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Apple's "Boot Camp" beta runs Windows XP on Macs - Page 9

post #321 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by aegisdesign
[B]I don't follow. I switched from BeOS so I was down for buying new software anyway. If I was coming from Windows though, being able to carry over a load of Windows software means I wouldn't have to buy Mac software and I could use Windows software until I got around to buying new software. ie. Mac developers lost a sale till later.

Yes!



Quote:
So in essence, as I said, it's great for him, bad for the Mac developers as they've lost a sale.

Am I getting through yet...?

Being able to run Windows apps is good for users in the short term, bad for Mac developers up against the big Windows only apps. Many developers chose the relative sanctuary of developing on the Mac to avoid having to compete with Microsoft or AutoDesk or whatever huge software corp.

And Yes!
post #322 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by PB
Oh yes, they can do damage if you catch them while you run Windows. From Apple's own page:


Word to the Wise

Windows running on a Mac is like Windows running on a PC. That means itll be subject to the same attacks that plague the Windows world. So be sure to keep it updated with the latest Microsoft Windows security fixes.

I read that. They aren't saying that your Mac partition will get a Windows virus. They are saying that your Windows partition will get a Windows virus.

It has nothing to do with the fact that they are on the same machine. A Windows virus simply doesn't attack OS X. And. if it should ever come to it, the same thing is true for an OS X virus.

I got virus's through Windows when running VPC, but they never caused a problem for OS X. That hasn't changed. It's been debunked that because Mac's are now on x86 that they are more susceptible to Windows virus's.
post #323 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by aegisdesign
Deep down personally, I think OSX is strong enough to prosper. But please, please, please Apple, give us something really shit-hot for 10.5 that makes Vista look like Windows 3.0 by comparison.

shit-hot? so...lukewarm and smelly? I'll settle for a new finder.
My computer can beat up your computer.
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My computer can beat up your computer.
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post #324 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by mynamehere
shit-hot? so...lukewarm and smelly? I'll settle for a new finder.

A new finder! Ha ha ha!

we've been expecting a new, or at least a fixed finder for years.

While it's always possible, like the holy grail, the rez independent finder. You should spend your efforts hoping for something that is much more likely to arrive like, well, anything else!
post #325 of 511
One of the biggest Diggs since Digg was formed in 2004! This is a big deal. Even people who know little about computers were talking to me about it today!


Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #326 of 511
Quote:
He has a Mac already. Before Bootcamp/Parallels he'd have bought say VectorWorks to do CAD and produce AutoCAD format files. VectorWorks is a great application and arguably better than AutoCAD. However, it's file output isn't perfectly compatible. Now he buys AutoCAD as it's 100% compatible with AutoCAD. Mac developers 0, Windows 1.

He has a Mac already. Boot camp was just announced yesterday and before that no one knew it was going to exist. If VectorWorks was fine enough why doesn't he own it already? That leads me to believe he really wanted AutoCAD.

Also as far as I can think this is one rare occasion where major software dominates its industry is Windows only.

I can't think of much other major software in that same position.
post #327 of 511
To look at it another way.

What if Macs market share grows to the place where AutoDesk sees it has an important platform to develop for. Would that improve or erode sales of other Mac CAD developers?
post #328 of 511
Originally posted by aegisdesign
So, there's ten ways in which VirtualPC is more useful than BootCamp which IMHO make it ten times more useful. Some of us don't really care about it's speed. All it has to do is run the app. What we do care about is having all our Mac software at hand instead of a reboot away. And that's the real truth.



Someone really needs to try the beta of Parallels VPC and see how performance and features stack up:

http://www.parallels.com/en/products/workstation/mac/



post #329 of 511
Originally posted by Placebo
Check out this video of a guy running Battlefield 2 with nice framerates on his 1.8GHz dual-core iMac!
http://web.mac.com/richardpride/iWeb/Site/Movie.html



GPU, Games and Directx(hopefully 9.0c) compatibility is really awesome. I bet tons of iMac users that want to play PC games like Quake4, Battlefield 2, HL2, F.E.A.R or RTS or whatever are jumping for joy. The x1600 is no slouch, it supports Microsoft DirectX 9.0C and OpenGL 2.0. 3800 3dmark05s is not bad, it means it'll play most modern games on "medium" settings* at decent frame rates.

