or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPod + iTunes + AppleTV › Apple reserves room for changes atop iPod line
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Apple reserves room for changes atop iPod line - Page 2

post #41 of 71
Quote:
Originally posted by Myst

Just in advance, I find the picking apart of a post using quotes to be quite annoying as it implies that you aren't willing to put the effort forward to write a real rebuttal and simple want to target a few last sentences here and there, so please do try not to do that.

Gotta disagree with you there. As an observer in this informative debate, I find it easier to jump into an argument when one's points are individually refuted. For instance, in this post, I was able to clearly illustrate my grievance with your ideas. If I had just indicated this response was directed to you, it would have taken more effort to differentiate between your multiple statements, that, for all intents and purposes, I may agree with.
20" iMac Core Duo
15" MacBook Pro
Reply
20" iMac Core Duo
15" MacBook Pro
Reply
post #42 of 71
Quote:
Originally posted by Myst
Just in advance, I find the picking apart of a post using quotes to be quite annoying as it implies that you aren't willing to put the effort forward to write a real rebuttal and simple want to target a few last sentences here and there, so please do try not to do that.

I really don't see what the problem is. It is better to do that than not quote or quote the complete post, for one, to better understand exactly what comment a person is responding. Discussions can get pretty complex, and I think that reduces the chances of a misunderstanding. If someone is quoting out of context, then I understand that can be an issue, but at least with that sort of quoting, it is easier to backtrack to see if there were any problems.
post #43 of 71
Quote:
Originally posted by Anders
A PDA-like phone would make more sense than incorporating phone functionality into the iPod. But it would have to be just one function of the PDA, not its strongest selling point

Melgross: Do you know Palm is migrating to Windows OS? I think its sad but its a consequense of a non-profitable marked.

Even if the OS of a possible Apple PDA would be build upon X it would most likely only be the low level foundation they shared. The GUI would have to be very different and stuff like pen input would have to be heavily integrated into the OS, like in the newton and VERY unlike the WIndows used for the Origami project.

I'm not sure that they are migrating. They will be coming out with a 700P in a month or two. That's why I changed my mind about buying the HTC 6700 Windows Mobikle 5 phone. They are making good profits on the Treo 650. But, in order to get into parts of the corporate market, they felt the need for a Windows product as well.

Remember that Palm no longer owns the OS.

That's the major reason why I don't think they will buy Palm. They could have bought the OS before Access did, but didn't.
post #44 of 71
Myst: I am not going to respond to the idea of an iPhone. We simply disagree about that. I think I have made my points and the reasoning for them clear and it is for everyone to judge if I made reasonable arguments. I do however have to comment your last part.

Quote:
Originally posted by Myst
Just in advance, I find the picking apart of a post using quotes to be quite annoying as it implies that you aren't willing to put the effort forward to write a real rebuttal and simple want to target a few last sentences here and there, so please do try not to do that.

This is just too far out I quote everything you said, taking each argument one by one. I left none of what you said out, so you just cannot say I am "picking apart" or "targeting a few sentences here and there".

I would be hard pressed to come up with a more fair way to rebut your post. I know you want to make a compelling case for the iPhone. But each step has to make sense for it to work, just like the original iPod ("Is there an untapped marked?", "Can we add anything meaningful the products already out there?", "Will we need coorporation off other players?", "Through what channels are we going to sell it?", "Could our money be spent more wisely?"). Thats why it is most logic to look at each step of your reasoning and not deal with it as a whole.

Had I commented on your post as a whole it would have been some variant of "I don´t think its a good idea" or "this will never work" without providing any real arguments for it. Then you would have something to complain about.

