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post #121 of 195
Deleted inadvertently rude post.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #122 of 195
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
They may not be our enemy, but they are a concern. There is no doubt in my mind that China wishes to rise to a position in the world that rivals the US economically and militarily. Given that China is a communist nation 5 times our population, that concerns me.

Don't worry, with Bush's illegal alien amnesty and unending thirst for cheap labor our population will equal India's soon, then on to top China!
No more American middle class? No more drinking water for california, florida, texas, and nevada? No more parkland left? Pollution problem worse? Unending sprawl from sea to shining sea?
So what!? Companies will have cheap labor! Isn't that what its all about?

George W. Bush is the worst President in the history of the United States.
And I'm no liberal. This is coming from a Republican.
post #123 of 195
Steve I hear you, a Bush Republican is not by any means a Reagan republican. I also am a former republican, all it took 1 term of Dubya and a blind republican Congress to wake me up. Congrats on leaving that shameful party. They have sold out the American people at every chance they have had. I urge everyone to get registered to vote and lets change this crap.
VOTE OUT ALL INCUMBENTS! Its the only way we can clean up Congress.
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VOTE OUT ALL INCUMBENTS! Its the only way we can clean up Congress.
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post #124 of 195
Quote:
Originally posted by Aurora
Steve I hear you, a Bush Republican is not by any means a Reagan republican. I also am a former republican, all it took 1 term of Dubya and a blind republican Congress to wake me up. Congrats on leaving that shameful party. They have sold out the American people at every chance they have had. I urge everyone to get registered to vote and lets change this crap.

Yup. I am thoroughly disgusted with both Bush (who I didnt vote for because I knew he wasnt worthy to be in the White House in the first place) and Congress. Except for a few diehard true Republicans, the rest of them are jackals and suckups like Arlen Specter. Here folks are saying that the population is growing too fast and there is an outcry against illegal immigration and this yutz wants to increase legal immigration which is already at 1 million per year!

Wake up America!
http://www.fairus.org
post #125 of 195
Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Cuilla
Please elaborate.


I and others have already.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #126 of 195
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
First, sorry about your dog. Mine is 12 too..or will be shortly.




"Sluggish" is a subjective term. I find it odd that you'd use it considering you won't ackowledge my claim that the US economy is "strong, overall". Secondly, can we get that data that you implied existed in the article? I'd like to see what "the poor losing ground" means. I also want to know what "salaries no advancing as fast as they should means.




Economic strife? That's a bit, I don't know...extreme, isn't it? But still...I'll play ball. Answer me this: How, specifically, is GWB responsbile for what you claim was a "sluggish" recovery? I'd like to know what speicific (or "ineffective") policies you take issue with, and what you would have done differently. Secondly, what evidence do you have to support your apparent conclusion that Bush's spending on "stupid wars" had anything to do with what you perceive as a lackluster economy?






Usupported. This is your perception and nearly impossible to prove or back up with any sort of fact.




Hmm...I'm checking, but you still have not answered my question as to what your problems are with the port deal. Anyway....I again will point out that "unnecessary" is term of personal opinion. In addition, why are you using the word "wars" (plural)? If you label Iraq as an unnecessary war...what is the other one...or others?



No it doesn't. Not at all. They can't refuse our security operations, for example. They wouldn't be allowed to refuse entry of goods that we need. There any number of things they can't do. Also, my understand is that the company that would run the ports is a public-private company...a hybrid of sorts.



There it is. Bush is a criminal! He should be prosecuted for what he's done to this country! The bastard! But you know...we'll just ignore everything that the Hate America Left has done over the years to undermine national security, steal our incomes and destroy our economy. They should get off scott free too!




That statement really just shows how unreasonable and polarized you are. I don't agree with everything Bush has done nor Republicans in Congress... certainly. But to call him "bad for the country"...that just shows a lack of thinking and intellectual honesty on your part.

Thanks SDW!

It really is the toughest thing about pet ownership.

Sam was actually 14 ( Dalmation/Lab mix, black and white and about 95 pounds ). Sam was very gentle, and just wanted to be everyone's friend. I got him when he was 2 when an old girl friend of mine and I broke up 12 years ago ( good thing to as she didn't have a clue how to take care of a big dog ).

Anyway, The term " sluggish " was a quote from the article in my local paper. A conclusion from the federal reserve survey.

