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My informal MacBook iTunes rip speed tests - Page 3

post #81 of 122
1/17/06 at 3:02pm
Hi.
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post #82 of 122
1/17/06 at 6:53pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by percy
I just converted a 1-hour MP3 file to AAC and it was running at a constant 18.0x on my iMac 17" Duo Core (only 512MB RAM). This was happening while I was compiling some stuff, and with a few other apps open too.

Percy, get some more RAM! I wouldn't even let my grandma use 512 MB nowadays! The horrors!
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post #83 of 122
1/17/06 at 7:02pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Xool
Percy, get some more RAM! I wouldn't even let my grandma use 512 MB nowadays! The horrors!

I'm trying to get a 1GB stick of RAM. I didn't find out until *AFTER* I bought it that the new iMac used SO-DIMM. That was a big surprise to me, almost made me want to return the iMac... I've called everyplace in town and looked everywhere onlinecan't find any 1GB PC2-5300 SO-DIMM in stock or at a reasonable price.

-Percy

PS: And no I'm *NOT* forking over $300 USD for the RAM on Apple's website... I can get it for less than half that if I just wait a week or two...
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post #84 of 122
1/17/06 at 8:41pm
Xool, front page of macrumors!

Solid work
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post #85 of 122
1/17/06 at 11:16pm
I'm wondering if someone is willing to really push an audio app like Garageband and see how far they can get. And even more importantly, how the fan sounds. I really get tired of my revision A iMac - its so bad in my studio that in order to work I need to put on headphones!

Also, anyone willing to download the demo to Native Instruments' Guitar Rig 2 and just see if it runs? (I know they mention they are having a Universal binary of this in the 2nd quarter, however I'm curious what would happen). Give details if the time allows!
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post #86 of 122
1/18/06 at 12:17am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Flounder
Xool, front page of macrumors!

Solid work

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post #87 of 122
1/18/06 at 3:51am
Quote:
Originally posted by ouroboros
I'm wondering if someone is willing to really push an audio app like Garageband and see how far they can get. And even more importantly, how the fan sounds. I really get tired of my revision A iMac - its so bad in my studio that in order to work I need to put on headphones!

Also, anyone willing to download the demo to Native Instruments' Guitar Rig 2 and just see if it runs? (I know they mention they are having a Universal binary of this in the 2nd quarter, however I'm curious what would happen). Give details if the time allows!

You should get your iMac checked out (although not by Apple store people). I had the same problem of super loud fans + spontaneous sleep/shutdown problems. A new mobo & power supply has cured all my ills. My iMac is actually quite quiet now, although I wouldn't say whisper quiet it isn't the wind tunnel hair dryer that it was a few months ago.
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post #88 of 122
1/18/06 at 6:20am
Quote:
Originally posted by ouroboros
I'm wondering if someone is willing to really push an audio app like Garageband and see how far they can get. And even more importantly, how the fan sounds. I really get tired of my revision A iMac - its so bad in my studio that in order to work I need to put on headphones!

Also, anyone willing to download the demo to Native Instruments' Guitar Rig 2 and just see if it runs? (I know they mention they are having a Universal binary of this in the 2nd quarter, however I'm curious what would happen). Give details if the time allows!

I just downloaded the NI Guitar Rig 2 demo, it runs. I don't have any fancy inputs to test anything with, but it does run. At idling with the default rig, the CPU usage was hovering around 25% (according to Guitar Rig anyway, didn't bother checking Activity Monitor).

Haven't played with GarageBand much, and all I have is the demos it comes with. If there's some demos out there that would do more to test the app, give me some links and I can try them out. But I still only have 512MB RAM... \
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post #89 of 122
1/18/06 at 11:47am
Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You !!!! Guitar Rig 2, even under emulation is only at 25%???? Great!!! How's the fan through all of this??! I can't believe this computer. My hand is hovering over the "buy now" button...
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post #90 of 122
1/18/06 at 11:51am
Quote:
Originally posted by PBG4 Dude
You should get your iMac checked out (although not by Apple store people). I had the same problem of super loud fans + spontaneous sleep/shutdown problems. A new mobo & power supply has cured all my ills. My iMac is actually quite quiet now, although I wouldn't say whisper quiet it isn't the wind tunnel hair dryer that it was a few months ago.