We've seen Battlefield2 is compatible and plays decently. Hopefully a lot other PC games will show up as compatible as well.

*say 2x AA, 8x AF, medium textures and shaders, etc.
post #330 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by sunilraman
Originally posted by Placebo
Check out this video of a guy running Battlefield 2 with nice framerates on his 1.8GHz dual-core iMac!
http://web.mac.com/richardpride/iWeb/Site/Movie.html



GPU, Games and Directx(hopefully 9.0c) compatibility is really awesome. I bet tons of iMac users that want to play PC games like Quake4, Battlefield 2, HL2, F.E.A.R or RTS or whatever are jumping for joy. The x1600 is no slouch, it supports Microsoft DirectX 9.0C and OpenGL 2.0. 3800 3dmark05s is not bad, it means it'll play most modern games on "medium" settings* at decent frame rates.

We've seen Battlefield2 is compatible and plays decently. Hopefully a lot other PC games will show up as compatible as well.

*say 2x AA, 8x AF, medium textures and shaders, etc.

I saw an even better video demonstrating HL2. I'd say that the Mac game companies do not have long for this world, and good riddance.
Apple has no competition. Every commercial product which competes directly with an Apple product gives the distinct impression that, Where it is original, it is not good, and where it is good, it...
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Apple has no competition. Every commercial product which competes directly with an Apple product gives the distinct impression that, Where it is original, it is not good, and where it is good, it...
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post #331 of 511
For me HL2 was one of the best FPS I have ever played, with an absolutely chilling storyline. The static-y Combine voices will resonate in my head for quite some time. And the laser-guided rocket launcher battles with the gunships, phew. And the last bit *spoiler warning* with using the gravity gun to chuck energy balls at Combine forces.... absolutely awesome.

F.E.A.R. IMHO not as good as HL2 but freaky and fun bullet-timing pumping rounds of ammo into Replicants up close.

Mac users deserve now to experience these sort of games. Well, the violence is a bit over-the-top sometimes, but, whatever

HL2:Lost Coast looks fracking superb too. HDR is fun
post #332 of 511
I have mixed feelings on this.

In effect Steve went "all in" with this move.

In the short term it will make the stock go nuts and make Apple sell 'puters.

The long term is the unknown. The Commodore Amiga went this route by being able to run multiple OS's. In the end, it died a horrid death as developers didn't bother to make Amiga software or made piss poor Amiga versions... As customers could boot in other OS's, why bother making an Amiga version?

The long-term future? Here's hoping that Steve made the right call...

For those of you old enough to remember when the Commodore 64 brought the clueless masses online and trashed the party... I'm praying we don't see a repeat performance.

Corey
post #333 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by zpapasmurf
if im not mistaken, XP and OSX use different file systems?

is the XP partition accesable from within OSX and vice versa?

What im hoping is to use the windows partition for photoshop only until CS3 comes out, but i need to have access to my picture from within both operating systems.

Sorry if this question has already been asked/answered...

Short answer: You can read and write to mac os x from windows but you can't read and write to the windows partition from mac os x. you can only read.

Basically NTFS is a closed standard, but there is open source code for it. To be able to read the HFS+ format from windows you will need Macdrive. I actually stuck an HFS+ formatted harddrive in my PC because it had all my mp3's on it and Macdrive let me modify it normally.

There have been posts confirming this already.

 

 

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The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

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The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

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post #334 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by Mac Voyer
I saw an even better video demonstrating HL2. I'd say that the Mac game companies do not have long for this world, and good riddance.

Wow... really? Kind of snide eh? I think that is sad. Mac gaming companies have brought us years of entertainment and that is how you treat them? Pardon my french but that's f*cked up. These developers have taken low wages and countless hours of work in order to bring a small piece of entertainment to the mac. If this is how loyal of a mac user you are... I say go buy a pc and be gone.

 

 

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The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

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The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

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post #335 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by emig647
Wow... really? Kind of snide eh? I think that is sad. Mac gaming companies have brought us years of entertainment and that is how you treat them? Pardon my french but that's f*cked up. These developers have taken low wages and countless hours of work in order to bring a small piece of entertainment to the mac. If this is how loyal of a mac user you are... I say go buy a pc and be gone.

+++
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post #336 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by TenoBell
To look at it another way.