Therefore I would have liked you to take each part of my arguments and made compelling counter arguments. Then this would be an informed debate. Very central to this is how you really see the iPhone. Is it a real mobile phone made inhouse by Apple, is it a Apple branded phone made by one of the large players on the marked or is it a wireless handset to VoIP. Each of those solutions are VERY different and have its own problem and benefits. It would simplify the discussion if you told us how exactly you see the iPhone and not just pick the good parts of each solution. You could also clarify if you think it will be PDA like or not. In one post you say it won´t and in the next you suggest it could. Its a bit hard to discuss when the arguments are made out of pudding.
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
Reply
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
Reply
post #45 of 71
To Jeff and Animal Farm,

I found that he wasn't offering up anything, merely throwing out counter arguments that were merely the opposite of the quote. He wasn't exactly adding to his points and building the conversation in way that would have been possible if he had of analyzed the big picture and went from there.

I may not post much on AI, but I am aware it's sort of common to do that, I just didn't get where he was coming from and was looking to him actually writing what he thought, instead of counter points, as a better way to understand his overall opinion. I might be missing the obvious here.

P.S. I think I'll post here more as the folks at MacRumors seem to cluster and not have as much "discussion"'

---

Well, actually, I will first say that the lack of correlation between my post is because my opinion has changed by reading other people's thoughts. I guess why I should make clear is my opinion on what the iPod phone should be (So I'll make a list )
  • Focus still on the media
    (First big thing) [Music, Photos, Movies]
  • iPod Simplicity Remains
    [Maybe even a dual mode idea (one iPod one more complex with PDAness)]
  • PDA like abilities
    This entails the basics but more 3rd party software support
  • Phone (of course)
    Through VOIP or cell, I really don't know or care. I support whichever works best.

Why should Apple enter the market? What isn't tapped? The fact remains that the PDA market is a mess, and the Cellphone market is undefinable beyond the RAZR and that other new one (the new think motorola). The PDA market is trying to take the cellphone market and has failed. I think the iPod could evolve over the next generations into the best of all those worlds. Hell, it wouldn't be that hard if Apple got carriers; personally I can't see them running into problems since their brand is so strong and the carriers would love more subscriptions.

I see it having PDA-like functions, but not in such a clumsy way as most PDAs have morphed into. Jamming windows onto a micro-tablet (I guess Pocket PC) is a stupid idea. The OS needs to be unique. I think Apple could pull off making the best OS for these devices. It would be another extension of the great halo effect by bringing the Mac experience to the iPod.

P.S. I guess somethings I've said came out a bit wrong in terms of tone and what not, but I find this to be a respectable discussion as a whole, I just have had trouble putting together your perspective.
I read a lot here, post little.

--------
2.4GHz MacBook Pro
8GB iPod Nano
60GB 5G iPod
Reply
I read a lot here, post little.

--------
2.4GHz MacBook Pro
8GB iPod Nano
60GB 5G iPod
Reply
post #46 of 71
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
I'm not sure that they are migrating. They will be coming out with a 700P in a month or two. That's why I changed my mind about buying the HTC 6700 Windows Mobikle 5 phone. They are making good profits on the Treo 650. But, in order to get into parts of the corporate market, they felt the need for a Windows product as well.

I am pretty sure that Palm announced the migration to Pocket PC last year for Treos. But I surely hope you are right.
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
Reply
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
Reply
post #47 of 71
Quote:
Originally posted by Anders
I am pretty sure that Palm announced the migration to Pocket PC last year for Treos. But I surely hope you are right.

It isn't migrate. It's "adding to". It's an additional product. As it didn't get great reviews, we don't know how well it will sell either.
post #48 of 71
I'm sorry... it's like nails on a chalk board, it's market and not "marked"
Again, i'm sorry.


Quote:
"This is just too far out I quote everything you said, taking each argument one by one. I left none of what you said out, so you just cannot say I am "picking apart" or "targeting a few sentences here and there".

I would be hard pressed to come up with a more fair way to rebut your post. I know you want to make a compelling case for the iPhone. But each step has to make sense for it to work, just like the original iPod ("Is there an untapped marked?",
post #49 of 71
Quote:
Originally posted by Zoso2
I'm sorry... it's like nails on a chalk board, it's market and not "marked"
Again, i'm sorry.

