusively
  • Thomson - Supports both
  • Twentieth Century Fox - Blu-ray exclusively
  • Disney - Blu-ray exclusively
  • Warner Bros - Supports both

Half of these vendors have either openly stated they'll support both platforms or have hinted at support for both.

How is this half? What is half of 17? 8.5 right? I see only 7 that support both (Heck, I'm even giving you Apple, but I still think they are Blu-ray exclusive as I think we'll find out in the coming months). 10 exclusive to Blu-ray and 7 that support both. Even at this, this still gives Blu-ray support at 17 with HD DVD support at 7. So, I'm not sure where you were trying to go with this.

I took the liberty of adding Hitachi, LG, and Pioneer that were missing from your list.
post #804 of 2106
I count Disney as a company that's wavering due to the CEO Iger's statement that he thought they'd eventually support both formats.

Samsung seems to have stiffened their resolve for Blu-Ray but they were wavering back in the day as well.

Apple is not going to go exclusive anytime soon. Amir said they voted for iHD over Java and they want to sell Final Cut Studio as the editing and authoring environment for both platforms. Steve Jobs doesn't give a damn about the war he just wants to sell more software.
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post #805 of 2106
It makes sense for content providers to support both formats, whereas manufacturers can be more choosy.
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post #806 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by 1984
There is a review of the Samsung Blu-Ray player over at the AVS forums. It looks like it is designed as an actual disc player and takes just 15 seconds to load a disc. The Toshiba HD-DVD player on the other hand is actually a PC with long booting times. This was probably done to save costs and hit the market early.

LINK

Lots of images on the second page!

EDIT: Specific times

5 seconds from power on to accepting a disc and 15 seconds to start playing the disc. So about 20 seconds to play a move compared to about a minute and a half to do the same thing on Toshiba's HD-DVD player.

I was reading and saw this (not trying to spread FUD marzetta )

Quote:
Samsung BD-P1000 play only BD and DVD-Video. Can not play:

WMVHD (((((((
.ts (((((((((((
Nothingggggggggggggggggg!!! Only Orginal BD and DVD Video region 1 (us)

No USB! No Ethernet!

I am guessing WMVHD is different from VC-1, correct? So no biggie there, as I would bet that the HD-DVD player only does Original HD-DVD and DVD Video region 1. The the ability to play .ts files isn't that big either. For most people these devices are made to play the next gen disks pressed by studios. My crap DVD player does SVCD/VCD/KVCD/DiVX/etc and I have used that capability once. 99.9% of what I play is pressed DVDs (or DVD-Rs I have made with content I have produced).

The thing I found odd was the lack of ethernet. I though one of the big things with blu-ray and HD-DVD was the interactivity, and internet ability of the players. And for the $500 toshiba player to include ethernet, but not the $1000 Samsung, seems odd (when ethernet is what, a very miniscule cost addon). Not trying to spread FUD, but if the future of the format is to have an internet layer, first gen Samsung buyers would be sol whereas first gen Toshiba buyers have it from the get go, right? Yes I know this statement does sound very FUD-like, but it is an honest question. Or is the whole internet layer going to be like the alternate camera angles we were promised with DVD. A bullet point, but ultimately nothing.
post #807 of 2106
Folks let's dispense with the FUD Card and get to talking about the relevant features or missing features that exist. There's a certain amount of FUD in anything new.

The engame of both formats is high quality HD material. I for one and glad to have both competing formats. Look at Amazon.com and you'll see both HD DVD and Blu-Ray movies for as low as $19.49. Somehow I doubt we'd have $499 players and sub $20 movies if we had one format. I can take the good with the bad. There's a silver lining here and it's not hard to see.
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post #808 of 2106
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by kupan787
I was reading and saw this (not trying to spread FUD marzetta )



I am guessing WMVHD is different from VC-1, correct? So no biggie there, as I would bet that the HD-DVD player only does Original HD-DVD and DVD Video region 1. The the ability to play .ts files isn't that big either. For most people these devices are made to play the next gen disks pressed by studios. My crap DVD player does SVCD/VCD/KVCD/DiVX/etc and I have used that capability once. 99.9% of what I play is pressed DVDs (or DVD-Rs I have made with content I have produced).

The thing I found odd was the lack of ethernet. I though one of the big things with blu-ray and HD-DVD was the interactivity, and internet ability of the players. And for the $500 toshiba player to include ethernet, but not the $1000 Samsung, seems odd (when ethernet is what, a very miniscule cost addon). Not trying to spread FUD, but if the future of the format is to have an internet layer, first gen Samsung buyers would be sol whereas first gen Toshiba buyers have it from the get go, right? Yes I know this statement does sound very FUD-like, but it is an honest question. Or is the whole internet layer going to be like the alternate camera angles we were promised with DVD. A bullet point, but ultimately nothing.

1984,

Sweet post dude. I've been enjoying going through that thread. I'm interesested in seeing screenshots of the Blu-ray movies that they are to get on the 15th.

As far as the post you caught onto kupan787, I saw it too. We'll just have to wait and see for sure what components it might be missing on release on the 25th as I'm sure there will be reviews everywhere, giving us the pros and cons.

I'm not sure how Blu-ray or HD DVD attempt to fully utilize any type of internet connection. I've heard certain possibilities, but nothing concrete as of yet.
post #809 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by marzetta7
I'm not sure how Blu-ray or HD DVD attempt to fully utilize any type of internet connection. I've heard certain possibilities, but nothing concrete as of yet.

Ya, if it ends up just being for "firmware updates" then no biggie, as I coudl just order a CD if it is needed. But if they plan to do cool interactive features with disks, or games, or whatever, then yippie! I just have this feeling that it is going to have just been another bullet point feature of the next gen format, kind of like camera angles were for current DVDs.

