New MacBook Predications

I'm skeptical about any non-Pro MacBook having a dedicated GPU since the Mac mini announcement. Unless there isn't going to be a 13.3" MacBook Pro...then, who knows...

Voch

i would be surprised if they install 1 gig ram in a $1300 laptop but only 512 mb ram in a $2000 macbook pro.

but i hope they do!

i'd buy one right away!

I agree. The upgrade MacBook will have integrated graphics, same RAM, Core Duo, maybe a bigger HD, and cost $200 more.

The iMac has a PCI-E graphics chipset, but perhaps it's considered a "crossover" machine.

More likely:

$1099
13.3" WD 1152 x 720
1.5 GHz Core Solo (2MB L2 Cache)
60 GB 4200 HDD
512 MB DDR2 RAM
Integrated Graphics with 64mb ram accessible

$1399
13.3" WD 1152 x 720 (possibly 1280 x 800)
1.5 GHz Core Duo (2MB L2 Cache)
80 GB 4200 HDD
512 MB DDR2 RAM
Integrated Graphics with 64mb -> 128mb ram option.

OR

$1099
12" 1024 x 768
1.5 GHz Core Solo (2MB L2 Cache)
60 GB 4200 HDD
512 MB DDR2 RAM
Integrated Graphics with 64mb ram accessible

$1499
13.3" WD 1152 X 720
1.67 GHz Core Duo (2MB L2 Cache)
80 GB 4200 HDD
512 MB DDR2 RAM
Integrated Graphics with 64mb -> 128mb ram option.

I don't see Apple putting high-density displays in consumer laptops any time soon... or ever. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if they did this, for people with poor vision, much like the 12" / 14" models:

$1099
13.3" WD 1152 x 720
...

$1499
15.1" WD 1152 x 720
...

- Xidius

But, on the other hand, the consumer based iMac which is more what the current iBook aligns with has a dedicated GPU. My guess is that they'll have one in the higher end MacBook model.

Good point. Maybe so.


Does such a funky-resolution LCD exist and in any quantity? Sounds like Apple is going to more "normal" LCDs so maybe we'll get the more common 1280x800 (or even more common 1024x768 ).

Has anyone heard anything new about when they are coming? I am sure that I will be happy with whatever specs they make, but I can't wait for them to get here...

My Painfully Realistic Predictions:

$999 MacBook
1.5Ghz Intel Core Solo
13" Widscreen display at 1280x800
512MB memory (667MHz DDR2 SDRAM)
40GB Serial ATA hard drive
Intel GMA950 graphics processor
Combo Drive (DVD-ROM/CD-RW)
Built-in AirPort Extreme and Bluetooth 2.0
Apple Remote


$1,199 MacBook
1.66Ghz Intel Core Solo
13" Widscreen display at 1280x800
512MB memory (667MHz DDR2 SDRAM)
60GB Serial ATA hard drive
Intel GMA950 graphics processor
Slot-load SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
Built-in AirPort Extreme and Bluetooth 2.0
Apple Remote


$1,499 MacBook Pro
1.66Ghz Intel Core Duo
13" Widscreen display at 1280x800
512MB memory (667MHz DDR2 SDRAM)
80GB Serial ATA hard drive
ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 with 128MB GDDR3 memory
Slot-load SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
Built-in AirPort Extreme and Bluetooth 2.0
Apple Remote

This will round out Apple's sub-$2,000 notebooks. All will feature Built-in iSight camera, Front Row, and Magsafe. I originally had a Core Duo in the high-end MacBook for $100 more, but decided that would be too much bang for Apple's buck and would leave the $1,499 MacBook Pro lacking. I feel what I have here is right in line with Apple's typical conservative offerings. (READ THIS PART) If you look at Apple's current MacBook Pro models, you'll find that they carry an $700 premium over their spec-comparitive iMac counterpart. Using that as my basis, and factoring in how much Apple loves money, there cannot be a Core Duo notebook from Apple for less than $1,499 - $700 over the Core Duo Mac Mini.

I think it's painfully apparent that the only computer Apple is interested in really selling is the iMac, and every other Mac they offer is just there to make the iMac look good. The iMac is the only system no one has any price/performance complaints about.

I believe that there will be a lot of pressure on Apple to maintain a $999 price point for the base MacBook, then a $200 bump for a Duo with a bit more features. Also an education price without the remote for the schools.

The part I am interested in right now is the chance that Apple is going to have a new form factor for the MacBook. Seems it has been a while since J Ive has been allowed to deliver something really new in the computer line so it's about time for something dramatic.

