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Analyst predicts iBooks, touch-screen iPod at event in April - Page 3

post #81 of 234
I clearly remember that when the iPod was first introduced a lot of people said "Hmmmm, iPod eh? No music in that name, just a generic term for a small, portable enclosure that could carry anything. Betcha Apple has big plans for this form factor".
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post #82 of 234
That all depends on your perspective. Personally I'm not convinced that the core duo's are all that expensive.

From the marketing stand point we might see a single core iBook but I doubt it would be out for long. It likely would be a stop gap measure until the Merom based "PowerBooks" come out.

The issue is pretty simply multiple cores are the wave of the future. Apple simply has not other choice. Now timing is another thing all together, but in two years I doubt very much that you will see any PC manufacture having success selling single core hardware. The reality is that just two cores have a dramtic impact on PC usability for modern work loads. Once this becomes more widely known consumers will just add multiple cores to their check off list when they go shopping.

Dave


Quote:
Originally posted by jivebaby
When will people get that the dual core chip is too expensive for the ibook line?
post #83 of 234
Quote:
Originally posted by wizard69
From the marketing stand point we might see a single core iBook but I doubt it would be out for long. It likely would be a stop gap measure until the Merom based "PowerBooks" come out.

Dave

Plus, we should all know by now how Apple loves to milk us with incremental speed bumps/processor upgrades.

Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if the iBook goes through lowly bumps like this:

single core
duo core 1.67
duocore 1.83
Mercom
post #84 of 234
I think that IF Apple chooses to use the Yonah(single core) that it will be the base model in the MacBook(iBook) line. The cost difference is not that great, but for schools who buy in quantity that small cost can amount to a much larger amount than a normal consumer would worry about. I think that we will see a Core Duo chip in the MacBook, albeit a slower clock speed than those in the MacBook Pro line. One reason is the latency in Rossetta. The single core would most likely have problems handling the third party software that many people use on a day to day basis. Just my two cents...

Cheers!
post #85 of 234
Quote:
Originally posted by dansgil
I understand that with current iPods, to reset the device you hold menu and select. How would you do something like this with a touch screen device? Are there touch screens that can detect more than one finger at a time? If not, do you think Apple would put other buttons to do resets and enter diagnostic mode?

In order to reset you'll have to do the trick with money boxes that you must perform for to open. For instance, you place the iPod with dock connection facing outwards, you quickly spin it counter-clockwise 1 1/2 times and raise the end with the dock connector up in order for the iPod to reset itself.

Quite elementary actually. Except I often can't get my money box to open... Maybe it's clockwise?
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post #86 of 234
I'm waiting for either the "new" iBook 13.3" or the MacBook Pro version, I own a 15" PowerBook 500MHZ, it's too big & heavy for traveling, I just can't go out without my mac around, that's why I need the small factor of portability.. I almost bought the new iBook but now I'm stuck in the void waiting for the new 12" or 13" versions, I do hope they come out with the 13.3" option, there PC versions are really light & small, but.. they come with windows.. lol...

Should I get the 12" iBook, PowerBook or just wait for the new one's???
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post #87 of 234
Quote:
---------------
Originally posted by Chris Cuilla:
Apple sold 14 millions in 3 months.

Now, what were you saying again?

Personally I would hate using a cell phone/music player combo. I just want a phone that works well as a phone. Is that too much to ask? Probably.
------------------
Originally posted by JeffDM
I think the point was that just one model of a phone sold that many in a market where there are several dozen models with no single brand hogging the market, and nearly all of those several dozen phone models also play music, so that could mean 50M+ such phones sold worldwide in the same time period.