I haven't had time to look extensively for the data ( as I knew you'd ask ). The survey is called the " Comprehensive Survey of Consumer Finances " and it's done every 3 years. The survey is done by the Federal Reserve.

The article is by Sue Kirchhoff ( Gannette News Service ).
It did add here ( in a local insert ) that locally the area incomes for Polk and Marion counties did rise to be fair.


It also said that from 2001 to 2004 the average family income fell 2.3 percent.

I'll let the rest go for being so understanding about my recent loss.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #127 of 195
Quote:
Originally posted by steve666
Don't worry, with Bush's illegal alien amnesty and unending thirst for cheap labor our population will equal India's soon, then on to top China!
No more American middle class? No more drinking water for california, florida, texas, and nevada? No more parkland left? Pollution problem worse? Unending sprawl from sea to shining sea?
So what!? Companies will have cheap labor! Isn't that what its all about?

George W. Bush is the worst President in the history of the United States.
And I'm no liberal. This is coming from a Republican.

If your point is that we have an immigration problem and that Bush has not done enough to combat it, I agree.

I don't know how you get from that to "no more American middle class" and "no drinking water" and then proceed to blame him for "unending sprawl." That's a bit extreme.

Speaking of extreme: You truly believe that Bush is the worst President in US history. I find that both unjustified and unsupported. On what are you basing this assertion? Is it because you disagree with the Iraq war? Or that you too disagree with him on immigration? Or both? The fact is that while I'm sure you can point to several areas of disagreement with Bush, you'd be hard pressed to justify your statement with any objective facts.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #128 of 195
Quote:
Originally posted by Aurora
Steve I hear you, a Bush Republican is not by any means a Reagan republican. I also am a former republican, all it took 1 term of Dubya and a blind republican Congress to wake me up. Congrats on leaving that shameful party. They have sold out the American people at every chance they have had. I urge everyone to get registered to vote and lets change this crap.


OK, here we are again. They have "sold out the American people.". How? And more importantly...while you as a "Republican" may disagree with the administration on any number of issues, where are you going to go with your vote instead?
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #129 of 195
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
If your point is that we have an immigration problem and that Bush has not done enough to combat it, I agree.

I don't know how you get from that to "no more American middle class" and "no drinking water" and then proceed to blame him for "unending sprawl." That's a bit extreme.

Speaking of extreme: You truly believe that Bush is the worst President in US history. I find that both unjustified and unsupported. On what are you basing this assertion? Is it because you disagree with the Iraq war? Or that you too disagree with him on immigration? Or both? The fact is that while I'm sure you can point to several areas of disagreement with Bush, you'd be hard pressed to justify your statement with any objective facts.

High immigration levels lead to sprawl, dwindling wages for all Americans but especially the poor and middle class, and a few States are in danger of severe water shortages due to uncontrolled population growth.

Why is Bush so bad?
1. Deficit out of control
2. Skewed tax cuts that increase the divide between the haves and have-nots
3. Did not capture Bin laden, let him escape into Pakistan where our 'ally' refuses to capture him.
4. A war in Iraq that not only wasn't necessary, it is actually causing more problems than before.
5. Iran buiding Nuclear Reactors under his watch.
6. Borders as unsecure as before. After 9/11 you'd think Bush would have sealed the borders better. He did nothing because of fear of offending his girlfriend Vicente Fox and because his business buddies did not want to see their supply of cheap labor cut off.
7. A dirty, sleazy admninistration made up of Dick Cheney and other assorted scum who give no bid contracts to companies they have ties to.
8. High gas prices with no end in sight.
9. Relaxed pollution controls.
10. Refuses to site Japan, China, and other nations for currency violations that hurt our industry or whats left of it.
11. Proposes an Arab country with previous ties to the Taliban and money laundering for terrorists, take over ports in the United States. This one is so ridiculous even I couldnt believe that Bush was this big a dink.
12. Homeland Security is a big, disorganized mess.
13. Katrina-mishandled from before the storm even hit.

