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Apple unveils Mac mini Core Duo - Page 5

post #161 of 782
Quote:
Originally posted by slughead
I had a miglia. Don't even think about it.

My EyeTV200 is way better and I haven't used it in about 6 months so the software is probably even more snazy.

The miglia brought my DP800 G4 to a halt and the video quality was repulsive. Also, the PCI card I had wouldn't pause TV.

Try reading the post that you quoted again. The miglia TV mini uses the same software as Eye TV.

The miniTV is just a DVB-T receiver/demodulator. It is unlikely to affect picture quality, as the output should just be the bit-stream that was transmitted by the T.V. station*. The thing that will affect picture quality is the software, in this case EyeTV, so the picture should have the same quality as when using EyeTV DVB-T hardware.

* if the receive amplifier is poor, the error-rate would be higher than for a different receiver with better amplifier performance in the same signal conditions.
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post #162 of 782
Quote:
Originally posted by aegisdesign
In the new Mini they seem to be using Dual channel DDR2 667Mhz RAM giving 10.6GB/s bandwidth. Now, if the system is using the same RAM for both VRAM and system RAM, do they still need to copy between system RAM and VRAM? Does it just bypass the Q2DE issues? Any graphics gurus know how this might work?

No copying from system RAM --> to VRAM would be necessary. The CPU can access the VRAM area directly. So the difference this makes to Quartz 2D Extreme is that the pipe from VRAM cache to the Quartz Compositor is reduced from around 30 GB/s in the case of dedicated VRAM, to around 10 GB/s. The GPU will still be doing the "Quartz 2D" job of accepting drawing commands and modifying the bitmaps cached in VRAM, reducing CPU usage relative to standard Quartz 2D.
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post #163 of 782
Not sure if this was answered.. but, does the built in video support 1080p?
post #164 of 782
Quote:
Originally posted by 1984
Apple's own page describing the graphics of the former PowerPC based Mac mini..

"Go ahead, just try to play Halo on a budget PC. Most say theyre good for 2D games only. Thats because an integrated Intel graphics chip steals power from the CPU and siphons off memory from system-level RAM. Youd have to buy an extra card to get the graphics performance of Mac mini, and some cheaper PCs dont even have an open slot to let you add one."


exactly what I was thinking of. While I don't think to any extent the Mac Mini needs dedicated graphics, I think four things.

1. This is VERY un-Apple.
2. The price is too high
3. I do think the GMA950 will outperform the Radeon 9200, running on the PCI-e bus and using DDR2 memory.
4. However, I was counting on a Mac Mini with some kind of dedicated GPU. I was going to buy the Intel Mac Mini as an economy game machine, I could just run mac games / run windows and play windows games on a sleek mac machine.
post #165 of 782
okay, not sure if anyone said this, but this had to be the funniest unintentional humor part of the mac mini/front row part of their website:

Quote:
Make grandma cry with photos from graduation.

yep. what a tagline, huh? "apple products - make your grandparents CRY."

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Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight.
Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight.

-...
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post #166 of 782
Quote:
Originally posted by OS X Guy
Not sure if this was answered.. but, does the built in video support 1080p?

Well, the GPU doesn't decode H.264, if that's what you mean. It can easily output 1080p, but to do that it would have to be fed the data fast enough by the CPU.

The Solo version probably won't be able to do 1080p H.264, whilst the Duo shouldn't have a problem. Both will do 720p no probs.

Also, as someone else pointed out, DVI doesn't have copy protection, so don't expect this box to ever output anything feature length in either 720p or 1080p (including the Duo), unless the media is pirated or the DRM cracked.
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post #167 of 782
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
I'm sold. I'm buying the $799 model.

Why

Gigabit- Do you know what happens when your NAS is connected via 100T? You get a max of 12MBps throughput theoretically and less in real world. The network is the limiting factor here. Gigabit gets rid of that and other network line bottlenecks.

2 memory slots- Finally you can upgrade the memory without removing the orginal memory.

Duo Core processing- Nuff said. You all would have loved a Dual G5 Mac mini. I see nothing negative here at all.

Graphics- I don't plan to game with a sub $800 computer.

Airport/Bluetooth- Wireless support up the yang.

Superdrive- Dual Layer support. What more do I really need?

This is a hot little box for the "right" person. Gamers need not apply. Anyone else can enjoy this box just fine.

