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Winner announced in Windows XP on Intel Mac contest

post #1 of 113
Thread Starter 
The contest:

http://windowsxp.onmac.net/The%20Contest.html

The forum:

http://forum.onmac.net/showthread.php?t=64

The photo proof:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/32436196@N00

Looks like (if this is legit and I think it is) 'Narf' is going to be paying the taxes on a cool $12,598 bucks!

Dave
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post #2 of 113
Looks legit. Wonder if he'll post the instructions by tonight. Narf2006 says it requires heavy hacking of the NT Loader. This won't ever be an easy install (well...it'll be like OS X on PCs.)
post #3 of 113
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by kim kap sol
Looks legit. Wonder if he'll post the instructions by tonight.

I'm guessing till he is assured he's getting the cash he isn't gonna say anything... As some have said maybe the contest cash was a BAD idea since so few were willing to work together (and split the cash I guess) and also it kept just about EVERYONE mum on what they were 'up to' in trying to get things to boot...

I for one was looking forward to the contest deadline since then people would be more willing to work as a team to make things work.

Now as for how I feel seeing XP booted on an Intel iMac... I'm not sure... Oh for **ME** it's great - but the unwashed masses... I dunno...

Dave
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post #4 of 113
Looks good, but there are still lingering questions (like the Windows build number showing in the screenshots). Once he does a writeup we'll see what develops.

I still want a virtual machine type setup rather than dual booting, but this is a step in the right direction and will easily help switchers feel confident in the Mac purchase.
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post #5 of 113
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Xool
I still want a virtual machine type setup rather than dual booting, but this is a step in the right direction and will easily help switchers feel confident in the Mac purchase.

I'm with ya 100%

That would truly be the best of both worlds... and this solution would more than likely come from the fine folks at VMware and while 'they can't comment on unreleased software' - A few forum posts by VMware employees seem to give some hope to VMware being supported (to some degree) on OS X.

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post #6 of 113
VM will definitely come eventually. I'd give it another year or 2 and I'm sure we'll have a few VM software to choose from.
post #7 of 113
Thread Starter 
When it rains it pours!

Now we have 2 unique ways (neither proving the 'fix' just yet... But thats what happens when reward / contest money gets in the way...

News: http://osnews.com/story.php?news_id=13965
Site: http://www.osxbook.com/book/bonus/misc/legacyboot/

Given the comments I've seen on WinCentric forums etc I have a feeling Apple will be selling more hardware in the not too distant future. Comments like "if I could boot Windows, I'd buy a mini / macbook pro / iMac" are becoming quite a bit more common...

Dave
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post #8 of 113
Quote:
Originally posted by DaveGee
Given the comments I've seen on WinCentric forums etc I have a feeling Apple will be selling more hardware in the not too distant future. Comments like "if I could boot Windows, I'd buy a mini / macbook pro / iMac" are becoming quite a bit more common...

I know, I've been hearing so much of exactly that, what's sad is how many of these people will be a little surprised to realize their Windows partition has been doing little more than gathering dust for several months.
post #9 of 113
That's really impressive, but are the graphics accellerated? That was my main doubt in this whole thing, because the GPUs seemed to still be using Mac-specific firmware for some reason.
post #10 of 113
Buying a Mac to boot windows is STOOOOOOOOPID!!!
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post #11 of 113
The more narf is dragging his feet on this, the more I think this is a

1. Post pictures of XP booting on Intel-based Mac
2. ...
3. Profit

thing. And that last photo he put up really looks fake.

Maybe narf is an Apple employee trying to drive Mac sales by pretending that booting Windows is close to being a reality.
post #12 of 113
Quote:
Originally posted by MacAficionado
Buying a Mac to boot windows is STOOOOOOOOPID!!!

You don't buy a mac to boot windows but being able to boot windows may actually allow you to buy a mac.
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post #13 of 113
post #14 of 113
Quote:
Originally posted by Telomar
You don't buy a mac to boot windows but being able to boot windows may actually allow you to buy a mac.