I'm sure I will come up with more, but those are some of the reasons why Bush is the worst President in the history of the US. That moron didn't deserve to step foot anywhere near the White House. Shame on the Democrats for not being able to nominate someone better than Kerry.
post #130 of 195
Steve forgot about 100 other things, look the president is suppose to represent the people, not the corporations above all else. Only a republican zealot couldnt see this.
We need a new party for sure but the two would never allow that. So we have slim pickens to choose from. Thats why I like it when both partys control parts of govt. One party running the show has shown to show blatant corruption everywhere even to the point of not obeying its own laws with border enforcement and selling out strategic interests in our country to foreign state owned companys for christs sake.
Anyone defending Bush because he 's republican has lost the ability for rational thought. Both partys suck, vote out all the old farts..............everyone of em and outlaw lobiest.
VOTE OUT ALL INCUMBENTS! Its the only way we can clean up Congress.
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VOTE OUT ALL INCUMBENTS! Its the only way we can clean up Congress.
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post #131 of 195
Quote:
Originally posted by steve666
and a few States are in danger of severe water shortages due to uncontrolled population growth.

Where?

Now...to the list...while you certainly have a point on several items...in your rush...you've included some interesting ones:

Quote:
Originally posted by steve666
5. Iran buiding Nuclear Reactors under his watch.

And what do you propose? Should we invade? Bomb them? Sanctions? Install a democracy? What is the solution?

Quote:
Originally posted by steve666
8. High gas prices with no end in sight.

And the POTUS is responsible for this how exactly?

EDIT: In real terms...these are not currently the highest prices we have ever seen. Secondly...as for "no end in sight"...we actually peaked (fall of '05) below the historically highest prices and have come down. Not to where we were say 1-2 years ago...but your statement is somewhat dubious.

Quote:
Originally posted by steve666
11. Proposes an Arab country with previous ties to the Taliban and money laundering for terrorists, take over ports in the United States. This one is so ridiculous even I couldnt believe that Bush was this big a dink.

Ummm...I don't know that Bush actually proposed this business deal. But, that aside, well...the other things in regard to this have already been "debated" for about 4 pages...and it should be clear...this is a mountain from a mole-hill.
post #132 of 195
Quote:
Originally posted by steve666
High immigration levels lead to sprawl, dwindling wages for all Americans but especially the poor and middle class, and a few States are in danger of severe water shortages due to uncontrolled population growth.

Why is Bush so bad?
1. Deficit out of control
2. Skewed tax cuts that increase the divide between the haves and have-nots
3. Did not capture Bin laden, let him escape into Pakistan where our 'ally' refuses to capture him.
4. A war in Iraq that not only wasn't necessary, it is actually causing more problems than before.
5. Iran buiding Nuclear Reactors under his watch.
6. Borders as unsecure as before. After 9/11 you'd think Bush would have sealed the borders better. He did nothing because of fear of offending his girlfriend Vicente Fox and because his business buddies did not want to see their supply of cheap labor cut off.
7. A dirty, sleazy admninistration made up of Dick Cheney and other assorted scum who give no bid contracts to companies they have ties to.
8. High gas prices with no end in sight.
9. Relaxed pollution controls.
10. Refuses to site Japan, China, and other nations for currency violations that hurt our industry or whats left of it.
11. Proposes an Arab country with previous ties to the Taliban and money laundering for terrorists, take over ports in the United States. This one is so ridiculous even I couldnt believe that Bush was this big a dink.
12. Homeland Security is a big, disorganized mess.
13. Katrina-mishandled from before the storm even hit.

I'm sure I will come up with more, but those are some of the reasons why Bush is the worst President in the history of the US. That moron didn't deserve to step foot anywhere near the White House. Shame on the Democrats for not being able to nominate someone better than Kerry.

You're hysterical. It's like jimmac squared.

1. The deficit is decreasing. Oh sure..it's big. But it's not as high as a percentage of GDP as it was during parts of 1980s. I agree we need to eliminate it, but it's not a crisis.

2. If we're going to cut taxes, we have to cut taxes for those that pay the taxes, not those who don't. Ironically, Bush didn't even do this. The lower brackets have been dropped significantly, for example. Furthermore, what is your problem with the so called "rich?" Does someone who makes $200,000 a year not deserve to keep his money? Is it the government's job to redistribute his wealth to the "have nots?" Is the government the ultimate arbitor of social/monetary injustice? Under Bush's cuts, I...a middle income American, saw some substantial tax relief too. Is that wrong?

3. "Let him" escape? Really...can you tell me what he or the military should have done differently? What decision did Bush make that caused him not to be caught?

4. That's your opinion, nothing more. I disagree that invading was unecessary and I certainly disagree that it has caused more problems than it has solved.

