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Apple's "Boot Camp" beta runs Windows XP on Macs - Page 5

post #161 of 511
4/5/06 at 12:49pm
  • Kickaha
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Quote:
Originally posted by james808:
I'd love to have OS X versions of games, but since they don't exist, I will be playing the Windows versions, and now I don't have to buy another machine to do it. Thats great, and I think it is a good move for Apple.

Indeed. Because frankly, Apple just wants to get market penetration to give people a taste of the OS, figuring that they'll migrate over on their own after they see it. Kind of a self-referential halo effect.

And whether you are running OS X, or Windows, they *STILL* made the sale.
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post #162 of 511
4/5/06 at 12:51pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Jleon
Someone needs to be devil's advocate here:

A 150% price increase is still a very good reason not to switch for most Windows users. If I was Bill Gates I'd be popping open the champaign right now, their 95% market share will get closer to 100%, with 5% having both OS's.

And how are those Apple mice going to work with Windows XP, anyway?

well, if you want OS X and NEED windows, you save 40% over buying a mac and a PC:

150% (mac cost)
-------------------------------- = 60%
100% (PC cost) + 150% (mac cost)

That still makes "switching" easier for some people... by a lot.

BTW, Apple's mouse is now 2+ button and works in xp..
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post #163 of 511
4/5/06 at 12:56pm
Quote:
Originally posted by slughead
well, if you want OS X and NEED windows, you save 40% over buying a mac and a PC:

150% (mac cost)
-------------------------------- = 60%
100% (PC cost) + 150% (mac cost)

That still makes "switching" easier for some people... by a lot.

BTW, Apple's mouse is now 2+ button and works in xp..

You're right, its definetly a godsend for anyone who needs both. What if you could put one operating system into a standby or hibernation mood when you switch?

I would say the usefulness of this is directly proportional to the speed with which you can transfer between the two.
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post #164 of 511
4/5/06 at 12:57pm
  • Kickaha
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jleon
I would say the usefulness of this is directly proportional to the speed with which you can transfer between the two.

Exactly. Which is why I don't think you'll see Apple provide an easier way to do so.

Why would they want you to switch *BACK* to Windows?

Don't fool yourself, this is a one-way migration tool masquerading as a dual-boot system.
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post #165 of 511
4/5/06 at 1:06pm
I think it would be funny if Apple extends the tone of the Beta announcement throughout their marketing of Bootcamp.

As has been noted, the name is designed to induce visions of grimly enforced discomfort. Then there's the grey scale announcement page, with only a tiny blue Mac icon to relive the gloom. Plus, the recasting of the Windows logo into something that looks like the symbol for toxic waste as marketed by Enron. Not to mention the overt dissing of Windows in the features list.

I want to see the TV ad: gaunt, grey wretch in grey wretched cubicle in the middle of an apocalyptic wasteland. Moaning wind. The sun is obscured by the smoke of a thousand fires.

V.O. (grim monotone): "Bootcamp. Run Windows if you must. Asshole."
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post #166 of 511
4/5/06 at 1:09pm
Quote:
Originally posted by emig647
I'm not sure what work u do... but think about 3d modelers and engineers. Other things need to be accessed like the graphics card, the sound card, the ram, not just the cpu... yes the cpu may be 20% slower, but everything else will be slower as well... which adds up =)...

*IS HERE TO DEFEND DUAL BOOTING* *makes a stand*

I'm sorry, maybe I'm stupid, but how does virtualization prevent dual booting? There's no need to "defend" dual booting against the virtualization crowd. You HAVE dual booting. It's not like the introduction of virtualization will suddenly make the possibility of dual booting disappear...especially considering Apple's specific comments about Boot Camp being integrated into 10.5. So why is there any arguement about this?
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post #167 of 511
4/5/06 at 1:10pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Kickaha
You're right, they could.

So why haven't they?

Possible reason above - no sense in doing so when you're intending it to be a migration path, not a cross-compatibility tool.

What if they have and Microsoft refused?

