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Soooo. Anyone heard some news from Denmark lately? - Page 7

post #241 of 328
Funny story:

on Belgian television we have this talk show with different guests, and one of the segments is called 'on the couch' where someone is being interviewed for like 10 minutes while a cartoonist draws his picture which the guest receives at the end of the interview.
Anyweez, yesterday's guest showed up dressed like Mohammed, to force the cartoonist to draw a picture of him, and to show it on television. The reactions were pretty hilarious :-D
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post #242 of 328
Quote:
Originally posted by SpcMs
Funny story:

on Belgian television we have this talk show with different guests, and one of the segments is called 'on the couch' where someone is being interviewed for like 10 minutes while a cartoonist draws his picture which the guest receives at the end of the interview.
Anyweez, yesterday's guest showed up dressed like Mohammed, to force the cartoonist to draw a picture of him, and to show it on television. The reactions were pretty hilarious :-D

Yay, long live Freedom of Speech.
'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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post #243 of 328
This is going to burn itself out. It's not really that big of a deal and the agitators within the Muslim community won't be able to maintain sustained outrage among the mainstream.
They'll still be pissed but people need to move on with their lives.

Hopefully people will get tired of baiting them in turn and we can all move on to the next thing that will piss everyone off.
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post #244 of 328


Top left to right: "This one is racist" - "This one is anti-semitic".
Bottom: "These are Freedom of Speech".
'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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post #245 of 328
What are those things at the bottom supposed to be?
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post #246 of 328
What things? The translation?
'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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post #247 of 328
The cartoons that are ok according to Mr. Aryan.
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post #248 of 328
The cartoons we are all talking about. The Muhammad cartoons.
'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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post #249 of 328
I gathered that much, I'd just like to know about each one specifically.

This is my favorite part of the thread so far.

I think it's hilarious they had to remove a lot of the substance of the Muhammad cartoons. I only recognize the bomb turban.
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post #250 of 328
segovious thinks I'm out of my tree, but I thought this was great -- okay 'very good'.

http://www.townhall.com/opinion/colu...10/185942.html

with tidbits like:
Quote:
WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Q: Why aren't angry Muslims in the United States torching buildings owned by Danes, Norwegians, French, Spanish and other Cartoon Infidels whose newspapers have printed cartoons, first published in Denmark, bearing the likeness of the Prophet Muhammad?

A: Because American Muslims have better things to do.

and
Quote:
Even so, it took Danish Imam Abu Laban and a handful of other inciters five months to foment the riots. Laban began touring the Middle East last fall, bearing a dozen cartoons -- many of which were sloppy and amateurish -- first published in a Danish paper. They contained unflattering depictions of Muhammad.

Nobody cared.

So then Laban and company got creative. First, they grabbed a photograph taken at a French hog-calling contest, and claimed the fellow wearing a plastic snout and ears actually was posing as a porcine Prophet. They tossed in another bad drawing of a character saying, "I'm a pedophile," along with a photo-shopped tableau of a dog having its way with a Muslim bent in prayer.

Then they put together a list of fake charges against the dastardly Danes. They accused Danish papers of publishing 120 anti-Muslim cartoons and photos. They warned Danes were planning a movie that mocked Muhammad. They charged the Danish government with burning, desecrating and banning the Quran, prohibiting the construction of mosques and outlawing Islam.

and
Quote:
Yet, the central "crime" -- the mere depiction of Muhammad -- is neither a crime nor an anomaly. It has been commonplace in parts of the Muslim world for centuries. Indeed, a prominent Egyptian newspaper published the offending cartoons a week after their original appearance in Denmark. Nobody uttered of word of complaint at the time.

...it sounded pretty fair as well.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #251 of 328
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
segovious thinks I'm out of my tree, but I thought this was great -- okay 'very good'.

...it sounded pretty fair as well.

Well, obviously I do think you're out of your tree but what I said was that the article had 'some' truth in amongst the knee-jerking. not much but some.

