or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Future Apple Hardware › Apple "Mac Pro" trademark filing surfaces
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Apple "Mac Pro" trademark filing surfaces - Page 2

post #41 of 58
Quote:
Originally posted by sunilraman
my call is MacBook replaces iBook, [snipperdesnipsnip]

i hope you're wrong, suni

as i previously mentioned just after the stevenote
alles sal reg kom
Reply
alles sal reg kom
Reply
post #42 of 58
Quote:
Originally posted by sunilraman
my call is MacBook replaces iBook, Macbook Pro, XServe (remains), iMac (remains), Mac Pro replaces PowerMac, Mac mini (remains)

sorry, MacServe sounds really bad.
what about XMac?

I don't know how this might affect names, but there is a company that advertises in the back of MacWorld called MAC-PRO Systems Software. The web site is:

www.mac-pro.com
post #43 of 58
Quote:
Originally posted by gar
i hope you're wrong, suni

as i previously mentioned just after the stevenote


Macbook mini and Macbook nano? Hmm.... Somehow to me, IMHO, that seems unlikely
post #44 of 58
Quote:
Originally posted by sunilraman
Macbook mini and Macbook nano? Hmm.... Somehow to me, IMHO, that seems unlikely

not "and"...
i said
"MacBook mini or
MacBook nano"
alles sal reg kom
Reply
alles sal reg kom
Reply
post #45 of 58
Quote:
Originally posted by gar
not "and"...
i said
"MacBook mini or
MacBook nano"

The problem with using either "mini" or "nano" with the MacBook brand is that very small/thin laptops are expensive. The Mac mini and iPod nano are the low end products in their lineups and having a Macbook mini or nano that sits above the regular MacBook would be confusing to consumers who associate those terms with entry level devices.

Now there will be a third laptop model and it will be super thin and sexy, but it will sit in the middle of the lineup at $1599 between the MacBook ($999) and the MacBook Pro ($1999):

Mac mini - iMac - Mac Pro

MacBook - MacBook thin - MacBook Pro
Attention Internet Users!

"it's" contraction of "it is"
"its" possessive form of the pronoun "it".

It's shameful how grammar on the Internet is losing its accuracy.
Reply
Attention Internet Users!

"it's" contraction of "it is"
"its" possessive form of the pronoun "it".

It's shameful how grammar on the Internet is losing its accuracy.
Reply
post #46 of 58
Quote:
Originally posted by Ensign Pulver
The problem with using either "mini" or "nano" with the MacBook brand is that very small/thin laptops are expensive. The Mac mini and iPod nano are the low end products in their lineups and having a Macbook mini or nano that sits above the regular MacBook would be confusing to consumers who associate those terms with entry level devices.

Now there will be a third laptop model and it will be super thin and sexy, but it will sit in the middle of the lineup at $1599 between the MacBook ($999) and the MacBook Pro ($1999):

Mac mini - iMac - Mac Pro

MacBook - MacBook thin - MacBook Pro

i was actually thinking of prices starting at $1,999
alles sal reg kom
Reply
alles sal reg kom
Reply
post #47 of 58
Quote:
Originally posted by gar
i was actually thinking of prices starting at $1,999

but that would make the Macbook mini or nano go right up against the Macbook Pro at $2,000+ \

right now the 12" iBook is actually not bad for $999 -- dedicated gpu, 512mb ram, combo drive, bluetooth, wifi, scrolling trackpad and sudden motion sensor
post #48 of 58
I'm gonna take a risky guess and say...

...in the range of...

...$899 to $1299.

post #49 of 58
Quote:
Originally posted by sunilraman
but that would make the Macbook mini or nano go right up against the Macbook Pro at $2,000+ \

right now the 12" iBook is actually not bad for $999 -- dedicated gpu, 512mb ram, combo drive, bluetooth, wifi, scrolling trackpad and sudden motion sensor

indeed, but it isn't a subnotebook.
IF we see a subnotebook it won't be cheape.

back on topic:
i'm very curious about how apple will handle the powermac to mac pro transition.
if they want to do it this year there will be no software (adobe cs etc.) and no real hardware advantages as far as i can see.
alles sal reg kom
Reply
alles sal reg kom
Reply
post #50 of 58
Quote:
Originally posted by gar
indeed, but it isn't a subnotebook.
IF we see a subnotebook it won't be cheape.

back on topic:
i'm very curious about how apple will handle the powermac to mac pro transition.
if they want to do it this year there will be no software (adobe cs etc.) and no real hardware advantages as far as i can see.