I do think a dedicated device is easier to use and in other ways better than a converged multi-device, but which way the market goes simply depends on buyer preference.

right, what JeffDM said, but i was also asking, how many ipods sold apple the year it was introduced? you do the math.

i dont know in the USA but in europe, where the cellphone market is much more advanced, the ipod as a mp3 only is already doomed.
Have you tried sony's new cells as mp3 player? they work perfectly, only difference is you can scroll lists faster with the ipod, but that could be adressed introducing acceleracion with constant joystic press, just a software update.


again, i hope we see the new big-screen-ipod as a sort of Palm's lifedrive -apple may be already trying to buy Palm according to some sources.
post #88 of 234
Quote:
Originally posted by jindrich
i dont know in the USA but in europe, where the cellphone market is much more advanced, the ipod as a mp3 only is already doomed.

Bollocks.

The iPod have had its huge succes during the period where phones gained cameras and MP3 players. Those who buy the advanced telephones are more likely to buy iPods than the rest of the population because the iPod are offering something a phone can´t. If Apple is integrating a phone into the thing they are are just making it MORE like a phone and have to compete with Nokia and S//E and have to enter a very difficult marked of subsidy deals with 5+ operators in each marked, limiting functions for one operator, branding the phone for another etc etc. If they don´t do that they can focus on doing things with it that can never be done with a phone combo (taking the video part further).

"But they can do both". Qtek tried that and even if their phones are interesting they do not appeal to the average user, not even the majority of the tech savvy persons and I can understand why.

I don´t think people are really getting how the marked works.
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post #89 of 234
ipod as phone and itunes / iphone won't work till more broadband cell phone access is available. europe has 1-3mbs cell service. only a few US cities have 400-700kbs (we are soooo weak) people and apple want customers to download to the phone. the rokr failed for lot of reasons (many,most returned phone per forums) that include can't download directly. we want to untie people from their PC"s.

you can't bring out a technology that only a few can use, and expect any real growth. not the apple way!
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post #90 of 234
im in contact with a language school in germany who receives students from all over the world.
do you want to know how many ipods the poeple have? zero
they ALL have new phones with mp3 capabilities. Students from japan, corea, usa, china, switzerland..etc

make of this what you want
post #91 of 234
I´ve made extensive customer analysis reports for the largest wireless phone company company here in Denmark for a couple of years. The segment Apple caters for with the iPod will NOT abandon it for a phone-only solution. Make of it whatever you want.

Chris is very representative of how the tech savvy segment thinks. The MP3 capabilities and camera is extras that doesn´t replace the real thing.
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post #92 of 234
Quote:
Originally posted by Anders
Chris is very representative of how the tech savvy segment thinks.

Not sure if that is a good thing or a bad thing.
post #93 of 234
I don't really have an opinion about the upcoming iBooks. In terms of the iPod, though think convergence. Apple/Jobs said they wouldn't integrate video, but they did. I know they'll eventually integrate a cell phone into it (and damn, that's what I've been waiting for!) To all those out there who think there will be scratch issues to a touch screen, think again - they generally have coatings on them to prevent scratches - no issue.

I don't have time to work up a mock up, but perhaps someone out there could for the following idea. Considering that one side of the iPod might be a touch screen, this negates any need for the iPod to change its form factor. In other words, there doesn't need to be a flip out keyboard, because there can be a virtual touch screen keyboard (in horizontal mode). In vertical mode, the problem is solved to come up with a better way to integrate a number pad for a cell phone, again it would be a vitual touch screen number pad to make calls that were not already in your Address book. Enjoy. I can hardly wait for something like this.
post #94 of 234
The cell carriers have one thing going for them: ubiquity.

They can toss a "music store" into the mix, sell a bunch of phones and then turn around and say "Look! iPod killer! Lots of people have "V Cast" enabled phones!".

What the cell phone carriers do not have are good prices, good interfaces or a good ecosystem. $2.00 a pop for a song that gets buried in cobbled together interface from a really poorly laid out on-line store and virtually no accessories to extend the value of your purchase. But all of that on every phone sold, so: iPod killer.

Cell carriers make Apple's "walled garden" of iPod interoperability look like open source. They make a lot of money selling ring tones and wallpaper, so they figure "hey, we've got this tightly controlled, always on little data spigot, so we are the rightful owners of digital download business and we can charge whatever we want!"

