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What's with the gaps down at the bottom of some apps?? (GarageBand)

post #1 of 27
Thread Starter 
I'll use GarageBand as an example.

If you launch GarageBand, in the main window you'll notice the window does not reach the bottom of your display. So you can see the window of whatever app is behind the GarageBand window!
This is so annoying!
What's worse is when it's noticeable in Safari, because try as you may, you will not be able to drag the window down to get rid of the gap!

As innovative as apple is, I can't understand why this problem exists!

It's annoying, and it's seems strange that apple didn't sort this yet!
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #2 of 27
wth are you talking about? I can drag out any window to cover to the bottom of the screen. I for one cant stand the fullscreen type apps that hog the desktop. I sometimes need access to many different windows that i have open.
Try dragging your windows bottom right corner to the size that you want. I am sure it will work(does for me).

IBL
post #3 of 27
The description of your problem and what you have tried to resolve it are not very clear.

Do you have the dock at the bottom of your screen?

--B
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post #4 of 27
I see what he means, and yes, it is the Dock that is causing it (my Dock is hidden). With Safari open, I moved my Dock to the left then opened a new window in Safari that I could make slightly longer than the one already open. When I moved the Dock back to the bottom, new windows again have the slight space at the bottom.

The desktop picture seems to carry under the the gap.

Never noticed this until now, and spend several hours a day on my Macs. Doesn't bother me at all; wouldn't have noticced it if I hadn't read it here. Still now it doesn't occcur to me that this is a problem. It seems natural for the Dock to need a liittle space to operate in; other docklike apps I have used - especially Codetek7s Virtual Desktop - have very noticeable handles sticking out all over, so at least Apple's Dock is almost invisible.

 

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Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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post #5 of 27
Happens with Safari, Mail, some other apps, not iTunes, not with some other apps.

If you grab the window and move it down, the gap will disappear, but if you drag the window resize handle, the gap will remmain.


This seems to be an OS X thing, so perhaps this thread should be moved...

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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post #6 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Bergermeister
Happens with Safari, Mail, some other apps, not iTunes, not with some other apps.

If you grab the window and move it down, the gap will disappear, but if you drag the window resize handle, the gap will remmain.


This seems to be an OS X thing, so perhaps this thread should be moved...

This is also an application thing!
There should be no gaps in my opinion. My dock is hidden on the bottom.
This should not create a tiny gap!
If I'm looking at video clip say on Safari, iWeb, with a black background, It's offputting and a little annoying.
I just think apple should clean it up that's all.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #7 of 27
Thread Starter 
To clarify:

When a window is at fullscreen in some applications, e.g. when GarageBand is launched it's most noticeable in that window.
There's about a 3mm gap between the bottom of the Garageband window and the the bottom bezal of the display.

The user should not have to fix the gap, there should be no gap, this problem even though small, should not exist. Even WITH the dock hidden at the bottom.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #8 of 27
It's not a bug it's a feature.

As has been noted, it's a subtle UI hint that the dock is hidden on the edge that doesn't quite reach. It gives a little mousing space between the drag corner and invoking the hidden dock. You can replicate this behavior right or bottom, depending on where the dock is located.

If it really bothers you that much you could put your dock on the left. Since you can't resize a window by dragging from the left edge no gap need or provided.
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post #9 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by addabox
It's not a bug it's a feature.

As has been noted, it's a subtle UI hint that the dock is hidden on the edge that doesn't quite reach. It gives a little mousing space between the drag corner and invoking the hidden dock. You can replicate this behavior right or bottom, depending on where the dock is located.

If it really bothers you that much you could put your dock on the left. Since you can't resize a window by dragging from the left edge no gap need or provided.

I know it's not a bug.
I like my dock on the bottom (hidden), and if you put the dock on the left you'll have the same problem with the window being pushed slightly to the right, back to square one again maybe even worse!
If I put my dock on the bottom and keep it there I tihnk I will remember where I put it. And if I cannot remember, a quick check with the mouse or in the menu bar confimrs that.
If you reposition the window on the left with the dock hidden on the left, when you open a new app or new window that gap is there again!

Don't get me wrong I love Mac OS X and apple, but this needs a little attention. If i'm watching say a movie/video clip in safari with in a black window, I don't want to see my desktop at the bottom, where the gap is and I don't want have to move the dock or anything. Fullscreen should mean fullscreen!
p.s. If the gap is there to get at the dock then why is the gap noticeably bigger in GarageBand!
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #10 of 27
Quote:
Originally posted by Ireland
There's about a 3mm gap

Quote:
http://lamar.colostate.edu/~hillger/internat.htm
[With regard to integration of the metric system,] legally, Ireland is quite advanced, but there is still widespread use of Imperial units in everyday conversation. Most older people cannot visualize metric quantities easily.



