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MacBook Pro announcement may pave way for dual-core iBooks

post #1 of 74
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Apple's announcement today that it has dropped the 1.67GHz Intel Core Duo processor from its professional MacBook Pro line -- in favor of using faster chips -- presents the possibility that the company may now adopt that low-end 1.67GHz dual-core processor for use in its forthcoming consumer iBook notebooks.

In recent months, sources reported on several advancements and design changes expected with the first Intel iBooks, but were for the most part mum on specifically which Intel processors the notebooks would include. (Quite possibly because this spec may be loose and subject to change at the drop of a dime, as today's announcements have proven.)

Based on marketing logic and the fact that Apple's professional and consumer notebooks have long been distinguished by a variation in their processor specs, AppleInsider had derived that the iBooks would utilize single-core Intel Core Solo processors, as outlined in a recent report.

The 1.67GHz Intel Core Duo processor is currently the slowest dual-core chip on Intel's new mobile processor roadmap, meaning that iBooks would have likely had to sport a single core 1.67GHz Core Solo processor to differentiate themselves from a 1.67GHz Core Duo MacBook Pro. Now that Apple has shelved plans for a 1.67GHz Core Duo MacBook Pro, instead bumping this model to 1.83GHz free-of-charge, this may not be the case.

According to Intel's price listing for the Core Solo and Core Duo, Apple stands to save only $32 dollars by opting to include a 1.67GHz Core Solo processor, rather than a 1.67GHz Core Duo, in any of its forthcoming products. The chips reportedly cost $209 and $241, respectively. On the other hand, Intel's 2.16GHz Core Duo processor costs approximately $217 more than the 2.0GHz model, somewhat justifying Apple's $300 upgrade fee from 2.0GHz to 2.16GHz on the MacBook Pro.

Applying the same logic, it's also possible that Apple could pack the 1.67GHz Core Duo into its forthcoming Intel Mac mini desktop systems. However, since the Mac mini is entry-level system, this may be less likely.
post #2 of 74
Hmmmm I don't know... I think Apple would like a bigger performance gap between iBook and Macbook (or whatever they're called) than they used to have with G4's, also not using the dual core in the iBook would leave some room for a 13.3" Macbook Pro.
post #3 of 74
I think Apple would be wise to go with the dual core for the iBook replacement. If the difference is $32 in quantities of 1,000 then it will be a lot less with Apple's volume.

The key is that it can let Apple promote all dual cores for all notebooks. That would have more of an impact in the university student market than K-12. It's like around 1960 when American Airlines advertised big time that they were the first airline to be 100% jets. It would also just about ensure that the Mac mini was a dual.
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post #4 of 74
Quote:
Originally posted by Lorre
Hmmmm I don't know... I think Apple would like a bigger performance gap between iBook and Macbook (or whatever they're called) than they used to have with G4's, also not using the dual core in the iBook would leave some room for a 13.3" Macbook Pro.

Instead, it could be a feature gap between the two lines, but maybe the 1.66 Duo could be the high end iBook, the low end might have a Solo.
post #5 of 74
With the new "MacBook" naming, I don't think Appl intends to be limited to JUST two lines. Like they've done with iPods (mini, photo, shuffle, nano), they can introduce any model that makes sense at the time.

I do think that the bottom-most model will have a Core Solo. If anybody uses Core Solo, why not Apple? (But I can see pressure from multiple companies on Intel to lower Core Solo pricing.)

The iBook IS entry-level, like the Mac Mini. And I think whatever replaces the iBook will have a bottom-end model with Core Solo. However, having some duals in the middle is possible too.

Likewise I expect the cheapest Mini to have Core Solo. But if there's a higher model with Core Duo, that will be one great machine! Practically on a par with an iMac.
post #6 of 74
I disagree.

The 1.6 Core Duo will be used in a 13.3" MacBook Pro that will effectively replace the 12" PowerBook G4.