Perhaps you shouldn't be criticizing our moderator your very first post?
post #50 of 71
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
Perhaps you shouldn't be criticizing our moderator your very first post?

That's why he changed his name....so who is he REALLY?
The Mother of all flip-flops!!
Support our troops by educating yourself and being a responsible voter. Democracy and Capitalism REQUIRE Intelligence and Wisdom if they are to be worth a damn beyond...
Reply
The Mother of all flip-flops!!
Support our troops by educating yourself and being a responsible voter. Democracy and Capitalism REQUIRE Intelligence and Wisdom if they are to be worth a damn beyond...
Reply
post #51 of 71
The main thing Apple would bring to an iPhone would be a new user interface. But the cellular market is truly walled gardens, unlike the broadband market, and even more so, as that market consolidates into a few major players. Yet Apple is moving in a way that could someday threaten the cable TV market (another walled gardens market). Based on this, I think if and when WiMax and other wireless MAN technologies get going, I could see Apple jumping in to mobile communications.

I believe Apple already has a set of criteria that would trigger it entering the mobile comm market (known only to very few inside Apple). Some criteria involve defense (protect the iPod/iTunes/iTMS). Another would be that all the technology is ready to enable a product that meets a threshold level of value to the consumer, including cost. For example, the iPod started life with "1000 songs in your pocket" for $400 and it's rumored that the "iPod video" will start with "100 movies in your pocket" (hopefully, for no more than $400). There's likely some such phrase and cost that captures a threshold value for an iPhone. Other parts: the size of the nano makes it seem possible to add phone capability and still be smaller than an iPod. The rumored touchscreen/clickwheel could enable phone keys to appear). But I think a viable alternative to cellular is the key piece.

Anyway, some other related things:
- Apple has trademarked the term "Mobile Me". What will that turn out to be?
- Apple does have iChat. Where does it lead to?
"you will know the truth, and the truth will
set you free."
Reply
"you will know the truth, and the truth will
set you free."
Reply
post #52 of 71
There needs to be a new phone manufacturer. SOMEONE needs to invent a phone operating system that is user intuitive. Each different OS from each different company has its flaws and its difficulties. It is either too difficult to reach different parts of the system, or the system is so segmented in its quest to be easy that the different ability are lost on different sub-menus.
Also, there are an absurd amount of buttons on a phone that rarely do anything predictable and are not customizable enough to allow you to do what you want. Also, the damned internet buttons are ridiculously annoying to anyone who does not want to pay for GPRS. I do not want a button that costs me money to press, much less the two (Internet and Email) that I have on my RAZR.
Dfn Eupfhoria: the joy of playing the 21st level of marathon.
Reply
Dfn Eupfhoria: the joy of playing the 21st level of marathon.
Reply
post #53 of 71
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
Perhaps you shouldn't be criticizing our moderator your very first post?

You're right... [spanks himself]
In my defense, I did say I was sorry.
post #54 of 71
Quote:
Originally posted by Zoso2
You're right... [spanks himself]
In my defense, I did say I was sorry.

Out of curiosity, when will you start contributing beyond 2 liners?

-----

A bit hypocritical, but a short question from me:

What would you all (don't want to say "ya'll") prefer; a separate iPhone/PDA, a PDA, a iPhone, or a cluster of it all in the iPod?
I read a lot here, post little.

--------
2.4GHz MacBook Pro
8GB iPod Nano
60GB 5G iPod
Reply
I read a lot here, post little.

--------
2.4GHz MacBook Pro
8GB iPod Nano
60GB 5G iPod
Reply
post #55 of 71
Quote:
Originally posted by Zoso2
I'm sorry... it's like nails on a chalk board, it's market and not "marked"
Again, i'm sorry.

