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Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD (2006) - Page 23

post #881 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
I think the Sammy has a bug in their player. It's been confimed that the Sammy is a 1080i player that takes the signal and runs it through a de-interlacer for final 1080p output. I'm not sure if this is the reason for the HDMI issues or not.

If that was the case shouldn't the picture still look the same through
HDMI & component?

The Panasonic guy was surprised by the difference in quality.

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post #882 of 2106
Thread Starter 
Toshiba looking for a truce?

http://gadgets.engadget.com/2006/06/...blu-ray-truce/
Quote:
Toshiba calls for HD DVD Blu-ray truce
Posted Jun 27th 2006 6:54AM by Ryan Block
Filed under: Home Entertainment

We don't even really know how to approach this one, but we all well remember the talks that went down between Toshiba and Sony (et. al.) before Blu-ray and HD DVD hit the market; they were going to truce, they were going to unify, it was going to be more like DVD, less like Betamax and VHS. And, of course, we all know how that went. And no matter how many times we think talks might still be in the cards, they get shut down for one reason or another, bitter rivals to the end. Except when one of the most powerful men in the Japanese electronics business, Toshiba President Atsutoshi Nishida, tells investors "We have not given up on a unified format. We would like to seek ways for unifying the standards if opportunities arise." Oh sure, we could take that at face value and all, but it sure does go a long way to assuage stockholders' fears that a format war might yet render Toshiba's technically inferior HD DVD format obsolete and useless, telling them that a unified high definition video format might still be in the cards. Call us pessimists, but we'd love nothing more than for these guys to prove us wrong.

I'm not going to try and see too much into this, but it would be nice if we indeed had a unified format.
post #883 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by mello
If that was the case shouldn't the picture still look the same through
HDMI & component?

The Panasonic guy was surprised by the difference in quality.


That's kind of what I was thinking. Unless the component output doesn't go through that final de-interlacer.

Quote:
I'm not going to try and see too much into this, but it would be nice if we indeed had a unified format.

Yea I suggested this on the Blu-Ray forums.

Quote:
Both companies commit to universal drives.

SL 15GB discs go bye bye ...SL25GB discs go bye bye.

Here's the strategy


HD-9 discs comprise the ultra low end. Suitable for 90 bare bones programme. Movies are sub $15

DL30GB is your volume product movies are $15-35

DL50GB is your premium product. Lossless Audio is standard. Movies are routinely 35-40 dollars.

Hardware supports HDD drives for Managed Copy and DLNA for networking. Both platforms allow a generous tradeup to the new Universal Format. Royalties are paid to both groups.

The SoC integration is going to allow this very soon. Why not investigate the possibility?

I'd pay for choice like this. I think audio/videophiles would to. Lossless audio and kickbutt AVC/VC-1 codecs. Where do I sign?

Sony Blu-Ray equipped VAIO Desktop review.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1979346,00.asp
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post #884 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
HVD certainly sounds appealing but not as a movie distribution format but more of an archiving solution.

While neither HD DVD or Blu-Ray offer a 13x increase in space there wasn't a need to require such a space increase. Music has always been easier to compress than video. A more appropriate comparison would have been to compare VHS to DVD. I assure you VHS holds more than 700MB worth of data.

The next problem is that we're simply looking from the wrong point of view here. The goal is to have transperancy from the master to the distributed format. Humans tend to default to thinking linearly and assume that more data means higher quality but there's a limit to what we can perceive.

Both Blu-Ray and HD DVD will come close to showing you what the master looks like. I'm not sure HVD would translate into a better viewing experience unless we're talking about a new codec

Yeah but ultimately, archival storage and movie distribution coincide for one simple reason. People like to watch movies on their computers and they don't like to buy multiple drives to watch movies and store data.

That's why I think instead of big companies squabbling over relatively unimpressive formats, they should put their collective energy into providing a future-proof unified solution that meets all the needs of consumers.

I think the big reason why companies are going for these kinds of formats is because they leave the market open for further upgrades. Imagine if we all got HVD. The video technology market would grind to a halt because you just don't need more than 1TB per disc.

