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Chimera 0.x.x (perpetual thread)

post #1 of 149
Thread Starter 
This is the last title change to reflect the nature of this thread. Is *this* one okay?
I've also changed all my pictures to links for the bandwidth-impaired.
No more complaining!
Â*
Â*
Get the latest milestone build here:
<a href="http://chimera.mozdev.org/installation.html" target="_blank">http://chimera.mozdev.org/installation.html</a>

...or get a nightly build of it here:
<a href="ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/chimera/nightly/latest-trunk/" target="_blank">ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/chimera/nightly/latest-trunk/</a>

Just keep in mind that nightly builds are inherently feature-incomplete, buggy, and possibly crash-prone. However, they may give you a sneak peek into future options, features, and improvements. Rule of thumb: install nightly builds at your own risk.

Scroll down to read the details on each update since 0.2.0...

-----------------

[ 06-10-2002: Message edited by: starfleetX ]</p>
post #2 of 149
man, I can't wait till this browser is ready. It just 'feels' so good - the speed, the gui, everythingn about it just seems so right.
post #3 of 149
Are you using some kind of theme, there's no stripes in your title bar?

The most annoying thing for me about all these Gecko-based browsers is that "location" and "tools" aren't separable - ie you can't just show the location, you have to show back/forward/reload... too.
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post #4 of 149
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by Clive:
<strong>Are you using some kind of theme</strong><hr></blockquote>Yep.
[quote]<strong>you can't just show the location</strong><hr></blockquote>Errmm... wrong. Chimera uses a standard Cocoa toolbar so you can simply drag off the items you don't want:

<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/images/ChimeraSnap005.png" target="_blank">picture</a>

[ 04-15-2002: Message edited by: starfleetX ]

[ 05-01-2002: Message edited by: starfleetX ]</p>
post #5 of 149
starfleetX: Errmm... wrong. Chimera uses a standard Cocoa toolbar so you can simply drag off the items you don't want:


Neat, didn't know. So does the "location" entry box and toolbar resize automatically or what?
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post #6 of 149
Thread Starter 
Yes, the location box automatically resizes to fill as much of the toolbar that isn't used by other buttons, just like OmniWeb does.
post #7 of 149
apple site itself is now touting the Chimera browser:
<a href="http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/internet_utilities/chimera.html" target="_blank">apple site</a>
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post #8 of 149
see below

[ 04-20-2002: Message edited by: thegelding ]</p>
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post #9 of 149
ok, so chimera is still rough around the edges...but i am using it almost exclusively now...very fast and i love the auto stop pop ups...yeah....i hate pop ups....g

it is simple yet pretty also....love the tabs and now i can add minimal preferences and use bookmarks and such....but how do i increase the text size??? g

did i mention that it is fast??really fast...get my mail from work in half the time as IE or Netscape 6.2.2.... love the tabs (repeating myself)...how many tabs can be opened at one time??
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post #10 of 149
starfleet x, what osx theme are you using?
and where did you get it?
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post #11 of 149
[quote]Originally posted by New:
<strong>starfleet x, what osx theme are you using?
and where did you get it? </strong><hr></blockquote>

The theme is called "Smooth Stripes" and I believe it comes with Duality.
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post #12 of 149
Thread Starter 
FYI, Chimera 0.2.2 is due for release tonight at midnight. [quote]Chimera 0.2.2 will be available at midnight tonight! You will be able to download it from <a href="http://people.netscape.com/sdagley/chimera/chimera22.dmg.gz" target="_blank">this link</a>, and also from the iDisk location.<hr></blockquote>I'll report on it as soon as I've got it and tested its new features which include: [quote]What's New In 0.2.2

Chimera can now open URLs sent to it from other apps, so you can now make Chimera your default browser and not have it sit there looking stupid when you tell it to load something.

Text Zoom has been implemented, so you can now increase and decrease the font size used in a Web page.

Chimera now obeys the new minimum font size pref, ensuring that Quartz-rendered fonts don't fall below the typical anti-aliasing cutoff point. Quartz rendering has been improved. In addition to being speedier, it now has fixes for printing and for text spacing.

