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Apple's "Boot Camp" beta runs Windows XP on Macs - Page 2

post #41 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by sandau
so the question is...how long until apple adds the $129 option to have Win XP preinstalled in a partition?

$129? Surely that's the upgrade price?

A plain copy here in the UK is about £250 retail.


Quote:
Originally posted by sandau
Then what's next after that...an XP only Mac? Where does the madness end?

Cue Steve Jobs on stage...

"Announcing today, we're replacing .Mac with AOL. We think it's really cool.. "


post #42 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by DeaPeaJay
I highly doubt its very risky. Do you honestly believe Adobe would abandon Mac in favor of windows in light of this?

I never said they would. Where do you get that from my post?

Quote:
Originally posted by DeaPeaJay
Or any other developers for that matter?

Possibly. Microsoft? Adobe? Both already have their applications running on Windows. This (slightly open door) might put in motion steps that have them deciding to drop the "native" Mac OS X versions.

Think a few steps ahead in the chess game.
post #43 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by whoami
i agree....smart gamble.
i'm sure leopard will have more than we're expecting and this will seem like no big deal!


This is enough, I believe to scare the hell out of MS.

I wonder if apple will, in leopard run .exe files natively without a full version of windows.
post #44 of 511
As a PC user of many years this is the beginning of what it will take to talk me into switching.

Virtualisation is what I'm waiting for. Once I can run 3DS Max from within OSX, I'll be joining you guys in Apple land.
post #45 of 511
This is a sensational move. I was just about to buy some crappy PC out of necessity; now I can justify a MacIntel. This has to give Apple's market share a serious kick.
post #46 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by TednDi
This is enough, I believe to scare the hell out of MS.

I don't see how.

Quote:
Originally posted by TednDi
I wonder if apple will, in leopard run .exe files natively without a full version of windows.

Well...maybe that.
post #47 of 511
I guess apple has something really interesting up the sleeve, otherwise they wouldn't be able take a step like this. Think about it - they will now have to keep OS X much more competitive to XP than ever before.
post #48 of 511
This definitely will help out the first wave of people that have some (1-3) Windows-specific applications that they just cannot get away from.
post #49 of 511
Personally, I was hoping for emulation support to run Windows apps natively in OSX. I don't want Windows XP/Wishta on my Mac; I just want native Windows apps to work in OSX.
post #50 of 511
Grrr, can somebody please install and tell us how games run?
post #51 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by aegisdesign
$129? Surely that's the upgrade price?

A plain copy here in the UK is about £250 retail.



The key word there is "retail". An OEM copy of XP Home is £75 ish.
post #52 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by DeaPeaJay
I highly doubt its very risky. Do you honestly believe Adobe would abandon Mac in favor of windows in light of this? Or any other developers for that matter?

The risk isn't really in developers leaving the Mac market but in attracting new ones from the Windows world.

If they can get the market share up because of this AND those extra users are actually using MacOSX instead of Windows on their Macs then the gamble pays off. There's a good chance of developers following the users then.

If everyone starts booting up their Macs into Windows to run Windows programs that don't exist on the Mac then developers of alternative applications on the Mac might find times a bit leaner.

And I think Mac games companies are completely hosed now.
post #53 of 511
Can anyone tell me if Windows recognises the Apple modem?

Damm, last week I bought a ThinkPad to run the Ray-marine software for my yacht. If Apple had pre-announced this it would have got another MBP sale, who's the biggest looser with this secrecy thing?
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post #54 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by s_sarinana
I wonder if Microsoft is going to keep developing Virtual PC for Intel Macs.

Virtualization and dual booting are two distinct duties. Virtualation is a Ferrari whereby Dual Booting is an Edsel.

I'm not worried about the OS/2 effect because Apple is not guaranteeing Windows support out the box. This is purely your own endeavour and you must provide your own windows software.
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post #55 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by DeaPeaJay
I highly doubt its very risky. Do you honestly believe Adobe would abandon Mac in favor of windows in light of this? Or any other developers for that matter?

Maybe not today, but what about in 2-3 years, when all Macs are Intel-based? The developers might realize serious cost savings developing to one set of APIs. I personally think Apple's APIs are much nicer to work with, but I've just started with VC++ programming so I've only experienced a little bit of pain so far.
post #56 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Cuilla
I don't see how.