What if Macs market share grows to the place where AutoDesk sees it has an important platform to develop for. Would that improve or erode sales of other Mac CAD developers?

Right now, except for Versa CAD, there is no competitor to Auto CAD, in its space. While it's nice to think that several other programs compete, they don't any more than other programs compete with Photoshop in its space.
post #337 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by Corey
I have mixed feelings on this.

In effect Steve went "all in" with this move.

In the short term it will make the stock go nuts and make Apple sell 'puters.

The long term is the unknown. The Commodore Amiga went this route by being able to run multiple OS's. In the end, it died a horrid death as developers didn't bother to make Amiga software or made piss poor Amiga versions... As customers could boot in other OS's, why bother making an Amiga version?

The long-term future? Here's hoping that Steve made the right call...

For those of you old enough to remember when the Commodore 64 brought the clueless masses online and trashed the party... I'm praying we don't see a repeat performance.

Corey

The Amiga died a horrible death because it was owned by a company that was useless. The Amiga didn't receive support from Commodore. It had nothing to do with multiple OS's.
post #338 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by Corey
I have mixed feelings on this.

In effect Steve went "all in" with this move.

In the short term it will make the stock go nuts and make Apple sell 'puters.

The long term is the unknown. The Commodore Amiga went this route by being able to run multiple OS's. In the end, it died a horrid death as developers didn't bother to make Amiga software or made piss poor Amiga versions... As customers could boot in other OS's, why bother making an Amiga version?

The long-term future? Here's hoping that Steve made the right call...

For those of you old enough to remember when the Commodore 64 brought the clueless masses online and trashed the party... I'm praying we don't see a repeat performance.

Corey

It doesn't matter if steve made the decision or not. It was going to..... / ALREADY did happen. And from this point it was only going to get easier and easier to dual boot. Steve made the decision a long time ago when he decided apple was moving to x86.

 

 

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The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

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The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

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post #339 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
The Amiga died a horrible death because it was owned by a company that was useless. The Amiga didn't receive support from Commodore. It had nothing to do with multiple OS's.

What about OS/2?

I'm honestly asking, because I heard that Windows support was how we never heard of that OS again.

I'm betting, though, that OS X's advantage over these two is that it is just SO much nicer to use. To an incredible degree. Efficiency, beauty...you guys know the drill.

On another bright note, I'm seeling my PC.
post #340 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by Haberdasher
What about OS/2?

I'm honestly asking, because I heard that Windows support was how we never heard of that OS again.

I'm betting, though, that OS X's advantage over these two is that it is just SO much nicer to use. To an incredible degree. Efficiency, beauty...you guys know the drill.

On another bright note, I'm seeling my PC.

OS/2 was a different story.

Back when IBM still had over 27% marketshare, and they were working with Apple on an OS called "Pink", they were also selling OS/2.

At the time, OS/2 was the most advanced OS out there for PC's.

So, when the software division proposed that IBM, which was selling their machines with Windows installed, sell their machines instead, with OS/2 installed, and make Windows optional, instead of the other way around, the hardware division screamed bloody murder! They were sure that doing that would cut into hardware sales. They refused. There wasn't much direction at the top in IBM at the time to force the change.

The thing was that there was a good community of OS/2 developers growing, at the time, and it was considered to be a good move by analysts in the industry.

But, the failure of IBM to do that, and subsequently, to essentially stop pushing for it on the desktop, led to its slow death.

Banks, and other large financial institutions relied on OS/2 for years after the general marketplace abandoned it.

Everything that Windows 2000 was, was already in OS/2 when MS was still struggling with 95. Except that OS/2 didn't crash nearly as often, and was far more secure from the get go, as it was designed for that purpose.
post #341 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by emig647
Wow... really? Kind of snide eh? I think that is sad. Mac gaming companies have brought us years of entertainment and that is how you treat them? Pardon my french but that's f*cked up. These developers have taken low wages and countless hours of work in order to bring a small piece of entertainment to the mac. If this is how loyal of a mac user you are... I say go buy a pc and be gone.

Let's just say we have a difference of opinion.