Reading through that whole thread, a lot of people seem to be saying to wait for the Pioneer or Sony player, as they will support HDMI 1.3, and something about some video chipset. I wont even pretend to understand it all, but the gist of what I was getting was that the Sony and Pioneer players will be better and are worth the wait if you can. I dunno, I am still somewhat on the fence. I will be purchasing around Christmas time (or maybe January), so I will weigh my options then. If I go blu-ray, it will be via PS3 (unless there is a standalone for $400 or less). Hopefully by that point HD-DVD will have a few players to choose from, and will have all the gen1 issues worked out. It will most likely come down to which side has more movies I would purchase. As of today, it is HD-DVD (4 to 1), but I know that 6 months from now that could very easily change (especially with the way studios have lined up).
post #810 of 2106
Holy smokes a guy bought a Sammy BD Player in Arkansas

No movies yet but he's testing DVDs and upscaling. Woohoo let's get this battle started.

Quote:
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post #811 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
Does that result in a picture quality advantage? I hear the Toshiba Qosmio plays a disc much faster as well. If that's an issue with customers (which I doubt it will be) then there are ways around it.

Um, no. Why would it? It has a user friendliness advantage. Having a player that can actually start playing a disc in a normal amount of time is important. No one wants to wait almost two minutes. The average consumer expects a certain level of functionality. No one likes going back to dial-up after using broadband for years.

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post #812 of 2106
Glad those discs are starting up fast. Evidently the quality of the initial releases isn't holding up.

The Fifth Element and House of Flying Daggers both are getting panned on AVS. Man how did Toshiba come out of nowhere and ace the BDA like this? Execution.
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post #813 of 2106
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
Glad those discs are starting up fast. Evidently the quality of the initial releases isn't holding up.

The Fifth Element and House of Flying Daggers both are getting panned on AVS. Man how did Toshiba come out of nowhere and ace the BDA like this? Execution.

Pfffffffft! I'm sure the Fifth Element looks just great. The same with House of Flying Daggers, no matter what Amir from Microshaft says. I've heard Terminator looks amazing as well. It is also nice to know there will be close to 200 releases by the end of the year on Blu-ray, so if you don't like those two, you have 198 others to choose from as compared to the 80 or so releases that will be coming out on HD DVD.

Besides, the player hasn't actually been released yet and already you are jumping on the HD DVD acing Blu-ray mantra. Not suprising, as desperation and negativity from the HD DVD fanboys (especially those fanboys that are present over at AVS, yourself included) is nothing new. I'll wait for more objective analysis than some from a Microsoft employee who clearly has an agenda.

Ya got somthin there Murch, yeah, yeah, right on your nose there...from munching on Amir's red eye all this time. Try to clean it off next time you post will ya there buddy, cause your stinkin up the place with his same crap.
post #814 of 2106
Quote:
Pfffffffft! I'm sure the Fifth Element looks just great...no matter what Amir from Microshaft says

High Def Digest Review of The Fifth Element

still want to go with the above statement Marzetta7?


Quote:
you have 198 others to choose from as compared to the 80 or so releases that will be coming out on HD DVD.

Marzetta7 you rarely get anything right. This is another blatant gaffe by you. There are already almost 40 titles I haven't counted but by years end there will be well over a hundred HD DVD releases.

Quote:
Besides, the player hasn't actually been released yet

so...those are phantom Samsung Blu-Ray players in peoples home then right? All those people over at AVS don't really have Blu-Ray players then. I must be losing my mind

Ok for those that want "real" info here's the scoop thus far.

The Sammy BD player works well. Boots up faster than HD DVD and looks like it has a solid build. I've read that it's more sluggish when accessing front panel buttons there's a delay which doesn't exist on the HD DVD players. Those who've nabbed a player have checked out the upscaling and results are varied. I'm thinking the upscaling may be inferior to the Toshiba unit.

AVOID The Fifth Element. Clearly it's poorly encoded from the Master. Sadly House of Flying Daggers isn't getting rave initial reviews. Could it be the player or the disc we'll know but HD Digest says that 50 First Dates looks much better so I'm thinking it's the encode process that's suffered on HOFD and TFE

Is the Sammy unit worth 2x the Toshiba HD DVD. I don't think so. It lacks support for Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD. It has no ethernet port and the menus are a bit sluggish as well. However it's the only Blu-Ray player in town and if you have to have it you'll likely enjoy it very much.
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post #815 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
Is the Sammy unit worth 2x the Toshiba HD DVD. I don't think so. It lacks support for Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD. It has no ethernet port and the menus are a bit sluggish as well.

But it's not like you can select one or the other based on price. Customers will have to go with the format that has the movies they want.

Arguments about relative cost simply don't apply if the movies you want are on the more expensive format. Whomever brings me "Lord of the Rings" or "X-Men" is getting my money. If it's Blu-ray, I will have to pony up the extra cash. It's that simple.

Everybody has a movie or movies that will be the tipping point. And nobody is going to stand there in their local Best Buy and say "Gosh, 'X-Men' is on Blu-ray, but the Toshiba player is half the price, so I guess I'll buy that and watch 'Phantom of the Opera' instead." It's more likely that they won't buy EITHER player.
post #816 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
and the menus are a bit sluggish as well.

I don't think that they will compare to the Toshiba unit, which takes 10 seconds to stop after you press the stop button on the remote.

Based on the reviews of the two units, I would buy the blu-ray unit and never buy the toshiba unit - just based on ergonomics alone. Nothing as unusable as the HD-DVD player will ever enter my house.
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post #817 of 2106
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
High Def Digest Review of The Fifth Element

still want to go with the above statement Marzetta7?

Sure do. Like I said, I'm sure it still looks great, and from the review, he said it does too.

"However, make no mistake, this is a good-looking picture if you're not too critical. I bet the average consumer who saw this disc up and running at their local Best Buy would probably think it was darn swell."

"Still, complaints aside, 'The Fifth Element' does look very good, and this is hardly a bad transfer. It just is not the best that Blu-ray has to offer."

"One final note. Unlike Toshiba's first-generation HD DVD players, the Samsung BD-P1000 is capable of outputting full 1080p (at 30 fps only) via its HDMI output."

So when I hear statements like this from you...

"Evidently the quality of the initial releases isn't holding up."

that appear to generally categorize the entire Blu-ray release, I will call you on it. Yeah, thanks for the "real" info.