Although who knows, in 20 years time, kids might be laughin' at the poor kid with the HVD drive because he can't watch his 3D fully interactive smell-o-vision 20TB movie.
post #885 of 2106
HVD would be sweet if it could be presented in the tootsie-roll form factor used in Star Trek.

That would be pleasantly portable.
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post #886 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by Splinemodel
HVD would be sweet if it could be presented in the tootsie-roll form factor used in Star Trek.

That would be pleasantly portable.

I read they can make a 30GB disc the size of a credit card.

Not even that impressive really when they can get 8GB+ flash onto a fingerprint size card.

I actually hope one day that flash will take over. I just don't like the principle behind the CD/DVD or HD. Internally moving parts are prone to failure at any time. Solid State is the future.

But why are they still so frickin expensive?

If 8GB flash or SD cards were on the market for 50 pence or so, we could fit feature films onto them that even portable devices like the PSP could use. UMD wouldn't have been necessary.

They are even fast enough now reaching 20Mbits/s+.

Anyway, here's some more about HVD:

http://www.maxell-usa.com/content/pa...p&Open=pm24045

One good thing is it doesn't need to spin the discs so the drives can be much quieter and won't generate so much heat. 1st gen transfer rate is about the same as 16x DVD but for 3rd gen it says 960Mbps which is 6 times faster than 16x DVD. C'mon 2010.

The big downside is the write once. I think Blu-Ray is like DVD-Ram so it can probably be used for recording TV shows with timeslip.
post #887 of 2106
Is this really that interesting a topic that we need 26 pages on it?

I'm just waiting for one to dominate so I can pick products to buy, like DVD +/- R and betamax/vhs. Other than that there's no point in even speculating

...

My money's on blu-ray
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post #888 of 2106
No it's not that interesting.

But before I put my "money" on something I like to know what I'm getting in the deal.
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post #889 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
No it's not that interesting.

I guess it depends. For me this has been really good. A lot of information has been posted here, for both sides. I have learned a lot in the whole process. Plus, I personally like talking and reading about tech. I am sure this thread will go on for a good while longer, while the first gen stuff is getting worked out.
post #890 of 2106
Thread Starter 
Sony to win with Blu-ray by sticking to its guns

http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/4811/53/
Quote:
By Stan Beer
Thursday, 29 June 2006
There is something to be said for sticking to your guns if you have a superior product. At least that's what Sony demonstrably believes judging by its recent policies on pricing. PlayStation 3 will be by far the most expensive gaming platform but Sony makes no apology because it believes, despite assertions to the contrary, that it can wipe the floor with Xbox 360 and Nintendo Wii. Likewise, Sony is convinced that its Blu-ray technology is set to win the high definition video stakes and there are signs that the HD DVD backers know it.

When Sony lost the last video war a few decades back to an inferior technology it must have really hurt. This time round, however, history does not look set to repeat itself. The first Blu-ray players have come out on the market from Samsung, three months behind the first Toshiba HD DVD players and at double the price. However, whereas Samsung is almost certainly selling its players at a profit, technology analysts assert that Toshiba must be selling its units at about US$200 below cost.

The upshot of this is that the early Blu-ray players, though expensive, are correctly priced, whereas the early HD DVD players are irrationally and unsustainably priced. Sony also has an ace up its sleeve with PS 3, which will include a Blu-ray player on board. It is no secret that Sony intends to ship millions of its PS3 players at a staggering loss of up to US$400 per unit. However, Sony, unlike Toshiba, is also in the content business and can recoup those losses through the sale of games.

For Sony, PS 3 is a flagship platform and the stakes are high. It has put everything into the integration of Blu-ray with PS 3 so it cannot afford to lose the high definition video war, which is why it probably won't. Toshiba, by contrast, appears to be dipping its toe in the water with HD DVD. It has squandered the opportunity it had by being first to market with the technology and there are indications that HD DVD players that only enable 30 GB of storage per disk are not demonstrably cheaper to manufacture than Blu-ray players which store 50 GB.

In addition, Sony has a well planned strategy of getting Blu-ray into the hands of millions of early adopter consumers at a reasonable price through the sale of PS 3 units. Toshiba has no discernable equivalent strategy.