Nothing special about iMac booting windows... It's an intel reference board design just like Dell. What would get me excited would be booting OS X on Dell..... I would definately buy a dell labtop to boot OS X, but wouldn't buy iMac to boot windows...... atleast buying a dell coreduo labtop seems to be cheaper than getting the macmini coreduo.
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post #15 of 113
Originally posted by Xool
I still want a virtual machine type setup rather than dual booting, but this is a step in the right direction and will easily help switchers feel confident in the Mac purchase.


i agree 100% too. if this is fully legit this will totally rock.
post #16 of 113
ArsTechnica has just posted a story confirming that "narf" has won the $14,000 prize for person first able to get Windows running successfully on an Intel Mac.

clicks for joy

This is absolutely huge news, I think, because I am sure there are going to be a lot of fence-sitters who will be completely swayed by the opportunity to run all three major operating systems on one machine.
The ultimate in cross-platform computing.
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post #17 of 113
A contest aimed at developing a solution that would allow owner's of Apple Computer's new Intel-based Macs to run both Apple's Mac OS X and Mircrosoft's Windows XP operating systems natively on their computers appears to have a winner.

In a message on the Windows XP on an Intel Mac contest Web site on Wednesday, the contest runners proclaimed that the "Contest has been won," and promised additional updates at a later time.

The winner of the contest, known only as "narf," will take home a cash prize of $13,854, which was accumulated through donations from 100 or so contest supporters and companies such as Digital Express, Delicious Monster, and Uneasy Silence.

All further donations will go into an account to sustain the open source project that will be launched alongside the winning solution, contest runners wrote on the Web site.

One of the rules of the contest was that the winning solution would have to allow for dual-booting -- an installation and boot method that would allow Mac OS X and Windows XP to coexist on the same computer, prompting the user to decide which operating system to boot each time the computer is switched on.

According to an article on ArsTechnica, the solution developed by narf is "fairly complicated." The tech site notes that users will need a Windows PC to complete the process, which is likely to defeat the purpose of the hack for most people. However, anyone with a bit of computer knowledge, access to a PC and 30 minutes to spare, should be able to get the solution working.

The solution will reportedly work on Apple's new iMacs, MacBook Pros and Mac minis.

With the ability to boost Windows XP, Apple computers are now the first machines on which users can boot all three major operating systems without (potentially) violating anyone's EULA, Ars notes. However, the legal implications of modifying the Windows XP boot CD -- which is part of the process -- are not yet known.
post #18 of 113
Quote:
Originally posted by bitemymac
Nothing special about iMac booting windows... It's an intel reference board design just like Dell.

The firmware types aren't the same, which makes it a big deal.

Quote:
atleast buying a dell coreduo [sic] labtop seems to be cheaper than getting the macmini coreduo [sic].

Can you please back this up? Even with special deals & coupon codes, I haven't seen another claim of a core duo Dell for under $1100 or so, and I think that was a base model. Not a bad deal, but not cheaper than a mini duo.

I think there's too much platform bigotry and exclusivism going on here. I don't think it is stupid to want to run Windows. Frankly, there are plenty of apps that don't have a Mac counterpart, and similarly functioning programs aren't necessarily adequate substitutes. Until there is a good substitute that allows Windows software to run within OS X Intel, this would be a necessary first step to make the Mac a viable platform for a lot of people. Something like this would make it easier for some people to keep a fall-back position in case they don't like OS X. OS X is very nice but it still has annoying things that make it hard for people that have used Windows for a decade to get used to.
post #19 of 113
Quote:
Originally posted by MacAficionado
Buying a Mac to boot windows is STOOOOOOOOPID!!!

Well, to put it slightly different:
Purchasing an Apple Computer to run Windows is amazingly
stupid
.

[Maybe in a different computer universum, which i
probably have no clue about, this dual boot obscenity
does make sense. Well, i know that there is some unknown
yet awaiting to be uncovered by myself. In the meanwhile
i'll proudly enjoy my Mac OS X]
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post #20 of 113
Quote:
Originally posted by Placebo
That's really impressive, but are the graphics accellerated? That was my main doubt in this whole thing, because the GPUs seemed to still be using Mac-specific firmware for some reason.

According to Macworld:

... native graphics drivers arent in place yet, for example, so there is limited video performance a blow to Mac gamers who had hoped for a solution that would let them play Windows games on their new Mac hardware.

