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ILLEGAL Immigration-Congress wimps out again

post #1 of 124
Thread Starter 
As usual, Congress goes against the wishes of the American people and rewards
illegal behavior. Say hello to a country with 500 Million people. Say hello to a
third world country. Say goodbye to the Middle Class. 4 traitor Republicans
sided with the pussy Democrats. Add the King od all traitors, George W. Bush, to
the day the Republican Party died.

>Halls of Shame,
Senate Judiciary Committee Passes Massive Guest Worker Amnesty Program
Would Destroy American Dream for American Workers and Families

As you have undoubtedly heard, the Senate Judiciary Committee last evening
approved an amnesty guest worker program modeled after the worst of all
possible alternatives, the McCain-Kennedy legislation. Not to be outdone, Sen.
Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) successfully advanced an amendment to provide
amnesty for some 1.5 million illegal alien agricultural workers.

Incredible as it may sound, the Judiciary Committee took this action even as the
Government Accountability Office (GAO) was issuing a devastating report on
border vulnerability to terrorism. The report revealed that its investigators had
successfully smuggled enough nuclear material across both the Mexican and
Canadian borders to assemble two "dirty bombs." Even more incredibly, the GAO
investigators smuggled their cargo not in some remote unguarded sector of
either border, but through regular "secure" border crossings.

What follows is a short synopsis of the highlights of the Judiciary Committee bill
approved yesterday:

Citizenship for Sale and for Free

General Amnesty (Graham R-SC, Kennedy D-MA Amendment)

All 12 million currently resident illegal aliens would be permitted to apply for a
work visa after paying back taxes and a $1000 penalty.
The visas would last for three years and be renewable for three more years.
After the forth year, these 12 million newly-minted legal aliens-their family
members who will ultimately be permitted to join them pushing the numbers
through the roof-would be permitted to apply for a green card setting them on
a path for citizenship.
Approved 12-5.
Yesterday's Villains include Senators Arlen Specter (R-PA), Sam Brownback (R-
KS), Lindsey Graham (R-SC), and Mike DeWine (R-OH) who joined all Democrats
by voting for the most sweeping amnesty in American history.
Cowardly Lion Award goes to Senator Orrin Hatch (R-UT) who was conveniently
out of the room and did not vote.
Agricultural Worker Amnesty (Feinstein D-CA Amendment)

All 1.5 million illegal alien agricultural worker would receive a new "blue card"
that would allow them to remain in the United States as long as they work in
agriculture for a small portion of two years.
Following this period all of these 1.5 million newly-minted legal aliens-their
family members who will ultimately be permitted to join them will at minimum
double the numbers-would be permitted to apply for a green card, placing them
on a path toward citizenship.
Approved 11-5 on a roll call vote (votes by Senators not immediately available,
but mirror those of the general amnesty vote above).
Guests Who Never Have to Leave (Kennedy D-MA Amendment)

Provides 400,000 new guest worker visas annually.
New guest workers given renewable 3 year terms of work authorization.
Following 6 years, the new "guests" may apply for green cards, placing them on
a path toward citizenship if they can show that they are learning English and
pass background checks.
Approved 11-6 by roll call vote (votes by Senators not immediately available but
mirror those of the general amnesty vote above).
Want to Go to College? U.S. Citizens Go To The Back of The Line!

In-State Tuition for Illegal Aliens Anyone? (Durbin D-IL Amendment)

Repeals current law barring in-state tuition for illegal aliens unless the same
benefit is made available to out of state residents.
This will effectively require middle and lower income Americans to directly
compete with illegal aliens for limited freshman class seats at state colleges and
universities.
Approved by voice vote.
Invitation to Overstay Visas

Decriminalize Visa Overstayers Anyone? (Durbin D-IL Amendment)

Makes overstay of a visa-40 percent of all illegal aliens are visa overstayers-a
civil violation and removes all criminal penalties.
Approved 11-6 by roll call vote (votes by Senators not immediately available but
mirror those of the general amnesty vote above).
Final Bill Approved by Committee Roll Call Vote of 12-6

Voted For Committee Approval
Arlen Specter (R-PA)
DeWine (R-OH)
Graham (R-SC)
Brownback (R-KS)
Leahy (D-VT)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Biden (D-DE)
Kohl (D-WI)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Feingold (D-WI)
Schumer (D-NY)
Durbin (D-IL)

Voted Against Committee Approval
Hatch (R-UT)
Grassley (R-IA)
Kyl (R-AZ)
Sessions (R-AL)
Cornyn (R-TX)
Coburn (R-TN)
post #2 of 124
I'd be much more inclined to read it if the piece you quoted wasn't so damned hyperbolic.
"Many people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." - Bertrand Russell
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post #3 of 124
T
"some catch on faster than others"
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"some catch on faster than others"
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post #4 of 124
The American fear of immigrants is really pathetic; almost all Americans are descendants of immigrants, the first of whom were "illegals" in Indian territory. What did the white man do when the Indians complained? He slaughtered them, patted himself on the back and claimed to have built a great nation "under God".