It is in the face of these undeniable facts, that we hear noises coming from Toshiba's president Atsutoshi Nichida calling for unification of the two competing formats. The rhetoric is most likely political speak because there is nothing in it for Sony to accept such a compromise. Sony has burned all its bridges and committed itself to the hilt to Blu-ray. Toshiba on the other hand has just revealed that it is only luke warm on the prospect of fighting a protracted and expensive battle with a committed and formidable competitor. Thus, we may even see at sometime in the future, when the economy of scales is in place, the release of Toshiba Blu-ray players.
post #891 of 2106
Thread Starter 
Plextor Ships First Blu-ray Drive

http://www.dvd-recordable.org/Article2789.phtml
Quote:
Plextor has launched its first Blu-ray drive - the PX-B900A. The internal (ATAPI) re-writer drive is capable of writing and re-writing Blu-ray discs at 2x (BD-R and BD-RE) up to a maximum capacity of 25GB for single layer and 50GB for dual-layer.

Rudy De Meirsman, Sales & Marketing Manager of Plextor Europe, says: "We are delighted to be launching our first Blu-ray device. Plextor has a long history in providing premium, high reliability optical drives and the new PX-B900A is no exception. This launch marks the start of a family of Plextor drives utilising Blu-ray technology."

The PX-B900A not only uses the latest Blu-ray technology, but is also a dual-layer DVD drive that combines multiple formats - DVD+/-R/RW and RAM - into one. It can accept both 12cm and 8cm discs (in the horizontal position) and has a large 8MB buffer to ensure there is no data interruption. Write speeds: 2x BD-R/BD-RE, 8x DVD+R/-R/+RW, 6x DVD-RW, 4x DVD+R/-R DL, 5x DVD-RAM, 24x CD-R and 16x CD-RW.

The Plextor PX-B900A has been developed to strict environmental and recycling standards - to meet EU RoHS (Restriction of Hazardous Substances) and WEEE (Waste Electrical and Electronic Equipment) directives.

The Plextor PX-B900A will be available from September/October 2006 at Plextor?s network of dealers. It is covered by Plextor?s Fast Warranty Service (2-year warranty in the EU, Norway and Switzerland (Collect & Return); other countries 1-year carry-in).
post #892 of 2106
Thread Starter 
Another interesting article...

http://gear.ign.com/articles/715/715613p1.html
Quote:
Toshiba's Questionable Commitment to HD-DVD
Toshiba is selling the HD-A1 at unsustainable loss, and company President Nishida is calling for format unification. Is Toshiba really in to win?
by Gerry Block
June 28, 2006 - The next-gen DVD format war has officially begun, but instead of artillery and destruction, the opening volley looks a lot like a white flag. Toshiba President Atsutoshi Nishida made headlines recently on the HD-DVD / Blu-ray conflict while speaking at an annual shareholder's meeting. The helmsman told his audience "We have not given up on a unified format. We would like to seek ways for unifying the standards if the opportunities arise." His statement surprised many, as it comes at a critical period for Toshiba's own HD-DVD format, which launched on April 18th , and has since met sell-out demand for the limited supply of 7,500 Toshiba HD-A1 units that were made available.

The first player and movies for the Sony-backed Blu-ray format launched just weeks ago, finally putting the formats head-to-head in the open marketplace. While this would traditionally mean that full-scale war has begun, few skirmishes are occurring at retail or in advertising. Conciliatory remarks regarding a truce between the formats by the man in charge of Toshiba are also surprising at this juncture and seem to beg for analysis.

Those familiar with the videogame industry have grown up in a culture of launch blitzkriegsmarketing frenzies, massive press coverage, and fiery rhetoric from company executives. The term "soft-launch" isn't in the videogaming vernacular, and has seen little use in general consumer electronics in the years since Steve Jobs set an industry example with his style of dramatic hardware announcements. Nevertheless, HD-DVD and Blu-ray have each soft-launched in textbook style, appearing with little fanfair at retail and in limited supply.

