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Multiple Finder window selects coming in Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard?

post #1 of 114
Thread Starter 
Descriptions of several features and interfaces not present in shipping versions of Apple Computer's Mac OS X operating system have recently turned up in company patent filings, AppleInsider has discovered.

The filings, which heavily correlate to the Apple's metadata-based Spotlight search technology and appear to be disguised under the names of the company's intellectual property lawyers, were published between July 25, 2005 and Dec. 29, 2005 with the United States Patent and Trademark Office.

Most predominantly, the filings depict several new Mac OS X Finder interface windows with enhanced Spotlight search capabilities and integration. In one example, Apple software engineers describe a Spotlight "configurable pull down menu" that would reside horizontally between the toolbar and the file listing criteria bar in Finder windows.

Without first entering a Spotlight search term, users would presumably be able to use an initial Spotlight criteria pull down menu to select a search location such as "Local Disks" or "Network Volumes." Following the user's selection, the Spotlight pull down interface would then automatically spawn a secondary submenu allowing the user to refine the search by general file types such as "images" or more specific types such as "Photoshop," "Director," or "Excel." Again, users would then be able to further limit their search through a third Spotlight search parameter pull down menu, which would ask for a "last modified date" to be specified, and so forth. The functionality would presumably compliment keyword searches as well.

Within the filings, Apple employees list several alternative Finder interfaces for the enhanced Spotlight integration, described above. Another example anchors a Spotlight "Browse" icon in the Finder window bookmark bar, just above a computer's hard disk icon. In this example, selecting the Browse icon would spawn a new column view in the Finder window with a vertical listing of sub menus to help users refine their searches.

Next-Generation Spotlight Finder Integration?

Another potential Spotlight features described in the filings is a "Recent Searches" option that would appear within the primary Spotlight search interface, located at the far right of the Mac OS X menu bar or in the upper right-hand corner of Finder windows. In the illustrations accompanying the filings, this feature also includes a "Clear Menu" option to erase Spotlight search histories.

Based on the filings, Apple also appear appears to be working on enhancements to Spotlight Smart Folders. One example details "Nested Smart Folders" while another appears to show a Smart Folder that can be assigned an expanded set of Finder view options along the lines of traditional Mac OS X folders.

Next-Generation Spotlight Finder Integration?

Perhaps the most promising revelation to come from the filings is a Spotlight-supported Finder feature that would allow Mac OS X users to perform selections from multiple Finder windows simultaneously when organizing or relocating files.

In one example outlined in the filings, Apple engineers show a total of five Mac OS X files being selected simultaneously from three open Finder windows, in addition to a sixth file that resides on a Mac OS X desktop.

Multiple-Window Finder File Selects?

The filings also describe a new contextual menu feature that would coincide with the enhanced selection capabilities. After making a multi-window file selection, users would be able to trigger a new contextual menu that would present three functions that could be applied to the selected files in a single operation: "Move to Trash," "Create a New Folder and Move Items to New Folder," and "Create a New Folder and Copy Items to New Folder." The filing explains that the move and copy functions may prompt the user to name new folder being created or create a new folder with a default name such as "untitled folder."

Apple is widely expected to reveal the feature set of Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard during its World Wide Developers Conference, which will take place in August. It's possible that some of the features described in these patents and others may make their way into the operating system. While Apple has provided little to no information on Leopard, it has stated that the operating system update would ship in late 2006 or early 2007.
post #2 of 114
All I have to say is that I'm glad that Apple patents are a dime a dozen... they make craploads of patents that they don't use. This is good because it would be compeletly sick if the Finder used all of these different models. I know the Finder sucks now, but I have faith that Apple wouldn't make it that inconsistant.

As for the multi-window selection for moving items to new folders: meh. Folders are dying, I just wish Apple would just get rid of them once and for all.
post #3 of 114
Along with selecting multiple files how about adding to the contextual menu "Add Spotlight Keywords"? I think the same should be implemented in the Save dialog. When you save a file from any application you can add Spotlight metadata to it AND set the label color if you want. Giving a label color when you save a file would be great. One less step.
post #4 of 114
I'm confussed



p.s. I spell bad...
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #5 of 114
Quote:
Originally posted by Ireland
p.s. I spell bad...