But there is a big difference between being willing to spend some money to customize your cell and trying to manage a large music library on same. See any "cell boomboxes" around? You going to take your cell to a party and hook it up to a stereo with your "party mix"? How about sharing playlists? Sprint can't talk to Verizon can't talk to Cingular can't talk to T Mobile.

If the carriers were smart they would be begging Apple to design a phone with full iTunes functionality (sorry Moto, not even close).

Instead, they'll do everything they can to keep Apple at arms length while they try to figure out how to grab the market for themselves.

Extra monthly charges, complex billing schemes, horrible interfaces, half-assed afterthought "stores", jacked up prices and sharply limited paths to get in or out of your player. Sounds like an iPod killer to me.
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post #95 of 234
the phones are disposable, no tecnology is worth more than 2 years, not so the ipod. carriers push phones only to push their service and long contracts. lets enpower people with unlocked phones then customers then choose the service provider. the phones the carrier sells are purposely limited and most are not really quality....just rehash old stuff with new packages. and the quality is sooooo spotty that customer service is trash. but those long contracts are nearly impossible to get out of....something like renting your music. that's what the carriers want, it's all collusion, the market isn't really competitive as long as customers are not the driving force. if their products are sooooo goood then let us be free of the monopolistic contracts. and so i vote for apple to have it's own service and phones so we don't get in the situation of renting our music only to end up endentured servants of the carriers. you lose your music if you change carriers they want those long term contracts and give you junk phones.
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post #96 of 234
If Apple doesn't converge both 12" and 14" screen sizes to make a 13.3" widescreen, I hope they don't make the 14" the only model with duos. I want an iBook that's around 12", my mom has a 14", it's way too big for me. I would suppose 13.3" may give the keyboard a bit of breathing room, too. Can't wait to get rid of this iBook G3. I also wouldn't mind waiting until the fall or next year for a new iBook because that would give Apple more time to get the MBP prepped for Merom and give me a bit more time to ride this iBook and save for a PS3 rather than an iBook.
post #97 of 234
The iPod has become too popular, people are buying something else, like Creative Zen's - "Just for something different."

Nevertheless, with its massive market share, Apple will likely be dominant for many, many years to come. Dont see them dyeing too soon, if they die at all.

Anyways, Macbook will probably get dual core at $1500AUD price point, however, if they want to make a $999AUD with single core for education and Mac Mini for laptop kind of experience, they would probably fly out the door.
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post #98 of 234
Quote:
Originally posted by pyriX
The iPod has become too popular, people are buying something else, like Creative Zen's - "Just for something different."

Wow, must be some good crack on your planet...
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post #99 of 234
Quote:
Originally posted by MacRonin
Wow, must be some good crack on your planet...


Yes... We are a happy people...


Seriously, I wasn't proposing that the iPod is dead, but I see a surprising number of people, both online and real world that are getting a creative just becuase it's different to the iPods.

If I was buying an MP3, it would be an iPod, simply for iTunes, which I use already with my palm, dragging and dropping songs onto my SD card, but would be great to synchronise stuff.

Then again, I followed a freind around a shopping centre for about half an hour while he was trying to find some white, apple headphones. No one had them, so he brought some nice black Sony's to match his nano.
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post #100 of 234
Quote:
Originally posted by speed_the_collapse
If Apple doesn't converge both 12" and 14" screen sizes to make a 13.3" widescreen, I hope they don't make the 14" the only model with duos. I want an iBook that's around 12", my mom has a 14", it's way too big for me. I would suppose 13.3" may give the keyboard a bit of breathing room, too. Can't wait to get rid of this iBook G3. I also wouldn't mind waiting until the fall or next year for a new iBook because that would give Apple more time to get the MBP prepped for Merom and give me a bit more time to ride this iBook and save for a PS3 rather than an iBook.