From Sony's perspective, Blu-ray and the PlayStation 3 will launch hand in hand this coming November, and as such the company is saving their big guns for the holiday season. Toshiba, on the other hand, has no such tie-in for HD-DVD, aside from the possibility of an add-on drive for the Xbox 360. Before the format's launch in April, much was made of the potential for Toshiba to leverage HD-DVD's head start over Blu-ray, yet the company chose to make little of the opportunity.

The wisdom of Toshiba's decision has been widely debated. Viable explanations for the soft-launch range from lack of available media and limited production capacity to debatable early consumer demand. While each factor likely played a roll in how Toshiba formulated their game plan, revelations on the production costs of Toshiba's HD-A1 and Atsutoshi Nichida's recent comments call into question whether Toshiba is really out to win the war at all.

Technology analysts at iSuppli recently announced that, according to their generally respected calculations, the Toshiba HD-A1 HD-DVD player costs around $700 to deliver to retail. The unit is sold for $499, which means that Toshiba is taking $200 of loss on each HD-A1 shipped. While the market model of selling hardware at a loss in order to make profits from media sales has long been established in the videogame industry, it is practically unheard of in the general consumer electronics space. While Toshiba does receive a licensing fee on all HD-DVD media, thanks to the fact that it is one of the format's founders, such royalties are unlikely to be great enough to support continuing volume sales of the HD-A1.

While efficiencies of scale could eventually drive the manufacturing costs down, Toshiba would have to commit to the format in a serious way and invest heavily in manufacturing infrastructure, a decision that the company's upper management is hesitating to make. In light of a currently unsustainable manufacturing and distribution model and a stated willingness to devise a new compromise standard, Toshiba's long-term commitment to the HD-DVD format appears questionable.

Format wars have never been good for consumers or the companies that become embroiled, and the battle over the next-gen DVD format is an unfortunate consequence of the breakdown of unification talks that occurred in 2005. Sony and Toshiba came to loggerheads in the discussions and each left the meetings promising to drive the other out of the market. Taking this history and Toshiba's hesitation to fully commit to HD-DVD into consideration, the HD-DVD vs Blu-ray conflict appears more like a game of corporate bluff-calling than a real war. Sony has committed to Blu-ray in a huge way, staking both the PlayStation 3 and much of their related consumer electronics arms on the viability of the format. Toshiba, on the other hand, is all but detaching themselves from HD-DVD by taking no advantage of their first-to-market position, releasing hardware at unsustainable loss, and now referencing a willingness to give up on the format altogether in favor of a unified standard.

In the end, there will be a victor and a loser in this format war. Sony believes that it will be able win the competition for installation-base on the back of demand for the PS3. In terms of corporate commitment, Sony has pledged to ship 6 million PlayStation3s, at massive loss per console, before the end of the financial year. If the videogame console war goes Sony's way, the hardware losses will be recovered via game sales. Toshiba, on the other hand, does not have the ability to recoup money spent selling hardware below cost, and convincing its own management and hardware partners that they can actually win the format battle against Sony's committed onslaught will likely prove more and more difficult as time goes by.

With so much already invested in the format, Sony is unlikely to ever accept a unified standard if the PS3 is even a moderate success. Toshiba must decide now to either recommit itself and partners to HD-DVD and work hard for an installation base that will appear comparable to the PS3's first month sell through, or bail out of the conflict altogether. Sony has called Toshiba's bluff in the format war, and Toshiba has responded with a 7,500 unit launch at the expense of $1.5 million in losses and pleas for unification. Perhaps it's not the launch that was soft, but the Toshiba executives in charge.
post #893 of 2106
It's rather ironic that people find Toshiba seeling HD DVD below cost something newsworthy.

This is exactly the same model that game consoles use. I think Toshiba is looking to avoid a protracted war of marketing and FUD. Toshib is like the antithesis of Sony. They are the conservative but technically proficient Japanese company. Sony is brash and arrogant but backs up a lot. Both companies have excellent IP in optical formats. Both have co-designed Cell processors along with IBM.

My recommendations are for Toshiba to stay the course and keep the door open for compromise. Their product is excellent. Keep teaming up with Microsoft and you have your answer for the Playstation.