Quote:
so...those are phantom Samsung Blu-Ray players in peoples home then right? All those people over at AVS don't really have Blu-Ray players then. I must be losing my mind

Indeed, you are a little sick in the head. The official release is on the 20th, next Tuesday, that is my point. I'll wait to receive a full review from multiple sources before I start to criticize a product, I guess the same can't be said for you when 3 or 4 players accidently get sold and talked about on a certain forum, and then you suddenly declare the BDA getting aced...so much for objectivity there fanboy.

Quote:
Ok for those that want "real" info here's the scoop thus far.

The Sammy BD player works well. Boots up faster than HD DVD and looks like it has a solid build. I've read that it's more sluggish when accessing front panel buttons there's a delay which doesn't exist on the HD DVD players. Those who've nabbed a player have checked out the upscaling and results are varied. I'm thinking the upscaling may be inferior to the Toshiba unit.

In other words, "I'm thinking the upscaling may be inferior to the Toshiba unit since I disregard anything that was positive in regards to the Samsung unit seeing how the results are varied." Where did you hear about the supposed delay with the front panel buttons? AVS perhaps? From the same guy who gave us the number of units sold from Toshiba? Whatever man.
Quote:
AVOID The Fifth Element. Clearly it's poorly encoded from the Master. Sadly House of Flying Daggers isn't getting rave initial reviews. Could it be the player or the disc we'll know but HD Digest says that 50 First Dates looks much better so I'm thinking it's the encode process that's suffered on HOFD and TFE

Is the Sammy unit worth 2x the Toshiba HD DVD. I don't think so. It lacks support for Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD. It has no ethernet port and the menus are a bit sluggish as well. However it's the only Blu-Ray player in town and if you have to have it you'll likely enjoy it very much.

Actually, I would encourage people to EMBRACE the Fifth Element and decide for themselves, not listen to you trying to inject Microsoft and Toshiba propaganda into their brain. I say, have consumers purchase it and decide for themselves, either that or go to Best Buy or some other electronics store and take a look.

Moreover, how is it "clearly poorly encoded from the Master" when HD Digest itself said, "Still, complaints aside, 'The Fifth Element' does look very good, and this is hardly a bad transfer. It just is not the best that Blu-ray has to offer." Hmm? Answer, looks like someone is giving his version of objectivity again. Thanks, but no thanks.

Furthermore, where did you get that the menus are a bit sluggish? Was this from the varied opinions on AVS again, with your inherent disregard of any possible positives in that respect? Most likely, I would gather. Audio? Read the review again, it stated that the Fifth Element sounded great...

"This disc produces one heck of an involving and enveloping soundfield, with full use of all channels for more than just the odd effect or music cue here or there. The sense of space and imaging to the mix is often quite stunning."

"If just this one disc is any indication, I can safely say after having reviewed a couple of dozen HD DVD titles that Blu-ray is certainly capable of delivering a soundtrack as good as any I've heard on the rival format."

So please, stop the incessant whining. And please spare us the price jargon,...we are in an early adoption market, start getting a clue. Blu-ray players are priced just like CD and DVD players were historically on launch. You don't like the price, don't buy one, or just wait for the PS3 which is sure to bury HD DVD entirely at $499 and $599. And finally, if you are already not sold on the Samsung only after some opinions on some forums, then look into the Philips, the Pioneer, the Sony, and the Sharp players that will be here soon, but I'm sure you'll probably have the same type of response as we've seen thus far.

What was with the whole "dispensing with the FUD card" thing again? Yeah, yeah, more of the same from you.
post #818 of 2106
Quote:
But it's not like you can select one or the other based on price. Customers will have to go with the format that has the movies they want.

Within reason. Although HD DVD has half the studios I read a blurb that stated these studios they do have enjoy a disproportionate amount of hit moves. The combination of Warner, Paramount, Universal and New Line have created a rather larger group of popular movies.

Let's be honest while Blu-Ray gets to add a couple of notches with MGM and Lion's Gate truth is neither studio has really been a huge factor in recent years. MGM's value is basically their back catalog of stuff. If Disney comes aboard next year (and they should) I view that as more important than getting MGM or LSG.

Quote:
just based on ergonomics alone. Nothing as unusable as the HD-DVD player will ever enter my house.


But you laud the Playstation 3 as some sort of monumental achievement We'll see. Frankly at twice the price and %80 of the features the Sammy player falls short of expectations IMO.
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post #819 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by marzetta7
Sure do. Like I said, I'm sure it still looks great, and from the review, he said it does too.

And to balance things out, since you pulled out all the positive quotes, here are some of the negative ones (for those that didn't or wont read that article). Only posting this in fairness so people get the whole picture. The thing is, when the next gen is supposed to be all about superior visuals, and this review felt he was watching an upconveted DVD, I think you have an issue. And as he said, its not a player issue, but rather this one disk. I am sure as more reviews come out for other titles, things will look brighter.

Quote:
Unfortunately, as you'll find out later on down in the video section, this one didn't quite meet my expectations. So I apologize upfront that what may be the first Blu-ray disc review you read won't be an unequivocal, four-star rave.

Quote:
because quite simply 'The Fifth Element' is just not the best HD I've seen, either compared to HD DVD or even-over-the air HD broadcasts.

Quote:
However, I felt there were some deficiencies inherent in the source material itself that keep this one from hitting a homer, or even a solid triple. Though not as noticeable perhaps on the standard DVD releases (even the Superbit), 'The Fifth Element' looks oddly soft in HD, with a lack of detail and three-dimensionality that ranks it as not-quite-demo material in the high-def sweepstakes.

Quote:
This transfer is just not that sharp, at least compared to the best HD I've seen. The print is also a bit dirty in spots, which really surprised me. This all gives the image a flatter look that I'm used to on HD -- what I expected would be eye-poppingly three-dimensional throughout just plain isn't. Oftentimes, I felt like I was watching a standard DVD upconverted to 1080i -- good, but kinda fake-looking.
post #820 of 2106
Marzetta7

Oh so those slow buttons are suddenly going to speed up when the "Official" launch date hits. Ohh gotcha..thanks for the heads up. 8)

The sluggish buttons come from more than one person. The slow menus come from more than one person. Calling Robert's accuracy into question is silly you can neither prove nor disprove his statement.

Regarding TFE. Did I link to my own personal site or a 3rd party site that I have no affiliation with. Just because the results don't jive with your RDF doesn't mean they are false.