I suppose something is better than nothing. But let's face it. How many original games have these companies come out with? We have seen one not so good port after another, crumbs from the rich man's table. Where are the great Mac only FPS? Where is pool? Where are the really great board games? I know, there are a few, but very few. Very few games appear on Mac shelves and most of those require classic if they work at all with OS X. I am tired of searching for shareware or free-ware for a decent game of dominos. I am not a high-end gamer but even I am not satisfied with the options available. How long will you be happy with the fact that gaming and Mac is an oxymoron? This is not cool and not necessary. Don't ask me to shed crocodile tears over the fate of companies who allowed us to remain the laughing stock of that particular industry for so long. They could have made great games for what the Mac could do. They just didn't. Now that Windows can run natively on Macs, and soon, with virtualization, (if not already, think Parallels), I will probably never buy another Mac game again. Thanks for the bad port one year later. But how about making a game so creative that PC users would want to port to Windows?
Apple has no competition. Every commercial product which competes directly with an Apple product gives the distinct impression that, Where it is original, it is not good, and where it is good, it...
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Apple has no competition. Every commercial product which competes directly with an Apple product gives the distinct impression that, Where it is original, it is not good, and where it is good, it...
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post #342 of 511
Originally posted by emig647
..... Mac gaming companies have brought us years of entertainment and that is how you treat them? Pardon my french but that's f*cked up. These developers have taken low wages and countless hours of work in order to bring a small piece of entertainment to the mac.......



I would have to agree that I'm thinking of Aspyr now and they must realised they're (don't excuse my french) utterly FUCKED. Gamers tend to be a bit more hacky (games are quite complex nowadays so they do require a bit of smartness to play) so they are definitely going to be dual-booting to WinXP2 to play PC games.

I sympathise with Aspyr and Mac game developers in general. Call of Duty 2 for Mac is just about to be released.
post #343 of 511
I'm feeling torn. On one hand I feel happy for the gamers because they get to experience titles in a timely fashion, and great experiences IMHO such as HL2, F.E.A.R., DawnOfWar, AgeOfEmpires3, CounterStrike, etc, etc... But like I mentioned above, Aspyr and Mac game developers are (my favourite twisted expression) drowning in a creek with a paddle up their ass.
post #344 of 511
The gaming companies did it to themselves. I've purchased all the games I own. I haven't pirated anything. I've been supportive of them. But they never chose to take Mac users seriously. We always got our ports later than the Windows folks. It's sad that we've been ignored for so long that we have to resort to running Windows on our Macs just to get a decent game at a reasonable time.
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post #345 of 511
Originally posted by DaveGee
+++


Umm... Mate your post is a little cryptic. Care to clarify your thoughts?
post #346 of 511
Melgross what's your take on the gaming situation (debate). Coz we always like your opinions
post #347 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by emig647
If this is how loyal of a mac user you are... I say go buy a pc and be gone.

Sorry, forgot to comment on this in my last post.

What do you mean by loyal Mac user? You've got to be joking, right? I am as loyal to Apple and SJ as they are to me. They care only about their bottom line. I care about mine. All as it should be. This notion of blind loyalty to a brand smacks of the kind of fanaticism that has made Apple a niche group of freaks in the eyes of most of the world. Apple doesn't need loyalty. They need a savvy and happy clientele who demands continued excellence and who will not tolerate a sub-par effort. The truly loyal hold their company to the highest standards. The condition of Mac gaming over the years has not represented the best of what Apple, or these other companies could have offered imo.

As for your last comment, I hope you were just upset at the time. "Buy a PC and be gone!" Are you nuts? That is exactly what you don't want to happen. Let me get this straight. I don't have enough loyalty to Mac game porters and for this I should abandon the Mac, or be exiled. Do you know how fruity that sounds? Fortunately for you, o loyal one, Apple disagrees. They believe it is better that I run Windows on a Mac for my game break and anything else they don't offer, rather than to leave the platform.

I was going to nominate you as the next CEO of Apple. But after your post, I am afraid I am going to have to withdraw my vote.
Apple has no competition. Every commercial product which competes directly with an Apple product gives the distinct impression that, Where it is original, it is not good, and where it is good, it...
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Apple has no competition. Every commercial product which competes directly with an Apple product gives the distinct impression that, Where it is original, it is not good, and where it is good, it...
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post #348 of 511
Originally posted by Haberdasher
What about OS/2? .... I'm honestly asking, because I heard that Windows support was how we never heard of that OS again.