I actually "like" this format war. Companies competing for my hard earned dollars means I pay less but also have the chance of buying into the wrong format. Such is the life....low risk...low reward.
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post #894 of 2106
It certainly seems like Blu Ray is winning. Look how many partners they have. They already are advertising, and they already have a PR site up. I do still think HD-DVD is a more marketable name and logo.
post #895 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by icfireball
It certainly seems like Blu Ray is winning. Look how many partners they have. They already are advertising, and they already have a PR site up. I do still think HD-DVD is a more marketable name and logo.

Yeah I know it's kind of hard to compete with stuff like this.

http://corp.ign.com/



Quote:
IGN Entertainment, a unit of Fox Interactive Media, Inc., is a leading Internet media and services provider focused on the videogame and entertainment enthusiast markets. IGN's properties collectively attract more than 31 million unique monthly users worldwide. Our network of videogame-related properties (IGN.com, GameSpy, FilePlanet, TeamXbox, 3D Gamers, Direct2Drive and others) is the web's number one videogame information destination and attracts one of the largest concentrated audiences of young males on the Internet. We also own and operate the popular movie-related website, Rotten Tomatoes, and one of the leading male lifestyle websites, AskMen.com. In addition, we provide technology for online game play in videogames.(read more)

Do you ever get the feeling that "your" best interests aren't being accounted for as a consumer. Do you ever get that sneaky suspicion that some articles have some underlying motives?

Marzetta may like posting info from "web rags" but I haven't trusted the media in years.
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post #896 of 2106
From a link from Maz:
<<In the end, there will be a victor and a loser in this format war. >>

The jury is still out on this assertion. There might very well really be two loosers if the number of consumers needed for critical mass decide to sit this one out.

In reading through the various posts by Maz and Hutch one thing continually comes to mind the earliest early adopters seem to have more money than sense.
post #897 of 2106
Is Sony total insane, or just partially. Sony to raise game prices

Lets see

more expensive console + more expensive games = more money made!!!

Thats got to be the thinking, right?

If 85% of the games are made for both systems, and both will look the same, but one costs me less to get started, and less for the game, why would I buy the PS3? I am sure EA titles will cost the same on both platforms, but then there is still the fact that I can get the Xbox 360 for much less. And it has a solid and known online interactivity layer (Xbox arcade, Xbox live, etc). As for the PS3...who knows.

The more I read online about the PS3 and Sony, the more negative stuff I hear. I can't recall the last positive article I saw about the PS3. Are people still thinking that the PS3 is going to sweep this round? Is it still going to be "the big player" in the hd-dvd/blu-ray format war?
post #898 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by kupan787
[B]Is Sony total insane, or just partially. Sony to raise game prices

Lets see

more expensive console + more expensive games = more money made!!!

The sony exec is playing safe.

I fully expect PS3 games to cost more than PS2 games, just like Xbox360 games cost more than Xbox games. It's a new technology thing.
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post #899 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by Blackcat
The sony exec is playing safe.

But if you are playing it safe, why even throw out the $100 figure. When asked, why not just given no comment, or say something like "prices will reflect what the market allows", or "we will be in the same range as the 360". Even if the Sony guy knows prices will be more, you don't throw out the high ball figure, because that is what people will be left talking about.
post #900 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by kupan787
But if you are playing it safe, why even throw out the $100 figure. When asked, why not just given no comment, or say something like "prices will reflect what the market allows", or "we will be in the same range as the 360". Even if the Sony guy knows prices will be more, you don't throw out the high ball figure, because that is what people will be left talking about.

As a guess, and knowing journalists, he was cornered:

"How much will PS3 games be? $39? $59? $99?"

The Sony PR droid is probably a nervous wreck by now.
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post #901 of 2106
He's basically saying "don't crucify me when you see some $79 titles"

Man the PS3 is certainly becoming the game console for the middle class and up. Microsoft must be licking their chops here.

We'll see of 6 million people feel the Sony is worth it.
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post #902 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
He's basically saying "don't crucify me when you see some $79 titles"

Man the PS3 is certainly becoming the game console for the middle class and up. Microsoft must be licking their chops here.