Thing is, the 13" widescreen would make the new iBook very similar in terms of overall size to the existing 12". In fact, looking at my iBook as I type this, the amount of space around the bezel could easily be reduced and even with an iSight built in the form factor would likely be smaller than current models.
post #101 of 234
Originally posted by pyriX
....Anyways, Macbook will probably get dual core at $1500AUD price point, however, if they want to make a $999AUD with single core for education and Mac Mini for laptop kind of experience, they would probably fly out the door.



hi pyriX i think since the current iBooks are AUD$1599 and AUD$2049, perhaps a MacBook Core Solo 13" wide with isight could be priced at somewhere inbetween... dualcore at AUD$1500 is too insane, though it would be nice . i'll just take a stab at AUD$1699 on the MacBook Core Solo 13" wide -- (yes, i am shameless at cross-posting my mockups)

post #102 of 234
sunilraman, how about sub note book - 10" or 11" MacBook Mini - mock up? Black & White

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post #103 of 234
Quote:
Originally posted by icibaqu
from people i know who have gotten mp3 phones, the main issue to them is battery life. so until that situation is addressed significantly, cellphone/mp3 players don't really present a market to the same degree the ipod does. the ipod simply wouldn't be as popular w/o that 10+ hour battery life.

Thankyou. This is what people don't get. I've an SE p910i phone which has built in mp3 and aac playing even. The card slot allows me to get music on there fairly easily. However, if the phone isn't charged up fully, I've at best 3 hours play time on it. Add in using it as a phone and you can't go more than half a day without having to recharge. It's a bit of a bummer not being able to use the phone because you've drained it listening to music. Not having an mp3 player out the back of nowhere on my bike is an inconvenience. Not having a phone is potentially disastrous.
post #104 of 234
Quote:
Originally posted by Nine-Seventy
Thing is, the 13" widescreen would make the new iBook very similar in terms of overall size to the existing 12". In fact, looking at my iBook as I type this, the amount of space around the bezel could easily be reduced and even with an iSight built in the form factor would likely be smaller than current models.

Yep. Remember it's the diagonal that's measured here. If they keep the same screen height as the 12.1" screen, a 13.3" screen would only be about 11" wide as opposed to 10". If they use a slightly higher res screen and less screen height to fit the camera in then a 1280x800 screen may fit in to the current width case.

I'm hoping they do something like the Sony TX2. Saw one of those a couple of days ago and they're lovely little things. There's a white one which you could almost drop an Apple logo on and you'd not think it was anything other than an Apple product.

http://www.ultranote.com/index.php/c.../view/217/236/

Also, Many people are presuming Apple will use the Core Solo or Duo. Apple doesn't need to. They could use the Celeron M Series. Intel released a 1.7Ghz Celeron M based on the old Dothan at the same time as the Core but they've got them all the way up from 1.2Ghz. And the Celeron M 4xx series is based on the Core Solo clocking in at 1.46 to 1.8Ghz. It has a smaller cache than the Core Solo and a slower bus.

Even the 1.2Ghz Celeron M would give the old G4 in the iBook a run for it's money. Something faster would be nice though as even budget PC laptops aren't that slow.
post #105 of 234
http://vaio-online.sony.com/sg/vaio/...son/popup.html

lots of configs available from SONY, interesting indeed, let us hope APPLE makes wide options as well

MacBook Pro - 17", 15.4"
MacBook - 13.3"
MacBook Nano - 11.1 or 10"

AND

iPod PDA - 5.0"

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post #106 of 234
Well I'm at uni in the UK and everyone has iPods. A very select few use their phones as music players, despite most of us having the latest phones, you know why?

The sound quality is crap. Most phones do not have a headphone port (so handsfree sets can be used) and the headphones available are rubbish. Mobile Phone companies are concentrating on universally upgrading everything at once, the cameras, the music playing, txt messaging. Its because of this that the iPod still remains king, and phones will never take over as they're always playing catchup. The sales figures talk for themselves people.
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post #107 of 234
Quote:
Originally posted by pyriX
Yes... We are a happy people...


Seriously, I wasn't proposing that the iPod is dead, but I see a surprising number of people, both online and real world that are getting a creative just becuase it's different to the iPods.