Is that so unlikely?

What about WindowsMedia: what if Apple asked and Microsoft refused to license? We don't know. We can merely speculate on whether it's in Apple's interest or not.
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post #168 of 511
4/5/06 at 1:11pm
Quote:
Originally posted by dr_gonzo
There was a way of non-destructively resizing HFS+ partitions but it was necessary to turn journaling off first. It seems that Apple have managed to non-destructively resize HFS+ partitions without turning journaling off which isn't such an amazing feat given Apple's resources.

There are already a few non-destructive volume resizing utilities for OS X, e.g. iPartition, which I used on a couple systems last week.
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post #169 of 511
4/5/06 at 1:12pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Kickaha
2) The URL you *gave* looks interesting, but doesn't seem to resolve to a page on that topic.

If you're referring to the patent, a simple Google search yields decent results.

The problem with the URL appears to be stupidity of this forum software. (I ran into it myself just a few days ago.)
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post #170 of 511
4/5/06 at 1:15pm
Hmm... 175 posts and not one person yet who has actually installed Boot Camp. I propose two possible explanations for this mystery:

1) Everyone who has tried has had their computer blow up and is thus unable to communicate with us,

or 2) Anyone who has done it is just doing too many cool things right now to get back to us about it.
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post #171 of 511
4/5/06 at 1:27pm
  • Kickaha
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chucker
[B]If you're referring to the patent, a simple Google search yields decent results.

Well, it does if resistant is spelled right.

But that still doesn't answer what I asked mel - what the relevance of this to BootCamp is, in his mind.
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post #172 of 511
4/5/06 at 1:27pm
Quote:
Originally posted by JohnnySmith
That's It???? Where are the Intel iBooks, the updated iPods, and all the other actual physical products that have been rumored about?

Apple releases a software update that people have already done for over a month on their own, and Apple's stock goes up 5???

Happy Birthday Apple. For your 30 year party you decide to have Windows run on a Mac? Whoopity-Doo. Just what I always wanted.

Nice way to give the finger to your dedicated base... once again.

Calm down sparky.

1. It is only April 4th. Only a 1/4 through the year. More to come.

2. Who said they HAVE to do anything for their 30th birthday?

3. The stock jump is because people think this is something that will help Apple sell more Macs.

4. How, exactly, is this a "way to give the finger to your dedicated base"?
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post #173 of 511
4/5/06 at 1:27pm
http://www.flickr.com/photos/speedye...7594099504282/
MacBook Pro 15" (Unibody)/2.4GHz Core 2 Duo/2 GB RAM/250GB HD/SuperDrive
iMac 20"/2 GHz Core 2 Duo/2 GB RAM/250 GB/SuperDrive
PowerBook G4 12"/1 GHz/1.25 GB RAM/60GB/Combo
iMac G3 333 MHz/96 MB...

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MacBook Pro 15" (Unibody)/2.4GHz Core 2 Duo/2 GB RAM/250GB HD/SuperDrive
iMac 20"/2 GHz Core 2 Duo/2 GB RAM/250 GB/SuperDrive
PowerBook G4 12"/1 GHz/1.25 GB RAM/60GB/Combo
iMac G3 333 MHz/96 MB...

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post #174 of 511
4/5/06 at 1:29pm
Quote:
Originally posted by addabox
V.O. (grim monotone): "Bootcamp. Run Windows if you must. Asshole."



Thank you.

No, really...THANK YOU. That made me laugh out loud!

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post #175 of 511
4/5/06 at 1:30pm
Quote:
Originally posted by GregAlexander
Virtualization would be great. Dual booting is of limited use.

However - being able to "fast switch" from Mac to Windows would be very useful (even if it only runs one OS at a time).

