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Apple's "Boot Camp" beta runs Windows XP on Macs - Page 8

post #281 of 511
Originally posted by rob05au
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Apple should also make a version that would allow the same on PowerPC Macs. Why?
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Quote:
Originally posted by aegisdesign
There's already VirtualPC and Q, both of which are ten times more useful than BootCamp.

First off... Why would rob05au even think this would even be remotly possible on PowerPC based Mac. The only reason this was doable at all is due to the fact that the chips Apple uses now are Intel (x86ish based) chips.

Second when aegisdesign says "VirtualPC and Q ... ten times more useful" he MUST really mean VirtualPC and Q one tenth as compatible at one tenth the speed!

Because that's the real truth...

Dave
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post #282 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by aegisdesign
Do you need the exact programs or just alternatives?

Access = Filemaker
Project = xTime Project / Merlin
Visio = Omni Graffle

It's too bad about Project, because it used to be on the Mac as well. I wonder when they discontinued it?
post #283 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by DaveGee
Originally posted by rob05au
----
Apple should also make a version that would allow the same on PowerPC Macs. Why?
-----


First off... Why would rob05au even think this would even be remotly possible on PowerPC based Mac. The only reason this was doable at all is due to the fact that the chips Apple uses now are Intel (x86ish based) chips.

Waddya mean 'ish'? They ARE x86 chips. Last of the old guard P6 architecture chips.

A dual boot system however isn't reliant on the CPU being x86 though. You could, conceivably, boot into a limited emulation engine that had the sole purpose of providing a unified X86 hardware abstraction layer onto which Winows would run.

Quote:
Originally posted by DaveGee
Second when aegisdesign says "VirtualPC and Q ... ten times more useful" he MUST really mean VirtualPC and Q one tenth as compatible at one tenth the speed!

Because that's the real truth...

Dave

Have you actually used VirtualPC? It may have limited speed on PPC and a limited emulated set of hardware it supports but it has a number of things which make it much more useful than dual booting.

1) It doesn't require repartitioning your hard drive.
2) You can run more than one VirtualPC session - want to run 4 different versions of Windows simultaneously? You can with VPC.
3) You can store different Windows setups to test under as different virtual PCs.
4) It saves state when you quit VPC. Restart it and your VPC restarts where you left it.
5) You can drag and drop between Windows and Mac
6) You can use your Mac's network shares
7) You have a Mac running there right along side it
8) When your Windows install is hosed, you just restore from a disk image
9) You can run Linux with it
10) You can screenshot your windows session direct into your mac tools

So, there's ten ways in which VirtualPC is more useful than BootCamp which IMHO make it ten times more useful. Some of us don't really care about it's speed. All it has to do is run the app. What we do care about is having all our Mac software at hand instead of a reboot away. And that's the real truth.
post #284 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by geobe

hmurchison, you are a senior member too and I have a question for you. Do you think with this strategy from Apple, it gives Microsoft every excuse now to drop all mac software. They already dropped IE and WMP for Mac, now they can drop Mac Office.

No not really. I think MS bluffs about cancelling Office to keep Apple in line as well as they can. MS makes a profit on selling Office for Macs and no company likes to give profits up. MS doesn't make desktops or laptops they're all about selling the OS and Boot Camp sells more copies for them so I doubt they are that concerned as BC requires yet another Windows license. Steve Jobs is taking the risk that Mac users will find Windows "good enough"


Quote:
From where I sit, I would love to see Office for mac killed for 3 reasons

a_greer interesting post. Sometimes we find ourselves a bit too comfortable with the status quo and can't imagine a better tool. If Office suddenly left the platform it would be interesting to see who could fill the void.

I think Applications are going to have to compete more on their merits in the future. I think Apple will eventually have to forgo on locking OS X to their hardware. It eventually comes down to who designs the best software and hopefully there won't be so much file format lockdown. That's what the computing market needs. Interoperability.
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post #285 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
It's too bad about Project, because it used to be on the Mac as well. I wonder when they discontinued it?

I've an old copy I got when picked up a second hand SE/30. It's one of the better apps of that vintage too along with Word 5.1. Microsoft were doing something right then.

I'd guess the number of people doing project planning on a Mac would be fairly slim pickings and creative types are a bit more hap hazard in their project planning IME. Besides, I quite like xTime anyway...

http://www.app4mac.com/xtimeproject.html
post #286 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
a_greer interesting post. Sometimes we find ourselves a bit too comfortable with the status quo and can't imagine a better tool. If Office suddenly left the platform it would be interesting to see who could fill the void.