This bit is simplistic and perpetuating a stereotype whilst displaying a quite staggering lack of knowledge of the root causes behind the situation:

Quote:
The mayhem has centered in four nations: Afghanistan, Lebanon, Pakistan and Syria. Each has a double-digit unemployment rate, and poverty rates between 32 percent and 52 percent. All have large pools of idle men who can show up for a mob activity at a moment's notice. In short, they're havens for losers, uniquely equipped to stage such spectacles.

I'd question those figures actually anyway but that is not the point - the Middle East is not constructed on Western lines so the comparison is invalid. Even if they were employed, virtually all men would be 'available for rioting' as many employed people are able to sit in a cafe all day smoking nargile.

Quote:
Even so, it took Danish Imam Abu Laban and a handful of other inciters five months to foment the riots. Laban began touring the Middle East last fall, bearing a dozen cartoons -- many of which were sloppy and amateurish -- first published in a Danish paper. They contained unflattering depictions of Muhammad.

This again has an element of truth - it's deviation from the truth occurs when it attempts (as in fact, is the purpose of the article as a whole) to exonerate the Danish newspaper from any culpability at all.

That is clearly nonsensical.

Now we get to the nub:

Quote:
It took a lot of effort -- aided and abetted by Syria, Iran and al Jazeera -- but the lie-mongering finally worked.

Syria - and more importantly: Iran - right in the frame. Denmark absolved.

Same old MO. Nothing new here. It's not Heidegger (well, ok, maybe it is near enough - he was a right-wing fascist wasn't he?).
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #252 of 328
You skipped the last quote. I remember someone bringing up that very same point.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #253 of 328
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
You skipped the last quote. I remember someone bringing up that very same point.

Hmm....there's a flaw in his overall theory though: the US muslims question is a good one but his answer must be incorrect.

You could also ask why it hasn't kicked off in Iraq - any ideas?
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #254 of 328
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Hmm....there's a flaw in his overall theory though: the US muslims question is a good one but his answer must be incorrect.

You could also ask why it hasn't kicked off in Iraq - any ideas?

The unemployed there are busy killing US troops and dodging bullets. No time to organise protests.
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post #255 of 328
Quote:
Originally posted by e1618978
The unemployed there are busy killing US troops and dodging bullets. No time to organise protests.

I thought that the protests were done by killers or wannabe terrorists though? The media told me that so it must be true.

Why not just streamline the process, cut out the protest bit and step up the killing whilst citing the cartoons as the reason?
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #256 of 328
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Hmm....there's a flaw in his overall theory though: the US muslims question is a good one but his answer must be incorrect.

You could also ask why it hasn't kicked off in Iraq - any ideas?

The secret police in Iraq are working for the other side? Seriously, I don't think they're being agitated properly.

I've been trying to reconcile the picturing of the prophet as 'not a crime' with what I've been seeing in the media, which has been -- until I read this article -- universally in the camp of "it's taboo". Had those three other false pictures not appeared I don't think any of this would have been possible. But still you don't see it across the board, even country to country: 800 people here, several thousand there -- just enough to annoy -- I smell a rat.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #257 of 328
On the other hand...

“a self-confident faith is not this defensive and touchy. It can and must brush off provocation, or be consumed by it."
-Andrew Sullivan

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #258 of 328
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
On the other hand...

“a self-confident faith is not this defensive and touchy. It can and must brush off provocation, or be consumed by it."
-Andrew Sullivan

What does this tell us about your faith, dmz, with your incessant mud-flinging and inability to not interject on any subject that you feel even brushes against anything you hold dear (whether or not your contribution is meaningful)?
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post #259 of 328
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
I thought that the protests were done by killers or wannabe terrorists though? The media told me that so it must be true.

Why not just streamline the process, cut out the protest bit and step up the killing whilst citing the cartoons as the reason?

Actually, I have not heard the press say that the protesters were wannabe terrorists - but in a way they are terrorists. They are using violence to instill fear, and doing it on purpose in order to try and achieve a political purpose.

The protesters are the "skim milk" of terrorists, as compared to the "full fat cream" of Al Queda.
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post #260 of 328
Are angry American protestors low-level terrorists?
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post #261 of 328
Quote:
Originally posted by groverat
Are angry American protestors low-level terrorists?

Are they killing people and burning down buildings? No.