God bless America!

 

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Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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post #5 of 124
Quote:
Originally posted by southside grabowski
These Republicans in da Whitehouse are sometin else. Here's my simple plan.


*Send da military into the cities to find these outlaw illegals and run em out of the country.

*Patrol da borders with the military. Shoot people (yea I said Shoot) people commin across if they won't stop.

With a little guts, this is all doable.

Ladies & Gentlemen! The most reasonable man alive!
post #6 of 124
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Bergermeister
The American fear of immigrants is really pathetic; almost all Americans are descendants of immigrants, the first of whom were "illegals" in Indian territory. What did the white man do when the Indians complained? He slaughtered them, patted himself on the back and claimed to have built a great nation "under God".

God bless America!

I have no problem with legal immigrants, the problem is with illegal immigrants.
post #7 of 124
500 Million people! Yay! Think of the Raves, Man.

Think of all those babies... mmm... babies.

Who cares?

Third world?

My ass.

steve666 why don't you go hang out in a third world country and come back and tell us exactly how the US is going to become one?

Oh right, I forgot, you are afraid of brown people.
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post #8 of 124
Quote:
Originally posted by steve666
I have no problem with legal immigrants, the problem is with illegal immigrants.

Berger's point was that, seeing as you never asked Native Americans their permission, you are an illegal immigrant, unless you are a Native yourself.
post #9 of 124
I am smoking some cannabis at the moment... i hope they give me the right to smoke pot on a regular basis.
post #10 of 124
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Chucker
Berger's point was that, seeing as you never asked Native Americans their permission, you are an illegal immigrant, unless you are a Native yourself.

That is an old, tired argument. What happened happened, and now the USA is a country with borders, laws and customs. The world has been formed by endless wars and conquests.
The question is how does illegal immigration affect the United States now, not 'well, 200 or so years ago such and such happened.....'. Its inconsequential and a silly argument.
post #11 of 124
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by JohnnySmith
I am smoking some cannabis at the moment... i hope they give me the right to smoke pot on a regular basis.

I think you should have that right also.
post #12 of 124
Quote:
What happened happened

That's what illegals are saying too. What happened happened - we are here for 20 years now, it's a tired and silly argument.
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post #13 of 124
People can bitch and complain all they want, but the fact remains: there are jobs in California and other places, that employers have trouble finding employees for. These illegal immigrants, however, would love to have those jobs.

CNN (Anderson Cooper) had a whole piece on this yesterday.
post #14 of 124
Quote:
Originally posted by Ra
People can bitch and complain all they want, but the fact remains: there are jobs in California and other places, that employers have trouble finding employees for. These illegal immigrants, however, would love to have those jobs.

CNN (Anderson Cooper) had a whole piece on this yesterday.

It's not news unless it's Fox News!
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post #15 of 124
Quote:
Originally posted by Ra
People can bitch and complain all they want, but the fact remains: there are jobs in California and other places, that employers have trouble finding employees for. These illegal immigrants, however, would love to have those jobs.

Then we should just make it legal and be done with it.
post #16 of 124
Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Cuilla
Then we should just make it legal and be done with it.

I agree. No amnesty program. What we need instead is a guest worker program that is seasonal, requires departure from the country to maintain legal status, and leads to full citizenship after a certain number of years as a guest.
post #17 of 124
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Ra
People can bitch and complain all they want, but the fact remains: there are jobs in California and other places, that employers have trouble finding employees for. These illegal immigrants, however, would love to have those jobs.

CNN (Anderson Cooper) had a whole piece on this yesterday.

Thats a crock. You think these businesses are out looking for legal immigrants to do the job if illegals will do it dirt cheap and these businesses dont have to pay payroll, unemployment, and workers comp taxes?
Open you eyes, man. What do you think the 1 million legal immigrants we let in each year do, manage IBM?
post #18 of 124
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Gene Clean
That's what illegals are saying too. What happened happened - we are here for 20 years now, it's a tired and silly argument.

That makes no sense. You can't use that for every argument-it is a pointless statement. they broke the law and they should not be rewarded for it.
post #19 of 124
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by tonton
I agree. No amnesty program. What we need instead is a guest worker program that is seasonal, requires departure from the country to maintain legal status, and leads to full citizenship after a certain number of years as a guest.

