Re the Biblical verse given above: DMZ
argument with a verse from scripture.
He is essentially saying: 'what you say may be true but it is only true of some
Christians and NOT of Christianity in essence. And here is a verse to prove it.....'.
Whilst I agree with DMZ
it is very curious that this is all that Muslims have been saying about Islam. In fact it is exactly the same. And here is a verse too:
O Mankind, We created you from a single pair of a male and a female and made you into nations and tribes, that you may know each other not that you may despise each other. Verily the most honored of you in the sight of God is he who is the most righteous of you.
But verses are for believers. Imo they cannot be used as evidence to be presented to people assessing a religion from outside. That is what actions are for.
Originally posted by Mitlov
You didn't see entire Christian countries mobilizing to make war on the USA and kill the Piss Christ artist. And you certainly don't see educated, liberal, philosophical individuals defending and justifying the actions of the few nutcases who threatened the Piss Christ artist.
No Islamic country has 'mobilized' because there is no Islamic country. Certain governments have taken a stance but governments are merely sects writ large in many cases. they are peopled by humans (mostly) and as such have all human failings.
It is ridiculous to say that you see 'educated, liberal, philosophical' Muslims justifying extremism. This would be an oxymoron. You don't see it - anymore than you see US anti-war protesters supporting the war.
Perhaps you are trying to say there are
no liberal intellectuals in Islam?
Anyway, what you do
see is people pointing to the barbarians that are present in the Islamic fold (as they are in any religion) and saying either something like you said above or else 'why is no-one speaking out?' when in fact people are doing so all the time - I've been doing it myself for years.
Re the Iranian cartoons. Disagree with them. This is not the way - to sink to the level of the thing that you object to. More importantly - it doesn't work.
Of course it should
if there really was free speech (which there isn't, or rather there is, but only for selected groups and only on approved topics) but as there isn't any, all this is going to prove is that "Iran is evil".
An exact same thing happened on the march in London a few days ago, - and Iran should really take heed of this - a protester thought he would show up the hypocrisy of the rationale for the cartoons which stated they were 'an experiment to see whether free speech was valued even when it caused extreme offence'.
He decided to do exactly the same: cause offence to test the limits of free speech, so he dressed as a suicide bomber and went to the march.
Was it viewed the same way? (picks himself up from the floor laughing hysterically). Err...no....
It was taken literally
and used as (yet more) evidence that 'Islam equals extremism'.
So anyway, this guy called a press conference - I shouldn't think the press there reported anything though, have read nothing yet though the BBC did feed the conference live and I heard it - he was very intelligent and articulate and outrightly condemned all terrorism and extremism (he is a Muslim obviously).
He apologized to the families of the victims of the London bombs and said he knew how much it must have hurt but he just wanted to continue the debate in the same way as the cartoons but from another angle.
Thoughts on this?