Yawn. It's always "wait for this ..wait for that" I've clearly stated the issues with the Sammy that I expect some will get fixed. You continue to make excuses and denigrate legit reviews because they don't fit in your rose tinted world.
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post #821 of 2106
Kupan787 thank you.

I linked to the article in its entirety. Some people will not listen to reason.

Over the months I've remained steadfast in my support of HD DVD. Unlike some of the BD supporters on this site I'm not being childish about this. I WILL own a BD player but I will not put up with the blatant misinformation that flies around. I prefer that my own errors be called out so that I don't make them again.

Blu-Ray is going to be a good platform. However my main sticking issue is that it's too expensive and overengineered. Toshiba has the same quality and more features for half the price. Sometimes you can be superior on paper yet that doesn't translate into a better movie experience in all cases.
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post #822 of 2106
Thread Starter 
Some info regarding initial impression of Samsung player...

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-ente...yer-180950.php

Quote:
Hands-On: Samsung BD-P1000 Blu-ray Player
READ MORE: BD-P1000, Blu-Ray, Hands-On, Home Entertainment, Samsung, TOP
Samsung launched its BD-P1000 Blu-ray player earlier this morning and I feel I need to put my cards on the table. Ive been watching the stars and I have a gut feeling that HD DVD is going to lose this bout, friends. It will not disappear completely, but it will be an also-ran down the line. Because the electronics market runs so quickly nowstuff disappears faster they can pump it out in Taiwan. UMD is off the shelves, Zip drives gave up the ghost, and thanks to Google, Microsoft Office might be getting consumptive pretty soon. The more things change, however

Samsung has produced a very interesting product. The BD-P1000 is a large, healthy device with a 20 second BRD load-time and a crisp, clean picture. On a full 1080p set, the picture is as crisp as fresh-baked pizza and the audio is surround-sound-alicious. Whereas our experience with Toshibas offering was sub-par, the brief time that we were able to spend with the BD-P1000 proved two things: Samsung knows their shit and the BR is probably the horse to bet on.

The card reader doesnt do very much except display still images at HD quality. Its a nice addition, but nothing to write home about.

Feel free to flame me in a year when HD DVDs become the reigning king, but BR is backed by Samsung and Sony as well as a few other players. HD DVD gets lip service, but I dont see much else coming out of that camp except for computer peripherals, which means HD might make a good backup medium down the line. In terms of usability and genuine content, however, BRD is probably the winner.

Well be getting a player next week, but until then, lets mull over the various possibilities for the two formats and see what we, the Gizmodo quorum, feel.
post #823 of 2106
Gizmodo is for kids.

I don't normally trumpet CNET reviews but this one seems right. No editorialzing about who's going to win. Just cold hard experience.

http://reviews.cnet.com/4532-10921_7...s&keywords=TVs

Notice this

Quote:
1080i vs. 1080p was a wash. Much ado has been made of the fact that Blu-ray players can output 1080p resolution while first-generation HD-DVD players, namely the Toshiba HD-A1 and its ilk, can output "only" 1080i. I've said before that it's nearly impossible to tell the difference between 1080i and 1080p sources on a 1080p HDTV, and after the following test, I feel even more confident that 1080p output capability is overrated.

Using the same two players hooked up in the manner described above, I put a Memento Blu-ray disc in each and set one to 1080i mode and the other to 1080p. I chose one of the few scenes with a lot of motion--Leonard's final drive back from the vacant lot to the tattoo parlor--where interlaced artifacts from 1080i, such as jagged or moving lines, should be more visible. Bouncing back and forth between the 1080i and 1080p versions, I could see no differences whatsoever. From the white lines dividing the street to the buildings and the parked cars alongside the road flashing by, to close-ups of Leonard and his wife (Jorja Fox), the two looked identical. I can imagine material that might show more of a difference, such as sporting events with lots of camera movement, but it wasn't there in the scene I watched.


Those reading this thread have heard me say repeatedly that 1080i vs 1080p outputs are no different. IVTC de-interlacing ensures you get the progressive picture diplayed on your screen.

Not the bottom of the review where the load times are discussed. I've heard much ballywhooing about load times and the reality is both players are pretty close.
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post #824 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by marzetta7
Some info regarding initial impression of Samsung player...

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-ente...yer-180950.php

Pretty lacking review, and saying things like:

Quote:
he picture is as crisp as fresh-baked pizza and the audio is surround-sound-alicious

doesn't mean much to anyone. I want some real reviews to start coming out. Put the thing through its paces, and give me indepth information about PQ, sound, navigation, options, etc. So far I have read one review of TFE, which was not so great, and this quazi-review-thing, saying it tasted like a fresh-baked pizza...err, I mean looked like a fresh-baked pizza (???)
post #825 of 2106
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
[B]Marzetta7

Oh so those slow buttons are suddenly going to speed up when the "Official" launch date hits. Ohh gotcha..thanks for the heads up. 8)

Yeah will see who gets got.
Quote:
The sluggish buttons come from more than one person. The slow menus come from more than one person. Calling Robert's accuracy into question is silly you can neither prove nor disprove his statement.

Good, who are they?....Waiting?....Still don't see proof...

What is silly is you just proved my point that your statement regarding shipped HD DVD units was crap. Gotcha!

Quote:
Regarding TFE. Did I link to my own personal site or a 3rd party site that I have no affiliation with. Just because the results don't jive with your RDF doesn't mean they are false.

Yawn. It's always "wait for this ..wait for that" I've clearly stated the issues with the Sammy that I expect some will get fixed. You continue to make excuses and denigrate legit reviews because they don't fit in your rose tinted world.

No, no, no. I'm not denigrating any legit review from Hidefdigest. On the contrary, I really like the site as it provides good balanced reviews as we saw with TFE review. I just provided the quotes from the review that clearly went against the "BDA getting aced" spin you tried to claim. Yes, he said had some somewhat critical things to say about the Samsung which is great, that's how a product may improve on any perceived or subjective shortcomings, however what is interesting is that he predicated his main critiques with "However, make no mistake, this is a good-looking picture if you're not too critical." And herin lies the problem, your incessant jadedly critiques with anything in regards to Blu-ray that borderlines straight up hostile negativity/falsehoods. How else does "BDA gettin aced" comments supposed to be interpreted?