The Core Solo's will still be used in iBooks [MacBooks?] and probably the mac mini's until 2 Rev's down the road or so. By that time there will be a big enough disparity between the the MacBook Pros and the consumer based notebooks.
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post #7 of 74
A 1.6Ghz Celeron M is $134 and still quicker than the last G4s in the iBook. Apple would shave $160 off the low end MacBook Pro cost.
post #8 of 74
Quote:
Originally posted by aegisdesign
A 1.6Ghz Celeron M is $134 and still quicker than the last G4s in the iBook. Apple would shave $160 off the low end MacBook Pro cost.

doesn't that mean that they have to build a new motherboarddesign for obsolete technology instead of using that of the macbookpro?
i have no clue.

the option of 1,67Ghz core solo for iBook/Mac mini and 1,67Ghz core duo for a 12"powerbook replacement sounds very plausible.
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post #9 of 74
Quote:
Originally posted by gar
doesn't that mean that they have to build a new motherboarddesign for obsolete technology instead of using that of the macbookpro?
i have no clue.

The Celeron M was released the same time as the Core.
post #10 of 74
Quote:
Originally posted by Lorre
Hmmmm I don't know... I think Apple would like a bigger performance gap between iBook and Macbook (or whatever they're called) than they used to have with G4's, also not using the dual core in the iBook would leave some room for a 13.3" Macbook Pro.

I disagree. Apple is now using Intel. That means they have to compete against the notebooks from all the other pc makers. For the price difference of only 30 dollars, most notebooks will use Duo. If Apple adopts Solo for the iBook, then it will look really bad.

This is especially ture because, at this point, software is still being ported. It is very likely that iBook Solo will not be able to compete with pc notebooks, nor with iBook G4 for that matter.

I think Duo Core is a must for the iBook.
post #11 of 74
What's interesting fodder is if Apple doesn't plan on using the DC 1.67GHz in iBooks, why wouldn't they have then offered it as a MacBook Pro configuration to at least lower the entry level into that line?

1.67GHz DC 15-inch MacBook Pro at $1,799 ($1,599 edu) would have been great.

So obviously the 1.67GHz Duo is headed for the iBooks ...er... MacBooks.
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post #12 of 74
i still wouldn't be surprised to see a super-small MacBook nano. see how small a laptop can really get and still be functional and competitive.
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post #13 of 74
aw man.
you guys are right, I suppose. looks like I'll be waiting until next year for a Core Duo iBook. at least it gives me more reason to use this iBook until it's completely ready for an upgrade.
post #14 of 74
my gut feeling is that there will be three lines ...

Mac Book Mini (Black & White)
13.3" Two configs
1.66 Ghz Solo - $999
1.66 Ghz Duo - $1199
Possible integrated graphics...

(for K1-12 students)

Mac Book (Alu Casing???)
13.3" Two Configs
1.67 Ghz Duo - $1299
1.83 Ghz Duo - $1499
(for College/prosumers)

NO 13.3" MacBook Pro!!!

the specs will widen once Merom and other processors available, and old processors will be upgraded and passed on to MacBook and MacBook Mini

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post #15 of 74
There is also a low-voltage 1.5 GHz dual core available. This would be ideal for use in a laptop like the (iBook) MacBook.

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post #16 of 74
Quote:
Originally posted by 1984
There is also a low-voltage 1.5 GHz dual core available. This would be ideal for use in a laptop like the (iBook) MacBook.

Low Voltage CPUs will be much costlier than T version, unless APPLE can get big discount, i do not see that happening...

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post #17 of 74
I have to agree that Apple will go for the low cost Celeron processor. There is no way they are going to give away the house for a $999 iBook. The iBook buyer is cost conscious and it makes much more sense to spend $75 less on the processor, and then charge $150 less to the customer. Apple will sell more if it can get the iBook down to $799 or $899. Spending a lot on the processor part doesn't make sense.

Apple has already shown with the MacBook Pro that they don't intend to compete dollar for dollar with PC Notebooks.

And the Mac Mini will certainly get the cheapest thing. Every dollar counts on a $499 machine.
post #18 of 74
Wow I wish I had read this before I started a thread about it.