There is no chance you could play a game using this solution, aside from minesweeper, said Nederkoorn. It looks like a fix for this may be a ways off yet.
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post #21 of 113
Why would anyone want to run the Windows OS natively on a Mac. Running it in Virtual PC would be the only option for me. The reason, those nasty viruses in the Windows world that have been created to wipe your boot blocks and distroy your harddrive. Could you imagine using Windows and have it crash and then realizing it wasn't just your Windows partition wiped out but your entire computer. But I guess some people want to live on the edge.
post #22 of 113
Quote:
Originally posted by DaveGee
Now we have 2 unique ways (neither proving the 'fix' just yet...

Not quite. Bambios is still in progress, they haven't actually got it to work yet, have they?

Quote:
Originally posted by MacAficionado
Buying a Mac to boot windows is STOOOOOOOOPID!!!

Sure. But buying a mac to boot OSX most of the time and boot windows a little bit is smart. Way smarter than wasting the cash on a second machine.

Quote:
Originally posted by kim kap sol
The more narf is dragging his feet on this, the more I think this is a...

You called "fake" AFTER it was announced that his solution was confirmed? What are you, nuts? He didn't drag his feet, he went through the proper channels of verifying the solution with independent testers before releasing it.

Quote:
Originally posted by bitemymac
Nothing special about iMac booting windows...

Well, nothing but saving a few hundred bucks from not buying a PC. I consider that pretty special.

Quote:
Originally posted by JeffDM
Even with special deals & coupon codes, I haven't seen another claim of a core duo Dell for under $1100 or so, and I think that was a base model.

Inspiron E1505 for $749.


FYI, the solution instructions and needed files have been posted on the contest website. Anyone who's interested can give it a shot now.
post #23 of 113
Quote:
Originally posted by journeygaut
Why would anyone want to run the Windows OS natively on a Mac. Running it in Virtual PC would be the only option for me.

Because they want to run apps full speed, which VPC doesn't do. Not to mention that VPC doesn't run AT ALL on the intel boxes right now.

XP and OSX are on different partitions. At this point we don't even know if the XP boot can see the OSX partition, I doubt it. If that's the case, you're completely safe.
post #24 of 113
On a general note, pooling small amount together to form a large reward fo someone coming up with a solution is pretty smart (although some must be very pissed they didn´t come first).

Is this a "normalised" thing? Does it have a name?
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post #25 of 113
Quote:
Originally posted by akheron01
I know, I've been hearing so much of exactly that, what's sad is how many of these people will be a little surprised to realize their Windows partition has been doing little more than gathering dust for several months.

Or, more likely, they'll find out that their OS X partition is gathering dust for months on end. If they need windows, they'll probably end up staying in windows sooner or later, rather then deal with the reboots back and forth.

Esp since they're not going to want to buy all new software to do anything on the mac side of things.
post #26 of 113
Quote:
Because they want to run apps full speed, which VPC doesn't do. Not to mention that VPC doesn't run AT ALL on the intel boxes right now.

Of cource VPC won't run full speed on PowerPC chips...there's a lot of emulation going on there. Hopefully Microsoft will be able to elimiate MOST of the emulation on their VPC solution for the Intel based mac, making it quite speedy indeed.
post #27 of 113
Dual-booting is too time-consuming and complicated for the average user so I don't see if really influencing the average user. I wouldn't want to restart my computer every-time I wanted to use a Windows program and running an emulator isn't ideal either. Most users don't even know what they're running they just want word and msn messenger.
post #28 of 113
Quote:
Originally posted by JeffDM
The firmware types aren't the same, which makes it a big deal.



Can you please back this up? Even with special deals & coupon codes, I haven't seen another claim of a core duo Dell for under $1100 or so, and I think that was a base model. Not a bad deal, but not cheaper than a mini duo.

I think there's too much platform bigotry and exclusivism going on here. I don't think it is stupid to want to run Windows. Frankly, there are plenty of apps that don't have a Mac counterpart, and similarly functioning programs aren't necessarily adequate substitutes. Until there is a good substitute that allows Windows software to run within OS X Intel, this would be a necessary first step to make the Mac a viable platform for a lot of people. Something like this would make it easier for some people to keep a fall-back position in case they don't like OS X. OS X is very nice but it still has annoying things that make it hard for people that have used Windows for a decade to get used to.

Dell coreduo labtop @ 1.66Ghz starts at $699.

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellsto...=19&oc=E1505L1

Well.... firmware difference can be overcome..... heard of xpostfacto runing older 1st generation G3 macs on current OS X.