You know I took it down to an Apple Store, ran it with a temperature/fan rpm monitor in front of two apple genius guys, and they both said, "that's normal for a revision A iMac...." They reset the nvram, pram, all sorts of stuff, and the damn thing ramps up when I simply surf through a few webpages. What's weird is that I can't remember if this thing actually was like this in the beginning when I got it or not.
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post #91 of 122
1/18/06 at 12:16pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by ouroboros
You know I took it down to an Apple Store, ran it with a temperature/fan rpm monitor in front of two apple genius guys, and they both said, "that's normal for a revision A iMac...." They reset the nvram, pram, all sorts of stuff, and the damn thing ramps up when I simply surf through a few webpages. What's weird is that I can't remember if this thing actually was like this in the beginning when I got it or not.

What happens if you go to the Energy Saver System Preference pane and under Options set Processor Performance to Highest? I do this on my G5 tower and the fans rarely come on, but if you leave it at Automatic the fans will rev needlessly.

If this fixes your fan revving issue I can go in to why this fix works. Although if others are curious I'll post the reason anyhow.
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post #92 of 122
1/18/06 at 12:27pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Xool
What happens if you go to the Energy Saver System Preference pane and under Options set Processor Performance to Highest? I do this on my G5 tower and the fans rarely come on, but if you leave it at Automatic the fans will rev needlessly.

If this fixes your fan revving issue I can go in to why this fix works. Although if others are curious I'll post the reason anyhow.


yeah i've tried all of that. highest setting pretty much is the same in my opinion.

at this rate i'm getting one. those of you wanting one might want to go over to macintouch.com and notice that amazon has a $125 rebate on the new intel imacs....

but xool, i'm very interested in the fan issue, so explain away if you'd like.
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post #93 of 122
1/18/06 at 1:02pm
Quote:
Originally posted by ouroboros
You know I took it down to an Apple Store, ran it with a temperature/fan rpm monitor in front of two apple genius guys, and they both said, "that's normal for a revision A iMac...." They reset the nvram, pram, all sorts of stuff, and the damn thing ramps up when I simply surf through a few webpages. What's weird is that I can't remember if this thing actually was like this in the beginning when I got it or not.

Yea, that's why I said not by Apple store people. The Apple store replaced my mobo, but that only upgraded me from "spontaneous sleep" to "spontaneous shutdown with loud POPping noise". They wouldn't let me bring it in for another repair, and said it must be the quality of my electrical service at home. Mind you I live in a brick building built in 1981 so the electricity is solid.

I had to call AppleCare and spend time on the phone with them until they agreed with me that repairs still needed to be made. They also agreed the repair should be done on site since I'd already brought my iMac to their store twice and they hadn't fixed my problem. Anyway, the non Apple tech guy ordered and replaced my power supply and my fan noise (as well as shutdown) problem went away.

At this point if anything else goes weird with my iMac I'll either request onsite service or go somewhere other then the Apple store for repairs. I'm truly amazed that an actual official Apple store was able to get away without correctly repairing my iMac. I haven't been back to that store since.
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post #94 of 122
1/18/06 at 1:40pm
Quote:
Originally posted by ouroboros
Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You !!!! Guitar Rig 2, even under emulation is only at 25%???? Great!!! How's the fan through all of this??! I can't believe this computer. My hand is hovering over the "buy now" button...

I haven't heard a peep out of the iMac since I bought it, other than the speakers. Granted my office is really close to the HVAC units so there's lots of noise up above, but I can hear my PB17" wind up the old fan long before I hear the iMac's cooling...

-Percy
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post #95 of 122
1/18/06 at 10:09pm
iTunes [has] NOT been optimized for intel yet, It's all over the Apple Developer discussion threads.

ABSOLUTELY do not use iTunes ripping to show speeds.

Somebody posted some tests using real native intel mp3 ripping and it was nearly 3times faster than a dual 2.5ghz g5.

The intel chips are really optimized heavily for media
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post #96 of 122
1/19/06 at 12:08am
Quote:
Originally posted by webmail
iTunes [has] NOT been optimized for intel yet, It's all over the Apple Developer discussion threads.

ABSOLUTELY do not use iTunes ripping to show speeds.

So, are you implying that these results, showing that an iMac Core Duo at 1.83 GHz is the equivalent of a Power Mac G5 at 2.5 GHz in CD ripping through iTunes, are still on the un-optimised side?

Quote:

Somebody posted some tests using real native intel mp3 ripping and it was nearly 3times faster than a dual 2.5ghz g5.

Some link here would be most welcome.
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post #97 of 122
1/19/06 at 5:43pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by webmail
iTunes [has] NOT been optimized for intel yet, It's all over the Apple Developer discussion threads.

ABSOLUTELY do not use iTunes ripping to show speeds.

Somebody posted some tests using real native intel mp3 ripping and it was nearly 3times faster than a dual 2.5ghz g5.