I agree..! One thing that nobody is taking in consideration is that there is already a $499 mac mini and that probably it will go down @ least 50 bucks.. About the integrated graphics.. what do you people want? These minis are just the first in the transition, wait a bit & new offering will come.. I do think that there is a need for a Mac in between the mini & the power, maybe is already on the pipes, most will say that the imac is the one, but many don't want to buy all in one, that's why I think that a Mac should come along for those who want the power of a headless iMac, but not as expensive as a PowerMac..

Apple is in transition and is not liketly that will shoot one of there foot in it.. They need to sell "all" their PowerPC machines before give us the same options on the Intel side..I'm very optimistic, very positive about what will come ahead.. There are great PowerPC products and soon there will be their Intel replacements..

Apple is already half way there... only the iBook & PowerMacs are yet to be unveiled..

I'm personaly waiting for the 12" MacBook or Pro.. We'll see what comes next!!!

8)
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post #168 of 782
Something I found........

The GMA 950 chipset is designed to deliver absolutely smokin video playback.

The chipset includes support for regular and HD playback, with the ability to up/down scale video content, as necessary. And it isnt limited to a single stream of HD as it can simultaneously decode and display two streams. It can also handle pretty much any standard HD resolution in both interlaced and progressive scan mode (including 1080p) and it also natively supports both 16:9 and 16:10 aspect ratio displays.
post #169 of 782
I think apple really needs a cheapter media hub that is not a computer. A lot of people don't want to hook their mini up to a tv because it is a computer. Add an iPod dock, cut down on the CPU and a few other things, add a DVR, a few extra TV ports, and sell it with a very extensive front row and no Mac OS X at all. You don't see the xBox running Windows now do you?
post #170 of 782
Freakin' integrated graphics??? This sucks! This forbodes poorly for the Intel version of the iBook (regardless of what they call it)!
post #171 of 782
Actually there really is little demand for computer based media centers at all. Microsoft is trying to create a market. Media Center software will be integrated into Vista because other wise it is just losing money.

Tivo is not a very profitable business and is trying to figure out how to stay alive in the long term. Tivo is actually considering giving away its boxes and charging for the service.

Why would Apple jump headlong with dedicated hardware into a market where no one else is making money?
post #172 of 782
Quote:
Originally posted by TenoBell
The chipset includes support for regular and HD playback, with the ability to up/down scale video content, as necessary. And it isnt limited to a single stream of HD as it can simultaneously decode and display two streams. It can also handle pretty much any standard HD resolution in both interlaced and progressive scan mode (including 1080p) and it also natively supports both 16:9 and 16:10 aspect ratio displays.

You mean it does decode H.264? Or just that it can scale any video up to 1080? do you have a link?
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post #173 of 782
It would be the job of the Intel Core Processor to decode .H264.

http://www.intel.com/products/chipsets/gma950/
post #174 of 782
To all those that did not believe me when I said Apple might use Intel Integrated Graphics, just wanted to say, you can kiss my furry brown behind right here right now. Enjoy your GMA-950 The writing was bloody right there on the wall all this time. I agree though that this means the Mac Mini is not positioned as any sort of gaming device but a living room/ car/ general computing thing. It will not compete against a PS, Xbox, or even a gaming PC... I'm sure Apple has its own ideas what the Mac Mini is supposed to do. Why it isn't a fully fledged DVR in and of itself I have no bloody idea....
post #175 of 782
Quote:
Originally posted by oberpongo
BTW, neither Mac Mini will play back Full HD content for two simple reasons:
1. Apple itself says you need at least a 2Ghz Core Duo for 1080p http://www.apple.com/quicktime/guide...endations.html

2.The DVI-Out-port does not support HDCP Copy Protection. No Hollywood Studio, not even Disney with SJ in the board will allow True HD-Content to get out of any box without Copy-Protection.

That is not true, for sure. A review of the 1.83 model played 1080p just fine.

Not that we will be seeing much 1080p commercial material for a while anyway.

Sony says that they will be encoding Blu-Ray disks with it, but...
post #176 of 782
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
That is not true, for sure. A review of the 1.83 model played 1080p just fine.

Not that we will be seeing much 1080p commercial material for a while anyway.

Sony says that they will be encoding Blu-Ray disks with it, but...

Cite what was played and link to the source.
post #177 of 782
Quote:
Why it isn't a fully fledged DVR in and of itself I have no bloody idea....

Because........

Quote:
Media Center software will be integrated into Vista because other wise it is just loosing money.

Tivo is not a very profitable business and is trying to figure out how to stay alive in the long term. Tivo is actually considering giving away its boxes and charging for the service.