If I was buying an MP3, it would be an iPod, simply for iTunes, which I use already with my palm, dragging and dropping songs onto my SD card, but would be great to synchronise stuff.

Then again, I followed a freind around a shopping centre for about half an hour while he was trying to find some white, apple headphones. No one had them, so he brought some nice black Sony's to match his nano.

Wow...that's utterly boring. If you're gonna go different, why not go different *all the way* and buy a CD player or a cassette walkman?
post #108 of 234
Quote:
Originally posted by pyriX
Seriously, I wasn't proposing that the iPod is dead, but I see a surprising number of people, both online and real world that are getting a creative just becuase it's different to the iPods.

There's a number of Windows users I've come across that just won't buy anything from Apple, even iPods. And it's not because of useless features they'll never use like a radio or voice recorder. There's even Windows users who I've convinced to buy Apple kit who then bitch at me for all the little things that aren't like Windows and therefore inferior. The problem generally is that their practices and behaviour is so far ingrained that they have real problems with Apple's simple, minimalistic kit and software. The number of times I've had to explain that "No, there isn't a Wizard, you just drag that from there to here and it just does it" or that you just plug it in and it does it, leads me to believe that some Windows users just like life difficult and go looking for the hard route because that's what they expect. Daft but it happens.

It's sometimes not helped by Apple seemingly hiding stuff in obvious under your nose locations.

One Windows user I was talking to didn't know that you could drag tracks in iTunes into the playlists for on the fly playlists. In Windows he was used to an interface for building playlists with +/- and two windows, or right clicking. He'd not worked out sprung folders either.

But buying Creative just so you're different is like coating yourself in pig manure to stand out. They treat their customers with the worst service I've ever come across with product support dropped as soon as they've moved on to the next product version - something that happens all too often. Creative have just lost the (distant) Number 2 spot in mp3 player sales to Sandisk too.
post #109 of 234
Quote:
Originally posted by minderbinder
Oh? When will people get that the Duo and solo barely differ in price?

Intel Core Duo Processor\tT2300\tDual 1.66 GHz\t$241
Intel Core Solo Processor\tT1300\tSingle 1.66 GHz\t$209

32 dollars more puts it out of the price range? And you do realize that the high end iBook is only $200 less than the low end powerbook, right? I'm not saying they should make ALL iBooks, the duo, but it should at least be available on the pricier models.

32 dollars equates to 120 - 150 dollars at the checkout assuming there are no other associated costs. This may or may not allow Apple to hit their target price points. If it doesn't then it won't happen. Simple.
post #110 of 234
Quote:
Originally posted by JeffDM
Yeah, that worked out real well when Apple got a bunch of bad press and had to replace a bunch of scratched nanos.

Yeah I know; Nano sales just collapsed didn't they?
post #111 of 234
Quote:
Originally posted by aegisdesign
I'm hoping they do something like the Sony TX2. Saw one of those a couple of days ago and they're lovely little things. There's a white one which you could almost drop an Apple logo on and you'd not think it was anything other than an Apple product.

http://www.ultranote.com/index.php/c.../view/217/236/


I noticed this in the specs:
-ultra slim built-in double layer DVD writer

hmm...why is it that Apple can't put one of those into it's PowerBooks which are (I believe) slightly thicker than the Sony.

On a slightly different note, I saw one of these in person a few days ago and it looked slightly uncomfortable. The person using it had Firefox open and the text on the screen was almost illegible because it was so small.
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post #112 of 234
Quote:
Originally posted by kim kap sol
Wow...that's utterly boring. If you're gonna go different, why not go different *all the way* and buy a CD player or a cassette walkman?