Since April 1st is on a Saturday it looks like April 4th is the closest Tuesday to the 30th Anniversary.

I agree..! I have nothing to add..! maybe just one more thing..! HURRY UP!!!

At $1499 I'd jump on that machine in a second (figuratively, of course...I'm too heavy to do that for real ). I'll look at the extra expenditure over my planned non-Pro MacBook purchase as an investment and keep the machine longer. I think it's kinda close to the $1999 15.4" MBP to be realistic, though, so bump it $100 or make the video 64MB or an X1300 or both (I still assume Apple's going to cripple it a-la the 12" PowerBook G4).

If they bump that middle one you mentioned to $1299 and put a Core Duo in it I'd consider that model too.

Voch

Agreed. An Extra $500 would get you a 15.4" 1440x900 screen, 1.83 Core Duo instead of 1.66, ExpressCard/34 and illuminated keyboard, but you're right, the $1,499 probably has to have a crappier graphics card. X1300 with 64MB of VRAM sounds about right. Ideally the $1,999 MacBook Pro would come down in price by $100, but that's not going to happen in the next two months considering they're hardly even shipping yet.

I think apple has more room to play with options in an ibook than a mac mini so I HOPE that they won't be integrated cards

64mb non-integrated for 999 ibook
and
128mb non-integrated for 1299 ibook (but not as good a version that's in the macbook)

That would ideal to me.

I hope so too but now that we know Apple isn't above using Intel Integrated Graphics I find it very unlikely they won't do the same in their entry-level laptops. We can almost guarantee they'll be adding more expensive displays, more expensive processors, an iSight camera and a Front Row remote, so they've got to cut costs somewhere to keep their fatty Mcfat margins up. If Apple sold their Macs at less than 40% above cost, the Earth would implode.

No, still there... there is no god.
I hope Apple will introduce somethink 13"MacBookish with a dedicated GPU.

Or I'll have to shop for a rather large 15"MBP.

That's what Apple WANTS you to buy. Upsell!

Admittedly I don't think I've played a 3D game in a long time (I'm a MacMAME junkie, which is pretty much single-CPU intensive) nor I do 3D modeling and such. So even if an integrated graphics MacBook came out if it was inexpensive and had good battery life (is integrated graphics better for that?), gigabit ethernet, a 5400RPM SATA drive for speed, and a Core Duo processor I'd give it consideration for what I do (Java development, web surfing, occasional Photoshop/GraphicConverter work).

But, of course, if it's just $200-$300 to go from such a machine to one with a reasonable dedicated GPU and another feature bump of some kind I'd probably lay out the extra cash.

My work Dell desktop (Pentium 4 based) has the Intel GMA950 integrated graphics and for what I do on it it's perfect. I haven't tried a 3D game on it though, nor do I think I should...

Hope you're right. If so I'm all over the $1299 ibook. That's almost to good to be true. I bet it only comes with intel IG. Still not to bad.

I'm more worried about form factor rather than performance specifications.

I have the 1st gen white iBook. This is the 5th year of the form factor and it needs revision. It is 1.3" inches thick. If they make the new iBook it 1", it would tempt me over a MBP. If it is 0.8", that's a whole different ball of wax. If it is 1.3" thick, meh, would definitely get the MBP.

If it were painfully realistic, you wouldn't have listed high-density displays. Don't get your hopes up.

- Xidius

Whatever the processor specs or form factor, the new iBook/MacBook needs to have analog digital audio in and out, monitor spanning, and DVI out STANDARD...the time has come.

That's merely the display that both Appleinsider and Think Secret have reported it will have (give or take on the exact resolution). Are you implying that they'll continue to use the low-resolution displays they do now, or that the new displays simply won't be a 1280 pixel varient?

The death of 1024x768 at Apple is long, long, long overdue. It's absolutely mind-numbingly absurd that you currently have to spend $1,999 to get an Apple laptop that has a screen resolution higher than 1024x768. Every other computer manufacturer is offering something in the 1280 pixel range for $999 or less, most of them even being 14" or 15" screens. The only notebooks other than Apple's that still use 1024x768 are Ultra-portables, which Apple does not make.