Chimera now has a bookmarks toolbar. Like the Mozilla Classic personal toolbar, Chimera's toolbar can wrap to multiple rows and supports pages and folders.

Bookmarks management has been improved. You can now specify where you want to create a new bookmark. You can now create new folders. The sidebar tree widget has been enhanced to support more keyboard navigation (left/right arrows to open/close, return to launch, delete key to delete, etc.).

Bookmark groups have been fully implemented. When adding a bookmark with multiple tabs open, you have the option of bookmarking all the tabs as a single group. Use this feature to load bundles of pages in a single click!

Background tab loading will now work. Background tabs will now refresh properly if left unattended.<hr></blockquote>
post #13 of 149
Midnight in what timezone?
post #14 of 149
Thread Starter 
Pacific, I believe, because the server hosting Chimera is in California.
post #15 of 149
Thread Starter 
Well, I got my hands on a prerelease 0.2.2 and here's my report on so far:

* Well, text size is back up to (AppleInsider is much more readable now).
* The Bookmarks Toolbar may be a nice addition for some users, but I never use those and with I could turn it off. Clicking the toolbar on/off widget does not hide the Bookmarks Toolbar like OmniWeb does. IMO, it *should* hide it, leaving the document's view only.
* Bookmark management is slightly improved, allowing you to create separators and properly drop bookmarks in folders, but you still can't move or edit existing bookmarks.
* Still no plugins.
* Downloading is still half-baked and the window still shows no progress.
* As seen in the picture below, there are some issues with the window title not matching the frontmost tab.
* Window resizing seems sloer... maybe it's just me.
* Text zooming works, but it freezes up the app for a few seconds while it re-renders the page.
* There's a checkable menu item for "Smooth Text" but trying to uncheck it does nothing yet.
* The "dancing text" bug is still there.
* Navigation in text entry boxes is still wonky. For example, skipping ahead with option-rightarrow stops and freezes at any punctuation.
* Form popup menus still don't work.

<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/images/NavigatorSnap001.png" target="_blank"> see a picture</a>

STILL A MAJOR ANNOYANCE:
* Navigator pushes a window to the front when it loads, even if you hide the app. ARRGG...

[ 05-01-2002: Message edited by: starfleetX ]</p>
post #16 of 149
0.2.2 already?

Gees... I just spent like all of yesterday and the day before just trying to get ahold of 0.2.1, because people.netscape.com was so horribly bogged down. Thankfully some nice person in #mozilla mirrored it on the getchimera iDisk at my request. 0.2.2 looks to have a few good improvements. What I would like to see more improved are the preferences, at this point, because they're looking pretty spare (though compared to Mozilla, simplicity is a good thing, I suppose). And there are a few bugs in tabbed browsing I've encounted that have kept me from using it full time (side note: It seems like the only browser that I never encounter a bug in anymore is IE. Shocking. ).

StarfleetX, where are you getting these prereleases? I'd like to get them as well, and I'd even like to become involved with Chimera/Navigator, as it's turning out to be a really great and promising project.
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post #17 of 149
Thread Starter 
Okay, the 0.2.2 link has been up for some fifteen minutes now. Download speeds from the netscape server are decent; I was pulling around 30K/sec.

It turns out that the 0.2.2 I got was the same as is up now. How did I get it early? Well, the new version was actually up earlier today for a brief instance and someone else snagged it before it disappeared and mirrored it.
post #18 of 149
Yeah, I'm getting about 150k/s... see how it runs in a minute or two
post #19 of 149
Weird,

Can't login to the forums with both Moz and Nav running.

The bookmark all tabs is very cool.

There is no pref for the personal toolbar... I use it, but with nothing in it, it should be hidden.

Bookmarks are getting better. Can't wait for drag and drop organizing as well as functioning contextual menus for bookmarks.

Speed seems about the same for me.