If you can safe sleep OS X and hibernate XP switching between the isn't quite as painful as cold booting every time since you can resume the previous login environment under each OS. Not as slick as "Fast OS Switching" with virtualization, but until that's possible it's more convenient than fully rebooting.
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post #176 of 511
4/5/06 at 1:30pm
El Reg is often fun, and this article makes for interesting reading... http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/04...dows_timeline/
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post #177 of 511
4/5/06 at 1:32pm
Quote:
Originally posted by baygbm
Hmm, the PowerMac G5 just took a deep dive in value. I was thinking of grabbing one at a bargain when the Mactel desktops came out (I like some of my old OS9 applications), but the prospect of being able to run Windows on a new Mactel desktop is more appealing.

They were already stalled, but PowerMac G5 sales just fell off a cliff.

I'm quite glad I sold my Powermac recently, I knew something would make it lose value in the near future.
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post #178 of 511
4/5/06 at 1:45pm
Well, it's clear it's a beta. I downloaded it, installed it and wanted to run it. The first thing it said was: "upgrade your firmware". No link, no nothing. OK. So now I have to hunt for firmware upgrades.

So as I'm doing that, I find the firmware for Mac mini's (I have the Core Duo version). I download it, try to install it and it tells me 'This firmware cannot be upgraded on this computer'. Why? It's the only firmware upgrade for Intel Mac mini's and it's for the 'early 2006' Mac mini's.

You can't install XP because you need to upgrade your firmware, but you can't upgrade your firmware because your computer already has something that's newer than the one offered. This is great.
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post #179 of 511
4/5/06 at 1:46pm
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Oh come on, it's just trying to give you the Patented Windows Experience!

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post #180 of 511
4/5/06 at 2:02pm
PC gaming is not dead, it's resting!.
'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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post #181 of 511
4/5/06 at 2:07pm
Quote:
Don't fool yourself, this is a one-way migration tool masquerading as a dual-boot system.

This makes sense. Apple may only do the least necessary to enabled running XP. There is little incentive to integrate OS X and XP workflow together.

Apple may leave it to others to take advantage of virtualization.
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post #182 of 511
4/5/06 at 2:10pm
Coming soon......

Jobs: Dell Should Close Shop

"What would I do? I'd shut it down and give the money back to the shareholders," Steve Jobs said before a crowd of several thousand IT executives referring to the newly unprofitable status of Dell Corporation since the launch of BootCamp and Mac OS X Leopard.


http://news.com.com/Dell+Apple+shoul..._3-203937.html
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post #183 of 511
4/5/06 at 2:11pm
  • Anders
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Quote:
Originally posted by DanMacMan
http://www.flickr.com/photos/speedye...7594099504282/

Heh. Looking at those pictures reminded me of when we still had to dual boot between the exciting new Mac OS X and bland old crash prone OS 9. In every way Windows will have the same function as OS 9
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post #184 of 511
4/5/06 at 2:22pm
I think Boot Camp is going to be just a test. They are going to see how many people are actually using it on a consistent basis and what they are using it for [gaming, AutoCAD perhaps, etc.].

From their, Apple is going to attempt to implement Windows APIs directly into OSX in an invisible layer. Similar to Darwine, maybe.

Anyways, I can just see Steve Jobs at WWDC: "So we released a beta of Boot Camp, software that allowed users to dual boot Windows and OSX. We said it would be in Leopard, but we decided not to include it. You see, we received a lot of great feedback about this software, but the one glaring problem still existed with all users: you're still using Windows. So today we're announcing Windows applications running natively inside of OSX. A huge library of software running in the secure OSX environment."

So on and so forth.

Of course you'de probably still need to buy a version of Windows and strip the APIs and shit off it so as to apease MS and so Apple can avoid a huge lawsuit.

Anyways, just a thought. I think this is coming sooner or later.
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post #185 of 511
4/5/06 at 2:29pm
Can anyone installing Boot camp confirm if the Driver disk includes Intel HD audio drivers for the audio chip and does it support the digital optical output?
Thanks for your help
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post #186 of 511
4/5/06 at 2:31pm
This is set to become one of the biggest Diggs on 'Digg' ever!
It's now heading for 5000 diggs! That's cool! Oh yea, my shares are back up 10% too! Good times!