It'll ultimately scare Microsoft because it is the start of the end for them.

Switchers now have no reason not to buy a Mac since they can run both OSs easily. They start off using part OSX and part Windows but over time their reliance on Windows diminishes to the point they no longer need Windows.
post #57 of 511
Quote:
a_greer orginally wrote

Not at all, it is a real life revenge of the nerds, we wanted to dual boot, Apple made that unreasonably difficult, so in stead of lying down, the community went to work...

Given that Apple orginally indicated that this might be possible in their speech, I suspecting that this was a planned feature. At the same time while important, it was probably not given a priority, since there were probably enough issues to work out as it was.
post #58 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by Addison
Damm, last week I bought a ThinkPad to run the Ray-marine software for my yacht. If Apple had pre-announced this it would have got another MBP sale, who's the biggest looser with this secrecy thing?

Yea but I purchased a ThinkPad to run software for my TWO yachts a week prior to your purchase so they really should pre-announced it TWO weeks ago... Oh yea an my brother purchased a ThinkPad to run software for his THREE yachts with the optional helicopter landing pads just two weeks prior to my purchase... So lets see.. exactly how far back should we have Apple pre-announce things?

Truth is... no matter what you say some schmuck somewhere in the world was going to buy a ThinkPad for his or her yacht just a week prior to the announcement and/or pre-announcement.

Dave
Apple Fanboy: Anyone who started liking Apple before I did!
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Apple Fanboy: Anyone who started liking Apple before I did!
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post #59 of 511
I also wonder if apple has up its sleeve another use for xcode.

Develop on xcode and click the box and a .exe file spits out as well as the universal binary.

Developers Developers Developers Developers!!!

Everyone goes to xcode. OS X gains market share and we all retire.


Leopard changes spots.....
post #60 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by aegisdesign
It'll ultimately scare Microsoft because it is the start of the end for them.

Possibly. But getting ahead of ourselves here.

Quote:
Originally posted by aegisdesign
Switchers now have no reason not to buy a Mac since they can run both OSs easily.

And MS makes $ for every Windows license.

Quote:
Originally posted by aegisdesign
They start off using part OSX and part Windows but over time their reliance on Windows diminishes to the point they no longer need Windows.

Well, that is the theory and the hope.
post #61 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
Virtualization and dual booting are two distinct duties. Virtualation is a Ferrari whereby Dual Booting is an Edsel.

I agree. Boot Camp may work for some but I need virtualization app to really do what i want, ie switch between os with out re-boot.
post #62 of 511
Truly great news - I give it a standing ovation.

(The stock price is certainly agreeing with this news too - but I'm not buying in at their P/E Ratio of 32... but it definately got me thinking about being an AAPL share holder!)
post #63 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by pmjoe
Well, this is pretty useless, neither of the XP licenses/disks I have are Service Pack 2 based. This might have helped me decide to get an Intel Mac mini sooner, so I could get rid of the aging PC I keep around for Windows stuff. I'm not going to buy another copy of Windows just to do it though.

Since this is probably true for most anyone with a system older than a couple years, this doesn't seem like that useful of an approach. Apple ought to be aiming for people with aging XP systems as a way to get them over to Mac OS. People with newer copies of XP probably aren't the ones who will go out and buy a Mac just to run XP on it.

I believe there are ways to take the SP2 download and your original XP disc and merge the two onto a new CD-R so you start with an XP/SP2 install. I believe the term you want to search on is "slipstream". That's what I've heard it called.

[edit]
Here's a step by step instruction on slipstreaming XP + SP2:

http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase...slipstream.asp
post #64 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by a_greer
Well, I am glad to see that Apple is maturing the mac line like this, finally, Macs will be more than mere toys.

<ducks>

<Toying with the ban button>
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
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post #65 of 511
Can anyone say "INCREASED MARKETSHARE"

Consumers now have a reason to make the switch. They can have a system that runs both OS X and Windows. My views have now been validated by Apple 8)
post #66 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by andrewcod
Did anyone else notice that in the installer, it doesn't erase all your data to repartition the hard drive? Perhaps this signals another new feature of Leapord!?