The closest that we have gotten is the Rodney King riots, but since the people were burning their own neighbourhoods in that case, the terrorism had a limited audience (Korean grocers in east LA).

Actually, come to think of it - a little closer than that is the eco-terrorists and "anarchists" that use violence to try and stop free trade (like at WTO meetings and stuff).
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post #262 of 328
Quote:
Originally posted by e1618978
Are they killing people and burning down buildings?

proud resident of a failed state
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post #263 of 328
Quote:
Originally posted by groverat

Forgot about that guy. Yes - that guy was a terrorist. What is your point?
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post #264 of 328
Quote:
Originally posted by groverat
...your incessant mud-flinging ...

I don't understand, I'm on the verge of declaring the riots to be unrepresentative of Islam -- only agitprop.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #265 of 328
Quote:
Originally posted by e1618978
What is your point?

That you have no point?
'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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post #266 of 328
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
I don't understand -- only agitprop.

More like propagit.
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post #267 of 328
Quote:
Originally posted by e1618978
Forgot about that guy. Yes - that guy was a terrorist. What is your point?

My point is that before 9/11 a white Christian (on-again, off-again) nutcase had killed the most Americans with a single terrorist attack.

My point is that, yes, angry Americans do blow up buildings and kill people. They shoot abortion doctors and blow up abortion clinics. They blow up federal buildings.

I am very sorry if that inconveniences you, but it is the truth.

So, are angry American terrorists low-level terrorists? I asked this before but you answered with a quesiton.


Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
I don't understand, I'm on the verge of declaring the riots to be unrepresentative of Islam -- only agitprop.

On the verge? How noble of you.

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post #268 of 328
Quote:
Originally posted by groverat
My point is that before 9/11 a white Christian (on-again, off-again) nutcase had killed the most Americans with a single terrorist attack.

My point is that, yes, angry Americans do blow up buildings and kill people. They shoot abortion doctors and blow up abortion clinics. They blow up federal buildings.

I am very sorry if that inconveniences you, but it is the truth.

So, are angry American terrorists low-level terrorists? I asked this before but you answered with a quesiton.

If they try to make pollitical change via violence, death, and property destruction, then yes. In that case they are no better than the arabs burning the embassy. Most american protests, and most angry americans, don't resort to these measures, so they aren't terrorists.

But if you are trying to use that as a comparison to justify the actions of the embassy burners, then sorry - two wrongs don't make a right.
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post #269 of 328
Quote:
Originally posted by e1618978
If they try to make pollitical change via violence, death, and property destruction, then yes. In that case they are no better than the arabs burning the embassy.


Bush misues intelligence to gain support to invade another country...

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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post #270 of 328
Oh come now! That was just an accident, invading Iraq! They said so!
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #271 of 328
Quote:
Originally posted by e1618978
If they try to make pollitical change via violence, death, and property destruction, then yes. In that case they are no better than the arabs burning the embassy. Most american protests, and most angry americans, don't resort to these measures, so they aren't terrorists.

You said:
Actually, I have not heard the press say that the protesters were wannabe terrorists - but in a way they are terrorists. They are using violence to instill fear, and doing it on purpose in order to try and achieve a political purpose.

The protesters are the "skim milk" of terrorists, as compared to the "full fat cream" of Al Queda.


I was merely asking if the same applied to Americans of the same ilk. What of those who send death threats to try and scare people out of doing things?

Also, we generally don't act out against other nations as people inside the US because our nation has almost unlimited power to exact vengeance on just about any nation for any reason and we can simply drink from that well of blood to satisfy our lust.

We don't gather in mobs to burn down embassies, we just spend hundreds of billions to invade nations.

Quote:
But if you are trying to use that as a comparison to justify the actions of the embassy burners, then sorry - two wrongs don't make a right.

What?
The point is the ridiculous notion that Arabs are somehow significantly more violent or more likely to become terrorists than Americans.

All one does is selectively apply the definition of terrorist and, hey presto!, absurd statements like "Americans don't do that!".
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post #272 of 328
Quote:
Originally posted by groverat
We don't gather in mobs to burn down embassies, we just spend hundreds of billions to invade nations.