Wow... OS/2... Very few born after 1980 [26 and under] would know what the hell OS/2 is/was.
post #349 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by Mac Voyer
Let's just say we have a difference of opinion.

I suppose something is better than nothing. But let's face it. How many original games have these companies come out with? We have seen one not so good port after another, crumbs from the rich man's table. Where are the great Mac only FPS? Where is pool? Where are the really great board games? I know, there are a few, but very few. Very few games appear on Mac shelves and most of those require classic if they work at all with OS X. I am tired of searching for shareware or free-ware for a decent game of dominos. I am not a high-end gamer but even I am not satisfied with the options available. How long will you be happy with the fact that gaming and Mac is an oxymoron? This is not cool and not necessary. Don't ask me to shed crocodile tears over the fate of companies who allowed us to remain the laughing stock of that particular industry for so long. They could have made great games for what the Mac could do. They just didn't. Now that Windows can run natively on Macs, and soon, with virtualization, (if not already, think Parallels), I will probably never buy another Mac game again. Thanks for the bad port one year later. But how about making a game so creative that PC users would want to port to Windows?

First off... I have never had a problem with an Aspyr port.

Second of all... I don't know if you remember... but a company called Bungie... Remember them? Created the Marathon series, Oni, Myth, Halo... Most were mac only first.

How about feral Interactive? Graphsim? Feral and Graphsim BOTH produce some GREAT games for the mac. Then let's not talk about all the shareware developers who have produced great games over the years... naming my favorite of all time... dirt bike 2d & 3d. Mac only at first. Of course they are cheesy games now.... but were really fun back in the day.

Anyways... what you don't realize is these mac gaming companies help sell macs. Do you really think a gamer is going to want to buy a mac (pre built hardware), go buy windows xp... just to play games? If they are that serious about games in the first place they most likely aren't going to switch to macs if they can't play them in OS X. Why would you want ot spend all that extra money just for a machine you spend most your time in windows on? Doesn't make sense to me. These gaming companies bring a lot to the table for apple. Without them I think apple would lose a big market.

 

 

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post #350 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by Brian Green
The gaming companies did it to themselves. I've purchased all the games I own. I haven't pirated anything. I've been supportive of them. But they never chose to take Mac users seriously. We always got our ports later than the Windows folks. It's sad that we've been ignored for so long that we have to resort to running Windows on our Macs just to get a decent game at a reasonable time.

Yah I agree from that aspect. But there really have been some great games for the mac that people seem to forget about so easily. It's not our fault... it's a fact of life that the mac community isn't large enough to sell games to. I mean... most games come out and they have system requirements... and those requirements usually only work on newer macs. So really the percentage is EVEN SMALLER. If apple can get a larger market share.... then gaming companies will look our way.

 

 

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The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

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The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

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post #351 of 511
But it seems like the inevitable really is upon the mac gaming development community. Unless something really amazing comes out from them. I enjoyed Bloodrayne on my G4 PowerMac but it was terribly laggy at some points. And a lot of Mac games are "puzzle type" that makes the rest of the gaming community chuckle at Mac gamers Not to say that the "puzzle type" stuff is good and fun and suits the Mac user audience.....?
post #352 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by Mac Voyer
Let me get this straight. I don't have enough loyalty to Mac game porters and for this I should abandon the Mac, or be exiled.

No, but before you badmouth people that do the best within the confines of technical limitations, low demand from customers and tight schedules to deliver to the biggest chunk of the market first, you should read up on what's necessary for a game to be sucessful financially and what obstacles does a 2-3% marketshare platform present - with substandard graphics cards (as opposed to the gaming rigs in Windows-land) and other technical limitations that are not present in the Windows world, let alone the manpower ratio assigned to Mac games as opposed to the ones assigned to Windows games.

It's easy to say 'good riddance' when you have no clue how things works, but don't be surprised when someone suggest that you buy a PC and be gone - and tops it off with 'good riddance'. It's only to be expected. And this has nothing to do with any type of loyalty. It's common sense.
'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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post #353 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by Mac Voyer
Sorry, forgot to comment on this in my last post.