5. Ummm...OK. "His watch?" I'm not sure what that means. Are you saying that we have caused them to undertake this action? You understand they've had nuclear facilities for some time, yes? And as for "allowing" Iran to build nukes, what do you propose? Would you support an invasion or massive air strikes? I'm thinking you would not. How do we, how does any President stop Iran?

6. Agreed on immigration. It is my most serious point of disagreement with Bush.

7. That's just ridiculous rhetoric.

8. WOW! hahaha. Let me ask you...what do we do to lower gas prices? And furthermore, you do know we still pay less than half of what the rest of the world pays for gas, yes? Will you support a short-term solution until we no longer power cars on gas...such as drilling in ANWR or The Gulf?

9. Specifics, please.

10. Cite them? I'm not sure what that means.

11. Key word: Previous. Their actions since 9/11 have been positive. This is for the other thread, but I've still heard little reason not to let the deal go through other than UAE taking part in the Israeli boycott. Other than that, there is no concrete reason to disallow the deal. Our banking system is used for terrorism all the time. Maybe we shouldn't be allowed to own our own ports.

12. Uh. OK. How so?

13. Disagree. I think the pre-planning was excellent. The government was just not as prepared as it thought it was. For one thing, no one anticpated the absolutely incompetent response of Nagin and Blanco. As for the federal level, what should Bush have done differently? I'm not sure you understand the President's role in these situations. Other than invoking the Insurrection Act and militarizing New Orleans, I'm not sure what else he was supposed to do. Same goes for FEMA: Their job is to coordinate responses with local officials, not take over.


All I see is vague disagreements that look a lot like Democratic talking points. That certainly doesn't support you assertion that Bush is "the worst President in history."

Edit: I forgot to address your first statements.

I must ask, how did you conclude that high immigration states lead to sprawl? Where are these water shortages you are talking about?
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #133 of 195
This is all a plan by the Republican leadership to allow Republican legislators to distance themselves from The President in preparation for the mid term elections. Republicans need to have something about which they disagree with the Regime so that they can argue against those calling them blind Regime loyalists. They now have the port deal in addition to the border issue. Rove's fat little fingerprints are all over this one.
post #134 of 195
Quote:
Originally posted by Mac on a Mac
This is all a plan by the Republican leadership to allow Republican legislators to distance themselves from The President in preparation for the mid term elections. Republicans need to have something about which they disagree with the Regime so that they can argue against those calling them blind Regime loyalists. They now have the port deal in addition to the border issue. Rove's fat little fingerprints are all over this one.

You could be right about that, actually. It could be one way to combat "Party Fatigue" for the 06 and 08 elections.
I wouldn't put that past Rove.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #135 of 195
Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Cuilla
Where?

Now...to the list...while you certainly have a point on several items...in your rush...you've included some interesting ones:



And what do you propose? Should we invade? Bomb them? Sanctions? Install a democracy? What is the solution?



And the POTUS is responsible for this how exactly?

EDIT: In real terms...these are not currently the highest prices we have ever seen. Secondly...as for "no end in sight"...we actually peaked (fall of '05) below the historically highest prices and have come down. Not to where we were say 1-2 years ago...but your statement is somewhat dubious.



Ummm...I don't know that Bush actually proposed this business deal. But, that aside, well...the other things in regard to this have already been "debated" for about 4 pages...and it should be clear...this is a mountain from a mole-hill.

On Iran, the reactors should have been stopped before they were built with help from shrub's pal, Putin. Now that they are built and with the lunatic now in charge of Iran miltary action will happen, in my opinion. This time it will be a intenational effort.
Bush didnt propose the UAE deal, in fact he was kept out of the loop supposedly by his incompetent scheming staff. You would think he would be hesitant to approve of the deal but he came out in full force in favor of it, no doubt due to the fact that some of his staff actually has ties to the regime. Big surprise, eh?
post #136 of 195
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
You're hysterical. It's like jimmac squared.

1. The deficit is decreasing. Oh sure..it's big. But it's not as high as a percentage of GDP as it was during parts of 1980s. I agree we need to eliminate it, but it's not a crisis.

2. If we're going to cut taxes, we have to cut taxes for those that pay the taxes, not those who don't. Ironically, Bush didn't even do this. The lower brackets have been dropped significantly, for example. Furthermore, what is your problem with the so called "rich?" Does someone who makes $200,000 a year not deserve to keep his money? Is it the government's job to redistribute his wealth to the "have nots?" Is the government the ultimate arbitor of social/monetary injustice? Under Bush's cuts, I...a middle income American, saw some substantial tax relief too. Is that wrong?