I don't know about your screen, but I'm using 1280 x 854 and I've got 3 pixels, not 3 mm, of buffer when the dock is hidden.

I don't know if I've misinterpreted your posts, but you seem to be pretty worked up about these 3 pixels.

--B
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post #11 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by bergz


I don't know about your screen, but I'm using 1280 x 854 and I've got 3 pixels, not 3 mm, of buffer when the dock is hidden.

I don't know if I've misinterpreted your posts, but you seem to be pretty worked up about these 3 pixels.

--B [/B]

In Europe/Ireland we use metric!
In GarageBand the gap is not far off 3mm.(2mm, whatever)

The point is there sould be no gap at all, like the fact there is no gap on the left or right. The edge of the window on the left and right meets the edge of the display, the same should apply to the bottom of the screen. I'm not the only person who thinks apple sould get rid of this gap!
The result would be clean lines
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #12 of 27
Quote:
Originally posted by Ireland
In Europe/Ireland we use metric!

What does that have to do with anything? A screen uses pixels. Not millimeters, not potatoes and not fractions of an inch.
post #13 of 27
One strange thing I just noticed is that Garageband is the only app I have that DOESN'T leave a gap. Firefox, Finder windows and Photoshop, for ex. all leave the gap, but Garageband doesn't. I'm using GB 2.0 on 10.3.9. I'd post a pic but I'm lazy.

--B
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post #14 of 27
Quote:
Originally posted by Ireland
I know it's not a bug.
I like my dock on the bottom (hidden), and if you put the dock on the left you'll have the same problem with the window being pushed slightly to the right, back to square one again maybe even worse!
If I put my dock on the bottom and keep it there I tihnk I will remember where I put it. And if I cannot remember, a quick check with the mouse or in the menu bar confimrs that.
If you reposition the window on the left with the dock hidden on the left, when you open a new app or new window that gap is there again!

Don't get me wrong I love Mac OS X and apple, but this needs a little attention. If i'm watching say a movie/video clip in safari with in a black window, I don't want to see my desktop at the bottom, where the gap is and I don't want have to move the dock or anything. Fullscreen should mean fullscreen!
p.s. If the gap is there to get at the dock then why is the gap noticeably bigger in GarageBand!


Hmmmm...... you're right about putting the dock on the left not changing the gapping behavior.

I still think that Apple does this because it makes it easier to hit the resize corner without the Dock popping in and turning your mouse click into selecting the trash instead of grabbing the window. If you try the above with and without the gap (by dragging the window over) it actually does make a difference.

That being said, you obviously don't like it, so: make a desktop image with a few mm of black at the bottom and never drag windows down but only use the resize button. That way, no windows will show underneath and you'll have nice inky blackness in your gap.

Yes, I know that in your estimation you "shouldn't" have to do anything at all, but given that Apple has included the gap for a reason it seems unlikely that they'll change it, and you only have to fix it once.
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post #15 of 27
Why would you want ANY app to be full screen? Your using a mac now buddy you can be more productive than that!
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post #16 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by addabox
Hmmmm...... you're right about putting the dock on the left not changing the gapping behavior.

I still think that Apple does this because it makes it easier to hit the resize corner without the Dock popping in and turning your mouse click into selecting the trash instead of grabbing the window. If you try the above with and without the gap (by dragging the window over) it actually does make a difference.

That being said, you obviously don't like it, so: make a desktop image with a few mm of black at the bottom and never drag windows down but only use the resize button. That way, no windows will show underneath and you'll have nice inky blackness in your gap.

Yes, I know that in your estimation you "shouldn't" have to do anything at all, but given that Apple has included the gap for a reason it seems unlikely that they'll change it, and you only have to fix it once.

On the contrary I think the only reason you cannot grab the window when you go right down to the bottom right corner is precisely because the window does not!
And to 'Chucker', take a ruler and put it next to the screen and you'll see what I mean! Maybe I didn't feel like counting the pixels! A rular was faster!
p.s. I wasn't aware patatoes were a form of measurement. You must have been rared a little differently.
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post #17 of 27
Quote:
Originally posted by Ireland
And to 'Chucker', take a ruler and put it next to the screen and you'll see what I mean!