DaHarder just got banned. Let's crack open the champagne.

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post #187 of 511
4/5/06 at 2:37pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by ryanh
I think Boot Camp is going to be just a test. They are going to see how many people are actually using it on a consistent basis and what they are using it for [gaming, AutoCAD perhaps, etc.].

From their, Apple is going to attempt to implement Windows APIs directly into OSX in an invisible layer. Similar to Darwine, maybe.

Anyways, I can just see Steve Jobs at WWDC: "So we released a beta of Boot Camp, software that allowed users to dual boot Windows and OSX. We said it would be in Leopard, but we decided not to include it. You see, we received a lot of great feedback about this software, but the one glaring problem still existed with all users: you're still using Windows. So today we're announcing Windows applications running natively inside of OSX. A huge library of software running in the secure OSX environment."

So on and so forth.

Of course you'de probably still need to buy a version of Windows and strip the APIs and shit off it so as to apease MS and so Apple can avoid a huge lawsuit.

Anyways, just a thought. I think this is coming sooner or later.

I think that will arrive the day that Apple decides to commit suicide.
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post #188 of 511
4/5/06 at 2:39pm
Anybody have the same issues as me? Anybody know a workaround?

Quote:
Well, it's clear it's a beta. I downloaded it, installed it and wanted to run it. The first thing it said was: "upgrade your firmware". No link, no nothing. OK. So now I have to hunt for firmware upgrades.

So as I'm doing that, I find the firmware for Mac mini's (I have the Core Duo version). I download it, try to install it and it tells me 'This firmware cannot be upgraded on this computer'. Why? It's the only firmware upgrade for Intel Mac mini's and it's for the 'early 2006' Mac mini's.

You can't install XP because you need to upgrade your firmware, but you can't upgrade your firmware because your computer already has something that's newer than the one offered. This is great.
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post #189 of 511
4/5/06 at 2:40pm
This is fantastic. This is exactly what I've always needed. I've had a Windows PC since college and therefore have collected a stack of software and games. Then I made the jump into the Mac world and have just enjoyed it so much better. I try to convince my friends and the rest of my family that they need to get a mac too. I can surf the internet without fear of constant attacks. And best of all, my three year old computer actually runs better now than it did when I first bought it (as opposed to their dell, which after two years now slugs along so slowly that it takes twenty minutes to boot up). They want what I have, but they can't give up all the software that they have and need. Being able to dual boot with Windows lets them do what they need to do for work, and then when they want to surf the web, or just relax, they can use OSX. This will definitely makes sales surge, and I think that the mini especially is going to see a lot action.
Other sales that are going to surge are old PCs on ebay as Mac users who have them sitting around for those occasional apps are going to toss them. It's also possible the KVM switch sales are going to plummet.
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post #190 of 511
4/5/06 at 2:50pm
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Guys.

Seriously.

Gaming arguments belong elsewhere.


------------- Line of tolerance --------------
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post #191 of 511
4/5/06 at 2:51pm
Quote:
Originally posted by aegisdesign
Welcome to the 21st century where Intel Macs ship with multi-button mice

Holy Black Turtle-neck batman! Macbooks have 2 mouse buttons?

All joking aside, imagine reading that same sentence 9 years ago...Most Mac-heads would have fallen on the floor laughing in between random OS8 crashes...my how far we have come.
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post #192 of 511
4/5/06 at 3:04pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by a_greer
Holy Black Turtle-neck batman! Macbooks have 2 mouse buttons?

You know, that may be the most disappointing thing about this whole announcement, to me... the fact that they didn't hack right-clicking into the XP trackpad driver somehow.

Seriously, without buying a USB pointer device with two buttons, how are you supposed to right-click in XP on a MacBook Pro? You can't ctrl-click...
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post #193 of 511
4/5/06 at 3:09pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Kickaha
Ooooookay, clear as mud.

1) The URL is kaput. Removing the crud from the middle that shows up in my address bar, I get bumped to the BootCamp article. Not seeing anything new there.