Starfleet: the windows jumping in front of one another has been an ongoing and incredibly annoying bug in mozilla. The current incarnation is here:<a href="http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=137015" target="_blank">Annoying Focus Bug</a>

[ 04-21-2002: Message edited by: foamy ]</p>
post #20 of 149
0.2.1 doesn't seem to work behind my proxy server, does 0.2.2 provide controls for a setup like mine?
post #21 of 149
Thread Starter 
Bill M:
I've never dealt with proxies myself, but I thought you could use the System Prefs Network pane to set your proxies. No? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

[ 04-21-2002: Message edited by: starfleetX ]</p>
post #22 of 149
[quote]Originally posted by starfleetX:
<strong>Bill M:
I've never dealt with proxies myself, but I thought you could use the System Prefs Network pane to set your proxies. No? :confused:

[ 04-21-2002: Message edited by: starfleetX ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yeah, Mozilla and Exploder both run fine with the proxy settings under the System Network Prefs Pane... but somehow Chimera 0.2.1 just won't work on my LAN, albeit it works if I go dial-up (no proxy).
post #23 of 149
How is it that I use Mozilla, and this just creams it? This is just as fast as IE on XP. It kicks major ass! I logged into 3 different banks. Mozilla rc1 won't even get into 2 of them.
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post #24 of 149
Later .9.9 and 1.0 builds and this Chimera render images dark and sometimes even totally messed up...hmmm.
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post #25 of 149
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by Bophasa:
<strong>How is it that I use Mozilla, and this just creams it?</strong><hr></blockquote>Chimera isn't Mozilla as you probably know it. Mozilla 1.0 RC 1 is a CFM-linked Carbon app whereas Chimera uses a newer, leaner Mach-O version. The Mach-O version has one less abstraction layer to go through for system calls than the CFM version. Also, Mach-O takes advantage of Mac OS X's UNIX core for network calls and a few other things. The only major problem with using Mach-O is that no one has gotten plug-ins properly working with it yet.
post #26 of 149
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by Eugene:
<strong>Later .9.9 and 1.0 builds and this Chimera render images dark and sometimes even totally messed up...hmmm.</strong><hr></blockquote>That's because they've started tinkering with gamma controls. Technically, they will render more "correct" than Mozilla had been before and I think it will hook into ColorSync too. Right now, though, it's just kinda buggy.

[ 04-21-2002: Message edited by: starfleetX ]</p>
post #27 of 149
Anyway to import my 1100 bookmarks from IE?
post #28 of 149
Just thought I would give a heads up about the Gamma/Picture problem. David Hyatt posted today on the mailing list.... [quote]I'm going to post a new version of chimera 0.2.2 at midnight tonight
(Sunday) that fixes the gamma correction regression and that adds (gasp!)
the Aqua look to form controls. <hr></blockquote>
...Looks like another late night waiting for the new update, if you into that type of thing
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post #29 of 149
IE5.1 seems to be faster.
post #30 of 149
Thread Starter 
Chimera 0.2.3 is out. Here are the official changes: [quote]Chimera 0.2.2 was compiled with correct ATSUI (ATSUI with kerning and ligatures enabled). Yes, we have that working, but as you saw, it slows things down substantially. Chimera 0.2.3 returns to the fast ATSUI as the default. This pref will eventually be exposed in Advanced preferences (along with the ability to use Quickdraw as well).

The gamma correction regression present in 0.2.2 has been fixed in 0.2.3.

The form controls are now Aqua. This includes button, checkboxes, radio buttons, textfields, listboxes and menulists. Most importantly menulists now function!

Some more crash fixes also made it into 0.2.3.<hr></blockquote>
post #31 of 149
I really like the aqua form controls. Since I rarely use Omniweb, I forgot how tasty they are.
post #32 of 149
Thread Starter 
Changes since 0.2.2 I've noticed.

* Damnit! Default size for text is too small again. Fortunately, selecting "bigger text" gets it up to the right size.
* Colors are wonky. It's gotta be more gamma problems. AI, for example, is way darker than in other browsers.
* Rendering is faster, as noted in the changes above, giving no more Spinning Disk Cursors of Death.
* Aqua widgets are working, but because you have to increase the font size (as I mentioned before) the elements are WAY too big. See <a href="http://brad.project-think.com/images/NavigatorSnap002.png" target="_blank">picture one</a>, <a href="http://brad.project-think.com/images/NavigatorSnap003.png" target="_blank">picture 2</a>

* Still no plugins.
* Text entry fields still can't keep up with fast typing.