There was a way of non-destructively resizing HFS+ partitions but it was necessary to turn journaling off first. It seems that Apple have managed to non-destructively resize HFS+ partitions without turning journaling off which isn't such an amazing feat given Apple's resources.
post #67 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by DaveGee
Yea but I purchased a ThinkPad to run software for my TWO yachts a week prior to your purchase so they really should pre-announced it TWO weeks ago... Oh yea an my brother purchased a ThinkPad to run software for his THREE yachts with the optional helicopter landing pads just two weeks prior to my purchase... So lets see.. exactly how far back should we have Apple pre-announce things?

Truth is... no matter what you say some schmuck somewhere in the world was going to buy a ThinkPad for his or her yacht just a week prior to the announcement and/or pre-announcement.

Dave

I just wished Apple had announced BootCamp on 20-Feb. Then I would've picked up a shiny IntelliMac instead of an HP.
post #68 of 511
Could XP run OS X?
post #69 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by kmhtkmhtkmht
Could XP run OS X?

Uhhhh... Come again
post #70 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by kmhtkmhtkmht
Could XP run OS X?

It's only a matter of time...and lawsuits. :-)
post #71 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by backtomac
I agree. Boot Camp may work for some but I need virtualization app to really do what i want, ie switch between os with out re-boot.

Lets face it... There are really two (nee four) distinct "Mac Users"

1. Those who love OS X but want to play the hot new games
2. Those who love OS X but have a need to run some random app not available to OS X.
3. Those who love OS X and wouldn't dare run Windows EVAR!
4. Those who hate OS X but instead of switch choose to bitch to us instead

Group 1 = Dual boot is the ONLY way to fly (game gets the most speed)
Group 2 = Virtualization would be king since booting into Windows just to run some silly app would suck!
Group 3 = Will just wring their hands over this whole thing
Group 4 = Will find something to bitch with this too.

Now people in the Windows world... that's a different story. As of late I've noticed more and more Windows users taking the "Mac OS X" plunge (even my little cousin - a die hard windows user made the switch and is now trying to convince his father to do the same). I consider those Windows users 'totally fed up' with Windows and all the crap (virus, spyware, popups, malware, worms, etc) that goes along with it.

Another percentage of Windows users who just aren't ready to totally pull the Windows plug but are OS X curious.

Small businesses... who could perhaps be persuaded to switch if they could do it in their own time and not give up Windows cold turkey. (virtualization would be a god send for these folks)

Finally businesses and hardcore windows users who, no matter what happens will live and die Microsoft & Dell. Huge corporate IT departments HATE to change ANYTHING and to that point most have just in the last few years given up Windows NT (since MS pretty much forced their hand) and are now mostly just running Windows 2000.

All in all, Apple really has a chance at winning over some new blood with this move!

Dave
Apple Fanboy: Anyone who started liking Apple before I did!
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post #72 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by DaveGee
Lets face it... There are really two (nee four) distinct "Mac Users"

1. Those who love OS X but want to play the hot new games
2. Those who love OS X but have a need to run some random app not available to OS X.
3. Those who love OS X and wouldn't dare run Windows EVAR!
4. Those who hate OS X but instead of switch choose to bitch to us instead

Group 1 = Dual boot is the ONLY way to fly (game gets the most speed)
Group 2 = Virtualization would be king since booting into Windows just to run some silly app would suck!
Group 3 = Will just wring their hands over this whole thing
Group 4 = Will find something to bitch with this too.

Now people in the Windows world... that's a different story. As of late I've noticed more and more Windows users taking the "Mac OS X" plunge (even my little cousin - a die hard windows user made the switch and is now trying to convince his father to do the same). I consider those Windows users 'totally fed up' with Windows and all the crap (virus, spyware, popups, malware, worms, etc) that goes along with it.

Another percentage of Windows users who just aren't ready to totally pull the Windows plug but are OS X curious.

Small businesses... who could perhaps be persuaded to switch if they could do it in their own time and not give up Windows cold turkey. (virtualization would be a god send for these folks)

Finally businesses and hardcore windows users who, no matter what happens will live and die Microsoft & Dell. Huge corporate IT departments HATE to change ANYTHING and to that point most have just in the last few years given up Windows NT (since MS pretty much forced their had) and or now mostly just running Windows 2000.

All in all, Apple really has a chance at winning over some new blood with this move!