2) The URL you *gave* looks interesting, but doesn't seem to resolve to a page on that topic.

I don't know what happened. The page works fine from my bookmarks, and I just dragged it in, as usual.

I'll try again

http://www.macsimumnews.com/index.ph...esistant_code/

The entire address isn't moving over. I don't know why. It's worked in the past.

I'm going to try putting it in by hand (ugh!)


http://www.macsimumnews.com/index.ph...esistant_code/

Nope! That didn't work either.

I'll send it to you in a private message.Let me know if it came over that way. It's very strange.
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post #194 of 511
4/5/06 at 3:18pm
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Alright kiddies... PC vs console flame war is now over here: http://forums.appleinsider.com/showt...threadid=62568

Use it. Any further posts in this thread will be summarily deleted as Placebo's just was. (Sorry man, you posted mid-split. I'm sure you can recreate it over in the new thread.)
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post #195 of 511
4/5/06 at 3:25pm
Quote:
Originally posted by emig647
See my reply right above yours... would you want 2 OS's sharing a computer? That will == more complex problems... esp with malware...

There is a reason they restricted hardware to the OS recently. I don't know if you were around but back in the pre win 2k days... and pre os x days... hardware could be directly accessed by applications... which caused a lot of lock ups. No thanks, I'll stick to mah 1 OS per machine rule =)

But back in those days you didn't have hardware based virtualisation technology to partition the OSs from each other. Only big iron mainframes and AS400s had that kind of hardware support. Now you've got it in Intel's Core platform.
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post #196 of 511
4/5/06 at 3:29pm
Quote:
Originally posted by bergz
Boot Camp is the necessary evil you must suffer to go off and win the war.

Or at least take part anyway.
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post #197 of 511
4/5/06 at 3:33pm
Quote:
Originally posted by G_Warren
Since Apple mentions Leopard a lot here, I've been wondering - why are they tying it to Leopard so much and not just saying it is new free software (albeit in beta stage at present)?

In my opinion, clearly there are more tweaks which are only available in 10.5. Hopefully 10.5 will save burning a CD of drivers, or perhaps it is actually part of a grand plan that in 10.5 would let you have the option or running XP and OSX simultaneously. I guess we'll find out in August.

Because they were likely not going to release it on its own.

But with the stock dropping as it has, it was felt that this would give a lift. Hopefully permanently.
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post #198 of 511
4/5/06 at 3:34pm
someone posted a link to El Reg's predictions

After reading it, I'm sort of becoming scared too.

If you can run windows programs on a mac.. why would developers develop mac os x programs?

Also, I'm worried about viruses, like the ones that crept in on OSX when it ran OS 9 as a VM.

Come on, someone afflicted with the RDF please subdue my fears!
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post #199 of 511
4/5/06 at 3:39pm
  • Kickaha
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Viruses? OS9? What the heck are you talking about??

And no, this has squat all to do with whether or not applications get developed for the Mac. Dual-booting is a pain in the butt. No reasonable user will be happy with it for everyday use. The Register article is making wild leaps of speculation without any basis in reality, and everything hinges on the virtualization technology being offered by Apple. Which it's not. It also assumes that Vista actually *ships*...

I could swear we covered this already in this very thread...
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post #200 of 511
4/5/06 at 3:40pm
Quote:
Originally posted by slughead
someone posted a link to El Reg's predictions

After reading it, I'm sort of becoming scared too.

If you can run windows programs on a mac.. why would developers develop mac os x programs?

It's O.K., don't be scared. Many years ago Apple sold Macs that also had PCs inside them, and that didn't drive the developers away.

I would say there is a small very long-term risk that Mac OS will die out, but what's interesting is that no-one has mentioned that this wouldn't actually lead to Apple's demise. They'd just become another Windows PC manufacturer.

Quote:
Originally posted by slughead
Also, I'm worried about viruses

Don't be.

Quote:
Originally posted by slughead
like the ones that crept in on OSX when it ran OS 9 as a VM.

?? Which were?
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