But we don't do either in response to cartoons, unlike the arabs.
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post #273 of 328
Quote:
Originally posted by e1618978
But we don't do either in response to cartoons, unlike the arabs.

That's right! We do it because, um, er, hmm. Um. Why did we do it, again?
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #274 of 328
Quote:
Originally posted by groverat

Yeah. I remember how right after they took McVeigh into custody he was hailed as a hero, had groups lobby to set him free and that there was no universal condemnation of his actions by American churches, white males, ex-military, any other group with whom he could be possibly associated.


Using the exception to prove the rule is a massive logical fallacy and frankly, you should know better.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #275 of 328
It's all coming back to me!
Gosh, Nick, I distinctly remember getting about 3,000 of my closest Christian brothers together and celebrating the bombing with a killer block party.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #276 of 328
You had to go back 10 years to find that. He was a nutcase and he is gone. We are talking about much more mainstream activities in the Muslim world.
post #277 of 328
Quote:
Originally posted by Mac on a Mac
We are talking about much more mainstream activities in the Muslim world.

Like this?

Quote:
Protests took place in Turkey over the weekend, while Denmark saw about 25 Muslim graves desecrated in what police called a "backlash" against the uproar.

Vandals smashed only Muslim headstones in Esbjerg, west of Copenhagen.

It appears that Rasmussen is ready to meet some Muslims in Denmark. The only question is: since they are going to be wearing turbans with bombs on their heads, how is he going to protect himself from dem terroristz?

Oh, also, he needs an ample supply of virgins too.
'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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post #278 of 328
The point being, (instead of talking around it), is that this administration is being most calculatingly successful at framing the terrorism issue. Mainstream American has for decades equated "terrorism" with "Palestinian" (read: all Palestinians are terrorists or potential terrorists), because of one-sided and simplistic reporting, but that didn't go far enough for the hard-core, hard-right "Zionist" crowd in the AEI, AIPAC, PNAC and other extremist DC groups. Thanks to their efforts, and a media that is going through White House kneepads at an accelerating pace, "terrorist/terrorism" is becoming synonymous with "Islamic" or "Muslim".

The recent anger isn't so much about the cartoons, but more the underlying frustration and rage at having their faith, traditions and customs become not only demonized, but also their nations subject to military attack and invasion without reason or provocation. The cartoons are really rather insignificant to most Muslims, as pointed out earlier in the thread, but they could be the trigger for some even more serious unrest, possiblt even the "straw that breaks the camel's back".
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #279 of 328
Quote:
Originally posted by sammi jo
The recent anger isn't so much about the cartoons, but more the underlying frustration and rage at having their faith, traditions and customs become not only demonized, but also their nations subject to military attack and invasion without reason or provocation. The cartoons are really rather insignificant to most Muslims, as pointed out earlier in the thread, but they could be the trigger for some even more serious unrest, possiblt even the "straw that breaks the camel's back".

Exactly! And that is why the Christians do it too smack is irrelevant. The problem is specific to the Muslim world and we need to admit that if we are going to make any progress in improving the situation. The roots of the problem are:
1. Many Muslims live in countries where most are the people have very little money and even less chance of improving their status. This makes them vulnerable to abuse and mistreatment by their own leadership, and with the blessing of their own leadership, abuse by the US and prosperous European countries.

2. Because of (1), many Muslims immigrate where they meet up with many of the same abuses.

This has created a situation where Muslims feel abuses, neglected, unwanted and under siege. The solution must be economic and social change in Muslim countries. These countries need to develop free market economies where a person has the opportunity to improve his or her place in life. The outside cannot force this change. It must come from within. Its time for the US and Europe to stop propping up the Emirs and Sheiks and let changes come.
post #280 of 328
A free market doesn't do squat for them. China has a free market - look at the state of their liberal elite: either jailed or dead.

A liberal movement with strong connections to traditionalists that are willing to discuss rationally about reform and the necessity of it is what is needed today in some parts of the Muslim world (mostly Middle East).

Economic woes do lead to frustration and anger, but their disappearance would not make for a happy and scrappy youth either. The change should come from within, and it shouldn't be focused (only) on the material side of things.
'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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