If you spell bad how do we not know you meant to say "I smell bad"?
post #6 of 114
Quote:
Originally posted by crees!
Along with selecting multiple files how about adding to the contextual menu "Add Spotlight Keywords"? I think the same should be implemented in the Save dialog. When you save a file from any application you can add Spotlight metadata to it AND set the label color if you want. Giving a label color when you save a file would be great. One less step.

I really like the idea of a color label but have tried to use it and realized it was a little too out of the way... and not so handy. What are some common useful uses of it?
-Shawn
2.4GHz 24" Intel iMac
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-Shawn
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post #7 of 114
Quote:
Originally posted by Ireland
I'm confussed



p.s. I spell bad...


In Safari:

EDIT
-CHECK SPELLING AS YOU TYPE





post #8 of 114
Quote:
Originally posted by iShawn
I really like the idea of a color label but have tried to use it and realized it was a little too out of the way... and not so handy. What are some common useful uses of it?

I use it all the time. It's very usefull if you have many files (in the same folder), and want to make a distinction in them without changing the filename (wich is not always possible).
I only wish you could make your own colors, though.
2x2.7 PowerMac - 1.25 Powerbook - 10.4 Tiger - '65 Mustang
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2x2.7 PowerMac - 1.25 Powerbook - 10.4 Tiger - '65 Mustang
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post #9 of 114
Which reminds me; this was never made clear to me: do users who recently bought a Mac still under warranty get a discount on new versions of OS X?
post #10 of 114
Quote:
Originally posted by ctachme
As for the multi-window selection for moving items to new folders: meh. Folders are dying, I just wish Apple would just get rid of them once and for all.

Yeah, great! How am I supposed to build websites without using directories..?
post #11 of 114
Quote:
Originally posted by jdbartlett
Which reminds me; this was never made clear to me: do users who recently bought a Mac still under warranty get a discount on new versions of OS X?

Topic for another thread really, but no one gets a 'discount' on versions of OS X. Or, alternately, everyone gets the upgrade discount, because you bought the original version with the computer.

There is a program under which, if you buy a Mac, and Apple releases a new major release (10.3 -> 10.4, etc) within (I think) 30 days, you can get that new version for 'shipping and handling' which is generally $30. I have no idea if that conveys. Since it's been a while since 10.4 came out, however, it wouldn't apply at the moment.
My brain is hung like a HORSE!
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My brain is hung like a HORSE!
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post #12 of 114
Quote:
Originally posted by Fotek2001
Yeah, great! How am I supposed to build websites without using directories..?

Don't worry, folders aren't going anywhere.

OTOH, what we think of as static folders are really just a very basic form of metadata anyway so it's not a huge stretch. *shrug*
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My brain is hung like a HORSE!
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post #13 of 114
Quote:
Originally posted by iShawn
I really like the idea of a color label but have tried to use it and realized it was a little too out of the way... and not so handy. What are some common useful uses of it?

well, from a style standpoint, i really hate mac os's labels. it's like they have NEVER gotten it right. the classic style of "staining" icons made them look like garbage and wasn't enough of a visual cue (a blue label on a yellow icon would be a sickly green tint). i was hopeful with panther's labels, but a.) you can't change the name (computer, search for all my yellow files! wtf?!?) b.) you can't change the colors (no huge deal, but it's surprising since you can change the colors in EVERYthing else) and c.) man, those gradients are REALLY distracting. just make it a nice flat color, and i'd be happy.
When you're lovers in a dangerous time,
You're made to feel as if your love's a crime.
Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight.
Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight.

-...
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When you're lovers in a dangerous time,
You're made to feel as if your love's a crime.
Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight.
Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight.