Dave

excellent post. i wish this was like digg so comments could be promoted. anyways, i'm a moderate group 1. i want to dual boot only for gaming, but i want to play games like roller coaster tycoon and stuff, nothing big. i know RCT is available for mac, but the pc version has tons of add-ons, etc.
post #73 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by kmhtkmhtkmht
Could XP run OS X?

never gonna happen legally
post #74 of 511
My take:

First thing that will happen: Alienware will lose a large part of their portable customers.

Next thing: A moderate progress in the number of switchers.

Then: New middle to large sized apps will be Windows only. Most developers stop developing for Mac at the next large transition (be that processor or API), UNLESS Apple give them a good reason not to (much greater distance between Mac OS and WIndows).

So short term good move, long term bad move, UNLESS Apple use its comparable legacy-free situation to make advantages compared to WIndows
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post #75 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by Anders
First thing that will happen: Alienware will lose a large part of their portable customers.

Heh... Didn't Dell just buy Alienware?

Quote:
Originally posted by Anders
Then: New middle to large sized apps will be Windows only. Most developers stop developing for Mac at the next large transition (be that processor or API), UNLESS Apple give them a good reason not to (much greater distance between Mac OS and WIndows).

Well "much greater distance" ..OR.. a bigger/growing market share. No software developer is going to abandon a growing user base that's just not smart and the stockholders of the respective companies will no doubt voice their displeasure at the move.

Dave
Apple Fanboy: Anyone who started liking Apple before I did!
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post #76 of 511
What's going to keep developers in Apple's fold? Could it finally be time for Yellow Box for Windows?
When they said "Think Different", I ran with it.
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When they said "Think Different", I ran with it.
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post #77 of 511
For a second that this was to appease pro users who can't wait for Adobe's Creative Suite 3.
Simply boot up in XP and run CS2. But then I realized they'd need to buy XP versions of CS2.

Regardless, this will be a great added feature of OSX/Leopard. I'm guessing Jobs will certainly make mention of it, but not harp on it. Why tout XP when OSX is still the better OS.
post #78 of 511
Brilliant move by Apple. I wonder how long Steve has been waiting to pull the trigger on this. To minimize the OS/2 effect he had to get Adobe and MS on board with OS X Intel promises...

1. A few people are going to put Windows on MacTels anyway.
2. PC people shopping in the Apple Stores now can be told by the sales guy that the Macs will run Windows and Mac OS.
3. Adobe and other developers won't kill the OS X versions of their apps because:

- Apple's hardware marketshare is going to take off now that there will be "future proofing" for buyers who know that IF they need to run a Windows app, they will be able to. This doesn't mean that they WILL buy Windows XP, but they WILL buy the Mac.

- If developers offer only the Windows version of their app, it requires the buyer to buy Windows XP also, killing most of their Mac market because Mac buyers won't do this.

4. Now MS could throw a monkeywrench in this by selling XP to Adobe for a dollar a copy, so that Adobe can sell the "PhotoShop for Windows with Windows included" for the Mac market, but MS have no reason to do this - they'd be happy with the retail sales of XP to the Mac market.

Next on the agenda: Cocoa for Windows, in Xcode. All developers can move to Xcode and have a single codebase for the entire market. As the Mac market share skyrockets, developers will have more and more reason to do this. Cocoa already has objects and methods to do everything you can imagine, and all Apple has to do is change the internals of the frameworks so that they call into Windows dlls instead of Mac OS X frameworks. If Mac hardware sales get to, let's say 15% of the market, then some developers will move to Xcode to take advantage of that revenue stream, and others will follow.

As far as Mac game developers, they can bite me. All their blathering over the last 20 years about the market being too small, and their insistence on porting Windows games instead of actually designing anything should come back to haunt them. If they had possessed any sense of vision, they might have seen that developing native games would have increased Mac hardware market share and in turn made their market larger.
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post #79 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by aegisdesign
It'll ultimately scare Microsoft because it is the start of the end for them.

Switchers now have no reason not to buy a Mac since they can run both OSs easily.

Someone needs to be devil's advocate here:

A 150% price increase is still a very good reason not to switch for most Windows users. If I was Bill Gates I'd be popping open the champaign right now, their 95% market share will get closer to 100%, with 5% having both OS's.

And how are those Apple mice going to work with Windows XP, anyway?
post #80 of 511
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
Virtualization and dual booting are two distinct duties

Virtualization would be great. Dual booting is of limited use.

However - being able to "fast switch" from Mac to Windows would be very useful (even if it only runs one OS at a time).
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