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Apple's Jobs delays trip to India

post #1 of 39
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Apple Computer chief executive Steve Jobs has postponed his first official visit to India until later this fall, a new report claims.

Jobs had been scheduled to make the rare trip to Asia this month in order to oversee the launch of the company's new R&D center and support facility in Bangalore.

Citing sources familiar with the company, CIOL said, "Recruitments for the Apple's R&D center and technical support facility are (still) going on. It might take some more time to complete this exercise."

Jobs is said to be keen on having the R&D center functional before he makes the trip, and now plans to visit the site in September.

Its been reported that the Apple chief, who is usually conservative in his travel plans, has visited only one other Asian country in his official capacity: Japan.

However, he reportedly admires India as one of the fast growing economies in the world and in the 1970's spent four years as a "hippie spiritual tourist" visiting holy places in the country.

Apple is expected to hire 3000 employees to staff the Bangalore facility by 2007.
post #2 of 39
i love it. "hippie spiritual tourist"

http://wired.com/news/technology/0,7...w=wn_tophead_1

lsd has been known to make some people weird. not that that's a bad thing.
post #3 of 39
Quote:
Originally posted by AppleInsider
However, he reportedly admires India as one of the fast growing economies in the world and in the 1970's pent four years as a "hippie spiritual tourist" visiting holy places in the country.

I wonder if he ever met the Beatles while he was there? Maybe they took a bad trip together?
 
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post #4 of 39
This story came out on google news search like FOUR days ago. Does appleinsider and thinksecret have any reason to exist anymore?? Pointless..
post #5 of 39
<-- Living proof.
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Originally posted by sillycybin
lsd has been known to make some people weird.
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post #6 of 39
I have heard about the R&D center in the past but something about it rubs me the wrong way.

Can Apple be considered an American company if it does its research in another country?The subject about jobs moving to india (no pun intended) is a topic thats been around for years at this point. My concern however is that this is a R&D facility not a tech support center or manufacturing facility. If they move R&D to India then should Apple's HQ be moved to India? Well it would make it easier for the executives to communicate with their innovators...

So why are they moving R&D there? I thought America was still the place to research technology, but apparently that isn't even going to happen here much longer. Apparently we specialize in nothing anymore and Europe should be worried as well. If asia is responsible for R&D, support, and manufacturing of goods then it seems the rest of the world is useless to this global multi-national economy.

So maybe people should be more concerned with the implications of moves like this and less concerned about the drugs Steve took in college. I'm not saying that outsourcing is a bad or good thing but if we outsource everything then that isn't specialization then is it? It goes beyond globalization.
post #7 of 39
Ah yes, the great North American obsession with job loss to other countries. It's no wonder it's easy to dupe the general population into wars when they feel it's them against the world.

On one hand we want to have ten times the purchasing power and consumptive capacity as a person living in China or India, and on the other hand we want all the products we purchase to be developed and produced here. You can't have it both ways...
 
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post #8 of 39
Quote:
Originally posted by drakethegreat
I ... Apparently we specialize in nothing anymore and Europe should be worried as well. If asia is responsible for R&D, support, and manufacturing of goods then it seems the rest of the world is useless to this global multi-national economy...<snip>

So maybe people should be more concerned with the implications of moves like this ...<snip> but if we outsource everything then that isn't specialization then is it? It goes beyond globalization.

I concur. This is exactly why countries with previously strong manufacturing and research industries are now being turned into purely consumer markets.

Where once they had factories they now have shopping malls and the unemployment that goes with it. What do you say to someone who once built cars or computers and now has to stand behind a register in WalMart selling $1.99 tee shirts made in China?
post #9 of 39
Quote:
Originally posted by MiMac
What do you say to someone who once built cars or computers and now has to stand behind a register in WalMart selling $1.99 tee shirts made in China?

I guess it was hard for the ruling class when feudalism and slavery was abandomed.

And you are not in a resession. If you are sorry for the WalMart worker load up some good old national redistribution of capital and the problem is solved.

Besides americans still have much higher chance of being able to afford a trip to China than the other way around.
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post #10 of 39
Quote:
Originally posted by McHuman
This story came out on google news search like FOUR days ago. Does appleinsider and thinksecret have any reason to exist anymore?? Pointless..