It'd certainly give Apple more room and incentive to grow iWork. I think they will anyway. They've done it already pushing against Adobe with their pro video tools and to some extent with their creative tools. They'll surely do the same against Microsoft with Office.

It'd be a real shame to put all that core framework in place to have it not used by Adobe and Microsoft with their lowest common denominator shared UI tools. I can't see Apple and in particular Jobs settling for that. Leopard will be the point where Apple takes the application initiative now they've sorted out the OS and hardware.
post #287 of 511
This has to be a low point for Apple. Sure it made them money, but Apple is known more for class than sheer greed. One thing you'll never see is Ferrari supporting Ford parts because there are more Ford parts available to their customers.

This whole Windows on a Mac thing makes me sick in principle alone. The fact that so many Mac users are jumping in bed with Bill lets you really know the state of affairs for Apple users.

For those of us that still believe that Steve is looking out for us rather than selling us out, I'd like to think that this wasn't Steve's idea and that this was forced on him. It's like Boeing telling Airbus that they will start buying their avionics from them.

It's a sad day when people get on their knees and beg for Windows on a Mac.

It really is a cold day in Hell.
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post #288 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by Brian Green
This has to be a low point for Apple. Sure it made them money, but Apple is known more for class than sheer greed. One thing you'll never see is Ferrari supporting Ford parts because there are more Ford parts available to their customers.

This whole Windows on a Mac thing makes me sick in principle alone. The fact that so many Mac users are jumping in bed with Bill lets you really know the state of affairs for Apple users.

For those of us that still believe that Steve is looking out for us rather than selling us out, I'd like to think that this wasn't Steve's idea and that this was forced on him. It's like Boeing telling Airbus that they will start buying their avionics from them.

It's a sad day when people get on their knees and beg for Windows on a Mac.

It really is a cold day in Hell.

Yeah it's a bad idea to potentially increase market share.
post #289 of 511
Brian

We really have to ask ourselves, "Why should platforms matter"? Personally I find that despite the huge advantage in marketshare PCs simply do not have enough great apps. I think that if Apple and 3rd party developers continue to make cool applications and utilize cool technologies OS X will be the preferred OS regardless on whether you have the ability to run Linux or Windows.
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post #290 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by backtomac
Yeah it's a bad idea to potentially increase market share.

It could also potentially decrease market share. OSX was gradually increasing share, slowly but surely. Adding Windows support may rapidly increase share, it may decrease it. Who knows. It's a risk that need not have been made.

However, for those of us that care about OS design, that have seen good operating systems die at the feet of the crap coming out of Redmond, that have used Amigas, OS/2, BeOS and watched good design die or be squashed, the prospect of letting Windows run on a Mac is akin to Le Corbusier painting the Villa Savoye purple and adding horse brasses.

And if you don't know who Le Corbusier is you should probably be running Windows on a Dell.
post #291 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
Brian

We really have to ask ourselves, "Why should platforms matter"? Personally I find that despite the huge advantage in marketshare PCs simply do not have enough great apps. I think that if Apple and 3rd party developers continue to make cool applications and utilize cool technologies OS X will be the preferred OS regardless on whether you have the ability to run Linux or Windows.

Exactly. Platforms DO matter. OSX provides some really cool core technologies on which to build applications. But getting that across to developers who only look at marketshare isn't easy it seems.

So, Apple will have to double it's efforts to make sure more developers are convinced of how cool OSX and Cocoa are in the same way the only reason NeXT did any business was because of how cool NeXTStep and WebObjects was. Platforms matter, not the hardware.
post #292 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by aegisdesign
It could also potentially decrease market share. OSX was gradually increasing share, slowly but surely. Adding Windows support may rapidly increase share, it may decrease it. Who knows. It's a risk that need not have been made.

However, for those of us that care about OS design, that have seen good operating systems die at the feet of the crap coming out of Redmond, that have used Amigas, OS/2, BeOS and watched good design die or be squashed, the prospect of letting Windows run on a Mac is akin to Le Corbusier painting the Villa Savoye purple and adding horse brasses.

And if you don't know who Le Corbusier is you should probably be running Windows on a Dell.