I'm envisioning:

ENTRY LEVEL IMACBOOK:
13.3 Inch Wide Screen
1.83 Ghz Core Solo(If it doesn't exist then 1.67)
40 GB Serial ATA 5400 RPM
512MB RAM (expandable to 1.5GB)
SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
64MB ATI Graphics
iSight
Front Row
Remote
$999

HIGH LEVEL IMACBOOK
13.3 Inch Wide Screen
1.67Ghz Core Duo
60 GB Serial ATA 5400 RPM
512MB RAM (expandable to 1.5GB)
Super Drive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
64MB ATI Graphics(BTO 128MB)
iSight
Front Row
Remote
$1299

That would be ideal imo
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post #19 of 74
Quote:
Originally posted by aegisdesign
The Celeron M was released the same time as the Core.

afiak, the yonah based celeron m (celeron m 4xx) hasnt been released aoy.
the dothan-celeron is pretty ok too, but is has crippled power management...

edit:
something just hit me: isnt sse3 required for macos x86?
anyhow, yonah introduces that for the laptop pentiums...
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post #20 of 74
What is the price difference between the current G4s in the iBook and the Core Solo and Core Duo chips? I think that will say alot about what will go into iBook.
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post #21 of 74
Quote:
Originally posted by aegisdesign
The Celeron M was released the same time as the Core.

so?
is it a drop in replacement?
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post #22 of 74
Quote:
Originally posted by gar
so?
is it a drop in replacement?

It doesn't have to be. The differences between the pinout of a Celeron and a Core can be worked around in an afternoon's CAD session
post #23 of 74
Strange that when G3 in iBook everyone complian abt slow processor, now every one asking to tone down the Specs of the new iBook ...

i wish APPLE compare the products againts the PC world not againt with in its product...

i donot see a problem in Duo in MacBook knowing that merom will be available in June and will be droped in MacBook Pro

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post #24 of 74
Quote:
Originally posted by aegisdesign
It doesn't have to be. The differences between the pinout of a Celeron and a Core can be worked around in an afternoon's CAD session

still, the dothan-celeron (celeron-m 3x0) doesnt support sse3.
i dont think apple would release a macintel without rosetta and itunes support.
(and i dont think apple will patch rosetta to support sse2)
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post #25 of 74
...and as i said earlier, the yonah (core solo) based celeron (celeron-m 4xx) with sse3 support (and more goodies) is not officially released.
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post #26 of 74
Quote:
Originally posted by tubgirl
still, the dothan-celeron (celeron-m 3x0) doesnt support sse3.
i dont think apple would release a macintel without rosetta and itunes support.
(and i dont think apple will patch rosetta to support sse2)

Why not? The dev docs mention converting altivec code to sse 2 or 3.
post #27 of 74
Quote:
Originally posted by aegisdesign
Why not? The dev docs mention converting altivec code to sse 2 or 3.

link?

i guess maxxuss, one of the leading hackers on the x86 project, seem to waste a lot of time trying to emulate sse3 on sse2-only capable cpus if this is a non-issue...
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post #28 of 74
Quote:
Originally posted by aegisdesign
The Celeron M was released the same time as the Core.

No it wasn't. A Celeron version of Yonah isn't being released until Q2.
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post #29 of 74
Entry level laptops on the PC side, sometimes priced up to $2000, typically have integrated graphics. Personally, I think Apple may well put the Core Duo in the iBook (or MacBook, whatever it will be called), and differentiate it in the same way PC manufacturers do: integrated graphics.

That will keep the price down, still deliver a lot of performance, while at the same time also differentiating the product lines.

It's what PC makers have been doing for years, so why not Apple? I think that's the way things are going.

Edit: I wonder, is the MacBook Pro the first computer (laptop or desktop) that Apple has shipped with 1GB of graphics? At least the higher end model.
post #30 of 74
Quote:
Originally posted by Robin Hood

Edit: I wonder, is the MacBook Pro the first computer (laptop or desktop) that Apple has shipped with 1GB of graphics? At least the higher end model.

1GB of graphics? WTF are you talking about?