So just how big do you think the population of the US should become? What do you feel comfortable with? At the current rate the population will reach 500 million in a few decades. Do you feel comfortable with that? Currently its around 275 million.
post #20 of 124
Quote:
Originally posted by Gene Clean
That's what illegals are saying too. What happened happened - we are here for 20 years now, it's a tired and silly argument.

I was going to say that but... I was trying to hard to compare these illegals to the european conquerers of the US... it didn't flow as nicely...

good job!
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post #21 of 124
Quote:
Originally posted by steve666
So just how big do you think the population of the US should become? What do you feel comfortable with? At the current rate the population will reach 500 million in a few decades. Do you feel comfortable with that? Currently its around 275 million.

Are you serious?

Do you even know the population of the country in which you reside?

You are off by 10% (too low I might add).

You are a bad citizen if you don't know such basics about your country.

Why must we want the population to reach a certain level?

Who cares if the US has 2 Billion people?
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post #22 of 124
You really need to just approach this whole illegal alien situation pragmatically. Are we really going to be able to get them out of here? Come on. Best thing to do is do document their asses, get them paying taxes, and take action to prevent more illegals from crossing the border (and the best way to do that is to open up LEGAL immigration even further).

 

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post #23 of 124
Quote:
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
Who cares if the US has 2 Billion people?

Xenophobes, protectionists and exclusivists.

Basically the same people who oppose gay marriage.
post #24 of 124
Quote:
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
Who cares if the US has 2 Billion people?

Thats pretty easy. If the US population goes up to 2000000000 then the current life style of us can be maintained. If we are to be able to use the resouces we use it is nessesary for the rest of the world to use a lot less. The system doesn´t work if everybody suddenly can buy a refrigerator. So it is importent to keep others from obtaining those goods.
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post #25 of 124
We have accepted and encouraged this so long that it has become a way of life for the Hispanic workers. I listened to the comments of protesting high school kids yesterday and was struck by their inability to distinguish "immigration" from "ILLEGAL immigration". They have been here most or all of their lives and they feel that their people have earned the right to live as they do.

Our hunger for profit and cheap labor has created this mess. I dont think that these people do jobs that Americans wont do. Americans wont do these jobs for the same price.


What to do? As said above, we need to be pragmatic. We should admit we want these people here and develop a guest worker program. Even with such a program, I wonder how many people not in the program will still sneak in? Then we will have immigrants, guest workers and illegals. We are not capable of locking down the border. Rather than going after illegals, we should come down hard on those who hire them so that employers are afraid to hire illegals. As long as there is work, the people will come north. I know I would.

Republican politicians are now panicking afraid that their conservative constituents might not reelect them. This is little more than politicians trying to get back in favor with their voters.
post #26 of 124
Quote:
Originally posted by Mac on a Mac
Our hunger for profit and cheap labor has created this mess. I dont think that these people do jobs that Americans wont do. Americans wont do these jobs for the same price.

Bingo!

While I do not have a problem with immigration. Illegal immigration is another matter.

I find it amusing (and stupid) when those that support illegal immigration attempt to redefine the words used to describe these individuals. Stupid. Just call it what it is...illegal immigration.

Now, I actually support opening up the Mexican border. I think if we really want it to be legal to emmigrate from Mexico in the numbers that currently do (and our actions as a nation indicate we do) then let's just friggin' say so! (I don't think there will be a mass influx as some suggest...the Mexican middle class is actually growing very will in Mexico which will slow the influx.)

Still...I find the arguments often (not always) used in favor rather distasteful. They basically amount to "we cannot have the lifestyle we currently have if we don't exploit cheap labor".

I also find the general reasoning that "well, a bunch of people are doing it and going to do it no matter what, so let's just make it legal." Another dubious argument.

NOTE: I am not opposed to immigration and I am in favor of opening the border with Mexico. Lest anyone call me whatever name they want call me because of the false conclusions they are quick to jump to.
post #27 of 124
Quote:
Originally posted by steve666
I have no problem with legal immigrants, the problem is with illegal immigrants.

Steve, Steve, Steve, Steve! The moment our founding fathers turned against the british they could be considered " Illegal immigrants ".

Get real!

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post #28 of 124
Quote:
Originally posted by steve666
Thats a crock. You think these businesses are out looking for legal immigrants to do the job if illegals will do it dirt cheap and these businesses dont have to pay payroll, unemployment, and workers comp taxes?
Open you eyes, man. What do you think the 1 million legal immigrants we let in each year do, manage IBM?