Why would Apple jump headlong with dedicated hardware into a market where no one else is making money?

Apple probably knows if/or when DVR's become mainstream television studios will come down with the full power of the law. Or lobby congress to create the law.
post #178 of 782
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
Building a small, (relatively) inexpensive computer is like coming up with a new recipe. You put some things in, and you have to leave some things out. You can't put everything you like in at the same time.

You've never tasted my cooking...

Adding a BTO video card and 7200RPM HDD would elevate this computer into midrange status.
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post #179 of 782
Intel GMA 950
Radeon 9200


1.6 Gpixel/sec fill rate
1 Gpixel/sec fill rate

4 pipelines
4 pipelines

667MHz DDR2 memory
200MHz DDR memory

minimum 80 megs RAM
32 or 64 megs RAM

400MHz clock speed
250MHz clock speed

Core Image supported
Core Image not supported


Hmm.
post #180 of 782
Quote:
Originally posted by Sladuuch
Intel GMA 950
Radeon 9200

1.6 Gpixel/sec fill rate
1 Gpixel/sec fill rate

4 pipelines
4 pipelines

667MHz DDR2 memory
200MHz DDR memory

minimum 80 megs RAM
32 or 64 megs RAM

400MHz clock speed
250MHz clock speed

Core Image supported
Core Image not supported


Hmm.

While that is true, check this out, from the MAC MINI G4 WEB SITE

Quote:
Lock the Target
Or one 3D game. Go ahead, just try to play Halo on a budget PC. Most say theyre good for 2D games only. Thats because an integrated Intel graphics chip steals power from the CPU and siphons off memory from system-level RAM. Youd have to buy an extra card to get the graphics performance of Mac mini, and some cheaper PCs dont even have an open slot to let you add one.

Thank you way back machine
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post #181 of 782
[Side Thought #23] Maybe this means one can pick up a G4 Mac Mini and Elgato EyeTV200 for about US$500 -- Just nice for my dad, he is considering seriously a standalone DVR thingy for about that price point.
post #182 of 782
That is a bit of irony Apple will have to eat.

But hell we are using Intel processors no irony compares to that.
post #183 of 782
Quote:
Originally posted by TenoBell
That is a bit of irony Apple will have to eat.

But hell we are using Intel processors no irony compares to that.

Apple made fun of the Penteum in 1996, the bit about intel graphics was on the mini site THIS YEAR...things change in 10 years, but 10 weeks?
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post #184 of 782
Look, it is very clear that the Mac Mini is targeted for people that

1. have a PS or XBOX or Nintendo already OR
2. have a PC/Winblows already OR
3. do not intend to game much on their new Mac AND
4. do intend for the Mac Mini to be the centre of their digital hub lifestyle thingy
post #185 of 782
Quote:
Originally posted by a_greer
While that is true, check this out, from the MAC MINI G4 WEB SITE



Thank you way back machine

Sorry, in my opinion, facts beat out marketing. No matter how kool-aidicinous Apple's former promotional material was, the truth is that today the Intel Integrated graphics in the Mini is--depending on who and how you ask, and the truth of the facts you're using--as good or superior as the crap-ass 9200 in the previous Mini.
post #186 of 782
Quote:
Originally posted by sunilraman
Look, it is very clear that the Mac Mini is targeted for people that

1. have a PS or XBOX or Nintendo already OR
2. have a PC/Winblows already OR
3. do not intend to game much on their new Mac AND
4. do intend for the Mac Mini to be the centre of their digital hub lifestyle thingy

True, honestly at this point, I am saving my pennies to get an intel workstation and FCP...and a DV camera

I have outgrowm my Mini, I think it was too small when I got it, but it was affordable, and it still happily chugs along...


It is a gateway drug, and I am hooked.
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post #187 of 782
Quote:
Originally posted by sunilraman
Look, it is very clear that the Mac Mini is targeted for people that

1. have a PS or XBOX or Nintendo already OR
2. have a PC/Winblows already OR
3. do not intend to game much on their new Mac AND
4. do intend for the Mac Mini to be the centre of their digital hub lifestyle thingy