Fair enough, it could decrease market. I'm of the opinion that it would more likely increase market share. Deep down I suspect you think it would increase market share as well. I personally am more interested in a virtual solution and am looking a parellels. However for some people boot camp may make more sense.
post #293 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by nostyleart
does windows ruin at full speed? cause i only want to use it for pc gaming..

Check out this video of a guy running Battlefield 2 with nice framerates on his 1.8GHz dual-core iMac!

http://web.mac.com/richardpride/iWeb/Site/Movie.html
post #294 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by backtomac
Fair enough, it could decrease market. I'm of the opinion that it would more likely increase market share. Deep down I suspect you think it would increase market share as well. I personally am more interested in a virtual solution and am looking a parellels. However for some people boot camp may make more sense.

Nope. I've no doubt that this will increase market share for Mac sales and since each one comes with MacOSX, increase MacOSX market share too. Then again if each MacOSX user also buys Windows then there's no real market share gain though of course you'll see Jobs crowing over hardware sales. I suspect what will happen in reality is people will buy Macs and use old licences of Windows or nick a copy from work.

What I have doubts over is whether this will increase the number of fulltime users of MacOSX and increase the number of MacOSX native developers. It dilutes the message over what a Mac is about and introduces uncertainty for developers. Back when Jobs announced the switch he said that the OS was the soul of the Mac. So, he's ditched the hardware and you can replace the soul now. What's left?

Deep down personally, I think OSX is strong enough to prosper. But please, please, please Apple, give us something really shit-hot for 10.5 that makes Vista look like Windows 3.0 by comparison.
post #295 of 511
I think there are a series of steps that could allow Apple to win win win here.

* Boot Camp/Virtualization: Run practically any OS
* Cheaper Hardware for the Windoze Crew (Mac Mini)
* Intel processors for new portables (Tablets, handheld devices, smaller laptops are now easier to produce and it levels the platform and puts the Mac vs Windows issue on a level playing field.
* Mac OS X Leopard
* iPod (and possible future devices) will be grabbing mind share amongst the new kids
* Apple is gradually increasing their software base. If Adobe or Microsoft kicked off; Aperture is waiting to take on Photoshop, Motion for After FX, iWork for Office and so on. These apps are primitive today but as they evolve they have the potential to grab mindshare, increase their feature sets and take on the golden oldies. This grouped with Apples own innovations such as iLife with iWeb etc and the platform is ever expanding.
* Also.... a lot of people have been voicing concerns over Mac Gaming but I seem to remember Apple advertising for quite a few positions related to Open GL, Game developers etc about 12-18 months ago. This is probably the kind of development going to be unveiled with Leopard. I'm certain Apple will bring a fresh assault on the games market in the not too distant future.

Start adding these things together and you can see that the next 5 to 10 years are going to be the most exciting times for the Macintosh platform
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post #296 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by aegisdesign
Nope. I've no doubt that this will increase market share for Mac sales and since each one comes with MacOSX, increase MacOSX market share too. Then again if each MacOSX user also buys Windows then there's no real market share gain though of course you'll see Jobs crowing over hardware sales. I suspect what will happen in reality is people will buy Macs and use old licences of Windows or nick a copy from work.

What I have doubts over is whether this will increase the number of fulltime users of MacOSX and increase the number of MacOSX native developers. It dilutes the message over what a Mac is about and introduces uncertainty for developers. Back when Jobs announced the switch he said that the OS was the soul of the Mac. So, he's ditched the hardware and you can replace the soul now. What's left?

Deep down personally, I think OSX is strong enough to prosper. But please, please, please Apple, give us something really shit-hot for 10.5 that makes Vista look like Windows 3.0 by comparison.

After having a day to reflect on this situation, I think a lot of people have read too much into this event. I still think mainly geeks will utilize this option. I don't think you will see ma / pa shops or kids doing this. UNLESS Apple starts selling macs with xp already on them. I do think this could be a problem, but I don't see it being as widespread as everyone seems to be making it.

It's great that I have the option to install linux or windows now. I have already spoke with developers about it and this is one of their replies:

Quote:
I am actually _very_ excited about it
because I need to get a new PC bad
and a new Mac and this makes it awesome
so now I need to start saving - cause as soon as the Intel Mac towers come out - I am definitely getting one - will save me a lot of space and would just be great

Another mac hardware sale... I think this whole deal has to do with getting developers on macs. Maybe they will use windows 60% of the time and OS X 40% of the time... that is 40% more of the time than they were using it before. Maybe that % will grow over time. I say this will definitely increase market share which will open devs eyes to the platform.