Now that is a very good point, on the subject of the transit from PPC PowerMac to intel Mac(powerful), that niggles away. They will need to keep a couple of G5s around for a time, until things are complete in the change.

If a subnotebook is going to cost 2000$, hmm, like sunilraman says, the current iBook begins to look more appealing. I wanted to get a newer, more powerful Apple notebook at a lower price range.
post #51 of 58
Originally posted by gar
indeed, but it isn't a subnotebook. IF we see a subnotebook it won't be cheaper.

back on topic:
i'm very curious about how apple will handle the powermac to mac pro transition.
if they want to do it this year there will be no software (adobe cs etc.) and no real hardware advantages as far as i can see.



okay, let's set aside the notebook and sub-notebook discussions for a while
...

yeah good points on mac pro and adobe|macromedia.

okay, here's the thing, any conroe mac pro line apple releases around the mid-to-end of 2006, should run Universal pro apps wicked fast. so we are talking final cut studio universal, logic pro universal (already announced) and so on... mainly apple pro apps that are set to be universal across the board by middle of 2006.

so if apple announces conroe mac pro computers, they will clearly show how they outperform the dual and quad powermacs at apple pro apps. why do i assume conroes will outperform the dual and quads at apple pro apps? 1. because if they didn't apple wont release them. 2. logic pro on intel demonstrated some impressive performance that the apple guy apparently said "would not be possible on a powermac".

adobe photoshop is the key. apple will have good access to photoshop universal builds. they will be benchmarking the hell out of it.

best case scenario:
once apple is happy, and adobe is ready to go, apple will trot out photoshop-on-intel conroe mac pros and then demonstrate how it whips the powermac duals and quads at "this filter set" , "that action set", etc, etc.

definite scenario:
by WWDC June 2006 virtually all apple apps, everything, pro and non-pro is Universal

likely scenario:
photoshop universal may hold up conroe mac pros but only to a certain point, since apple can tout "new and improved" rosetta + all Universal apple pro apps for the power users. so second half of 2006 iSteve is ready to pull the trigger to unleash the conroe mac pros, he might wait a little for adobe, but he won't be waiting too long. clearly with the intel transition iSteve wants to drive the developers and not wait for them. adobe|macromedia will have to play ball and deliver at least *some* universal apps in 2nd half of 2006, maybe later in the 2nd half of 2006...
post #52 of 58
Quote:
Originally posted by sunilraman
Originally posted by gar
indeed, but it isn't a subnotebook. IF we see a subnotebook it won't be cheaper.

back on topic:
i'm very curious about how apple will handle the powermac to mac pro transition.
if they want to do it this year there will be no software (adobe cs etc.) and no real hardware advantages as far as i can see.



okay, let's set aside the notebook and sub-notebook discussions for a while
...

yeah good points on mac pro and adobe|macromedia.

okay, here's the thing, any conroe mac pro line apple releases around the mid-to-end of 2006, should run Universal pro apps wicked fast. so we are talking final cut studio universal, logic pro universal (already announced) and so on... mainly apple pro apps that are set to be universal across the board by middle of 2006.

so if apple announces conroe mac pro computers, they will clearly show how they outperform the dual and quad powermacs at apple pro apps. why do i assume conroes will outperform the dual and quads at apple pro apps? 1. because if they didn't apple wont release them. 2. logic pro on intel demonstrated some impressive performance that the apple guy apparently said "would not be possible on a powermac".

adobe photoshop is the key. apple will have good access to photoshop universal builds. they will be benchmarking the hell out of it.