I seriously pity you if your screen has such a low resolution that 3 pixels roughly equal 3 millimeters.
post #18 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Chucker
I seriously pity you if your screen has such a low resolution that 3 pixels roughly equal 3 millimeters.

Stop wasting my time!
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post #19 of 27
Quote:
Originally posted by Ireland
On the contrary I think the only reason you cannot grab the window when you go right down to the bottom right corner is precisely because the window does not!
And to 'Chucker', take a ruler and put it next to the screen and you'll see what I mean! Maybe I didn't feel like counting the pixels! A rular was faster!
p.s. I wasn't aware patatoes were a form of measurement. You must have been rared a little differently.

Does your dock extend to the right hand corner of your screen? Do you keep it hidden? If so, throwing the cursor to the bottom right corner will cause the Dock to appear, and trying to click the window grab corner will select the trash.

Now grant you, I use TinkerTool to pin the Dock to the right, so that might not be an issue for you.

So what you should do is, get TinkerTool, pin your Dock to the right, and that way every time you go to resize a window, you can say "Man! I'm glad Apple built in a little space down here so I don't just ineffectually show the dock every time I try to do this!".

See? And then you'll have turned an irritating problem into a happy thought!
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post #20 of 27
So, it is interesting that different programs behave differently (as Berg mentioned). I did a test (I can't believe I actually wasted the time, but I did) of the programs I most frequently use and of them

iTunes, Filemaker Pro, Entourage, Excel, Word, FCP, After Effects, Illustrator, InDesign, do not have the space.

Quicktime, Safari, Aperture, iCal, Mail all have the gap. In fact, Quicken has an even larger gap.


Is there something in common with these programs that would cause this? It's obviously not a dock related thing since it's not universal.

It doesn't bother me at all, but it does have me curious. I use a 23" cinema display, so quite honestly I rarely ever have anything that far down.

Why would anyone ever be watching a movie in safari? Wouldn't you be using Quicktime, which would allow fullscreen anyway.
post #21 of 27
Quote:
Originally posted by OBJRA10
So, it is interesting that different programs behave differently (as Berg mentioned). I did a test (I can't believe I actually wasted the time, but I did) of the programs I most frequently use and of them

iTunes, Filemaker Pro, Entourage, Excel, Word, FCP, After Effects, Illustrator, InDesign, do not have the space.

Quicktime, Safari, Aperture, iCal, Mail all have the gap. In fact, Quicken has an even larger gap.


Is there something in common with these programs that would cause this? It's obviously not a dock related thing since it's not universal.

It doesn't bother me at all, but it does have me curious. I use a 23" cinema display, so quite honestly I rarely ever have anything that far down.

Why would anyone ever be watching a movie in safari? Wouldn't you be using Quicktime, which would allow fullscreen anyway.

Well, seeing as how the gap follows the dock positioning, I think we have to assume it is dock related, just not consistent. That is, it's not anything the dock is "doing", but insofar as an app is coded to have a gap, it is coded to put that gap on the side where the dock is.

I can't discern any pattern to the apps you list, other than all the "gappers" other than Quicken are Apple software.

Maybe something added or dropped that depends on version?
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post #22 of 27
Thread Starter 
All I know is I'm not too fond of the gap, and even with iTunes and no gap with the window at full fullscreen. If you bring the mouse right down to the bottom right corner to resize the wondow, click the mouse>it misses the window, you have to move the cursor slightly to grab the window, thus slowing productivity. If it was a case where one could simple bring the mouse cursor down quickly to the right bottom corner and grab the window 10/10 times that would be useful, so I think apple should fix the windows so that fullscreen means fullscreen thats all!
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post #23 of 27
I should also add that if everyone had Window Dragon installed, and actually used it, this would never be a problem. Great Bloody Program (hack).

Quote:
WindowDragon was created because it is often inconvenient to click on a window's title bar or resize button to move and resize windows. WindowDragon allows a window's entire structure to be used as move or resize zone. In other words, WindowDragon makes it possible to move or resize a window by clicking anywhere within that window. Additionally, WindowDragon allows you to resize a window in any direction, and it allows you to drag all of an application's windows in tandem.