I agree, but 13.3" widescreens are still expensive, and 12" and 14" are widely used in PC notebooks.
Using the Mac minis prices and specs, I'll suggest the following line-up (changes in bold):

$999 MacBook (plastic enclosure)
1.5/1.67Ghz Intel Core Solo (coming april with Intel's price cuts...)
12" Widescreen display at 1280x800
512MB memory (667MHz DDR2 SDRAM)
60GB Serial ATA hard drive
Intel GMA950 graphics processor
Combo Drive (DVD-ROM/CD-RW)
Built-in AirPort Extreme and Bluetooth 2.0
Apple Remote


$1,299 MacBook (plastic enclosure)
1.66Ghz Intel Core Duo
14" Widescreen display at 1280x800
512MB memory (667MHz DDR2 SDRAM)
80GB Serial ATA hard drive
Intel GMA950 graphics processor
Slot-load SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
Built-in AirPort Extreme and Bluetooth 2.0
Apple Remote

$1,499 MacBook Pro (aluminium enclosure)
1.66Ghz Intel Core Duo
13" Widescreen display at 1280x800
512MB memory (667MHz DDR2 SDRAM)
80GB Serial ATA hard drive
ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 with 128MB GDDR3 memory
Slot-load SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
Built-in AirPort Extreme and Bluetooth 2.0
Apple Remote

Sounds great but do you think they can offer a MBP with those specs at that price? That's basically $500 less than the computer they were just selling for $2000.

Why on earth will someone ever buy a slightly faster 15" MBP for a whopping $700 more?


No, I don't think so.
If a small formfactor aluminium 13" MBP will be introduced it will be more expensive and faster to distinguish it more from the iBook.
-1.83Ghz core duo
-$1.699

I'll be surprised if Apple manages to deliver an iBook with whatever screen for $999 or less.

12" is fine by me; it just has to be a 1280 pixel resolution variant. I just assume the 13.3" widescreen is a given since both Think Secret and Appleinsider agree on it.


The specs and pricing he listed seems very reasonable. It's today's 12" PowerBook with a 1.66Ghz Intel Core Duo, 13" screen, and better graphics card. As Voch pointed out to me however, the graphics card for the $1499 model will probably be something less than what the $1,999 model carries; like an ATI X1300 with 64MB instead of an ATI X1600 with 128MB. I don't foresee a Core Duo in a $1,299 model, however. At least not if the iBook replacements are announced in March/April.

I can see a core duo in a 1299 ibook but it would have to have intel IG IMO. That's more likely than a $1500 MBP with essentially the same specs as todays $2000 MBP. The only difference is 170ghz and 2in of screen space.

Agreed. There's a Core Duo mini so I think a Core Duo non-pro MacBook is doable for $1299. I'd rather have that with integrated graphics than a Core Solo with a dedicated GPU (for what I do anyway).

Voch

If you think that the specs for the $1,499 and current $1,999 model are too similar, look at the 12" PowerBook G4 and the 15" PowerBook G4 Apple was selling side by side until the 15" MacBook Pro announcement:

12"PowerBook G4 $1,499
12.1-inch TFT Display with 1024x768 resolution
1.5GHz PowerPC G4
512MB memory (DDR PC2700 SDRAM)
80GB 5400 rpm hard drive
Slot-load 8x SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
NVIDIA GeForce FX Go5200 graphics card with 64MB DDR memory
Full size keyboard

15" PowerBook G4 $1,999
15.4-inch TFT display with 1440x900 resolution
1.67Ghz PowerPC G4
667MHz frontside bus
512MB (single SO-DIMM) 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM
80GB 5400rpm Serial ATA hard drive
Slot-load SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
ATI Mobility Radeon 9700 (AGP 4X) with 128 MB of DDR SDRAM.

The differences were 3" of screen (and resolution), 167Mhz, and graphics card. Additionally, the 15" carried PCMIA and an illuminated keyboard while the 12" does not. Note that with a $1,499 MacBook Pro with a 1.67Ghz Core Duo processor, you'd be looking at an increase of 160Mhz per core for your extra $500.

You think Apple wants the consumer and pro lines that close moving forward? I think the situation you just outlined is ONE of the reasons Apple switched to intel, to be able to develope product lines with different features and specs. Don't get me wrong, I hope your right. I'll buy the $1500 MBP as fast as I can. I'm just not holding my breath waiting.

I'm confused. Earlier you said you could see a Core Duo in a $1,299 iBook - which I think it highly unlikely at this time - but now you suggest that the specs outlined for a $1499 MacBook Pro are too similar to the $1999 MacBook Pro. Let's break it down. Assuming that Apple won't downgrade any of the features currently offered by them in their $999-$1,499 laptop range, we can deduct that the following features are a shoe-in:

$999 must give you:
512MB RAM
40GB hard drive
Combo Drive
Airport+Bluetooth

$1299 must give you:
512MB RAM
60GB hard drive
Superdrive
Airport+Bluetooth

$1499 must give you:
512MB RAM
80GB 5400 rpm hard drive
Superdrive
Airport+Bluetooth
a graphics card at least competent enough to support Motion