best case scenario:
once apple is happy, and adobe is ready to go, apple will trot out photoshop-on-intel conroe mac pros and then demonstrate how it whips the powermac duals and quads at "this filter set" , "that action set", etc, etc.

definite scenario:
by WWDC June 2006 virtually all apple apps, everything, pro and non-pro is Universal

likely scenario:
photoshop universal may hold up conroe mac pros but only to a certain point, since apple can tout "new and improved" rosetta + all Universal apple pro apps for the power users. so second half of 2006 iSteve is ready to pull the trigger to unleash the conroe mac pros, he might wait a little for adobe, but he won't be waiting too long. clearly with the intel transition iSteve wants to drive the developers and not wait for them. adobe|macromedia will have to play ball and deliver at least *some* universal apps in 2nd half of 2006, maybe later in the 2nd half of 2006...

I agree with your analysis.

And to add to it:

First of all, Apple simply can't hold their machines up. Why they are in this turbo mode, only they know. Perhaps they did intend to do this all along, or, they were able to convince Intel to speed development up after all (I think that that is what happened). There are good reasons to believe this.

As has been noted here and in other places, both Rosetta, and the OS will improve their speed over the coming months. Apple even acknowledged that iLife 6 wasn't particularly optimized for the Intel machines as yet, hence some of those low scores. Remember that only some of those programs are able to work with two cores. Most of them were speeded up by 10% or so anyway. The transfer slowdown we saw was obviously a bug. Hopefully it will be addressed in 10.4.5, if not soon afterwards.

The performance of the MacBook Pro should get a huge speedup over the old Powerbook, because of its slow nature. A good test of that was done recently on Rob Galbraiths site, using an Intel iMac to sub for the laptop, against the Powerbook. I posted this before.

Here:

http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/con...id=7-7891-8185

Nothing is really known about Conroe, at this time, other than some general performance expectations. We should see some more concrete information in March, sometime. A lot of the performance will depend on how Apple exploits the technologies around it. Will Apple stick with DDR2 667? I was disappointed that they used DDR 2 533 for the Quad. There is little known advantage over DDR 400 (other than marketing). 667 does give a speed advantage, so I was pleasantly surprised to see that they are using that both in the iMac AND in the MacBook Pro.

But, will Apple go to DDR 2 800 this year, or even 1000? Both are out, and both would give a noticeable speed boost. Will they go to dual 16 channel slots for Crossfire or SLI? More than three or four slots, counting the one that MUST be used for video? Will they upgrade their SATA to SATA 2, to 300 from 150? More drives? Two, or more, external bays again?

Will they FINALLY give us a real high end gaming card, and not a pretend one, like the 7800XT, instead of the GTor better? How about HDMI output? That will be needed very shortly. How about on the monitors as well? What about their new connector standard? Will we see that?

These, and other issues, will drive the sales of these machines.

If Leopard does come out this year, and is a significant, er, leap, forward, that will help as well. When will we see that? Will it be out the same time as the new machines? What about the 3264 bit transition? It isn't as easy on x86 as on PPC. Where will that be?

Photoshop, and some other programs are only a part of what is going on here.

I know a number of pros and businesses (that I still keep in touch with), who have told me that if those new machines can keep within a reasonable range of performance of the older machines (on Rosetta), and if the hi performance programs they need are only a quarter away, they will buy the new machines as they need new equipment. Otherwise, it's not happening.
post #53 of 58
Here's an article from the infamous "theInquirer", about the Merom chips.

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=29514

EDIT: added Conro an Woodcrest info.

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=29504

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=29510
post #54 of 58
Originally posted by melgross
........
http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/con...id=7-7891-8185
........



hello again ... that's actually some informative benchmarking, although i would have liked the powerpc dualcore and quadcore results up against the intel core duo results.

so the strategy with the intel transition at this stage looks like this: for a particular computer model, if there is enough overlap, push out the intel mac and deprecate the powerpc mac.

overlap here is defined by "rosetta apps a little slower but intel native apps significantly faster".

next up on the chopping block would seem to be the iBook and mac mini where this overlap will also occur, only this time the intel core solo will be used.