Overall I found the review balanced, and overall positive. The only "rose tinted world" I'm living in is one that is realistic in the fact of majority support in all facets--CE, IT, and Hollywood.
post #826 of 2106
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
Within reason. Although HD DVD has half the studios I read a blurb that stated these studios they do have enjoy a disproportionate amount of hit moves. The combination of Warner, Paramount, Universal and New Line have created a rather larger group of popular movies.

Let's be honest while Blu-Ray gets to add a couple of notches with MGM and Lion's Gate truth is neither studio has really been a huge factor in recent years. MGM's value is basically their back catalog of stuff. If Disney comes aboard next year (and they should) I view that as more important than getting MGM or LSG.

But you laud the Playstation 3 as some sort of monumental achievement We'll see. Frankly at twice the price and %80 of the features the Sammy player falls short of expectations IMO.

Oh, it adds another notch with Disney, make now mistake. Disney is Blu-ray, and in no way HD DVD officially despite your hopes in a random statment made by Iger months ago. Now there hasn't been anything substantial in regards to this statment, has there been? Nothing coming to fruition in this regard,...what makes you think that next year Disney will all of a sudden support HD DVD with the measely number of units of hardware sold? Do a little more thinking and less hoping, and you should find the answer.

Lets be honest, Blu-ray has the majority of Hollywood studio support, not half.
post #827 of 2106
I am not buying the whole Samsung slow button/menu thing. Two reviews (the TFE and the cnet one) both mention good responses compared to Toshiba. The only "negative" was in the cnet review:

Quote:
From a standby state, it took 24 seconds from the time I pressed Open/Close until the disc drawer actually opened to accept a disc

But then he goes on to say:

Quote:
Responses were livelier. While the Toshiba occasionally wouldn't respond to commands or would take a long time to provide feedback that I'd issued one, the Samsung's responses were as quick as I expect from consumer electronics devices.

I think the Samsung is winning in the usability argument. The whole load time thing is a wash thought:

Quote:
From a standby state, it took 24 seconds from the time I pressed Open/Close until the disc drawer actually opened to accept a disc. After I inserted Memento, it took 58 seconds from the time I closed the drawer for the disc's menu to appear. During much of that time, an all-too-familiar Windows or Linux-style hourglass occupied the screen, along with Samsung's load screen; happily, there was no unskippable promotional stuff on the disc. We timed the Toshiba at 90 seconds to load most discs after being turned on, but that was before a firmware upgrade that reportedly cuts load times down quite a bit.

So interesting times ahead. I look forward to some heads-on reviews of teh Toshiba (firmwared up) vs the Samsung.
post #828 of 2106
YMMV

References to sluggishness

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post7841347

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post7846518

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post7846758


Looks like 3 people are experiencing this. At any rate it's not a large issue.
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post #829 of 2106
Quote:
Those reading this thread have heard me say repeatedly that 1080i vs 1080p outputs are no different. IVTC de-interlacing ensures you get the progressive picture diplayed on your screen.

This can be true with background processing. The video you are looking at is highly compressed so that will hide detail differences and both interlace and progressive scans are playing at similar frame rates on the television which reduce their difference.

In a pure sense interlaced and progressive do look a lot different. Which is why they came up with progressive scan video in the first place.
post #830 of 2106
Its fact that interlaced will have less vertical resolution than progressive if de-interlaced at the same frame rate.

I wonder too if Toshiba could be using faster frames rates. Using the increased temporal resolution to make up for loss of vertical resolution when de-interlaced at the same frame rate as progressive.
post #831 of 2106
Everything's going to suffer from first gen symptoms.

I've got a first-gen Panasonic DVD recorder deck, and that takes forever to open the draw from standby. Also, the UI on the thing was designed by a moron...

David
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post #832 of 2106
Thread Starter 
Good article...

Blu-ray vs. HD DVD: Which Has the Early Edge?

http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,126112,00.asp

Quote:
The next-generation disc formats are here--and so are hints of where the format war is going.

Melissa J. Perenson
Tuesday, June 20, 2006
A funny thing happens in a format war: At some point, the theoretical spec one-upmanship gives way to tangible reality--what the rival products are delivering, today.

After looking at the initial wave of products from both fronts, I have a few thoughts about where the format war is heading. The first products deliver on their promises of outstanding high-definition video (Toshiba's HD-A1 and HD-XA1 HD DVD players and its Qosmio G35-AV650 laptop, plus more than 25 HD DVD movies from Warner Brothers and Universal) and high-capacity, rewritable disc storage (Pioneer's BDR-101A, Sony's AR Premium VGN-AR19G notebook equipped with a Blu-ray player/burner). I'm less intrigued by the actual products than I am by what they say beneath the surface about the two warring formats.

High-Def Video: A Capacity Question?
After debuting in fits and starts, and after both formats' encountering delays due to issues surrounding the AACS (Advanced Access Content System) copy controls, HD DVD is still enjoying a slight lead to market on its rival. HD DVD came out in late April, and even though player supplies continue to be tight, new titles are steadily streaming out every week.

Meanwhile, Blu-ray has faced a few additional post-AACS setbacks--although not quite as many as I've seen inaccurately reported around the Web. Sony Pictures pushed its content launch to June 20 after Samsung announced a change in release date for its $1000 BD-P1000 player, from late May to June 25. However, both of those launches remain on schedule, the vendors claim. Jim Sanduski, Samsung's senior vice president of marketing, says, "We'll be in more than 2000 storefronts at launch, and we will have multiple units available at each of these locations. Will we sell out? I hope so. We are launching with more storefronts and more quantity than Toshiba."

Meanwhile, Pioneer shifted its planned Blu-ray player from an early summer launch to September--when the product does launch, though, it will be at $1500, $300 less than the price the company announced back in January at CES. And Sony Electronics has adjusted the expected July release of its $1000 BD-SP1 player by a few weeks. According to a company spokesperson, the move is a strategic one, to coincide with the company's August launch of 1080p televisions and its push to educate consumers about Blu-ray Disc at retail outlets nationwide.