Also, Apple has never done integrated graphics and I wouldn't expect them to start soon. Using the high end X1600 in the MBP's makes it feasible to put something like an X600 in their consumer notebook. I'm not saying they would do this, but it doesn't make sense to have a powerhouse like the MBP with a top of the line GPU and then a consumer laptop with integrated graphics. I really can't see this happening.
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post #31 of 74
I don't see why Apple will do anything with core duo processors in the iBook until the 64 bit laptop cpu (merom) is available from Intel for the MacBook Pro, thus leaving a clear space for the yonah 32 bit dual core cpu in the iBook. Nothing else will really have saimilar performance to current iBook configurations, same for the Mac Mini. Myself i am vastly disappointed with Apple for putting a 32 bit dual core cpu in an iMac would prefer a 64 bit processor (Conroe) in there as the G5 was. Frankly the lack of software available for the MacBook/iMac as well as the current chipsets leaves me waiting and upgrading existing PowerPC hardware until ther software I want is available in universal binary form.
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post #32 of 74
Great insights everyone!
I hope that Apple uses the Dual Core for the MacBook (iBook). A couple of you guys said that Apple might use the dual core for a smaller MacBook Pro. I had heard rumors that they weren't going to make a small Pro notebook. Maybe we will see more choices in the MacBook(ibook) models to suppliment the lack of a small pro notebook.

Someone also said something about aluminum cases for the iBook replacements. Probably not going to happen. The white iBook can be spotted a mile away. People are familiar with it, and so I don't think that they will do away with the white housing. I also doubt that they will build one in black. Just because its cool on the iPod doesn't mean that it will work for the iBook.

And someone posted about a MacBook Nano. Never. Apple's small notebooks are about as small as they want them to be and still retain the amount of functionallity Apple demands. There's my 2 cents. Spend wisely.
post #33 of 74
Quote:
Originally posted by Telomar
No it wasn't. A Celeron version of Yonah isn't being released until Q2.

I didn't claim it was based on the Yonah. There's nothing particularly wrong with the current Dothan based Celeron M.
post #34 of 74
Quote:
Originally posted by Robin Hood
Entry level laptops on the PC side, sometimes priced up to $2000, typically have integrated graphics. Personally, I think Apple may well put the Core Duo in the iBook (or MacBook, whatever it will be called), and differentiate it in the same way PC manufacturers do: integrated graphics.

Depends on if Apple have ported Intel integrated graphics drivers to OSX. So far they've only got ATI and Nvidia.
post #35 of 74
Quote:
Originally posted by shanmugam
i donot see a problem in Duo in MacBook knowing that merom will be available in June and will be droped in MacBook Pro

actually Intel has pushed back the Merom release to the end of the year shipping, and should see it in computers early next year.

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/02...oadmap_feb_06/
post #36 of 74
Quote:
Originally posted by aegisdesign
Depends on if Apple have ported Intel integrated graphics drivers to OSX. So far they've only got ATI and Nvidia.

the developer machines ran OSX and only had intel integrated video by default.
post #37 of 74
I will NOT buy a Celeron ANYthing and do not recommend it to others. Celerons are crap processors IMHO. I only PRAY Apple never puts a Celeron in ANYthing they sell. But there's just no telling really with Apple, and while I'm on the subject Steve Jobs reality distortion field should be really named smoke and mirrors or merely be honest and call it Bull chips. Sory Steve your current intel processors are not enough to make me plunk down money when I can order a 2ghz G4 cpu (gigadesigns.com) upgrade for 400 dollars for a sawtooth tower. Oh and a nice radeon 9800 pro with 256 mb ram for about 260 more. The dollar difference while a slightly slower computer makes up for anything Apple is currently offering from the Intel side due to a lack of software available to run natively. 4 port usb 2 cards are 30-40 dollars.....Further, suppose you get a scrambled directory there is NO disk utility i know of runs under Mac Intel. SAVE your money people Macintel ain't ready for prime time YET.
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post #38 of 74
I personally think that a consumer notebook should come with a 15" screen. For a lot of people this will be their one and only computer and want some more screen space.

I'm wishing for a 15" ibook.
post #39 of 74
Funny, this article basically says what I've been saying in postings for the last month.

It just makes sense, people. Who is going to pay $1299 for an ibook with HALF the performance of a $1499 macbook?
post #40 of 74
Quote:
Originally posted by applewiz
SAVE your money people Macintel ain't ready for prime time YET.

Well, my brand new 20" core duo iMac shure feels and operates like a prime time machine to me 8)
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