You're here aren't you?
post #11 of 39
Quote:
Originally posted by MiMac
What do you say to someone who once built cars or computers and now has to stand behind a register in WalMart selling $1.99 tee shirts made in China?

How 'bout "You're richer than 99% of people in the world."
post #12 of 39
Quote:
Originally posted by MiMac
What do you say to someone who once built cars or computers and now has to stand behind a register in WalMart selling $1.99 tee shirts made in China?

You say: it's the game of capitalism. Sorry you couldn't afford a decent education and have been too busy struggling to make ends meet ever since to analyze things and understand the root of the problem and believed that voting Republican/Conservative would somehow bring your job back.
 
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post #13 of 39
GODDAMN HIPPIES!!!
post #14 of 39
Quote:
Originally posted by coxnvox
How 'bout "You're richer than 99% of people in the world."

Not really... ever heard of relative economics? I would be willing to wager that, relative to the rest of the US/Canadian population, the average Wal-Mart employee (assuming they only work at Wal-Mart) is actually poorer than the average factory worker in China or India is relative to the rest of their population. Hence the need for people to work 2 or 3 of those types of jobs to get by here. No wager of course on who actually works more hours.
 
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post #15 of 39
Quote:
Originally posted by auxio
You say: it's the game of capitalism. Sorry you couldn't afford a decent education and have been too busy struggling to make ends meet ever since to analyze things and understand the root of the problem and believed that voting Republican/Conservative would somehow bring your job back.

Conservative DOES NOT = Republican

Any more than Liberal = Democrat

These labels are getting old!

Before I get flamed I have Fiscal Conservative Views, and a Social Liberal Views.

I am neither a Republican nor Democrat.
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post #16 of 39
Quote:
Originally posted by DGNR8
Conservative DOES NOT = Republican

Any more than Liberal = Democrat

These labels are getting old!

Sorry, I didn't mean to have this degenerate into a political flame war.

Just to clarify, I wasn't trying to draw comparison between political parties, I was just trying to have the discussion apply to both Canadians and Americans in order to emphasize the point that governments have very little power over how multinational corporations operate. I was simply using the current governments in both countries as an example, not comparing the two parties.

Sorry for any confusion.
 
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post #17 of 39
Quote:
Originally posted by auxio
Not really... ever heard of relative economics? I would be willing to wager that, relative to the rest of the US/Canadian population, the average Wal-Mart employee (assuming they only work at Wal-Mart) is actually poorer than the average factory worker in China or India is relative to the rest of their population.

That doesn't compare the actual quality of life.
post #18 of 39
Quote:
Originally posted by MiMac
I concur. This is exactly why countries with previously strong manufacturing and research industries are now being turned into purely consumer markets.

I think that general idea is overstated. There is plenty of manufacturing and research. Right now, it's not as bad as people seem to think it is, but I do wonder about the next generation.
post #19 of 39
Quote:
Originally posted by JeffDM
That doesn't compare the actual quality of life.

Quality of life is also a very over-rated thing. I once met a man from a "third-world" country (as we like to put it). He had the one thing many people don't: satisfaction. He was satisfied with his life in a way I had never seen before. Everyone in the "first-world???" is overly concerned with getting ahead, not being satisfied with a two-year-old computer, blah blah blah. He had a family, he could read, but he lived without want.

Many in the west are driven by the same motivator behind a comical friend of ours, Calvin:

"Waste and want. That's my motto."

 

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post #20 of 39
look moving R&D overseas may mean that we get laid off some of the higher costs as consumers. So we could be looking at potentially, cheaper computers to compete with all the other PC makers out there.

India has always been a place hi tech companies head hunt. The training and education is so much better than ours that they get paid a hell of a lot to move out and come to the USA and work for massive companies. That way all thier income goes to the US anyay. At least this way they can make some money and help their country to develop so they have a fair playing feild with the bigger players.
post #21 of 39
Quote:
Originally posted by MiMac
I concur. This is exactly why countries with previously strong manufacturing and research industries are now being turned into purely consumer markets.

Where once they had factories they now have shopping malls and the unemployment that goes with it. What do you say to someone who once built cars or computers and now has to stand behind a register in WalMart selling $1.99 tee shirts made in China?

If this bothers you and others you Americans should rally your government to give your companies the same tax breaks and other bonuses other countires are willing to give American companies.