On the same token. I want to point something out. Aspyr's CEO explained to the press that he is weary about future sales. I think this is the time when we as users need to support our faithful companies that have been with us for years. If you're a gamer... and something new comes out... buy it instead of pirating it. Unless you don't want mac games any more...

 

 

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post #297 of 511
Quote:
But, you see, that situation was VERY different. At the time, most of Avid's users were STILL on the Mac. Not the other way around.

It was different in that Apple was near death. That was primarily the reason Avid was leaving the platform.

This is an example of where the user did not just follow the software. This is an example where people said we don't want to use Windows we want to use Mac OS. In-spite of the fact that Avid was trying to move everyone over to Windows.


Quote:
But if their customer base had been slowely moving over to NT on their own, until most of them moved over, we might not see Avid on the Mac today.

Right it would be a totally different thing if Avid customers chose to use Windows systems.

As in today I don't see too many people choosing to buy Macs, buy the Windows operating system to run on their Mac, to then buy Windows software. When they could have bought a Windows computer in the first place. They bought the Mac because they want to use Mac OS X.
post #298 of 511
Quote:
I think a lot of people have read too much into this event. I still think mainly geeks will utilize this option.

I agree most everyone I know who owns a Mac, bought the Mac to use OS X. They would have bought a Dell if they wanted to use Windows.

Another larger group of people I know who I am convincing to buy Macs don't really care about Windows or Mac OS, they just want a computer that works. It is highly unlikely this group would go through the trouble of dual booting Windows on a Mac.

Apple is taking a big gamble but more than likely in reality over 50% of Mac users will never boot Windows on their computers. I think an over all smaller group of Mac users who work in Windows based environments will use this option and perhaps would have never owned a Mac if the option were not available.

Plus there are tens of millions of PowerPC Macs that will be around for years that will never be able to dual boot Windows.
post #299 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by TenoBell
As in today I don't see too many people choosing to buy Macs, buy the Windows operating system to run on their Mac, to then buy Windows software. When they could have bought a Windows computer in the first place. They bought the Mac because they want to use Mac OS X.

Whilst that's true, I've one user who has to use AutoCAD. He's happy - Mac CAD companies just lost a sale though.

Plus, when I moved to the Mac I had to buy a LOT of Mac software I needed. If I was a Windows switcher today with an investment in Windows software, I wouldn't have to. Maybe it's my ex-development background but the switch and being able to run Windows apps makes me moderately nervous about the future.

Perhaps it's just time for developers to rally around and produce something compelling to make new switchers stick to OSX.
post #300 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by aegisdesign
Whilst that's true, I've one user who has to use AutoCAD. He's happy - Mac CAD companies just lost a sale though.

No, if he *HAS* to use AutoCAD, then no Mac developer was going to meet his needs in the first place, were they? No sale lost.

OTOH, if he *WANTED* to use a Mac, but *HAD* to use AutoCAD... it might just be that Apple just gained a sale.
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post #301 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by Kickaha
No, if he *HAS* to use AutoCAD, then no Mac developer was going to meet his needs in the first place, were they? No sale lost.

OTOH, if he *WANTED* to use a Mac, but *HAD* to use AutoCAD... it might just be that Apple just gained a sale.

Exactly

 

 

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post #302 of 511
First of all, as a recent iMac CD buyer, I am very excited about this news. I love to have options, and my experience w/VPC has been spotty at best. Over the past few months, I have talked to a few people who said that they would buy a Mac if the dual boot rumors came true. I'm looking forward to having the ability, so that I can take advantage of PC-only sw that I've been eyeing.

But...I would rather have virtualization.

From a tech stand-point...is this a feasible expectation? I know NOTHING about virtualization, but it seems like it would drag down your system very quickly. Two questions about virtualization: 1) does the inactive OS go to 'sleep' when not active? 2) Do both OS have direct access to the CPU, etc?
post #303 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by Kickaha
No, if he *HAS* to use AutoCAD, then no Mac developer was going to meet his needs in the first place, were they? No sale lost.

OTOH, if he *WANTED* to use a Mac, but *HAD* to use AutoCAD... it might just be that Apple just gained a sale.

Sigh.

NO. He would have used one of the Mac alternatives and output AutoCAD format files and put up with minor file compatibility niggles transferring his drawings to Taiwan where the drawings are turned into welded bits of metal and CNC machining. He's always had a Mac so Apple hasn't gained anything.