OMG U R SOOO banned j/k

Here in a fucking dreamworld (and zenofobe paradise) english is only our second language. In dreamworld-speak the word for "market" is actually "marked". Words spelled almost the same causes most of my english misspellings (that and the grammar. But I have given up on correcting that).
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
Reply
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
Reply
post #56 of 71
Quote:
Originally posted by Myst
A bit hypocritical, but a short question from me:

What would you all (don't want to say "ya'll") prefer; a separate iPhone/PDA, a PDA, a iPhone, or a cluster of it all in the iPod?

I would prefer an advanced media player with bluetooth that would interact with my phone in a limited way: When my phone rang it would stop playing and give me the choice to channel the call through my iPod headset and call up via the address bookin the iPod. Simple and powerful and no need for keypad.
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
Reply
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
Reply
post #57 of 71
Quote:
Originally posted by Myst
Out of curiosity, when will you start contributing beyond 2 liners?

-----

A bit hypocritical, but a short question from me:

What would you all (don't want to say "ya'll") prefer; a separate iPhone/PDA, a PDA, a iPhone, or a cluster of it all in the iPod?

iPhone/PDA

Palm got it pretty well . The implementation on the individual phones leaves something to be desired.

The Treo, for example has no built-in Graffiti. In a short time I became adept with that, and so has everyone else I know who uses Palm on a regular basis.

But, the tiny keys are horrible, and there are other problems the phone has.

Sadly, no one else has come up with a new Palm phone, though Treo will be coming up with a 700p shortly. The other manufacturers have just continued the older models. My Samsung i330, is pretty obsolete. It uses OS 3.53.

That's why I would like to see Apple come out with an OS X Lite phone. If they did this right, it would take many Palm users with it. Some Windows Mobile people would come as well, and many Mac and iPod users would move.

It would end up with the largest share of software and games. If Apple did email well, it could even give Blackberry a run for the money.
post #58 of 71
Quote:
Originally posted by krispie
Why would anyone want to watch a movie on a 3" or 4" screen?

I said the same thing about wristwatches back in the late 18th century. Why would anyone want to tell the time on a tiny little clock-face that's an arm's length away when there's a perfectly good giant clock-face in town square!

And then, a few years ago, when they started putting LCD screens on trans-atlantic flights, I said "Who's gonna want to watch a movie on a tiny little 6" screen that's only a foot in front of your face!"

I've never, ever understood your question. I always suspect that people who ask it imagine hordes of video iPod owners placing their iPods on the hearth, trying to watch a movie on it from across the room.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Reply
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Reply
post #59 of 71
post #60 of 71
Quote:
Originally posted by Myst
Out of curiosity, when will you start contributing beyond 2 liners?

-----

A bit hypocritical, but a short question from me:

What would you all (don't want to say "ya'll") prefer; a separate iPhone/PDA, a PDA, a iPhone, or a cluster of it all in the iPod?

Didn't mean to irritate you, I'm mostly an observer of this great site and respect the opinions of the various posters.

Anders, thanks for being lenient this time. I will try to post something that is relevant in the future. In the mean time I will continue being an observer and refrain from correcting spelling mistakes [tail between the legs]

More than two lines!!
post #61 of 71
Quote:
Originally posted by European guy

Very nice. The equipment looks like Quad. Is that what you like?

For those who are laughing, yes, I know it's a computer mock.
post #62 of 71
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
Very nice. The equipment looks like Quad. Is that what you like?

For those who are laughing, yes, I know it's a computer mock.

This is my study setup.
I use SketchUp mock-ups with my flat floor plan to move things around.


Speakers- Quad 12 L
Amp- Musical Fidelity X-150
DAC- Musical Fidelity X-DAC v3
Tube- Musical Fidelity Uotput Buffer V3
Power- Musical Fidelity X-PSU

Upgrading my speakers to ProAc, now ...
There's a Mac mini there, but I still don't know what to do with it, since the Airport Express will be feeding the DAC...
Maybe a Plasma on the wall behind to watch iTunes plugins...
post #63 of 71
Another thought about iPod changes...

Could Apple introduce a new special edition iPod that shares the 60 GB range with the current b/w 60GB iPod?
post #64 of 71
Quote:
Originally posted by European guy
This is my study setup.
I use SketchUp mock-ups with my flat floor plan to move things around.