What do you mean by loyal Mac user? You've got to be joking, right? I am as loyal to Apple and SJ as they are to me. They care only about their bottom line. I care about mine. All as it should be. This notion of blind loyalty to a brand smacks of the kind of fanaticism that has made Apple a niche group of freaks in the eyes of most of the world. Apple doesn't need loyalty. They need a savvy and happy clientele who demands continued excellence and who will not tolerate a sub-par effort. The truly loyal hold their company to the highest standards. The condition of Mac gaming over the years has not represented the best of what Apple, or these other companies could have offered imo.

As for your last comment, I hope you were just upset at the time. "Buy a PC and be gone!" Are you nuts? That is exactly what you don't want to happen. Let me get this straight. I don't have enough loyalty to Mac game porters and for this I should abandon the Mac, or be exiled. Do you know how fruity that sounds? Fortunately for you, o loyal one, Apple disagrees. They believe it is better that I run Windows on a Mac for my game break and anything else they don't offer, rather than to leave the platform.

I was going to nominate you as the next CEO of Apple. But after your post, I am afraid I am going to have to withdraw my vote.

And I would kindly disregard your nomination.

In with regards to your comments and my very last post... It's not just about loyalty. These gaming companies have struggled through years of pain to bring mac users entertainment. Why is it so hard to see that? I'm not saying to be a blind loyaltist... i'm asking you to recognize and appreciate all the effort / money / agony that has been brought entertainment to you over the years (I assume you've been using a while). There have been some serious mac only games in the passed that PC users have desired. Just look at why bungie was bought out. They hardly released PC games... M$ saw how great they were and bought them.

As for saying that I don't want you to use a mac... yah I don't want you to if you can not respect the developers work that have gone into the mac games. I know right now is a shady time for games... but in the passed there has been some serious works of art. You have no idea how much work goes into creating an application let alone a game... And I stand by that comment because if you had any developing experience you wouldn't be saying these kinds of things.

I'm insulted to be honest. I am a developer. I work my ass off. Just like most developers. A lot of blood / sweat / tears / money / time go into making games. I don't know if you know this but the gaming market is the LEAST profitable. Don't believe me... look at gaming companies stocks. Atari has nearly gone out of business dozens of times, as has countless other companies. It's extremely hard to turn a profit off of games unless they are console. A lot of mac games have ended up being charity because they couldn't turn a large enough profit. Saying good riddance to these companies is a big insult and you should be ashamed for condemning ANY mac developer EVER... no matter how bad their software turned out. AT LEAST THEY TRIED. You have some serious issues with appreciation.

I honestly don't believe this is apple's long term plan for the gaming market. I think this was a short term plan to get new developers over to the platform. I also don't see real games switching over to a mac platform because they can run both. Why pay more for identical hardware when you don't use the OS that comes with it? Makes absolutely no sense.

 

 

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The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

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The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

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post #354 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by sunilraman
Melgross what's your take on the gaming situation (debate). Coz we always like your opinions

Well, since you've twisted my arm like that..

I think that Aspyr has done a fine job over the years. But Mac game companies, particularly when they are doing translations, are working with one hand tied behind their backs.

They can't work on the games before the licensing, and royalty issues are worked out. That can take a while. They aren't always apprised of the games requirements until the game is already out on the PC. They also have to judge actual interest before they decide they want to bother. Translation doesn't always go smoothly, and issues can delay the game for months. Performance issues arise that can't be fixed.

Over all, there can be a lot of problems and risks to the business. And with such a small market, the payback may be small.

Also, don't forget that for most of their history, Apple discouraged gaming on the platform to get away from the image of being a "toy".

When they tried harder, in the late '90's, they weren't consistent. Early OS X was a truly crappy gaming platform, and that has only really changed with 10.3. Not very long ago.

The gaming companies that hung in there throughout all of those travails, and the rollercoster ride that Apple put them through, are to be admired for their courage and persistence.

Perfection is something they haven't been able to deliver, but that's also due to Apple's attitude of "giveth and taketh away".

All in all, it's been tough for them. You can get some idea of this by looking at the MacWorlds over the years. will gaming be a big part of the show one year, and not the other? This is Apple's doing, not IDG.

What is a game company to do. Most of them told me over the years that they were about to throw in the towel. Over time, more and more did.