The intel chips are really optimized heavily for media

Umm, I don't know about you, but I rip my CDs using iTunes and if I got a new intel Mac I'd still rip my CDs using iTunes. QuickTime may not be fully optimized for the Core Duo but that doesn't mean that rip speed results are not useful. They may not be the best at benchmarking the machines ultimate potential but it does indicate the machine's real-world performance today.
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post #98 of 122
1/20/06 at 5:09am
Ok, this is a little off-topic. I see all these articles around talking about benchmarking and stuff and a lot of them say "none of these benchmarks are anywhere near the performance promised by Steve Jobs" or things like that. They're whining that things aren't all 2-3x faster on the iMac. Correct me if I'm wrong, but when I watched the keynote (it has been a week since I saw it, so my memory might be blurry), I seem to remember hearing Jobs say "Of course, we're just talking about the processor being twice as fast. There are other factors such as the Hard Drives, RAM, Graphics, etc. that will affect the overall performance." Is it just me, or did he actually say something along those lines? Then why is everyone complaining that Apple is all of a sudden pushing "false" advertisements by claiming a 2-3x performance. The CPU is 2-3x faster. But the Hard Drive isn't. The RAM might be a little faster, but not 2-3x faster.

Anyway, just a thought.
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post #99 of 122
1/20/06 at 5:15am
Quote:
Originally posted by percy
Ok, this is a little off-topic. I see all these articles around talking about benchmarking and stuff and a lot of them say "none of these benchmarks are anywhere near the performance promised by Steve Jobs" or things like that. They're whining that things aren't all 2-3x faster on the iMac. Correct me if I'm wrong, but when I watched the keynote (it has been a week since I saw it, so my memory might be blurry), I seem to remember hearing Jobs say "Of course, we're just talking about the processor being twice as fast. There are other factors such as the Hard Drives, RAM, Graphics, etc. that will affect the overall performance." Is it just me, or did he actually say something along those lines?

No, it isn't just you. He did say almost exactly that. People just seem to like taking things out of context. It happens all the time. Nowhere has apple claimed that the iMac is 2 - 3 times faster in everything.
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post #100 of 122
1/20/06 at 5:18am
  • Anders
  • Feared and Biased Moderator
Quote:
Originally posted by percy
Ok, this is a little off-topic. I see all these articles around talking about benchmarking and stuff and a lot of them say "none of these benchmarks are anywhere near the performance promised by Steve Jobs" or things like that. They're whining that things aren't all 2-3x faster on the iMac. Correct me if I'm wrong, but when I watched the keynote (it has been a week since I saw it, so my memory might be blurry), I seem to remember hearing Jobs say "Of course, we're just talking about the processor being twice as fast. There are other factors such as the Hard Drives, RAM, Graphics, etc. that will affect the overall performance." Is it just me, or did he actually say something along those lines? Then why is everyone complaining that Apple is all of a sudden pushing "false" advertisements by claiming a 2-3x performance. The CPU is 2-3x faster. But the Hard Drive isn't. The RAM might be a little faster, but not 2-3x faster.

Anyway, just a thought.

You are right. But:





And there is no reservations there...
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post #101 of 122
1/20/06 at 5:22am
  • Anders
  • Feared and Biased Moderator
Quote:
Originally posted by Mr. H
No, it isn't just you. He did say almost exactly that. People just seem to like taking things out of context. It happens all the time. Nowhere has apple claimed that the iMac is 2 - 3 times faster in everything.

Nowhere except at the homepage for the iMac:

http://www.apple.com/imac/

There are no "up to" or any "but"s there. 2-3 times faster i the claim.
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post #102 of 122
1/20/06 at 6:21am
Quote:
Originally posted by Xool
True, "ripping" generally implies two aspects: reading data from an audio CD and encoding it.

well NO not really, Ripping is extracting the audio from disk to hard drive. it does NOT also mean Encoding...... completely different process and completely unscientific for testing CPU!! Ripping is a PC term, on the Mac we always used the term 'Extract'...ever heard of Toast Audio Extractor...yeah Mac ONLY thanks from back in the day.
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post #103 of 122
1/20/06 at 6:43am
  • Anders
  • Feared and Biased Moderator
Quote:
Originally posted by Targon
well NO not really, Ripping is extracting the audio from disk to hard drive. it does NOT also mean Encoding......
[....]
Ripping is a PC term, on the Mac we always used the term 'Extract'...ever heard of Toast Audio Extractor...yeah Mac ONLY thanks from back in the day.