I don't expect that we'll see dramatic, overwhelming differences in image quality between HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc movie content. I do expect it to be tough to isolate which format is superior for delivering video, given the number of variables that come into play--including choices in the video codec, bit rate, and encoder used, not to mention whether you're viewing the output over analog or HDMI, on a display capable of 1080i or 1080p.

We'll probably see subtle differences. Sony plans to encode its first generation of discs in MPEG-2, while Warner and Universal's HD DVDs are using the VC-1 or MPEG-4 AVC codec. RCA's and Toshiba's HD DVD players output at 1080i (even though the movie discs are 1080p), while the first Blu-ray players from Pioneer, Samsung, and Sony all output at 1080p.

I hope to see the same film released on both HD DVD and Blu-ray, at different bit rates and using different codecs. Only then will it be clear, visually, whether Blu-ray's greater maximum capacity of 50GB for dual-layer discs provides a tangible advantage. (HD DVD currently tops out at 30GB for a dual-layer disc; Toshiba raised the possibility of a 45GB triple-layer disc last summer, but according to the DVD Forum it has not been discussed, let alone formally added to the HD DVD spec.)

The rival media's physical storage constraints have the potential to be a greater issue in this struggle than many observers have considered up until now. Before HD DVD's launch, I had privately heard rumblings of studio concerns about HD DVD's lower capacity.

Now that I've taken a closer look at the first eight HD DVD movies I received from Warner Brothers and Universal, I can understand why. None of the eight titles could fit on a 15GB single-layer HD DVD, and half came within a mere 5GB of maxing out a 30GB dual-layer disc--even though all relied on the latest, more efficient video codecs (VC-1 and MPEG-4 AVC). The movies were The Last Samurai (which topped out at 27.3GB), Mel Brooks's Blazing Saddles (25.4GB), The Phantom of the Opera (24.8GB), Jarhead (24.7GB), The Bourne Identity (22.7GB), Serenity (19.6GB), The Fugitive (18.2GB), and Doom (16.5GB).

Granted, this is a small, random sampling, but the results nonetheless surprised me, considering that I had for so long heard HD DVD supporters say that even 15GB would be roomy for high-def content. Instead, it seems that HD DVD content is, in many cases, barely squeezing onto 30GB discs today--and the tight space leaves little breathing room for the interactive-video future that Hollywood's creative minds will dream up down the road. All of the titles I saw are first-generation; not surprisingly, their menus and level of interactivity are basic and do not reflect the complexity I expect to see from both formats in the near future. Plus, the existing extras don't take full advantage of the formats, nor were they created natively in high-definition, with high-def, wide-screen presentation in mind. And the soundtracks are more limited, typically only today's 5.1-channel sound, with just one audio commentary instead of multiple commentaries and elaborate features.

Imagine what an innovative director like Peter Jackson might have done with the on-set documentaries and featurettes for his The Lord of the Rings trilogy, had everything been filmed with HD DVD or Blu-ray Disc in mind. Something tells me that a 30GB disc wouldn't come close to being enough, and that a 45GB disc (assuming one does come to market) might get a bit snug--even if one accounts for future improvements and efficiencies in compression and disc authoring techniques.

How much space Blu-ray content will consume remains to be seen; the first titles from Sony are beginning to ship this week, and although none of them will be on 50GB dual-layer discs, other titles will ship on 50GB discs later this summer, according to Sony. But I can't help but think that this format's greater capacity will serve it well over time. That said, I'm not convinced the PlayStation 3 will be Blu-ray's trump card. Sony said nothing at the E3 Expo in May that makes me think it is truly positioning the PS3 for home-theater buffs who want a Blu-ray Disc player that's cheaper than a stand-alone box. And for those consumers who do invest $599 in the premium PlayStation 3 with HDMI output, the machine's primary purpose will likely be for playing Gran Turismo HD and other launch game titles, not for watching Hitch in high-def.

Recording
The advantage in recording is, for now, clearly with Blu-ray: Vendors in this camp are first to market with disc burners for PCs, as well as first to release mobile burners for notebooks--and the format has the higher maximum capacity. PC Blu-ray burners are shipping from Pioneer and I-O Data, with others soon to come; this month Sony is shipping its aforementioned AR Premium Blu-ray laptop, as well as its VAIO RC series of burner-equipped desktops starting at just $2150--not overly outrageous considering that a stand-alone PC burner is priced at $1000.

Officially, the HD DVD camp remains mum on the status of PC burners. Since media was introduced at Computex in Taiwan last week, and since RiData just announced that its HD DVD-R media will ship in July, one might think a burner isn't far behind. The only news from the show, however, consisted of Toshiba's display of a slimline burner for notebooks, the SD-L902A; the company offered little there in the way of specs, pricing, or timing, let alone a demonstration of the drive's readiness (and it hasn't revealed anything since). From the get-go, the HD DVD camp's stated focus has been on the home theater playback experience (with PC movie playback coming in second, and recording not even on the road map). The lack of recording capabilities restricts HD DVD to prepackaged Hollywood content; no aspiring Spielbergs can edit their own high-def films and burn them to disc. It also limits HD DVD's viability as a data storage medium.

Price
No question: HD DVD has the edge in price. RCA's and Toshiba's players start at a highly accessible $499--if you can find them.

The cheapest stand-alone Blu-ray Disc player will be Samsung's $1000 BD-P1000, due out this month. Sony's BDP-S1 will also be $1000 when it ships in August, and Pioneer's Elite BDP-HD1 will be $1500 when it debuts in September. Sony's $499 Sony PlayStation 3, due in November, will be the least expensive player of them all; however, that model won't have an HDMI output, so you won't be able to display all-digital 1080p content. The $599 version will have HDMI, at least. Nonetheless, PlayStation 3's impact as a Blu-ray Disc player may not be as far-reaching as some observers might think; I found it curious that at E3 Sony made no mention of what kind of remote control it will offer with the PS3, and I'm not fully sold on how well the PS3 will serve as a multipurpose entertainment device.

Of course, in this nascent market, one might argue that the early adopters shopping for high-def players won't be dissuaded by a $1000 price tag. But I think that Blu-ray Disc's higher cost could hurt it, unless Blu-ray player manufacturers can adequately convey to consumers that their devices deliver enough value to justify being at least twice as much as HD DVD players.