Taiwan needed the files in AutoCAD format. In the past though, the Mac tools he's been using have had minor issues which can usually be worked around if you know them and can explain them to the Taiwanese builders - not always easy. Occasionally he'd come across a new problem though. Now he doesn't have the niggles and he knows the files are 100% compatible.

Heck, never mind AutoCAD, I get enough issues from PC word users sending me incompatible files. "No, I don't have Blippo-Comic-New-Roman-Oblique font installed on my Mac'...
post #304 of 511
Quote:
Plus, when I moved to the Mac I had to buy a LOT of Mac software I needed. If I was a Windows switcher today with an investment in Windows software, I wouldn't have to.

This would defeat switching in the first place.


Quote:
NO. He would have used one of the Mac alternatives and output AutoCAD format files

So this friend sounds like someone who wants to primarily use OS X but needs to use AutoCAD. Which is the purpose of Boot Camp, allows this friend own a Mac use OS X while not giving up AutoCAD.

This is different from the majority of Mac users primarily using Windows.
post #305 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by TenoBell
This would defeat switching in the first place.

I don't follow. I switched from BeOS so I was down for buying new software anyway. If I was coming from Windows though, being able to carry over a load of Windows software means I wouldn't have to buy Mac software and I could use Windows software until I got around to buying new software. ie. Mac developers lost a sale till later.


Quote:
Originally posted by TenoBell
So this friend sounds like someone who wants to primarily use OS X but needs to use AutoCAD. Which is the purpose of Boot Camp, allows this friend own a Mac use OS X while not giving up AutoCAD.

This is different from the majority of Mac users primarily using Windows.

So in essence, as I said, it's great for him, bad for the Mac developers as they've lost a sale.

Am I getting through yet...?

Being able to run Windows apps is good for users in the short term, bad for Mac developers up against the big Windows only apps. Many developers chose the relative sanctuary of developing on the Mac to avoid having to compete with Microsoft or AutoDesk or whatever huge software corp.
post #306 of 511
Quote:
If I was coming from Windows though, being able to carry over a load of Windows software means I wouldn't have to buy Mac software and I could use Windows software until I got around to buying new software. ie. Mac developers lost a sale till later.

In the current situation. You would buy a Macintosh, load Windows, to use your old Windows software. Nothing has really changed but the hardware.

Quote:
So in essence, as I said, it's great for him, bad for the Mac developers as they've lost a sale.

No I don't get it. No Mac developers make AutoCAD. If he needed AutoCAD he needs Windows to run it.

I know people who have never owned Macs buy one specifically to use Final Cut Pro. FCP doesn't run on Windows and they don't want to use Premiere.
post #307 of 511
Pretty off topic for sure, but all of a sudden it makes
perfectly sense considering a Mac can likely have a
VIRUS .
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post #308 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by Kickaha


Viruses? OS9? What the heck are you talking about??

I think he means the Netscape vulnerability that was discovered quite some time now. There was a possible exploit if you were running Netscape (I don't remember which version) under Classic. This could affect the Mac OS X installation. Not that it matters now, just because you asked.
post #309 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
Virus's in Windows, sure. But that won't affect the Mac OS or partitions.

Oh yes, they can do damage if you catch them while you run Windows. From Apple's own page:


Word to the Wise

Windows running on a Mac is like Windows running on a PC. That means itll be subject to the same attacks that plague the Windows world. So be sure to keep it updated with the latest Microsoft Windows security fixes.
post #310 of 511
I know people have talked about OS X getting proof of concept viruses... but nothing has hit yet.

Would be ironic that the only way to get a real widespread mac virus is by having windows installed. LOL @ THAT

 

 

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post #311 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by emig647
Would be ironic that the only way to get a real widespread mac virus is by having windows installed. LOL @ THAT

Yes. Very funny indeed.
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post #312 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by Vox Barbara
Yes. Very funny indeed.

But it will happen. It is a matter of days, weeks at most.
post #313 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by PB
But it will happen. It is a matter of days, weeks at most.

Maybe, Maybe not. Windows XP SP2 is a bit better than sp1... needless to say I haven't got 1 virus on XP SP2 yet... but i'm not an idiot. If i think I'm browsing possible virus pages I use my mac. So that could be part of it. SP1 I always go viruses even with Sygate Firewall AND NAV 2004. *shrugs*... It will happen but I think it will take a bit. Who knows... maybe it already has happened and the user don't know it yet.