-...
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post #14 of 114
Quote:
Originally posted by ctachme
All I have to say is that I'm glad that Apple patents are a dime a dozen... they make craploads of patents that they don't use. This is good because it would be compeletly sick if the Finder used all of these different models. I know the Finder sucks now, but I have faith that Apple wouldn't make it that inconsistant.

As for the multi-window selection for moving items to new folders: meh. Folders are dying, I just wish Apple would just get rid of them once and for all.

Folders are dying? Keep deluding yourself.
post #15 of 114
Quote:
Originally posted by ctachme
As for the multi-window selection for moving items to new folders: meh. Folders are dying, I just wish Apple would just get rid of them once and for all.

Uh, what?
Proud member of AppleInsider since before the World Wide Web existed.
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Proud member of AppleInsider since before the World Wide Web existed.
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post #16 of 114
Quote:
Originally posted by Ireland
I'm confussed



p.s. I spell bad...

What's that? You smell bad?
post #17 of 114
But seriously...
There's no guarantee that any of this is going to be in anything Apple does.

And if some of it is, they had better continue the spacial finder as well.
post #18 of 114
I'm looking forward to the preview of Leopard at WWDC in August ... can't wait
post #19 of 114
Anyone notice in the illustration it's entitled iFinder ??
post #20 of 114
I'm a web developer and I'd LOVE to see the death of folders!

Yes, I know... hang on a second.

Apple needs to implement a real Database FileSystem, not a db-on-HFS+ like they did for Spotlight in Tiger. Along with this they need to completely replace the Finder. The paragigm of folders works great for catagorization, but is horrendously bad for storing massive amounts of information. How many files does OS X install? The learning curve to understanding the arrangement of the files that make up the OS is extremely steep.

Blah blah blah. I'm tired of arguing this. Apple needs to get off their ass and fix a their filesystem model which is half a decade outdated.
Ridiculous lucky captain rabbit king, lucky captain rabbit king nuggets are for the youth!
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Ridiculous lucky captain rabbit king, lucky captain rabbit king nuggets are for the youth!
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post #21 of 114
i'd like to see the finder completely overhauled.

start from stratch and build the gui from the ground up again. its really not changed much; yet i'm sure there must be a better solution, think different
post #22 of 114
yeah i to would like to see the finder changed.


i dont even use it anymore, spotlight is all i use now.
post #23 of 114
Quote:
Originally posted by Fotek2001
Yeah, great! How am I supposed to build websites without using directories..?

Simple. I store all of my pages/forums/users/etc... in a MySQL database, and then images and support files just rest on the root directory. I'm sure if I was really cunning I could even store the images in the database too... but there's no need for subfolders in websites.

Besides... you can't build websites in the Finder... or did you not notice that there is no FTP support? Apple killing folder's doesn't mean that Cyberduck won't have folders.
post #24 of 114
Quote:
Originally posted by mdriftmeyer
Folders are dying? Keep deluding yourself.

Quote:
Originally posted by CharlesS
Uh, what?

Ever notice how iPhoto and iTunes both have moved away from the folder paradigm? That's because they introduce artifical limitations that have no business existing in a computer's filesystem. I honestly don't know what direction Apple will go with the Finder, but I hope that it is sort of an hybrid of iTunes and iPhoto optimised for file managment. There would be no folders needed in such a system.

Folders were good when there wasn't a robust search and metadata system for organising files. But now that we do have one built into the os, there is no reason to have folders.
post #25 of 114
Quote:
Descriptions of several features and interfaces not present in shipping versions of Apple Computer's Mac OS X operating system have recently turned up in company patent filings, AppleInsider has discovered.

Hrmpf.com has some more details on the patents - there are some weird extra star-trekish metadata analysis things (where your computer uses voice recognition to add extra metdata) and also iBrowse (another spotlight broweser)- interesting- but can Apple make it reality
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post #26 of 114
Quote:
Originally posted by ctachme
Simple. I store all of my pages/forums/users/etc... in a MySQL database, and then images and support files just rest on the root directory. I'm sure if I was really cunning I could even store the images in the database too... but there's no need for subfolders in websites.