The AACS Wild Card
Forget that Blu-ray has PlayStation 3 on its side, and that Intel and Microsoft have thrown their collective weight behind HD DVD. Forget that high-definition televisions are still gaining traction, albeit with increasing speed, among consumers. Forget that HD DVD and Blu-ray are both, really, formats in their infancy, both trying to claw their way to dominance to succeed DVD--and to avoid the sad fate of their digital audio format cousins, SACD and DVD-Audio.

For now, both Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD are hampered by the fact that AACS has yet to finalize its managed copy component, the most critical aspect of the spec that remains unfinished. Without a final AACS spec, living-room high-def recorders can't proceed to market, and neither can devices that are designed to take advantage of legally copying and moving content from one disc to another--or to another device, for that matter. Original estimates put AACS's final spec as coming out in May; we're already well into June, and still there are no updates.

Until players can be manufactured to take advantage of everything from media servers to copying content, the first high-def video players from either camp should have limited appeal. I have no doubt that these players, be they Blu-ray or HD DVD, will deliver enticing high-def images. If all they do is play back content, however, they're missing a core part of the innovation that Blu-ray and HD DVD have the potential to deliver.
post #833 of 2106
My response to the author.

Bravo!,
This is a well researched and written article. I myself will own both Blu-Ray and HD DVD. I champion HD DVD though because I believe it
offers the best legacy support and meets the needs of consumers and producers alike.

One interesting thing about the article. While I normally would be concerned with the 30GB capacity of HD DVD I dont worry about that and thats because HD DVD uses the newer high efficienty codecs I expect that the size of movies will decrease and their quality will increase. Case in point Serenity is a new movie thus it was filmed on the latest technology. This film is often lauded to be the best quality HD DVD that you can buy now and it was one of the smallest films on your list. Thus we know that proportionally size does not equate to quality on a linear scale. We must take into account the Master and then the prowess of the encoding engineers.

30GB will never allow producers to be lazy but it will be enough for those producers who desire interactive content and copious extras to reach their creative apex. Love to read more from you about the subject. Regards.


More HD DVD news!!

http://hddvdformat.blogspot.com



Quote:
Universal Studios Home Entertainment seems to be pulling no stops with respect to its support for HD DVD format, with new titles added to the September HD DVD release slate.

September 12:
>> Backdraft
>> Traffic
>> Seabiscuit
>> Red Dragon

September 19:
>> Dazed & Confused
>> End of Days
>> Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas
>> George A. Romeros Land of the Dead
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post #834 of 2106
Wow

Words can barely describe how ugly things have been over at AVS since the Sammy BD player has been announced. I think Sony has majorly screwed up by going with MPEG2 on SL discs.

This is an error that they better rectify quicly. Samsung is taking returns because people are unhappy with the movie quality.
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post #835 of 2106
The Digital Bits confirms Blu-Ray issues

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents

Quote:
Well... I've had my first experience with Blu-ray Disc, and Samsung's BD-P1000 Blu-ray Disc player. For the record, I have four titles on hand... The Fifth Element and The Terminator (from Sony and MGM) and Lord of War and Crash (from Lionsgate).

You know how I keep saying that these formats are being rushed to market about a year before they're ready? And you recall how hard I was on the HD-DVD camp for their klutzy launch and buggy hardware? And you know how I said that Blu-ray Disc looked like the superior format, at least on paper? Well... unfortunately, the Blu-ray camp has dropped a dud with their big launch too. Every bit as klutzy as HD-DVD. Think Clark Kent klutzy, or Gerald Ford klutzy, or Chevy Chase playing Gerald Ford klutzy.

Let's start with the Samsung player. Nice box, nice packaging. You pull the BD-P1000 out of said packaging and it looks pretty badass. Love the lines. It's a much nicer looking player than Toshiba's HD-A1, though it's lighter and feels a little less solid. The BD-P1000's remote is nicer too... not backlit unfortunately, but it feels better in your hand and the buttons are laid out more conveniently.

Connection via HDMI is pretty easy. You fire the BD-P1000 up and the first thing you notice is a sexy blue glow from the various openings on the player. Nice... except I have yet to find a dimmer. And it's just a little too bright, you know? Anyway... the player fires up very quickly. You get a welcome screen within about 5 seconds of power-on. BIG improvement over the Tosh HD-DVD player. You can load a disc after less then 30 seconds, also an improvement over the Tosh. I also like that when it's loading or thinking, you get a little onscreen icon to let you know, rather than just nothing. At least you feel like the thing is doing something. For whatever reason, the player defaults to 720p output via HDMI... you have to go into the setup menu to select 1080i. Okay, so that's what I did.

Now it's time to look at my first Blu-ray Disc. Naturally, my hand swerved towards The Fifth Element. The title was an amazing bit of reference work on standard DVD, and that Superbit version was awesome. Obvious choice, right? Should look amazing in HD. Yeah... it should. But it doesn't. In fact... I'm not going to come out and say it looks like crap, but it is easily the worst looking high-definition title I've seen yet, and I've seen 30+ titles now. The image is muddy looking, lacking in crisp, clean detail. The colors don't quite pop off the screen like they should. Just a mess. Okay... I will say it. It looks like crap. Sony should never have released this title like this. In fact, they should be embarrassed about this disc. Seriously, if you compare the upscaled Superbit standard-definition DVD to this, the Blu-ray Disc looks only marginally better. This should have been a reference title in high-def and it's not even in the ball park. My brow furrowed in troubled surprise at this point. Wow... and not the good kind.

Next, I tried The Terminator. A big improvement. This is easily the best quality I've ever seen The Terminator looking before. Still... it's a little bit soft and gritty looking, but then it's an older film and that's the nature of the film stock used. The disc is very good looking, but not blow-you-away good. In any case, this is probably not the best title to test the video quality of Blu-ray Disc, so let's move on.

Now these two Lionsgate titles... they're much better looking. Crash and Lord of War have significantly improved clarity, crisp yet clean detail, vibrant color... they're much more like what I expected Blu-ray Disc would look like. Both have a more film-like image. And yet...