[ 05-01-2002: Message edited by: starfleetX ]</p>
post #33 of 149
StarfleetX,

Have you tried changing the font size in the prefs?

Here's what I put in my user.js file (in the same folder as prefs.js) and I haven't had to use the 'bigger text' option in the menu. The drop downs still look bolded, but not as badly as in your pics.

user_pref("font.minimum-size.x-western", 8);
user_pref("font.name.sans-serif.x-western", "Lucida Grande");
user_pref("font.name.serif.x-western", "Lucida Grande");
user_pref("font.size.fixed.x-western", 12);
user_pref("font.size.variable.x-western", 14);

I haven't noticed any real lag in typing, but then again I type pretty slowly <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />

[ 04-22-2002: Message edited by: foamy ]</p>
post #34 of 149
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the prefs info, foamy. I erase my prefs before each review so I know I'm not getting a different experience from Average Joe User.

I'll try those changes you suggested for a while, though, and see if things are any better.

As for the text speed, just try randomly tapping all your fingers on the keyboard really quick to "emulate" how faster people type. You'll see a lag almost instantly. Compare to OmniWeb or IE or even TextEdit to see how text should flow.

[ 04-22-2002: Message edited by: starfleetX ]</p>
post #35 of 149
Thread Starter 
Well, the text size and color problems have already driven me back to OmniWeb. Yeesh. Below are some examples of text on this page rendered in browsers with their default settings, in windows all the same size.

Internet Explorer 5.1.4:
<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/images/texttestIE.png" target="_blank">image</a>

Mozilla 1.0.0 "latest" (not rc1):
<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/images/texttestMoz.png" target="_blank">image</a>

Navigator 0.2.3:
<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/images/texttestNav.png" target="_blank">image</a>

OmniWeb 4.1 sp 69:
<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/images/texttestOW.png" target="_blank">image</a>

[ 04-22-2002: Message edited by: starfleetX ]

[ 05-01-2002: Message edited by: starfleetX ]</p>
post #36 of 149
Thread Starter 
One last example of text size and color changes before I leave this thread for a while.

Internet Explorer, Mozilla, Navigator, OmniWeb

<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/images/texttest2.png" target="_blank">picture</a>

[ 05-01-2002: Message edited by: starfleetX ]</p>
post #37 of 149
Holy shit dude, Chimera is WAY faster at loading web pages than ANY Mac browser out there. This is going to make web browsing on the Mac comparable to browsing on the PC!!! Chimera is great and it's only at 0.2.3! Everyone needs to congratulate the Chimera team for making the best Mac browser ever. Web browsing has been a big problem area for the Mac, no more! And the aqua buttons on the pages look really cool. I still can't load espn.com except for the main page though.
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post #38 of 149
Wow. I was impressed by Mozilla, Chimera blows me away! It's got a beautiful GUI, and it's fast!

For now, the lack of plugin support, and other little things like the aforementioned color/gamma issues are going to keep Mozilla as my default and primary browser, but once Navigator comes into its own, it will definitely be my first choice.

Here's looking forward to Chimera/Navigator 1.0!
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post #39 of 149
I'm having a little trouble with Chimera (and almost all the Mozilla builds).

--Mozilla Mach-o : compiles. double click on icon, it starts to launch, but then quits.
--Mozilla Fink Style: compiles. does not launch from commandline.
--Chimera Binary download: double clock on the icon, it starts to launch, but then quits.
--Chim Chim source: does not compile.

The only thing I have gotten to work for me is the .9.8 Mozilla binary. UGH. Can anyone out there offer a suggestion? (#mozilla on irc was useless. )
post #40 of 149
Though still very obviously in beta, Chimera is definately the future of mac browsing. My only complaint: don't call it "Navigator", geez...Chimera actually sounds cool and not so...well, not so 1995!

rr.
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