It's sad. But Mac users also don't game. That's the truth. Surveys over the years have shown that less Mac users as a percentage of the whole, play *games*, as opposed to the basic ones found on the internet, running in Java, or flash. That's another problem.
post #355 of 511
emig647,

Can you please give me some examples of current mac-only games. I'm not very familiar with the diferent gaming companies, but I'd like to hear about some of the Mac-only games that are currently out there.

As for Apple's long-term game plan, who says they even have one? Microsoft actually makes games, or they buy up companies that do. I play Age of Mythology often and it's got Microsoft right on the side. Apple does't make any games that I'm familiar with. Well, Chess is on here.

There have been mumbles about Leopard being the better for games, but doesn't Apple have to actually get into this area and use some of their money to get the Mac Gaming Community something to drool over? I'm all for a Mac-only game that makes PC users wish they could play it. Where's our Halo?
Fortes Fortuna Adiuvat
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Fortes Fortuna Adiuvat
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post #356 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by emig647
Why pay more for identical hardware when you don't use the OS that comes with it? Makes absolutely no sense.

Because Apple's hardware comes with iLife and a virus free, spy-ware free Mac OS X. That is the reason.

Regarding games for the Mac and the developers involved with making games for the Mac. I see what you are saying and must acknowledge your good intentions, however at the same time I must tell you that there never are any victims in this world, only players that have made mistakes.
post #357 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by Gene Clean
No, but before you badmouth people that do the best within the confines of technical limitations, low demand from customers and tight schedules to deliver to the biggest chunk of the market first, you should read up on what's necessary for a game to be sucessful financially and what obstacles does a 2-3% marketshare platform present - with substandard graphics cards (as opposed to the gaming rigs in Windows-land) and other technical limitations that are not present in the Windows world, let alone the manpower ratio assigned to Mac games as opposed to the ones assigned to Windows games.

It's easy to say 'good riddance' when you have no clue how things works, but don't be surprised when someone suggest that you buy a PC and be gone - and tops it off with 'good riddance'. It's only to be expected. And this has nothing to do with any type of loyalty. It's common sense.

That won't fly. You tell me it's hard to make great games for such a small platform. So what! Sub-par equipment? You bet. But today's sub-par junk was yesterday's top of the line. I am not suggesting that they could have done all that could have been done on a Windows PC. I am saying that imo, they could have done better with what they had. It is called thinking outside the box. They did not take lemons and make lemonade. They just offered us fewer, smaller, less tasty lemons. Microsoft built the infrastructure for gaming into their OS. It took years and plenty of lobbying to own the market. The simple truth is that Apple and the platform did not have the will to make it happen. Apple never built a Direct X type component (please correct me if I am wrong about this), and the "loyal" Mac users said that gaming was unimportant. That is what got us here. Apple has been making magic with sparse resources from the beginning. So have their developers. If we had possessed the collective will to build a great Mac gaming experience, it would have happened, even with hand me down parts and a shoestring budget. How dare you loyal users make such sad excuses. It sounds like you doubt the abilities of this ingenious community. Oh, ye of little faith.

And there is never a good reason for telling someone to pack up and leave the platform. Perhaps that explains what happened to the great gaming mind-share. People like you told people like them that if gaming was so important, they should just buy a PC and be gone. Well, you win. They did. Fortunately, Apple is now telling gamers that if games are so important to you, grab a copy of Windows and your favorite game, kick off your shoes and stay a while. You say "Be gone!" Apple says "Welcome home." No matter how many gaming facts I may be wrong about, you are more wrong for trying to get rid of "loyal" Mac users like me. The person who cries "Leave me alone" will wake up one day to find that everyone has done just that.

Have a good night gang.
Apple has no competition. Every commercial product which competes directly with an Apple product gives the distinct impression that, Where it is original, it is not good, and where it is good, it...
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Apple has no competition. Every commercial product which competes directly with an Apple product gives the distinct impression that, Where it is original, it is not good, and where it is good, it...
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post #358 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by Mac Voyer
That won't fly. You tell me it's hard to make great games for such a small platform. So what! Sub-par equipment? You bet. But today's sub-par junk was yesterday's top of the line. I am not suggesting that they could have done all that could have been done on a Windows PC. I am saying that imo, they could have done better with what they had. It is called thinking outside the box. They did not take lemons and make lemonade. They just offered us fewer, smaller, less tasty lemons. Microsoft built the infrastructure for gaming into their OS. It took years and plenty of lobbying to own the market. The simple truth is that Apple and the platform did not have the will to make it happen. Apple never built a Direct X type component (please correct me if I am wrong about this), and the "loyal" Mac users said that gaming was unimportant. That is what got us here. Apple has been making magic with sparse resources from the beginning. So have their developers. If we had possessed the collective will to build a great Mac gaming experience, it would have happened, even with hand me down parts and a shoestring budget. How dare you loyal users make such sad excuses. It sounds like you doubt the abilities of this ingenious community. Oh, ye of little faith.