3. "Let him" escape? Really...can you tell me what he or the military should have done differently? What decision did Bush make that caused him not to be caught?

4. That's your opinion, nothing more. I disagree that invading was unecessary and I certainly disagree that it has caused more problems than it has solved.

5. Ummm...OK. "His watch?" I'm not sure what that means. Are you saying that we have caused them to undertake this action? You understand they've had nuclear facilities for some time, yes? And as for "allowing" Iran to build nukes, what do you propose? Would you support an invasion or massive air strikes? I'm thinking you would not. How do we, how does any President stop Iran?

6. Agreed on immigration. It is my most serious point of disagreement with Bush.

7. That's just ridiculous rhetoric.

8. WOW! hahaha. Let me ask you...what do we do to lower gas prices? And furthermore, you do know we still pay less than half of what the rest of the world pays for gas, yes? Will you support a short-term solution until we no longer power cars on gas...such as drilling in ANWR or The Gulf?

9. Specifics, please.

10. Cite them? I'm not sure what that means.

11. Key word: Previous. Their actions since 9/11 have been positive. This is for the other thread, but I've still heard little reason not to let the deal go through other than UAE taking part in the Israeli boycott. Other than that, there is no concrete reason to disallow the deal. Our banking system is used for terrorism all the time. Maybe we shouldn't be allowed to own our own ports.

12. Uh. OK. How so?

13. Disagree. I think the pre-planning was excellent. The government was just not as prepared as it thought it was. For one thing, no one anticpated the absolutely incompetent response of Nagin and Blanco. As for the federal level, what should Bush have done differently? I'm not sure you understand the President's role in these situations. Other than invoking the Insurrection Act and militarizing New Orleans, I'm not sure what else he was supposed to do. Same goes for FEMA: Their job is to coordinate responses with local officials, not take over.


All I see is vague disagreements that look a lot like Democratic talking points. That certainly doesn't support you assertion that Bush is "the worst President in history."

Edit: I forgot to address your first statements.

I must ask, how did you conclude that high immigration states lead to sprawl? Where are these water shortages you are talking about?

The deficit is not decreasing. he allowed it to get this big didn't he?
Afghani tribesmen were sent to capture bin laden, not our troops. They allowed him to escape into pakistan, where he now lives amongst our 'allies'.
If you disagree that invading Iraq hasnt caused more problems than it solved than you are just ridiculous. No need for further clarifications.

Look, I'm no liberal. But to just support Bush because liberals put him down is ludicrous. Even his own Party members have come to the conclusion that he's an inept incompetent sleazebag.
From someone who usually votes Republican-George W. Bush is an abject failure as a President.
post #137 of 195
It looks like this story has come to a head.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/03/...ity/index.html

"UAE firm to transfer port operations to 'U.S. entity'"

Dubai gave up. It's just as well.

How many people want to bet that that "US entity" being mentioned is somehow connected to Bush/Cheney/Halliburton?
post #138 of 195
Quote:
Originally posted by tonton
Dubai gave up.

Too bad for them.

Yet another casualty of the American public's irrational fears, ignorance and prejudice.
post #139 of 195
Quote:
Originally posted by tonton

How many people want to bet that that "US entity" being mentioned is somehow connected to Bush/Cheney/Halliburton?

I have a ten pence piece already on that one.
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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post #140 of 195
Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Cuilla
Too bad for them.

Yet another casualty of the American public's irrational fears, ignorance and prejudice.

Actually I think it was a result of common sense, intelligence, and being fed up with shrub's arrogance and incompetence.

Congress actually did something right! I am shocked.
Now, no illegal alien amnesty!
post #141 of 195
Quote:
Originally posted by steve666
Actually I think it was a result of common sense, intelligence

Almost certainly not.
post #142 of 195
Actually, I'm split on this one. I'm leaning towards agreeing with Chris here. That's where my prejudice against Bush gets involved, though. If it wasn't him, I honestly wouldn't question the deal. I'm trying to check myself there, so had I been in Congress (and not hopelessly bound by my party or my constituents) I probably would have approved this deal unless someone gave another reason why not to. UAE is not a bad place. It's heavily business oriented, and would have no interest in terrorism, and would be sure to screen employees better than the US government itself, because if something went wrong here, it would be a disaster for them.