Anyway, Dell labtop it contains basically same internals, but comes with alot more. With some coupon/sales you can get something with better GPU (currently offers ATI x1400 or Nvidia 7800) and turn this mama into OS X machine.......... and I'll be excited. Of course, it will also boot windows.
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post #29 of 113
Quote:
Originally posted by Anders
On a general note, pooling small amount together to form a large reward fo someone coming up with a solution is pretty smart (although some must be very pissed they didn´t come first).

Is this a "normalised" thing? Does it have a name?

Venture funding.
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post #30 of 113
Quote:
Originally posted by bitemymac
Nothing special about iMac booting windows... It's an intel reference board design just like Dell. What would get me excited would be booting OS X on Dell..... I would definately buy a dell labtop to boot OS X, but wouldn't buy iMac to boot windows...... atleast buying a dell coreduo labtop seems to be cheaper than getting the macmini coreduo.

Well, I'd be more excited about booting OS X on a Tablet PC and having Inkwell work with it.

Unfortunately, I don't see Apple allowing that anytime soon, but we can always dream.
post #31 of 113
Quote:
Originally posted by bitemymac
Nothing special about iMac booting windows... It's an intel reference board design just like Dell. What would get me excited would be booting OS X on Dell..... I would definately buy a dell labtop to boot OS X, but wouldn't buy iMac to boot windows...... atleast buying a dell coreduo labtop seems to be cheaper than getting the macmini coreduo.

Aside from the macintels don't have a bios, and instead have EFI.. the macs don't know they're PCs, in a sense.

this is VERY impressive

As someone said before, a mac running windows simply ALLOWS some people to buy macs.

The opportunity cost of owning a mac just went down:

About to buy a new computer? Can't live without your windows stuff? Why not pay an extra few hundred dollars and get the best OS out there?

Before this, people would say "well I can't live without windows" so they'd effectively have to buy 2 computers.

Given that macs are 50% more expensive than PCs, people who need/want both OS's can now save 40% (100% PC / [150% mac + 100% PC]).

I have a PC and a mac.. maybe my next computer will be a macintel powermac.
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post #32 of 113
Quote:
Originally posted by MacCrazy
Dual-booting is too time-consuming and complicated for the average user so I don't see if really influencing the average user. I wouldn't want to restart my computer every-time I wanted to use a Windows program and running an emulator isn't ideal either. Most users don't even know what they're running they just want word and msn messenger.

While the average user won't be interested, other will.

VPC won't be able to run video at full speed, even on an Intel Mac. Gamers who otherwise want a Mac won't have a problem in dual booting. It really isn't such a big deal.

Many of us on Mac's over the years used to have different System folders on each partition or drive. I still do that. That's what the "Startup" Control Panel was for, and now the icon in System Prefs. If this Win partition, or drive can be accessed from System Prefs, then it is real easy. Even if we have to turn the machine off and on again to access it, it isn't a big deal to get complete Win functioning and speedwhen you need it.
post #33 of 113
Quote:
Originally posted by bitemymac
Dell coreduo labtop @ 1.66Ghz starts at $699.

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellsto...=19&oc=E1505L1

Well.... firmware difference can be overcome..... heard of xpostfacto runing older 1st generation G3 macs on current OS X.

Anyway, Dell labtop it contains basically same internals, but comes with alot more. With some coupon/sales you can get something with better GPU (currently offers ATI x1400 or Nvidia 7800) and turn this mama into OS X machine.......... and I'll be excited. Of course, it will also boot windows.

Not that you were comparing this to the MacBook Pro but just so people don't get the idea that the MacBook Pro is not a good deal.

Add XP pro, 80 Gig hard drive, 1.83GHz processor, increase the screen somewhat and still have lower resolution and dimmer screen, the Inspiron you cited comes with integrated graphics, the price jumps to over $1300. And you're still stuck with integreated graphics, lower resolution screen, no built in isight and whatever else Dell skimped on the get this price down, which includes the pain in the arse $250 rebate.

Please remember, I didn't say you were comparing the twoand I'm not trying to start a big argument, I just wanted to point out that yes the Insperion will meet many people's needs, but that in no way should it detract from the value of the, now dual boot wonder, MacBook Pro.
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post #34 of 113
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
VPC won't be able to run video at full speed, even on an Intel Mac.