You are wrong. Apple was the very first company to hype up OpenGL. Which at the time smoked Direct X for all it was worth. A lot of games use OpenGL to this day. And you wrong about it being the mac users who stated they didn't want games... it was apple's attitude that said they didn't want games.

Quote:

And there is never a good reason for telling someone to pack up and leave the platform. Perhaps that explains what happened to the great gaming mind-share. People like you told people like them that if gaming was so important, they should just buy a PC and be gone. Well, you win. They did. Fortunately, Apple is now telling gamers that if games are so important to you, grab a copy of Windows and your favorite game, kick off your shoes and stay a while. You say "Be gone!" Apple says "Welcome home." No matter how many gaming facts I may be wrong about, you are more wrong for trying to get rid of "loyal" Mac users like me. The person who cries "Leave me alone" will wake up one day to find that everyone has done just that.

Have a good night gang.

Wow... mr. pot ... say hello to mr. kettle. You just told him there is no good reason to tell someone to leave... when in fact you doing so is what sparked this whole debate... by you saying "Be gone!" mac game developers.

On top of that you have no idea what Apple's intentions are unless you are on the board of directors. You don't know what their long term plans are for games. You don't know the reason they released this software. So really you're talking out of your ass by stating Apple says "hey dual boot on this intel mac and use your games". No gamer is going to buy a mac... even if it is "virus and spyware free" just to browse the web. I do just fine on my pc without getting spyware / virii. It's called being protective and smart...something you don't have to do on a mac. Point being... if they want to game they aren't going to buy inferior apple products when they can have something better performing for cheaper.

 

 

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The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

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post #359 of 511
For the record, despite my rhetoric, I have a great deal of respect for all developers of all kinds of software. I know the limitations. I deal with limitations in my life everyday. It's not easy but that's life. Personally, I could live without the latest Windows game. I would like to have seen more originality and creative use of what was available. I don't want to hear why Doom 3 is difficult. Just make something else. Still, I know their contribution has helped Apple. Furthermore, I blame Apple, not so much the developers for the condition of Mac gaming. But I also blame the community somewhat for swallowing the company line. Games were, and to some degree still are the technical benchmark for a platform. You just can't abandon that ground to the competition without a serious fight.

I am sorry for the fate of Mac game developers but like it or not, I think their time is up. Frankly, I hope I'm wrong. You see, I don't really want them to leave anymore than you really want me to leave. Perhaps it is possible that all this focus on being able to play games on a Mac will inspire them to do something, well, out of the box. We will all find out together. Nobody's leaving the platform. Things are just now getting interesting.
Apple has no competition. Every commercial product which competes directly with an Apple product gives the distinct impression that, Where it is original, it is not good, and where it is good, it...
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Apple has no competition. Every commercial product which competes directly with an Apple product gives the distinct impression that, Where it is original, it is not good, and where it is good, it...
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post #360 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by Brian Green
emig647,

Can you please give me some examples of current mac-only games. I'm not very familiar with the diferent gaming companies, but I'd like to hear about some of the Mac-only games that are currently out there.

I take it you realize Oni, Myth, Marathon were all mac only for a while. The myth and marathon series is what convinced my friend to buy a mac. Anyways, X-Plane (now vers 8) started out on a mac. Eventually it was ported to the pc. Along with other titles.

Honestly I haven't been keeping up on the mac gaming scene for the last 18 months because I've been working 16 hour days. But when I was at WWDC 2004 I remember apple saying airburst extreme was mac only... never played it, never saw it. So if it sucks don't flame me.

But either way... there are a lot of games out there. Check out insidemacgames.com and macgamestore.com, both of which show a list of current games.

 

 

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The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

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The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

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