In the end, seeing the opposition, they played the conservative card to maintain their other business interests.
post #143 of 195
Something is very wrong with a party who is selling us less liberty and freedom from one side of their mouth and letting the arab/mexican run our borders and ports. Very Wrong indeed but the American people called them on this. Dirty bastards are selling out this country on everything.
VOTE OUT ALL INCUMBENTS! Its the only way we can clean up Congress.
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VOTE OUT ALL INCUMBENTS! Its the only way we can clean up Congress.
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post #144 of 195
I think Bush was doing the right thing for the wrong reason, while Congress did the wrong thing for the wrong reason.
post #145 of 195
Quote:
Originally posted by Outsider
I think Bush was doing the right thing for the wrong reason, while Congress did the wrong thing for the wrong reason.

Nods.

It's all over now, but I do wonder how different Congress' reaction might have been if the firm in question was, say, Chinese, Indian, Italian or Israeli, to take 4 random examples....
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #146 of 195
Quote:
Originally posted by sammi jo
Nods.

It's all over now, but I do wonder how different Congress' reaction might have been if the firm in question was, say, Chinese, Indian, Italian or Israeli, to take 4 random examples....

Or France or Germany or England (oh...wait)
post #147 of 195
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Cuilla
Too bad for them.

Yet another casualty of the American public's irrational fears, ignorance and prejudice.

Would that be the same irrational fears of being killed by a terrorist, or their ignorance about Saddam's participation in 9/11, or their prejudice against any and all things French?

Just curious. Because that's one rich statement.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #148 of 195
Quote:
Originally posted by Northgate
Would that be the same irrational fears of being killed by a terrorist, or their ignorance about Saddam's participation in 9/11, or their prejudice against any and all things French?

Just curious. Because that's one rich statement.

You know...

1) The fact that you assume that Dubai Ports World's logistical (not security) management of these ports would lead to terrorist attacks in the U.S. reveals both your ignorance and prejudice.

2) The largest, deadliest terrorist attacks in U.S. history (9/11) happened with privately held American companies running the (airport/airline) security.

The irrationality comes from the fact the automatica assumption that anything connected to the Arab/Muslim world would lead to terrorism. These guys want to do business. If this had been a company in Germany (who sold weapons, and such to Saddam & Sons) or France (who sold weapons, and such to Saddam & Sons). I doubt anyone would have blinked an eye. This is pure politics. It looks bad, that's all.
post #149 of 195
Quote:
Originally posted by steve666
The deficit is not decreasing. he allowed it to get this big didn't he?
Afghani tribesmen were sent to capture bin laden, not our troops. They allowed him to escape into pakistan, where he now lives amongst our 'allies'.
If you disagree that invading Iraq hasnt caused more problems than it solved than you are just ridiculous. No need for further clarifications.

Look, I'm no liberal. But to just support Bush because liberals put him down is ludicrous. Even his own Party members have come to the conclusion that he's an inept incompetent sleazebag.
From someone who usually votes Republican-George W. Bush is an abject failure as a President.

1. The deficit is projected to decrease and should be smaller this year than last. In any case, we don't disagree that we need to eliminate it.

2. That was a military decision that you're criticizing solely on the basis of outcome. If he had been caught, you'd be hailing it. Either way, you don't know that only Afghans were sent to capture him. I'd like to see some documentation on that one.

3. Nice argument on Iraq. Very well thought out and you make several good points. [/sarcasm].

4. Even his own party? Why...because they disagree with him on the ports deal?


Your assertion was that Bush will go down as one of the worst Presidents in history. To make that point, you're going to need a lot more than a list of issues on which you disagree.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #150 of 195
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Cuilla
You know...

1) The fact that you assume that Dubai Ports World's logistical (not security) management of these ports would lead to terrorist attacks in the U.S. reveals both your ignorance and prejudice.

2) The largest, deadliest terrorist attacks in U.S. history (9/11) happened with privately held American companies running the (airport/airline) security.

The irrationality comes from the fact the automatica assumption that anything connected to the Arab/Muslim world would lead to terrorism. These guys want to do business. If this had been a company in Germany (who sold weapons, and such to Saddam & Sons) or France (who sold weapons, and such to Saddam & Sons). I doubt anyone would have blinked an eye. This is pure politics. It looks bad, that's all.

That wasn't my point at all, so let me explain it to you.