Besides... you can't build websites in the Finder... or did you not notice that there is no FTP support? Apple killing folder's doesn't mean that Cyberduck won't have folders.

No matter what there will be SOME sort of categorization present, but hopefully not as complicated. I'd like to see something like Aperture where you have projects in which each image is located. It's so much easier to keep things organized.

If I were designing such a system for OS X, however, there would have to be some other support for metadata which emulates the old style of directory paths. Many applications rely on paths to function (especially UNIX software), so removing that functionality altogether wouldn't be possible.
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Ridiculous lucky captain rabbit king, lucky captain rabbit king nuggets are for the youth!
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post #27 of 114
I for one have been looking for features exactly like those described in the patents. This is borrowing from some basic Windows/Internet Advanced search features, improving upon them and integrating them into finder.

Love it. Can't wait to use it.
post #28 of 114
Quote:
Originally posted by rok
a.) you can't change the name (computer, search for all my yellow files! wtf?!?)

Actually you can. In the Finder's menu bar, go to Finder > Preferences > Labels

I renamed the color orange to "Currently Working On", yellow to "Need to Review", and green to "Ready to Publish". I use this to label all my web pages.
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Mac OS X Leopard vs. Windows Vista
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post #29 of 114
Quote:
Originally posted by hrmpf
Hrmpf.com has some more details on the patents - there are some weird extra star-trekish metadata analysis things (where your computer uses voice recognition to add extra metdata) and also iBrowse (another spotlight broweser)- interesting- but can Apple make it reality

I hope so...I think it's time for Apple to break free from the 1984 file management concepts.

It's time to let metadata take over. With metadata and a decent metadata browsing app (the Finder or iBrowse or whatever) that can easily filter files using the existing metadata (via a nice interface and via voice commands), we'd be in for a treat.
post #30 of 114
If they get rid of the file system, they better get spotlight to work right...half the time spotlight doesn't find what I'm looknig for.
post #31 of 114
Quote:
Originally posted by Michael_Moriarty
Actually you can. In the Finder's menu bar, go to Finder > Preferences > Labels

I renamed the color orange to "Currently Working On", yellow to "Need to Review", and green to "Ready to Publish". I use this to label all my web pages.

*slaps forehead* how did i not notice that?
When you're lovers in a dangerous time,
You're made to feel as if your love's a crime.
Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight.
Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight.

-...
Reply
When you're lovers in a dangerous time,
You're made to feel as if your love's a crime.
Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight.
Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight.

-...
Reply
post #32 of 114
Quote:
Originally posted by bluedalmatian
Anyone notice in the illustration it's entitled iFinder ??

Yes, I noticed, and I quelled an urge to hurl. I'm sick to death of iStuff. iMac & iTunes were about all I could stomach. It's been old since iMovie, and iWork just made me cringe. Thank g*d the apps in it aren't iPages & iKeynote.

Do what you will, but harm none.

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Do what you will, but harm none.

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post #33 of 114
Quote:
Originally posted by whispercb
If they get rid of the file system, they better get spotlight to work right...half the time spotlight doesn't find what I'm looknig for.

You probably just don't know how to use it. I bet 100 bucks you just type stuff in the menu in the top-right corner and cross your fingers.

Making a better interface for Spotlight is a different story...the current Finder interface is terrible...and the Spotlight menu is a hit or miss for most people.
post #34 of 114
Quote:
Originally posted by kim kap sol
I think it's time for Apple to break free from the 1984 file management concepts.

Long overdue, yes.

Only time now to sloppily toss out a few related thoughts, several snipped from several older posts, without coherently reformulating them:

Nowadays I feel like my data is increasingly being held hostage by filesystem-enforced/imposed limitations, with files/folders still being used as the primary method for organizing it.

I think we're rapidly outgrowing the traditional desktop/office metaphor; it doesn't scale well (at least in usability) with larger and ever-increasing collections of files. The filesystem storage model as a data organizing metaphor seems misplaced.