Portable 8-Track anyone?
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post #113 of 234
Quote:
Originally posted by sunilraman
Originally posted by pyriX
....Anyways, Macbook will probably get dual core at $1500AUD price point, however, if they want to make a $999AUD with single core for education and Mac Mini for laptop kind of experience, they would probably fly out the door.



hi pyriX i think since the current iBooks are AUD$1599 and AUD$2049, perhaps a MacBook Core Solo 13" wide with isight could be priced at somewhere inbetween... dualcore at AUD$1500 is too insane, though it would be nice . i'll just take a stab at AUD$1699 on the MacBook Core Solo 13" wide -- (yes, i am shameless at cross-posting my mockups)


Antione has another version over on the blackbook thread:

http://testphotos.free.fr/blackbook.mov
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post #114 of 234
Theory: There will be a 15.4-inch MacBook that will be priced and specced between the 13.3-inch widescreen model at $1,299 and the MacBook Pro low-end model at $1,999. Just a thought.
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post #115 of 234
Quote:
Originally posted by aegisdesign
Thankyou. This is what people don't get. I've an SE p910i phone which has built in mp3 and aac playing even. The card slot allows me to get music on there fairly easily. However, if the phone isn't charged up fully, I've at best 3 hours play time on it. Add in using it as a phone and you can't go more than half a day without having to recharge. It's a bit of a bummer not being able to use the phone because you've drained it listening to music. Not having an mp3 player out the back of nowhere on my bike is an inconvenience. Not having a phone is potentially disastrous.

People forget that the receiver takes a lot of power just sitting around waiting for a call to come in. If you turn it off, then what's the point of having it?

So, if Apple does have their own phone/player, it shouldn't replace the iPods, but supplement them.

How come only a few of us seem to understand that?
post #116 of 234
Quote:
Originally posted by kim kap sol
Wow...that's utterly boring. If you're gonna go different, why not go different *all the way* and buy a CD player or a cassette walkman?

post #117 of 234
Quote:
Originally posted by mynamehere
I noticed this in the specs:
-ultra slim built-in double layer DVD writer

hmm...why is it that Apple can't put one of those into it's PowerBooks which are (I believe) slightly thicker than the Sony.

On a slightly different note, I saw one of these in person a few days ago and it looked slightly uncomfortable. The person using it had Firefox open and the text on the screen was almost illegible because it was so small.

I think that's what Apple's using in the MacBook Pro.

They're slower though.
post #118 of 234
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
I think that's what Apple's using in the MacBook Pro.

They're slower though.

They're 4x and not DL in the MacBookPro. They apparently needed a thinner drive in the MacBook Pro than in the G4 Powerbook. The motherboard and chips presumably take up more room.

edit: The Sony TX2 DVD specs btw

Type \tDual Layer DVD+/-RW
Read Speed \t24x (CD) / 8x (DVD)
Write Speed \t24x (CD) / 2.4x (DVD)
Rewrite Speed \t8x (CD) / 2x (DVD)


So nothing to write home about. The only advantage is the DL writing. It's not a slot loader either, not that that bothers me. Apple's insistence on slot loaders is often why we have to put up with lower spec drives.
post #119 of 234
Quote:
Originally posted by Zenga
I'm waiting for either the "new" iBook 13.3" or the MacBook Pro version, I own a 15" PowerBook 500MHZ, it's too big & heavy for traveling, I just can't go out without my mac around, that's why I need the small factor of portability.. I almost bought the new iBook but now I'm stuck in the void waiting for the new 12" or 13" versions, I do hope they come out with the 13.3" option, there PC versions are really light & small, but.. they come with windows.. lol...

Should I get the 12" iBook, PowerBook or just wait for the new one's???

I am in the same boat. I am going to use my tax return this year to buy a Mac portable. My advice is to do what I am doing: Hold out until the new iBook replacements come out, and wait to see what Apple will do in the way of a 12 or 13inch MacBook Pro... In the end, you will either get one of the Intel based portables and be happy, or you will get a better buy on one of the PowerPC portables that will drop in price due to the debut of newer machines.
post #120 of 234
Originally posted by Cubit
Antione has another version over on the blackbook thread:
http://testphotos.free.fr/blackbook.mov


wow. that's badass. nice animation
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