The Republican party since 9/11 has been ramming fear of terrorism and terrorists down our throat. (If you elect Kerry we're going to get hit again.) So don't get all hot and bothered when the American people don't exactly take to well to the idea of an Arab country running our ports. To claim they're ignorant and/or racist is an outrageous comment from someone who thoroughly supports this administrations and its policies of abusing the Terror Alert system to get votes.

And let's not forget that the deadliest terrorist attack on our nation happened on Bush's watch and shortly after being warned in the presidential daily brief that Bin Laden was determined to do so. I don't give a shit who was in charge of Airline security. It was the Federal government and the National Security Advisor's job to make sure these folks were dealt with BEFORE they took their shot.

You're right. It does look bad. But it's a direct result of this so-called WAR ON TERROR. Who do you think American's believe we're fighting? The Irish?
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #151 of 195
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
Your assertion was that Bush will go down as one of the worst Presidents in history. To make that point, you're going to need a lot more than a list of issues on which you disagree.

No, I think that position is reserved for Clinton. [/sarcasm]
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #152 of 195
Quote:
Originally posted by Northgate
To claim they're ignorant and/or racist is an outrageous comment from someone who thoroughly supports this administrations and its policies of abusing the Terror Alert system to get votes.



Are you saying that I am "someone who thoroughly supports this administrations and its policies of abusing the Terror Alert system to get votes"? Please do elaborate.

Quote:
Originally posted by Northgate
I don't give a shit who was in charge of Airline security.

Because it is not convenient for you.
post #153 of 195
Quote:
Originally posted by Northgate
So don't get all hot and bothered when the American people don't exactly take to well to the idea of an Arab country running our ports.

Not "hot and bothered" at all. A little dismayed...but hey. Just pointing out a pertinent fact that this hysteria was simply about politics...not a real security threat.
post #154 of 195
Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Cuilla


He's referring to when Kerry was up in the polls, the administration would raise the terror alerts to flip it back to Bush's favor. It's a well known, and now admitted, practice in the run up to the 2004 election.
post #155 of 195
Quote:
Originally posted by Outsider
He's referring to when Kerry was up in the polls, the administration would raise the terror alerts to flip it back to Bush's favor. It's a well known, and now admitted, practice in the run up to the 2004 election.

Read the statement I quoted again.
post #156 of 195
Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Cuilla
Read the statement I quoted again.

OK I see the update. These smiley's aren't very indicative as a response. For example:

<-- Chewing gum while thinking hard...

or

<-- I'm having a bad day.

post #157 of 195
Thread Starter 
<= Or having your cake and eating it too.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #158 of 195
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
1. The deficit is projected to decrease and should be smaller this year than last. In any case, we don't disagree that we need to eliminate it.

2. That was a military decision that you're criticizing solely on the basis of outcome. If he had been caught, you'd be hailing it. Either way, you don't know that only Afghans were sent to capture him. I'd like to see some documentation on that one.

3. Nice argument on Iraq. Very well thought out and you make several good points. [/sarcasm].

4. Even his own party? Why...because they disagree with him on the ports deal?


Your assertion was that Bush will go down as one of the worst Presidents in history. To make that point, you're going to need a lot more than a list of issues on which you disagree.

The military already said that they used Afghan tribesmen to smoke out Bin Laden after we had him trapped. This is common knowledge already. They allowed someone else to do what our military should have been doing. The men on the ground said they were shocked at this. The tribesmen allowed Bin Laden to escape into Pakistan, where he now lives amongst our 'allies'.
Bush has an approval rating of 37%. Obviously Republicans can't satnd him either. I'm suprised his approval rating is even that high, the man is a trainwreck of arrogance and ignorance all rolled up into one. Add a dash of incompetence and you have the worst President in the history of the US.
post #159 of 195
Quote:
Originally posted by Outsider
I think Bush was doing the right thing for the wrong reason, while Congress did the wrong thing for the wrong reason.

Bingo!
post #160 of 195
Hillary was a large pusher for the resistance to the sale. Yet another proff of how unfit she is as a presindetial candidate.

For the advocates for an open liberal society there should be no question in this debate. Port facilities operation should be open for everyone who see an interest in such business. This is going to affect the ME elites (The conservative "old royal family"-type, the liberal "How the heck to we develop our countries?"-type and the extreme "Blow up all we don´t like"-type) view on how the west really see their role in the internationale society in a VERY negative way.
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
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"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
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