There are some problems I'm seeing right away with all of the Blu-ray Disc titles on the BD-P1000. First, when I switch to 1080i, I'm noticing some very obvious scaling issues that I don't see when the player is set to 720p. I also don't see anything like this on the Toshiba HD-A1 at any resolution, so this is specific to THIS player, which may be why Samsung ships it with 720p set by default. Second, I'm noticing a very slight "studdering" problem. About once a second, or maybe once every few seconds, the video seems to hesitate for just a instant - a tiny fraction of a second. You notice it most when the images on screen are moving quickly, or when the camera is panning. It may be that this issue is related to the first. Still trying to figure out what I'm seeing here. Lionsgate's Lord of War was the title where I noticed it first, and I'll have to check them all before knowing whether it's just this title or all of the discs. Again, it's not something I've seen on any HD-DVD titles thus far.

By the way, I haven't tested the Samsung's standard DVD upconversion capability to any real degree yet. Just FYI.

If I had to compare my initial impressions of Blu-ray Disc to those of HD-DVD... well, I certainly need to see more Blu-ray titles and spend more time with the player. I'm really just giving you my initial, off-the-cuff comments, based on less than 10 hours of viewing time with the Samsung. It's worth noting that we've only seen one player for each format, so it's hard to say what issues are specifically related to the players, and what are format related. But right now... I think I may end up giving Round One of this format war to HD-DVD, and that surprises the hell out of me. Sure, that Tosh HD-DVD player was a lemon until the firmware upgrade, but it's worked like a charm since. And the first 25 or so HD-DVD discs I've viewed just look better overall than the first 4 Blu-ray Discs I've seen. The HD-DVDs also have a LOT more extra features than the Blu-ray Discs (even if you consider that most of the extras are recycled from standard DVD). For the record, Terminator on Blu-ray has 7 deleted scenes and 2 featurettes, recycled from standard DVD. Fifth Element has a pop-up trivia track, again from the standard DVD. The Lionsgate titles have nothing. I keep hearing these comments (both official and unofficial) from Blu-ray execs saying that they're leaving off the extras so they can give all the extra disc space over to the best video quality possible. Which tells me that Blu-ray is having major disc space problems. I've heard from more than a few industry sources that Blu-ray is having trouble getting the dual-layered BD media to work, which means that discs with lots of extras and good video quality aren't an option now. It also means that longer movies aren't an option now either. Both are problems for this format that don't seem to be troubling HD-DVD at the moment - at least not at first glance, based on the initial title offering.

What all of this goes to prove, of course, is just what I've been saying all along: These formats are being rushed to market before they're ready. And it also proves that the best option for the vast majority of you out there is just to save your money. Don't even bother with Blu-ray Disc and HD-DVD for at least a year, because there are significant bugs to be worked out yet. Wait until better hardware and software is available at a better price, and the early adopter types have dealt with the problems and getting the manufacturers and studios to fix them. Anyway, I'll have more to say about Blu-ray Disc and the Samsung player in the next few days, as I spend a little more time with it. But so far, I'm less than impressed.

hmurchison wins Round 1
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post #836 of 2106
Quote:
I think Sony has majorly screwed up by going with MPEG2 on SL discs.

I didn't understand why they would stay with MPEG 2 either. I've heard that cable operators are looking at moving on to MPEG 4 and VC-1.

Quote:
This is an error that they better rectify quicly. Samsung is taking returns because people are unhappy with the movie quality.

I guess this is why Sony, Pioneer, Panasonic have pushed back their BD players.

Toshiba and Samusung have likely released their players too quickly. Both likely know they are filled with bugs. I suppose the plan is to get the product out there to early adopters and patch it as they go.

Fine by me I'm not buying either for awhile.

Quote:
This is easily the best quality I've ever seen The Terminator looking before. Still... it's a little bit soft and gritty looking, but then it's an older film and that's the nature of the film stock used.

Its not necessarily the film stock itself. The Godfather was shot on even older film stock and its a beautiful film. The softness could be from a number of things.

Back then visual effects were basically copied onto the live action image. So by the time you had a final image it may have been produced from several copies. Which added grain and softened the image.

But today much of that can be cleaned up with a proper restoration.
post #837 of 2106
Teno

in what fashion are you connected to movie or video production?
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post #838 of 2106
Cinematographer
post #839 of 2106
Samsung again mulls over a Universal player

Quote:
amsung Electronics will consider later this year if it will launch a high-definition movie player compatible with both the Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD formats, it said Tuesday.

Samsung is a supporter of the Blu-ray Disc format, and its first player will go on sale in the United States in the next few days. The BD-P1000 is the first consumer Blu-ray Disc player from any manufacturer, and its launch will kick off full competition between the rival formats. Toshiba, which is the main backer of the HD DVD format, started player sales in March.

There are only a few technical differences between the formats, but theyre big enough to make them mutually incompatible. Thats a headache for consumers because most Hollywood studios have initially committed to releasing movies on one or the other disc format but not both.

Samsung is already working on a drive that handles both Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD, said Kim Du-Hyon, an assistant manager in Samsungs home-platform product planning division, in a briefing with reporters at the companys headquarters in Suwon, South Korea.

"We dont have a plan to make an HD DVD-only player but are considering a universal player," he said. "We are preparing HD DVD [support] now, and if we launch a universal player, it will be the end of this year or early next year."

Kim underlined Samsungs belief that Blu-ray Disc will beat HD DVD in the commercial marketplace, but said Samsung will consider a universal player should HD DVD prove as successful as Blu-ray Disc.

Samsung is not alone in working on drives that support both formats, according to industry sources.

While LG Electronics has publicly declared its plans to make drives for both formats, many of the leading Blu-ray Disc backers are also members of the DVD Forum and so have access to HD DVD technology and specifications.

In addition, some companies on each side of the battle have optical disc production joint ventures. Samsung is partnered with Toshiba in Toshiba Samsung Storage Technology and Sony and NEC, which back Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD, respectively, formed Sony NEC Optiarc in April this year.

That would be smart Samsung. I think you'll find that HD DVD does VERY well.
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Get this. Sony's BD player delayed until late Oct!!

My oh my what a turn of events. Toshiba's going to get quit a lead by the time BD players are shipping in quantity.
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