Well, exactly. That's what a lot of people are complaining about. Where's the cheap Mac aimed at people who want to send e-mail, surf the web, and maybe dabble in a bit of iLife stuff? The cheapest Mac mini is too expensive for that because it includes stuff that those people do not need. Note that I'm not saying the mini is overpriced, but that there should be a cheaper model with fewer capabilities.
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post #188 of 782
Originally posted by Mr. H
Well, exactly. That's what a lot of people are complaining about. Where's the cheap Mac aimed at people who want to send e-mail, surf the web, and maybe dabble in a bit of iLife stuff? The cheapest Mac mini is too expensive for that because it includes stuff that those people do not need. Note that I'm not saying the mini is overpriced, but that there should be a cheaper model with fewer capabilities.



i think apple is basically saying, now, we don't want that kind of customer -- too "low value"(low margin) to be worth the support, sales, etc. etc. costs. For the record, I was hoping that at least the $499 price point would be maintained.
post #189 of 782
Wow. On Jan 28 2006 I predicted something pretty similar to this:

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showt...threadid=60460

"1.67 Ghz Core Solo
40 GB Serial ATA 5400 RPM (BTO 60GB HD)
512MB RAM (expandable to 1GB)
SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
64MB ATI Graphics (maybe 128, or BTO 128MB)
$499


1.83Ghz Core Duo (maybe just maybe 2ghz single)
80 GB Serial ATA 5400 RPM (BTO 7200RPM)
512MB RAM (expandable to 1GB)
Super Drive (DL DVD±RW/CD-RW)
128MB ATI Graphics
$699

No mac should have integrated graphics.

Every mac should burn DVD's by now but my 1.83 model has Dual Layer.

No need for 3 models just a HIGH end and a LOW end. Low end for switchers, high end for people that like regular computing but don't need the dual core power or screen of an imac."

I was right about only have 2 models.
I was wrong about the graphics.
Wrong about the price.
Other than that I was pretty close.


Now what is funny is the hypocracy on this forum
I watched you guys say for over a month that the intel ibook and mini would have INTEGRATED GRAPHICS. You are all right. AND NOW YOU ARE MAD. What the hell? If it's what's expected why are you mad.

OH NO OUR 499 PRICE POINT IS GONE APPLE WTF MAN!?

Come on guys, how many of the people here that said that ACUTALLY bought the 499 mini?
Most of you being long time mac users I am doubting not many.

So a 32MB non integrated card was fine but 64MB integrated is not?

Grow up guys this is fine for what it's meant for. I am a switcher and the mac mini I'm using is more than fine for what I do and probably more than fine for what 98% of it's intended market needs to do.

I was gonna upgrade to an iMac, now I'm not so sure, cuz I think apple did a good job on this one.

How I see it:
BASELINE IMAC
17-inch widescreen LCD with 1440x900 resolution
1.83GHz Intel Core Duo with 2MB shared L2 cache
512MB (single SO-DIMM) 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM
160GB Serial ATA hard drive
Slot-load 8x double-layer SuperDrive
ATI Radeon X1600 graphics with 128MB GDDR3 memory
Built-in AirPort Extreme and Bluetooth 2.0
$1499cad

TRICKED OUT MUTHA F*CKIN HIGH END MINI
1.66GHz Intel Core Duo processor
2MB L2 Cache
667MHz Frontside Bus
2GB memory (667MHz DDR2 SDRAM)
120GB Serial ATA hard drive
Double-layer SuperDrive (DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
Built-in AirPort Extreme and Bluetooth 2.0
Apple Remote
$1459

now for people with a keyboard and mouse and a screen the mini is a bad deal?

hmmmmmm...I don't think so.

The only area that matters that iMac beats the mini is graphics. Previous mini owners that were curious about an upgrade path just got it.

As someone that as looking at an iMac the new mini is a good deal since like any mini owner I already have a screen, keyboard, and mouse.

How can you guys hate on that? I might have just saved 40 bucks for a machine not lacking in much other than graphics.
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post #190 of 782
Quote:
Originally posted by a_greer
I have outgrowm my Mini, I think it was too small when I got it, but it was affordable, and it still happily chugs along...


It is a gateway drug, and I am hooked.


Oh, you have not begun to experience our drugs... Bwahahahah... BWAHAHAHAHA!

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post #191 of 782
Quote:
Originally posted by Mr. H
Well, exactly. That's what a lot of people are complaining about. Where's the cheap Mac aimed at people who want to send e-mail, surf the web, and maybe dabble in a bit of iLife stuff? The cheapest Mac mini is too expensive for that because it includes stuff that those people do not need. Note that I'm not saying the mini is overpriced, but that there should be a cheaper model with fewer capabilities.

Come on man it's a 100 bucks more, are you serious about what you just said?
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post #192 of 782
Quote:
Originally posted by TenoBell
Because........