Speakers- Quad 12 L
Amp- Musical Fidelity X-150
DAC- Musical Fidelity X-DAC v3
Tube- Musical Fidelity Uotput Buffer V3
Power- Musical Fidelity X-PSU

Upgrading my speakers to ProAc, now ...
There's a Mac mini there, but I still don't know what to do with it, since the Airport Express will be feeding the DAC...
Maybe a Plasma on the wall behind to watch iTunes plugins...

Very nice.
post #65 of 71
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
Very nice.

Thanks.
I just got the ProAc Response 1 SC. I have never , ever heard a sound like this.
Some audiophile magazines have rated these "the best monitors in the world".
They are something very, very special. I love them.

The sound coming out my iTunes library is amazing. The DAC really makes a difference with 128 kbps files. The sound-stage is enormous.

Now. when I listen to the same tune with the iPod, although fed through the Valve Buffer, it still is not the same.

Which brings me to topic.
Apple really needs to have digital out ( optical or coax through Dock) in the iPod.
Listening to Apple Lossless or higher bitrate is pure heaven.Trust me.

PS: I also design my audio furniture and have it made in the best woods.
Here are some samples...They are full of holes to accommodate the Nordost cabling..8)
post #66 of 71
Quote:
Originally posted by European guy
Thanks.
I just got the ProAc Response 1 SC. I have never , ever heard a sound like this.
Some audiophile magazines have rated these "the best monitors in the world".
They are something very, very special. I love them.

The sound coming out my iTunes library is amazing. The DAC really makes a difference with 128 kbps files. The sound-stage is enormous.

Now. when I listen to the same tune with the iPod, although fed through the Valve Buffer, it still is not the same.

Which brings me to topic.
Apple really needs to have digital out ( optical or coax through Dock) in the iPod.
Listening to Apple Lossless or higher bitrate is pure heaven.Trust me.

PS: I also design my audio furniture and have it made in the best woods.
Here are some samples...They are full of holes to accommodate the Nordost cabling..8)

Nordost. Just be careful not to bend that stuff when you pull it through. soldering to that is always a pain, too.
post #67 of 71
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
Nordost. Just be careful not to bend that stuff when you pull it through. soldering to that is always a pain, too.

Bend ? Sure. I bended and rebended the Flat Nordost cable everytime.
They are supposed to sustain more than a thousand bends and behave as new.
I have 90 degrees bends below carpet , too.
post #68 of 71
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
Nordost. Just be careful not to bend that stuff when you pull it through. soldering to that is always a pain, too.

Bend ? Sure. I bended and rebended the Flat Nordost cable everytime.
They are suposed to sustain more than a thousand bends and behave as new.
I have 90 degrees bends below carpet , too.
post #69 of 71
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
Nordost. Just be careful not to bend that stuff when you pull it through. soldering to that is always a pain, too.

Bend ? Sure. I bent and re-bent the Flat Nordost cable everytime.
They are supposed to sustain more than a thousand bends and behave as new.
I have 90 degrees bends below carpet , too.

PS: Huge spelling errors corrected.

post #70 of 71
Quote:
Originally posted by European guy
Bend ? Sure. I bended and rebended the Flat Nordost cable everytime.
They are supposed to sustain more than a thousand bends and behave as new.
I have 90 degrees bends below carpet , too.


Just like the posts.

But seriously, I've seen it separate from bending. Once or twice will be ok, but more than that, often causes it to separate from the substrate.

I'm not criticising, but I would just like to help with the English. It's "bent and rebent".
post #71 of 71
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
Just like the posts.

But seriously, I've seen it separate from bending. Once or twice will be ok, but more than that, often causes it to separate from the substrate.

I'm not criticising, but I would just like to help with the English. It's "bent and rebent".

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: iPod + iTunes + AppleTV
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPod + iTunes + AppleTV › Apple reserves room for changes atop iPod line