We'll see of 6 million people feel the Sony is worth it.

Here in the UK pre-order games are £49 RRP, whereas PS2 is £39 RRP.

I won't be buying many at £49!
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post #903 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by kupan787
Is

Are people still thinking that the PS3 is going to sweep this round? Is it still going to be "the big player" in the hd-dvd/blu-ray format war?


the funny thing kupan is that you will still hear it from people "after the first year sony will catch up and pass both nintendo and microsoft in market share"


its the dumbest and most assumptious bullcrap i've ever heard. all of it is based on past performances

which in my opinion is incredibly ridiculous given the fickle nature of the industry and its audience.
post #904 of 2106
Regardless of whether it's overpriced, underpowered, ugly etc etc PS3 will sell out. Anybody who thinks otherwise is deluded. Whether sales continue like PS2 depends on reviews, games, etc.
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post #905 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by kupan787
[B]Is Sony total insane, or just partially. Sony to raise game prices

Lets see

more expensive console + more expensive games = more money made!!!

Thats got to be the thinking, right?

The article read to me that there was an upper limit on games and prices would be closer to current pricing rather than closer to $100.

Oblivion on the 360 is $69.99 on Amazon for the 360. I'm going to guess that PS3 games will hit the same $69.99 price point and be price competitive on all shared titles.

The thinking is probably that the games cost more to make this generation than the last given the relatively high bar set for production values and new development environment. So devs will be charging more just to break even.

Consoles will still be a good value even at $10 more per title because the resale market for used console games is fairly solid. Used PC games have disappeared from the local retailers. Personally, I'm a PC gamer but even an expensive PS3 is a better value than a real gaming rig. A PS2 (assuming a non-buggy one) purchased at retail in 2000 for $299 would have lasted 6 years before the replacement cycle to a PS3.

A top end 2000 computer would not likely have survived as a viable gaming rig for the latest titles (gutting it and replacing motherboard, power supply, memory, vid card, drives, etc is an like saying you only had 1 scotch by refilling the glass when it got low).

I could buy a $2000 Alienware Aurora or a $700 Alienware Area 51 or a $700 PS3.

Which of the three will have the longest gaming legs? Which of these can I buy AAA titles a few months after release for $15-$25 on the used market?

Vinea
post #906 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by Blackcat
Regardless of whether it's overpriced, underpowered, ugly etc etc PS3 will sell out. Anybody who thinks otherwise is deluded. Whether sales continue like PS2 depends on reviews, games, etc.

I completely agree. There will be people that will buy it because "it's a Sony". The question to be seen is if it will continue to sell as well, or if it ends up taking backseat to Nintendo and Microsoft this round. If that is the case, Blu-Ray looses it's shoe in the door, as most of the initial sales will not be for a high-def player, but for gaming.
post #907 of 2106
The PS3 is *not* overpriced, it is *underpriced*. Sony has said so themselves. How else do you think they have a blu-ray drive in their console and it's still only $600? They're using the games that *they* produce to make up for the loss.
post #908 of 2106
Toshiba Exec says he expect HD DVD enabled Xbox 360 this year

Quote:
A Toshiba senior executive has predicted that Microsoft will release an Xbox 360 model with an internal HD DVD drive before the end of the year.

According to the general manager of Toshiba Information Systems Division in Australia, Mark Whittard, the high definition video war between Toshibas HD DVD and Sonys Blu-ray formats will spill over into the games console market within months.

One looming potential war extending from this is the Xbox versus PlayStation, says Whittard. The Xbox is coming out with an HD DVD player towards the end of this year. With Microsofts marketing engine behind HD DVD, who knows what will happen.

The Xbox 360 is coming out with a HD DVD player? This is news to us. We were under the impression that there would just be a HD DVD plug-in available.

I would imagine that there are plans in place to put an HD DVD drive internally in future revisions of the product, says Whittard. Theyre not speaking about it publicly at the moment but I would expect them to do that and fairly soon.