Apple probably knows if/or when DVR's become mainstream television studios will come down with the full power of the law. Or lobby congress to create the law.

Then when HD becomes standard in 2009 (http://gear.ign.com/articles/685/685360p1.html) how will we record TV to watch if they come down on us?
post #193 of 782
Quote:
Originally posted by ecking
Come on man it's a 100 bucks more, are you serious about what you just said?

Yes.

Person "A" is considering switching. All they need is the simple stuff as I outlined before. But they've seen a PC that costs $399. If a Mac Mini costing $499 existed, they may consider the $100 premium worth it for OS X, and iLife, and better physical appearance. But $399 vs $599? Apple looses.

A huge number of people are very price driven. I'm not suggesting for a moment that Apple should be trying to obtain 100% market share by offering every single type of machine currently offered by the myriad PC makers. But what I am asking is what the hell is wrong with giving customers the choice, rather than forcing features upon them that they may not want?
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post #194 of 782
Quote:
Originally posted by Mr. H
Try reading the post that you quoted again. The miglia TV mini uses the same software as Eye TV.

The miniTV is just a DVB-T receiver/demodulator. It is unlikely to affect picture quality, as the output should just be the bit-stream that was transmitted by the T.V. station*. The thing that will affect picture quality is the software, in this case EyeTV, so the picture should have the same quality as when using EyeTV DVB-T hardware.

* if the receive amplifier is poor, the error-rate would be higher than for a different receiver with better amplifier performance in the same signal conditions.

Hrm.. well I'll try it again with the new software.. the card is sitting around here somewhere.
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post #195 of 782
Quote:
Originally posted by TenoBell
The question there would be how much more real performance would be gotten out of this $50 graphics card?

On charts I've seen you get 10% -20% improvement from a slightly better graphics card but you need one significantly more expensive to get significantly better performance.


A cheap geforce 6200 is about 100% better performance, not 10%-20%. I would gladly pay the extra $50 for one. I would even be happy to pay an extra $100 to move up to a bottom tier midrange card, like a radeon x600.
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post #196 of 782
Quote:
Originally posted by Res
A cheap geforce 6200 is about 100% better performance, not 10%-20%. I would gladly pay the extra $50 for one. I would even be happy to pay an extra $100 to move up to a bottom tier midrange card, like a radeon x600.

People have enough of a problem with the price as it is and you want to UP it another 50-100 bucks? lol
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post #197 of 782
Quote:
Originally posted by Mr. H
Yes.

Person "A" is considering switching. All they need is the simple stuff as I outlined before. But they've seen a PC that costs $399. If a Mac Mini costing $499 existed, they may consider the $100 premium worth it for OS X, and iLife, and better physical appearance. But $399 vs $599? Apple looses.

A huge number of people are very price driven. I'm not suggesting for a moment that Apple should be trying to obtain 100% market share by offering every single type of machine currently offered by the myriad PC makers. But what I am asking is what the hell is wrong with giving customers the choice, rather than forcing features upon them that they may not want?

Maybe but I doubt person A is anyone on this site that is complaining. I'm out of the pc loop now though what kind of pc can you get for 399? Is it as good as the baseline mini?
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post #198 of 782
Quote:
Originally posted by slughead
Hrm.. well I'll try it again with the new software.. the card is sitting around here somewhere.

I don't know about the PCI card that you have. That might not use EyeTV, and I'm perfectly willing to take your word that it's crap for you. The TVmini is a small device that looks almost exactly the same as an iPod shuffle. It plugs into a USB 2.0 port and is controlled using EyeTV
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post #199 of 782
Quote:
Then when HD becomes standard in 2009 how will we record TV to watch if they come down on us?

Unfortunately that's the point, they don't really want us to.

Quote:
A cheap geforce 6200 is about 100% better performance, not 10%-20%.

Seeing as the GMA950 is new how can you be so sure of that bold claim.

Doesn't appear the Geforce 6200 is made specifically for HD media playback like the GMA 950.

One advantage of the shared memory is the graphics card is able to access just as much memory as more expensive graphic cards when it is only used to view media.
post #200 of 782
I myself could use a couple minis for my rafting business - so i don't care about gpu whatever - what i want is cheap. i have a powerbook for doing graphics work. maybe have to load up linux on a $300 pc...

ps. i bought a ipod shuffle cause it was cheap even tho i wanted a nano. i am happy. apple needs a cheap computer option for the cheapskates and/or lower income just like they have a super cheap ipod.
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