--B
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post #24 of 27
sigh, first of all, ireland, if you want something done, i hope you have reported your concern to apple. if not, while i'm pretty convinced a few apple employees check out these boards, i am guessing your complaints would carry more if directed to apple's mac os x feedback form. it just bugs me when people get all hot and bothered HERE, and never ever think to use the feedback submittal form on apple's site. 50% of my suggested changes and improvements have been made over time. sure, some of them may have been coincidences, but it certainly seems like a more effective way to go.

anyway, second, this behavior is a holdover from the first mac os x 10.0.0, and it's been anyone's guess as to what apps do it, and what apps don't. apple's apps seem to do it more often, because, back then, all apps were SUPPOSED to "respect the dock." since the dock was supposed to be this everything-to-every-task utility (and it's still a pain to even quit the process -- it loves to restart itself), it was considered bad form to write any app that would cover it up. heck, it's your alert system when an app wants attention (the bouncy icon), it's where the minimized windows go (unless you hack it otherwise), etc. for now, apple considers the dock to important of a process to potentially obstruct. apple used the same reasoning as they did for the menu bar long ago... you've been able to hide taskbars and menu bars on windows for a long time, and 3D apps are especially prone to this, as they tend to try to make their own interface use the entire screen. whether you feel this behavior is correct or not, though, is for you and an apple developer to get into a heated exchange about.

that having been said, you can TRICK an app to go past this reserved space, by getting it as close to the edge as you can, then by dragging the app's title bar, you can push the bottom edge down by dragging the entire window. yeah, that supposedly leaves you with a bit of room at the top, but with most apps, if you've got multiple monitors. you can use that extra screen real estate to make windows larger that your desktop by using that extra space as tracking room for your mouse when it's resizing a window. then you can keep scooting it up and down until it's filling all desktop area.

but, man, that seems like a LOT of effort to hide 3 pixels worth of space. couldn't you just make your desktop picture black and that would make it almost invisible? sure would save you some time.
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post #25 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by rok
sigh, first of all, ireland, if you want something done, i hope you have reported your concern to apple. if not, while i'm pretty convinced a few apple employees check out these boards, i am guessing your complaints would carry more if directed to apple's mac os x feedback form. it just bugs me when people get all hot and bothered HERE, and never ever think to use the feedback submittal form on apple's site. 50% of my suggested changes and improvements have been made over time. sure, some of them may have been coincidences, but it certainly seems like a more effective way to go.

anyway, second, this behavior is a holdover from the first mac os x 10.0.0, and it's been anyone's guess as to what apps do it, and what apps don't. apple's apps seem to do it more often, because, back then, all apps were SUPPOSED to "respect the dock." since the dock was supposed to be this everything-to-every-task utility (and it's still a pain to even quit the process -- it loves to restart itself), it was considered bad form to write any app that would cover it up. heck, it's your alert system when an app wants attention (the bouncy icon), it's where the minimized windows go (unless you hack it otherwise), etc. for now, apple considers the dock to important of a process to potentially obstruct. apple used the same reasoning as they did for the menu bar long ago... you've been able to hide taskbars and menu bars on windows for a long time, and 3D apps are especially prone to this, as they tend to try to make their own interface use the entire screen. whether you feel this behavior is correct or not, though, is for you and an apple developer to get into a heated exchange about.

that having been said, you can TRICK an app to go past this reserved space, by getting it as close to the edge as you can, then by dragging the app's title bar, you can push the bottom edge down by dragging the entire window. yeah, that supposedly leaves you with a bit of room at the top, but with most apps, if you've got multiple monitors. you can use that extra screen real estate to make windows larger that your desktop by using that extra space as tracking room for your mouse when it's resizing a window. then you can keep scooting it up and down until it's filling all desktop area.

but, man, that seems like a LOT of effort to hide 3 pixels worth of space. couldn't you just make your desktop picture black and that would make it almost invisible? sure would save you some time.

Just read the first paragraph of this so far. Yes I did send this feedback, about 6 times so far in the last while. I just was a bit pissed that's all, and though a few people here were too!

...................just read the rest of your post, seems like too much work.
Get it sorted apple!
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #26 of 27
Quote:
Originally posted by Ireland
Just read the first paragraph of this so far. Yes I did send this feedback, about 6 times so far in the last while. I just was a bit pissed that's all, and though a few people here were too!

...................just read the rest of your post, seems like too much work.
Get it sorted apple!

It sounds like this causes you serious headaches and worry. I think I remember that in Windows XP, the applications take up the whole screen. You could always use that instead.
post #27 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by OBJRA10
It sounds like this causes you serious headaches and worry. I think I remember that in Windows XP, the applications take up the whole screen. You could always use that instead.

That's funny!
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