2nd half of 2006 is where it gets interesting as we've all gone over, with conroe. when this overlap as i have defined occurs then apple will deprecate the powermacs and push out the intel mac pros.

so sometime in 2nd half 2006 we can look at conroe dualcore and g5 dualcore -- is there an overlap? that is,

if (rosetta slightly slower than powerpc native) AND
...(intel native definitely faster than powerpc native at some pro apps)
then (push out conroe dualcore mac pros) AND
.....(deprecate powermac g5 dualcore)

so looks like apple has its hands full:
1. continual improvement of rosetta with the powermac and xserve transitions the next key milestone
2. aggressive encouragement of developers to go xcode and release universal binaries
3. work out (as in get the full details from intel) what conroes are coming out when and which to use

ah, but you say, what about the quadcore g5? i haven't forgotten that. in 2nd half 2006, i think either apple's replacement will be a dual-dualcore conroe*, or they will continue to sell the quadcore g5 alongside dualcore conroes. the latter option gives apple more breathing space overall and the choices might be attractive to pro customers through the 2nd half of 2006.

heh. not sure why i've written so much about this analysis but someday it will make sense


*it seems that there is no quadcore conroe, a cpu with 4 cores is only expected early-mid 2007 "kentsfield"
http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/12/...red/page4.html
post #55 of 58
Quote:
Originally posted by sunilraman
Originally posted by melgross
........
http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/con...id=7-7891-8185
........



hello again ... that's actually some informative benchmarking, although i would have liked the powerpc dualcore and quadcore results up against the intel core duo results.

so the strategy with the intel transition at this stage looks like this: for a particular computer model, if there is enough overlap, push out the intel mac and deprecate the powerpc mac.

overlap here is defined by "rosetta apps a little slower but intel native apps significantly faster".

next up on the chopping block would seem to be the iBook and mac mini where this overlap will also occur, only this time the intel core solo will be used.

2nd half of 2006 is where it gets interesting as we've all gone over, with conroe. when this overlap as i have defined occurs then apple will deprecate the powermacs and push out the intel mac pros.

so sometime in 2nd half 2006 we can look at conroe dualcore and g5 dualcore -- is there an overlap? that is,

if (rosetta slightly slower than powerpc native) AND
...(intel native definitely faster than powerpc native at some pro apps)
then (push out conroe dualcore mac pros) AND
.....(deprecate powermac g5 dualcore)

so looks like apple has its hands full:
1. continual improvement of rosetta with the powermac and xserve transitions the next key milestone
2. aggressive encouragement of developers to go xcode and release universal binaries
3. work out (as in get the full details from intel) what conroes are coming out when and which to use

ah, but you say, what about the quadcore g5? i haven't forgotten that. in 2nd half 2006, i think either apple's replacement will be a dual-dualcore conroe*, or they will continue to sell the quadcore g5 alongside dualcore conroes. the latter option gives apple more breathing space overall and the choices might be attractive to pro customers through the 2nd half of 2006.

heh. not sure why i've written so much about this analysis but someday it will make sense


*it seems that there is no quadcore conroe, a cpu with 4 cores is only expected early-mid 2007 "kentsfield"
http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/12/...red/page4.html

A lot of this also depends on how well the PPC machines continue to sell. Apple hasn't sold many PM's last year. I wonder what the sales are this quarter?

Of course, we are all assuming that Apple will use Conroe in the new PM's. That might not be so. They just might use Woodcrest, if they are out soon enough, the price fits within their envelope, and the performance is significantly better.

After all, the PM is competing against low end workstation Xeons now, as well as Opterons. A dual core 4MB cache 3GHz Woodcrest with that 1,333GHz frontside bus sounds awfully good to me!!! Two sound even better!
post #56 of 58
Aw heck, I'll just call it a TowerMac unless they redesign it to not look like a tower.

DAMN YOU, IVE!
post #57 of 58
Here's your TowerMac

post #58 of 58
Hideous, I know. I vote as Worst Mockup Ever on AppleInslider.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Future Apple Hardware
AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Future Apple Hardware › Apple "Mac Pro" trademark filing surfaces