I can imagine a future where the way we currently manage files/folders might look similar to how assembly language now does to most programmers.

One perspective is that the more "personal, isolated" desktop metaphor is being superseded by the more "social, connected" web metaphor. And the newer web metaphor more easily downscales than the older desktop metaphor upscales.

The desktop metaphor can and will continue to serve us, but more alternatives to it are emerging.

I'd like more intuitively sophisticated information managers/organizers as primary interfaces for my data, not more tediously perpetuated file managers/organizers.

Now, off to pre-celebrate my birthday (and Pi Day) by dropping off my iMac G5 at the Apple Store for repair (again) ...
post #35 of 114
Quote:
Originally posted by kim kap sol
You probably just don't know how to use it. I bet 100 bucks you just type stuff in the menu in the top-right corner and cross your fingers.

Making a better interface for Spotlight is a different story...the current Finder interface is terrible...and the Spotlight menu is a hit or miss for most people.

Also, Spotlight IS a file system.

The problem is that the very powerful underlying code is hampered by a terrible interface..Apple also has to open it up further for 3rd party software houses.

The silly "find as you type" concept must go. We need to have options.
post #36 of 114
Quote:
Originally posted by ctachme
Simple. I store all of my pages/forums/users/etc... in a MySQL database, and then images and support files just rest on the root directory. I'm sure if I was really cunning I could even store the images in the database too... but there's no need for subfolders in websites.

Besides... you can't build websites in the Finder... or did you not notice that there is no FTP support? Apple killing folder's doesn't mean that Cyberduck won't have folders.

Yes. Those static web sites truly benefit from all your files being in a MySQL database. Especially when you compete against Apache2 it makes so much sense.
post #37 of 114
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
Also, Spotlight IS a file system.

The problem is that the very powerful underlying code is hampered by a terrible interface..Apple also has to open it up further for 3rd party software houses.

The silly "find as you type" concept must go. We need to have options.

I rarely use Spotlight. In fact, I tested it when Tiger was first installed and moved on.

How come? I categorize and organize my files by areas of interest/study.

My pdf documents are broken down by their subject areas. Then if there is a large folder of similar subjects I'll refine it yet again.
post #38 of 114
Quote:
Originally posted by mdriftmeyer
I rarely use Spotlight. In fact, I tested it when Tiger was first installed and moved on.

How come? I categorize and organize my files by areas of interest/study.

My pdf documents are broken down by their subject areas. Then if there is a large folder of similar subjects I'll refine it yet again.

But if you could just add an "area of interest" metadata tag, you wouldn't need to use folders... and you'd have the added advantage that files inbetween two areas can be tagged with more than one item of metadata. The beauty of metadata is that, unlike Folders where each file can only be in ONE place, files can have any amount of metadata.
post #39 of 114
Quote:
Originally posted by mdriftmeyer
Yes. Those static web sites truly benefit from all your files being in a MySQL database. Especially when you compete against Apache2 it makes so much sense.

I honestly can't tell if you're agreeing with me or disagreeing with me. Are you saying that storing files in databases instead of a filesystem is better or worse?
post #40 of 114
This image shocks:


In fact, I'm fascinated by the idea of no folders. It makes perfect sense (not being sarcastic, although I realize it may sound so).

livatlantis': A Dream.

I can almost picture Steve Jobs on stage, explaining, "Throw anything into OS X, and it will organize it for you. You don't need to remember where you put your photos or movies or documents, it's all in the OS database. Just throw in some information, and boom! - It's there."

"Of course, we know you need folders for some occasions. You need structure to create websites, to build applications... We are not doing away with folders. You can always have folders just like in Tiger.

But the beauty is that they won't be neccessary to use your compter. You won't need to depend on in. Let your computer organize it."

Then there could be a demo of the concept - a 3D world, a massive universe of information (camera floating around millions of icons in black space). Then there's sound of keyboard keys clicking.

A few of those millions of icons suddenly light up, and others fade away. The user is then presented with just the icons he/she is looking for.

And that's what Spotlight will do.
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