You are wrong on both accounts. When iTunes got the abiliy to burn CDs and Apple put CD burners in their iMacs a long time ago they did that with an ad called "Rip, Mix, Burn" and Jobs explained how it worked in a stevenote. He did not take the encoding as a seperate process. Of course iTunes encode at the same time as it rips but Xool was talking about how the word is used by the layman.

And Apple using "Rip" in their commercial shows it was/is used by Apple as well. Any other word that is used is "Import" that is used in iTunes.

Actually the "Rip, Mix, Burn" commercial may have been a large factor in the disagreement between Eisner and Jobs AND for the iTMS. Eisner accused Apple for endorsing piracy and made Apple go into that debate and may have sparked the idea to have their own music store.

AFAIR did Jobs reuse Rip, Mix and Burn when he sold the iTunes music store and the iPod to somethng like "Buy, shuffle, transfer" or something. Anyone remember the exact slogan?
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post #104 of 122
1/20/06 at 3:12pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Anders
You are wrong on both accounts. When iTunes got the abiliy to burn CDs and Apple put CD burners in their iMacs a long time ago they did that with an ad called "Rip, Mix, Burn" and Jobs explained how it worked in a stevenote. He did not take the encoding as a seperate process. Of course iTunes encode at the same time as it rips but Xool was talking about how the word is used by the layman.

And Apple using "Rip" in their commercial shows it was/is used by Apple as well. Any other word that is used is "Import" that is used in iTunes.

Actually the "Rip, Mix, Burn" commercial may have been a large factor in the disagreement between Eisner and Jobs AND for the iTMS. Eisner accused Apple for endorsing piracy and made Apple go into that debate and may have sparked the idea to have their own music store.

AFAIR did Jobs reuse Rip, Mix and Burn when he sold the iTunes music store and the iPod to somethng like "Buy, shuffle, transfer" or something. Anyone remember the exact slogan?

Dude new skoolers like you should learn to take what Jobs says as hype and marketing jizz. We has been doing this sh!t way before Steve Jobs and his iTunes even existed. RIP MIX BURN is purely marketing hyperbole to explain it in, as u say layman's terms for ppl like the everyday Mac user or newbies or PC switchers.

Again for those who can't listen ...the process the PC geeks called ripping is technically known as Digital Audio Extraction. We all (in audio circles)used this term back when PC's were not as commonly used for audio. I mean like this was back in the System 7x days some 10 years go. The term use of the term Ripping is only a recent trend. Obviously Steve's oversimplification has confused a few ppl about the process.
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post #105 of 122
1/20/06 at 3:26pm
Um, the fact you didn't use the same music files in each test kind of renders the results useless!! The speed of ripping or re-encoding can vary widely depending on the type of music and the type of CD used (if any). I take it you don't remember your high-school science where they teach that in order to test an hypothesis you should remove (as much as possible) all other variables that can affect results!! :-)
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post #106 of 122
1/20/06 at 3:40pm
  • Anders
  • Feared and Biased Moderator
I can´t tell if you are joking or not (the use of 13375p34k could both symbolise a feeling of superiority or a parody of the same) so the following is written under the presumption you are serious:

Xool used ripping as the layman term, not as the exact technical term. For the layman ripping IS both extracting and encoding. Any search for "extract", "encode" and "rip" here would clearly show that. So he is not wrong.

Besides its pretty hard to claim that "on the Mac we always used the term 'Extract'." when the CEO of Apple in his public addresses use rip. Unless you with "we" and the use of paste tense means what language some kind of "hardcore" inner group used back in 1995. The last five years it has been "rip" (which all the other replies here also indicates)
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post #107 of 122
1/20/06 at 4:15pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Anders
I can´t tell if you are joking or not (the use of 13375p34k could both symbolise a feeling of superiority or a parody of the same) so the following is written under the presumption you are serious:

Xool used ripping as the layman term, not as the exact technical term. For the layman ripping IS both extracting and encoding. Any search for "extract", "encode" and "rip" here would clearly show that. So he is not wrong.

Besides its pretty hard to claim that "on the Mac we always used the term 'Extract'." when the CEO of Apple in his public addresses use rip. Unless you with "we" and the use of paste tense means what language some kind of "hardcore" inner group used back in 1995. The last five years it has been "rip" (which all the other replies here also indicates)

And here we have a CEO who is constantly targeting the consumer market with a history of simplifying such concepts. I mentioned it was marketing, and we should all know by now how marketing tends to sugar coat or blatantly ignore certain issues. Steve specializes in marketing to consumers, he ain't no technical authority and as such what he may say is not always what one should believe.
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post #108 of 122
1/20/06 at 5:01pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by s.metcalf
Um, the fact you didn't use the same music files in each test kind of renders the results useless!! The speed of ripping or re-encoding can vary widely depending on the type of music and the type of CD used (if any). I take it you don't remember your high-school science where they teach that in order to test an hypothesis you should remove (as much as possible) all other variables that can affect results!! :-)

Actually the same music file was used in all the tests. As noted in the final report the 16 minute file is the track "It's A Fast Driving Rave Up With The Dandy Warhols" by, you guessed it, The Dandy Warhols.