Whittard repeated his expectation that an Xbox 360 with an internal HD DVD drive will be available soon during an interview where he refuted claims that Toshiba is selling its HD DVD player at a loss

The Thlot Plickens. The PS3 is going to have a bigger battle to contend with. I'd consider scuttling my plans for a PS3 in lieu of an HD DVD Xbox 360.
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post #909 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by Lust
The PS3 is *not* overpriced, it is *underpriced*. Sony has said so themselves. How else do you think they have a blu-ray drive in their console and it's still only $600? They're using the games that *they* produce to make up for the loss.

It doesn't matter whether it's over or under priced relative to the cost of its components. What matters is that $600 is an unprecendented amount of money to spend on a mainstream gaming console.
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post #910 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by marzetta7
Plextor Ships First Blu-ray Drive

Is there a listed price anywhere? I couldn't find one.

Quote:
icfireball
I do still think HD-DVD is a more marketable name and logo.

I'm not so sure. I think people will get confused. Old/stupid people might think they can play HD-DVD in a DVD drive but fewer will think you can play a Blu-Ray disc in a DVD player.

I think both logos look pretty bad but I prefer Blu-Ray:

post #911 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by vinea
The thinking is probably that the games cost more to make this generation than the last given the relatively high bar set for production values and new development environment. So devs will be charging more just to break even.

This is a little off topic, but the relative successes and failures amoung this new generation of video games and consoles will really shed a lot of light on the economics of the video game market.

Moreover, if Nintendo can provide a compelling, inexpensive product in the Wii, it will have a great chance to capture more market than just the "casual" gamers that it is targeting.
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post #912 of 2106
this bluray drive that will come with the ps3 will most likely than not be one of those really shitty bargain players just like the ps2 dvd player was.


who the hell still uses the ps2 for a dvd player? even when it came out, a year later, no one was using the damn thing.. it was horrible.
post #913 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by Elixir
this bluray drive that will come with the ps3 will most likely than not be one of those really shitty bargain players just like the ps2 dvd player was.


who the hell still uses the ps2 for a dvd player? even when it came out, a year later, no one was using the damn thing.. it was horrible.

as i have commented in response to this before...

I USED AND STILL USE the PS2 as a DVD player, im sure im not alone
post #914 of 2106
Saw both units (and discs) at Best Buy the other day. The blu-ray discs are in blue plastic cases and the HD-DVD are in red.

As we all know from Tron and our political system, Blue=good and Red=bad.

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post #915 of 2106
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
Toshiba Exec says he expect HD DVD enabled Xbox 360 this year

The Thlot Plickens. The PS3 is going to have a bigger battle to contend with. I'd consider scuttling my plans for a PS3 in lieu of an HD DVD Xbox 360.

That will make present Xbox360 owners real happy--having them pay for a entire new console. If they, have a internal replaceable unit that users can install on current consoles, that would be one thing, but even at this, your looking at potential voided warranties, accidental damages, frequent returns, etc. as you have users cracking open their 360 to replace their drive. I'm going to go out on a limb and say I don't think this would be a great strategy at all--cost wise or consumer-friendly wise.

Furthermore, if it is an internal or external add-on, they better be making it capable of more than 720P output from what is expected. Also, as we've discussed add-nauseum is the fact of how external add-on drives historically fail, and I don't see this drive changing that history. Also, they better find a way too sell it less than the expected and at one time temporarily posted price of $199 which would put them at the same exact price of a built-in Blu-ray drive PS3.

Also, from what I understand is that the add-on for the Xbox 360 as it is currently, will only be capable of playing HD DVD movies and not capable of playing games on the HD DVD format. Still want to scuttle your plans for a PS3? Probably, as we all know you are a fanboy of everything Microsoft, from their backed HD format of HD DVD, to their interactive layer in iHD, to their encoding software in VC-1, and now of course to their gaming console in the 360 despite having a standard DVD drive, and only 1080i output.

So, honestly, scuttle away as I wouldn't expect anything less from a Microsoftie, but your considerations are just that, yours. Let others consider the facts, and practice their free agency upon those facts as to what they'll purchase, and not on fear mongering from you.
post #916 of 2106
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Trendannoyer
as i have commented in response to this before...