 

 

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post #314 of 511
i'm posting this from inside XP on my mac. It's hella fast. Kinda shows how badly the finder need reworked.Of course XP is annoying as hell... but now I can use it at the office for all those tasks it needs.

At WWDC Apple will preview their partnership with Xen, and the new hardware abstraction layer. They will also show running OS, inside another window, or similar virtual desktops (fast user switching)
post #315 of 511
if im not mistaken, XP and OSX use different file systems?

is the XP partition accesable from within OSX and vice versa?

What im hoping is to use the windows partition for photoshop only until CS3 comes out, but i need to have access to my picture from within both operating systems.

Sorry if this question has already been asked/answered...
post #316 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by TenoBell
No I don't get it. No Mac developers make AutoCAD. If he needed AutoCAD he needs Windows to run it.

Obviously you don't get it.

He has a Mac already. Before Bootcamp/Parallels he'd have bought say VectorWorks to do CAD and produce AutoCAD format files. VectorWorks is a great application and arguably better than AutoCAD. However, it's file output isn't perfectly compatible. Now he buys AutoCAD as it's 100% compatible with AutoCAD. Mac developers 0, Windows 1.

Now multiply across multiple product categories.
post #317 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by PB
But it will happen. It is a matter of days, weeks at most.

Minutes usually.
post #318 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by zpapasmurf
if im not mistaken, XP and OSX use different file systems?

is the XP partition accesable from within OSX and vice versa?

If it's NTFS formatted it's readable from OSX but not writable. If it's FAT32, both ways.

From Windows you need to buy a copy of MacDrive to read Mac formatted disks.

Quote:
Originally posted by zpapasmurf
What im hoping is to use the windows partition for photoshop only until CS3 comes out, but i need to have access to my picture from within both operating systems.

Sorry if this question has already been asked/answered...

You'd maybe be better off with Parallels otherwise you'll be rebootign back and forth. http://www.parallels.com/
post #319 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by TenoBell
It was different in that Apple was near death. That was primarily the reason Avid was leaving the platform.

This is an example of where the user did not just follow the software. This is an example where people said we don't want to use Windows we want to use Mac OS. In-spite of the fact that Avid was trying to move everyone over to Windows.




Right it would be a totally different thing if Avid customers chose to use Windows systems.

As in today I don't see too many people choosing to buy Macs, buy the Windows operating system to run on their Mac, to then buy Windows software. When they could have bought a Windows computer in the first place. They bought the Mac because they want to use Mac OS X.

I wouldn't say that Apple was near death. It still had 8% marketshare, and a good amount of money in the bank. After Jobs took over, that kept falling. It's only been recently that it started to rise again.

Back then, buying windows to run at greatly reduced rates, was not a serious option for most software. I used Softwindows for years. Then I also bought VPC. But, truth be told, I spent most of my time on the platform updating the OS, and downloading security fixes. Not a very worthwhile activity, I can tell you!

But, this is different. Mossbergs article about Boot Camp today, in the WSJ, was very encouraging, as have been the others we've been seeing. One of the first things I'll be doing when I get my new "PowerMac" will be to install Windows, after, of course, I let Apple's software bring all my stuff over from my current machines.

I'm fortunate in that I can afford to play with these things, even though I may not need them. I only use a few things from Windows, but it is fun when I do it.

Startling my friends with the windows startup screen was always great fun too. Now though, they are very interested in this. Where before, VPC was totally inadequate to make them move over, this might do it. They've been asking me if this was possible ever since Apple said that they were switching back in June.
post #320 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by Kickaha
No, if he *HAS* to use AutoCAD, then no Mac developer was going to meet his needs in the first place, were they? No sale lost.

OTOH, if he *WANTED* to use a Mac, but *HAD* to use AutoCAD... it might just be that Apple just gained a sale.

I've done a lot of work with CAD myself, and architectural renderings.

My favorite program was Bentley CAD. Where is that now?

Versa CAD for the Mac competes very well in Europe with Auto CAD, but not here, though late last year they announced that they were reorganizing their N American division, so as to make a bigger push into our market. I truly wish them well. I have had the pleasure of meeting I M Pei's son a number of times. His preferred personal computer is a Mac. But the business can't use them here. Too bad. And, as much as I like VectorWorks, it's not really a competing product, on the high end.

EDIT for spelling. sigh!
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