Now, lets presume the rumors of the iBook getting a 13.3" display at 1280x760 are true, since both Appleinsider and Think Secret agree on that point. If a $999 or even just the $1299 iBook has a 13.3" screen, then a $1,499 model must have the equivalent, or greater. So, what elements do we have left to work with to make a range of models from $999 to $1499? Processors and Graphics. We've got three laptops to make and three chips to choose from: 1.5Ghz Core Solo, 1.66Ghz Core Solo, and 1.67Ghz Core Duo. That's all the chips available below what the $1,999 MacBook Pro is using. But the Duo chip alone isn't enough to make a $200 difference; the only other thing we can add to the $1,499 model to make it better than the $999-$1299 models but lesser than the $1999 model is a dedicated graphics card that's sub Radeon X1600 128MB quality, but better than Intel Integrated Graphics quality.

Put it this way. If the $1,499 model doesn't have a 1.67Ghz Core Duo and a dedicated graphics card, it won't be worth $1,499. And if the $1,299 MacBook has a 1.67Ghz Core Duo and a dedicated graphics card, then there won't be anything left to build a $1,499 model with. Now, all this of course goes out the window if Apple doesn't announce them prior to updating the barely-shipping $1,999 and $2,499 MacBook Pro models to better specs, but I think the features I have outlined are very safe. They're the least possible specs Apple has available, without downgrading from what they're currently selling in their PowerPC models.

I'd think Apple would keep the MacBook competitively priced, but if they are going to merge the iBook and 12" PowerBook lines, I'd expect at least one model with a decent graphics card.

Since I have a good desktop already I want a super-portable laptop system, but if it is weak sauce I'll be forced to get a 15" MacBook Pro. Perhaps that's the intention?!

I CAN see an iBook with a core duo coming in at 1299. I think at that price it is likely to have intel IG. This is how I expect Apple to separate the consumer and pro lines, the iMac notwithstanding. IF, and thats a fairly big if, they decide to come in with 13 in MBP to replace the 12in PB I would expect ift to cost $1799 with the specs you outline. I think you need to be careful drawing expectations about the new models based on the old portable line-up. The G4 chips were dirt cheap and that makes it tough going forward to keep those same prices in the new models. Add to that the need for product separation in order to justify the prices. I.E. the more expensive MBP line should have addional features to jusify the higher cost compared to the ibook line . Just my 2 cents.

If they do that, and the current $1999 MacBook Pro remains unchanged, I don't see enough other components left to build something between $1299 and $1999. That's a big hole to leave open, and $1999 is a steep entry price if you want an Apple laptop that actually has a graphics card.


Most definitely. Anyone who expects a dedicated Graphics Card in Apple's $999 - $1299 laptops now is just kidding themselves.


If they put a Core Duo in the $1,299 as you expect, then how is a 13" screen and the inclusion of a graphics card going to be enough to justify a $500 premium?


While I would not be surprised to see Apple increase their sub-$2000 laptops each by $100 (if they getter higher resolution displays), I certainly don't expect them to degrade any of the basic components like RAM, Hard Drives, disc drives, and wireless connectivity. Note that the iBook has not seen an update in 7 months, and the 12" PowerBook hasn't been updated in 13 months! Apple should have more wiggle room for improvements in their $999-$1499 laptop lines than any of their other products or price points.

Gotta agree with Dan on this...

Mac mini = 'built in graphics'

iMac = GPU
MacBook = GPU

I'd hope so anyway... It's one thing to play fast-n-loose with the mini specs but the 'iBook' is a much bigger seller and it'll bite them in the ass if they screw up the specs on that.

Dave

That's true.. TOO LONG!!!

Since when did the iBook run parallel with the mac mini?

iBook = portable iMac
MacBook Pro = portable PowerMac

So hopefully the iBook won't get integrated graphics. I doubt it will get the X1600, so perhaps the X1300, which is still a pretty good card for an iBook grade machine.

Your point is well taken. Time will tell. I still think that you're going to see more separation, in price and in features, between the ibook and MBP lines.

edit: Went to anantech and checked out prices for ATI x1600 gpu. The one listed with 256k of memory is $370. I don't know how much apple pays for the cards with 128k of memory.FWIW link below.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2632

I hope you're right.

Still
I think people should concider prices will be higher than expected.
Ad at least $100 - $200 to your expectations.

Anyway I hope for a 13" MacBook Pro with the same specs as the $1.999 15" MacBook Pro version. (maybe without the ExpressCard/34 slot) If it will be more expensive than $1.799, I buy a 15 incher