I USED AND STILL USE the PS2 as a DVD player, im sure im not alone

You're not, and won't be in the future with the PS3!
post #917 of 2106
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
Yeah I know it's kind of hard to compete with stuff like this.

http://corp.ign.com/

Do you ever get the feeling that "your" best interests aren't being accounted for as a consumer. Do you ever get that sneaky suspicion that some articles have some underlying motives?

Marzetta may like posting info from "web rags" but I haven't trusted the media in years.

Interesting "web rags" comment, when just a few weeks ago, a lot of you Microsoftie supporters were posting links from IGN about how the PS3 lost at this years E3 convention. Not to mention all the links from IGN on how well the Wii performed. First a dig on CNet, now on IGN, which is one of the best if not the best game reporting website. So, it begs the question, where do you get your information from?

If you don't trust or somewhat trust some sort of media outlet, where are you getting your information? Are these the inside industry sources that we keep hearing about from you?...Who are they, do tell, because we are still all enthralled about how China is going to save the day for HD DVD still and how certain Hollywood studios are going to defect to HD DVD, etc. Are you getting your information from the Microsoft PR machine a la Amir? Or what? From people over at AVS claiming 50,000 Toshiba units have sold?

Really, I'm not looking for answers to the above questions, but rather just wanted to exploit how transparent your post really was in terms of underlying motives and your sneaky suspicions.
post #918 of 2106
Marzetta7 sorry man I don't think you have the leverage to exploit anything. I've never quoted IGN because I'm not a gamer and don't frequent their site nor do I particularly trust their info. It was recent that it was brought to my attention that they are owned by fox.

Cnet IMO has a horrible history for accuracy. Sure a broken clock is right twice a day so they'll get some things right but I prefer to use other sources if possible.

Amir is a good source you do have to understand that he's coming from the Microsoft pov but that doesn't negate some of the good info on VC-1 that he provides. Ben Waggoner is another guy who recently joined Microsoft but has a good rep for good info.

Alex Millians is another good source. Like any good piece of information you have to see if it really applies. If it makes sense and is plausible. I simply try to get as much info as I can and make, what I consider to be, a rational decision.

I've said that 50GB DL discs are hard to make and would be costly and the discs that have been released and are scheduled to be released on BD are all 25GB SL including Ultraviolet which was pegged to be DL50 by some sources. Clearly there's a yield issue here corroborating the predictions by the very people you chide.

China will be a factor for both platforms. No one can beat their low cost labor. I don't think I've been sneaky at all. I've followed both platforms closely. I've comitted myself to owning both but when I looked at what I needed in a movie distribution format I realized that HD DVD meets this need and has the potential of being the cheaper format. That is why I champion them because they are a solution that most adroitly handles the problems of today.

Blu-Ray "is" technically superior but my point has always been that technical superiority has been in areas that are not going translate into a better picture. I'm interested in keeping cost low for consumer and producers so I'm looking at both sides of the coin. I have friends that are in to filmmaking and costs of pressing your creation onto HD DVD or Blu-Ray is of keen interest to me. As a indie producer you won't get any subsidy whatsoever the platform's "true" cost is important.
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post #919 of 2106
if there is one thing i hate is peoplel constantly using blogs, and sites on the net for sources of information.

seriously , shut up !

the first thing you think of when you hear s"ps3 will cost 600 dollars, games might be 60-70 dollars" is wow thats expensive.


you dont need to read a stupid site to know this, and start to question the potential of a failure at this price point.

enough with backing up dumb arguments with even more dumb speculative arguments from sources that copy other sources, that copy other sources.
post #920 of 2106
Quote:
Originally posted by Marvin
Is there a listed price anywhere? I couldn't find one.



I'm not so sure. I think people will get confused. Old/stupid people might think they can play HD-DVD in a DVD drive but fewer will think you can play a Blu-Ray disc in a DVD player.

I think both logos look pretty bad but I prefer Blu-Ray:


The entertainment and electronics market has already invested millions of dollars into the promotion of "HD".

The HD lable with a dvd would certainly make sense to the consumer. The logo looks more integrated and similar (although not confusingly so) to the current dvd logo. The Blu ray technology is in my opinion much better than the HD DVD technology however.
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