The preliminary tests didn't include standardized methods which is why I performed a second set of tests for my final report.
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post #109 of 122
1/24/06 at 12:06am
Thread Starter 
So my thread got 41,000+ views.

Do I win a cookie or something?
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post #110 of 122
3/1/06 at 3:32pm
is itunes universal yet? i'm getting really slow rip times.


i'm transfering music from cds and i get crazy sppeds anywhere from 5.6x-18x



wtf is going on?
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post #111 of 122
3/1/06 at 4:57pm
iTunes is universal. The whole iLife suite is.
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post #112 of 122
3/1/06 at 5:47pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Elixir
is itunes universal yet? i'm getting really slow rip times.


i'm transfering music from cds and i get crazy sppeds anywhere from 5.6x-18x

wtf is going on?

I performed my tests using universal apps but running off data that was stored on the Hard Disk.

Your rip speeds will also be affected by your CD drive speed as well as the location of the data on the disc. The data at the center of a CD does not spin as fast as the data on the outside edge and data is written from the center out, unlike a record which plays from the outside in. This means that when you rip a CD the first track should rip the slowest and the last track the fastest. However, if you copy the raw audio from the CD to your HD and then encode the file off the HD, the primary limiting factor should be your CPU.
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post #113 of 122
3/1/06 at 6:11pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Xool
Your rip speeds will also be affected by your CD drive speed as well as the location of the data on the disc. The data at the center of a CD does not spin as fast as the data on the outside edge and data is written from the center out, unlike a record which plays from the outside in. This means that when you rip a CD the first track should rip the slowest and the last track the fastest.

To clarify (? on second thoughts, to put it another way):

LPs were designed to have constant rotational speed. CDs were designed to have a constant "linear" speed when played back (as the pit lengths that represent the data are the same size wherever they are on the disc). This means that a CD player has to spin a CD faster when it is playing back a track at the centre of the disc compared to the outside of the disc.

A computer CD drive just spins the disc at a constant rotational speed. This means the the data comes off the disc faster the further from the centre that you get.
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post #114 of 122
3/1/06 at 7:30pm
well... i'm not impressed with this ripping speed at all.

sometimes its hitting 18x other times it just sits at 4 and 5x.

i'm wondering if theres a problem.
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post #115 of 122
3/2/06 at 3:53am
Quote:
Originally posted by Elixir
well... i'm not impressed with this ripping speed at all.

sometimes its hitting 18x other times it just sits at 4 and 5x.

i'm wondering if theres a problem.

Hello???

Xool and I have both offered reasons for variable rip-speeds.
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post #116 of 122
3/2/06 at 5:11am
It is all in the codecs, the current codecs may run on intel, but I would think that as of yet, they are still PPC optimized, tweaked for best proformance on the vector engine, not MMX/SSE3, I think you should run the test again when the pro apps ship for intel, as a quicktime update will likly accompany them.
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post #117 of 122
3/2/06 at 5:18am
Quote:
Originally posted by a_greer
It is all in the codecs, the current codecs may run on intel, but I would think that as of yet, they are still PPC optimized, tweaked for best proformance on the vector engine, not MMX/SSE3, I think you should run the test again when the pro apps ship for intel, as a quicktime update will likly accompany them.

Why are people wilfully ignoring the provided explanation for variable rip speed from CD? It's got nothing to do with codec optimisations. Xool's tests performed by converting songs stored on HD prove that.
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post #118 of 122
3/2/06 at 9:47am
another data point: my MBP 1.83/7200 converts to 192k AAC at 22-23x, plays 1080p without error at 24 fps (haven't tried to play two at a time), haven't ripped any CDs yet
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post #119 of 122
3/2/06 at 10:13am
Quote:
Originally posted by Elixir
well... i'm not impressed with this ripping speed at all.

sometimes its hitting 18x other times it just sits at 4 and 5x.

i'm wondering if theres a problem.

Maybe a copy prtoected CD, or maybe it has scrathces?
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post #120 of 122
3/3/06 at 12:28pm
Thread Starter 
There's also an iTunes setting to do a super slow rip, handy for CDs in bad condition. Perhaps this is checked and causing the slow rip speeds?
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