Neither does this...
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post #35 of 113
Quote:
Originally posted by CharlesS
Neither does this...

This DOES run at full speed. There are just a few driver issues, most notably for the video card. So they don't have video acceleration working yet, but the apps themselves are running at full speed.

Also, we don't know what speed VPC will run at, there is the possibility that it could run at full speed.
post #36 of 113
I just dont understand why any Mac user would want to boot Windows to begin with!! I mean arent we all Mac users because we dont like the way Windows runs? I know for me, Windows became increasingly frustrating and laborious. Macs run so much smoother and more sisinctly. Not to mention the entire OS is soooo much more stable.

I guess I just dont get the whole interest in the ability to boot Windows.

Also, I thought the contest was interesting at first but I def see where the prize money stopped all the creative conversations that we usually see on these forums about a solution to a particular problem. Like someone else said, it stopped everyone from working together. Was a bad idea imo. ( For everyone other than the winner that is.)

Plus the solution is crazy!!!! I would have thought the solution was going to be relatively easy. Like something we all could do. I dont know about anyone else but I havent owned a PC since WIndows 98 and try not to ever even sit in front of one let alone own one. Seems like the solution that won the money was and is very difficult for the average user. So i just dont see how ANY of this helped any of us.

Only thing prize money does is create greed, and stiffles a community from working together to achieve something. IMO anyway.
post #37 of 113
Quote:
Originally posted by minderbinder
This DOES run at full speed. There are just a few driver issues, most notably for the video card. So they don't have video acceleration working yet, but the apps themselves are running at full speed.

Also, we don't know what speed VPC will run at, there is the possibility that it could run at full speed.

The first part is correct. But, from what I've been reading, VPC for Intel (if it ever does come out) will still have to emulate the video card, as only one OS can have control of that hardware at once. And that would be OS X.

Therefore, while the programs themselves could run at near full speed, any graphics acceleration will still be pretty slow.
post #38 of 113
Quote:
Originally posted by Dean812
I just dont understand why any Mac user would want to boot Windows to begin with!! I mean arent we all Mac users because we dont like the way Windows runs?

Plus the solution is crazy!!!! I would have thought the solution was going to be relatively easy. Like something we all could do. I dont know about anyone else but I havent owned a PC since WIndows 98 and try not to ever even sit in front of one let alone own one. Seems like the solution that won the money was and is very difficult for the average user. So i just dont see how ANY of this helped any of us.

Only thing prize money does is create greed, and stiffles a community from working together to achieve something. IMO anyway.

Funny, it looks like in this case, "stiffling" ended up getting the job done. Now that the prize has been claimed, they're taking it open source and others are pitching in to improve it. If prize money was really so bad, we wouldn't have this solution.

The solution is actually pretty simple, the trickiest part is that you have to create your own install disk. And if you don't care about being legal, if you torrent an install disk it won't be much trickier than installing OSX.

And there's a simple answer why some mac users want to run this. Because there are some apps that aren't available on mac, and we need to run them.


Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
The first part is correct. But, from what I've been reading, VPC for Intel (if it ever does come out) will still have to emulate the video card, as only one OS can have control of that hardware at once. And that would be OS X.

Therefore, while the programs themselves could run at near full speed, any graphics acceleration will still be pretty slow.

What's your source on that? Sounds like it may just be speculation.

Regardless of whether VPC comes out, there will probably be other solutions that allow running windows apps without a reboot (wine, Q, etc).
post #39 of 113
Why would I want to boot windows on my gorgeous 20" iMac? For the odd time I want to play a $2000 (Canadian) Xbox. Seriously.

If the game has a Macintosh version, I'll buy and play that version. If not - and I want to play it, I'll boot Windows. Be that as it may, it'll be a stripped down, barebones Windows that only has what it needs to get the gaming done.

Damn I'm going to have to slipstream a thin (HA!) Windows SP2 when I get home. Now they just have to get the video drivers inline!
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post #40 of 113
Originally posted by jms698
According to Macworld:

... native graphics drivers arent in place yet, for example, so there is limited video performance a blow to Mac gamers who had hoped for a solution that would let them play Windows games on their new Mac hardware.

There is no chance you could play a game using this solution, aside from minesweeper, said Nederkoorn. It looks like a fix for this may be a ways off yet.



FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK
that just blows it for me.
FUCK. and i'm being serious here.
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