Yes, I do think some of these businesses are looking for legal immigrants or U.S. citizens or residents, because, get this, some businesses don't want to hire illegals, because, it's illegal.
post #29 of 124
What a strange situation when someone who is here illegally may shortly have more rights than a gay citizen who was born in America.

I guess that warty little inconsistency will be swept under the carpet.
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post #30 of 124
Quote:
Originally posted by sammi jo
What a strange situation when someone who is here illegally may shortly have more rights than a gay citizen who was born in America.

I guess that warty little inconsistency will be swept under the carpet.

This thread has potential if it can stay on track.
post #31 of 124
Quote:
Originally posted by Ra
Yes, I do think some of these businesses are looking for legal immigrants or U.S. citizens or residents, because, get this, some businesses don't want to hire illegals, because, it's illegal.

Of course some want to hire legals. Many others accept people with fake papers (knowingly or not) and others hire people from "day labor" lots. I can't speak for up north, but here in Houston I think it would be very hard to be competitive in an unskilled labor-intensive business without hiring illegals.
post #32 of 124
Or maybe it would be possible to be competitive, if all companies ceased hiring illegals. Then they would be on level ground, with (presumably) the same expenses for employees.

But the profits are too juicy with illegals.
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post #33 of 124
Quote:
Originally posted by Gene Clean
Or maybe it would be possible to be competitive, if all companies ceased hiring illegals. Then they would be on level ground, with (presumably) the same expenses for employees.

But the profits are too juicy with illegals.

True. If the playing field is even.
post #34 of 124
I think we have had illegals around long enough that our cost of living is much lower than it would be without them.

Any mass exodus would be devastating to the economy.
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post #35 of 124
Quote:
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
I think we have had illegals around long enough that our cost of living is much lower than it would be without them.

Any mass exodus would be devastating to the economy.

Especially is states like Texas
post #36 of 124
Quote:
Originally posted by tonton
Basically the same people who oppose gay marriage.


Actually Tonton, you're way, way off base here. The anti-gay marriage side doesn't mind terribly if Mexican illegals become citizens.

When you factor in birth rates, religion and voting patterns it should be easy to see why.
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post #37 of 124
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
Are you serious?

Do you even know the population of the country in which you reside?

You are off by 10% (too low I might add).

You are a bad citizen if you don't know such basics about your country.

Why must we want the population to reach a certain level?

Who cares if the US has 2 Billion people?

I was erring on the low side, not including illegals.
Who cares if the US has 2 Billion people? I would think most Americans would care. If you don't live here, why are you responding? Of course you don't care.
post #38 of 124
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by BR
You really need to just approach this whole illegal alien situation pragmatically. Are we really going to be able to get them out of here? Come on. Best thing to do is do document their asses, get them paying taxes, and take action to prevent more illegals from crossing the border (and the best way to do that is to open up LEGAL immigration even further).

There is cross flow of people amounting to millions. Why would it be difficult? Make sure businesses that hire illegals are fined up the yin-yang and threaten them with jail. No jobs, goodbye illegals.
And since when do we just give up when something is difficult? Apparently right now.
And we already let in 1 million legal immigrants per year. We don;t need more people, our population is exploding.
post #39 of 124
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by tonton
Xenophobes, protectionists and exclusivists.

Basically the same people who oppose gay marriage.

Thats some argument you have there. Anyone who disagrees with you on the subject automatically are xenophobes and exclusivists? You must be a Democrat.
post #40 of 124
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Cuilla
Bingo!

While I do not have a problem with immigration. Illegal immigration is another matter.

I find it amusing (and stupid) when those that support illegal immigration attempt to redefine the words used to describe these individuals. Stupid. Just call it what it is...illegal immigration.

Now, I actually support opening up the Mexican border. I think if we really want it to be legal to emmigrate from Mexico in the numbers that currently do (and our actions as a nation indicate we do) then let's just friggin' say so! (I don't think there will be a mass influx as some suggest...the Mexican middle class is actually growing very will in Mexico which will slow the influx.)

Still...I find the arguments often (not always) used in favor rather distasteful. They basically amount to "we cannot have the lifestyle we currently have if we don't exploit cheap labor".

I also find the general reasoning that "well, a bunch of people are doing it and going to do it no matter what, so let's just make it legal." Another dubious argument.

NOTE: I am not opposed to immigration and I am in favor of opening the border with Mexico. Lest anyone call me whatever name they want call me because of the false conclusions they are quick to jump to.

You want open borders where anyone, including terrorists have easy access to the US? You sure about that?
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