That is why they're leaving your country makes it too expensive for them to do competitive business within your own nation.
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post #22 of 39
Quote:
Originally posted by drakethegreat
I have heard about the R&D center in the past but something about it rubs me the wrong way.

Apple has been doing R&D in Ireland, where I live, for a long time. Granted, Ireland is not a low cost country (in fact, the standard of living in Ireland is higher than the USA), so I guess that doesn't count. But still, I thought I'd point that out for you.
post #23 of 39
And while you're pondering, you might consider pondering the fact that the R&D for all the components that make a Mac is done all across the world. From China and Taiwan to Israel (the Core Duo processor).

Instead of whinging, you should concentrate on making the USA a better place to do business in.

And yeah, we should all be afraid of Asia. But instead of whining and things "rubbing us the wrong way", let's work on making our own country more competitive, improving our education system (whether you live in the USA or Ireland, or any other counter for that matter). It's far more productive.
post #24 of 39
As far as I am concerned, there are two types of people: "Doers" and "Talkers".

Talkers complain and talk, but doers actually get their asses in gear and work on making things better.
post #25 of 39
Quote:
[i] Granted, Ireland is not a low cost country (in fact, the standard of living in Ireland is higher than the USA), so I guess that doesn't count. But still, I thought I'd point that out for you. [/B]

Robin Hood, can you be more specific about what you mean about the standard of living being higher in Ireland than the USA? Do you mean the COST of living? Just curious. I'm fascinated by the changes in Ireland over the last 7-8 years, but I don't know what's driving the change. What are the new industries there?
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post #26 of 39
Duplicate.
post #27 of 39
No, I do not mean the cost of living. "The main factor is income, but other things are also important: health, freedom, unemployment, family life, climate, political stability and security, gender equality, and family and community life."

I recommend reading http://www.economist.com/theWorldIn/...3372495&d=2005

Now I am not saying things here are perfect, they are not. There is, unfortunately, no such place on earth. But I am working on making things better, not just talking.

You should bear in mind that the USA is probably being dragged down because it has a lot of poorer states. For example, while the standard of living in many parts of Massachusetts are extremely high, the same might not be said for other parts of the country. As such, I am only comparing Ireland to the USA as a whole. Kind of makes things complex, doesn't it?

As far as the cost of living, it's higher than some areas of the USA, but lower than others. For example, renting an apartment in Dublin, Ireland is probably going to be more expensive than most places in Texas, but cheaper than perhaps New York or Boston.
post #28 of 39
It didn't used to be like this. 15 years ago, things were quite dramatically different. Now, more Irish people are returning than leaving the country. And those that do still leave are doing so for the adventure, rather than economic need (a colleague of mine in a highly paid job left for New Zealand early this year, where he will be paid a fraction, simply because of the adventure).
post #29 of 39
Quote:
Originally posted by Robin Hood
Now, more Irish people are returning than leaving the country.

What new industry is there that's providing all these jobs?

I must say, I travel to Ireland frequently, at least once a year. I hear all the rhetoric about how much better things are now. But when I travel in the countryside I don't see much difference. More expensive houses - but I don't know how people in small towns are paying for them.

In Dublin I see housing costs that rival the most expensive cities of the USA. But I don't know how they pay for it. I worked for Guinness in Dublin in 1998-1999 and the young people I worked with were paid very little, and they all lived with their parents. Granted, that was before housing costs really skyrocketed. But if I lived with my parents when I was 24 I would consider myself a failure. Sure that's different in Ireland, where it has been the culture for a long time. But I would think young people would want to do away with that part of their history.

Without doing extensive research, my take has always been that a very small percentage of the population had gotten wealthy, and the rest don't realize it hasn't trickled down to them. They hear Celtic Tiger enough and start to believe it. But I'm not sure the Irish are much better off. It looks to me like they're just paying more for everything.

As far as the other things that make up standard of living...

Irish healthcare? I think it's much more advanced in the USA - but it's not accessible to the poor, so what good is it?

Education? I'll give that one to the Irish.

I still don't know where all the money is coming from that the Irish say they have now. I think the country has taken some steps backwards in terms of hospitality with tourists - but they've put up with a lot of boorish Americans along the way, so at some point enough is enough.

So what are the growth industries over there? Why are so many people suddenly driving BMWs and going on weekend golf excusrions for 500 euro a night? Where is the money coming from?!
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post #30 of 39
http://www.nsd.ie/htm/ssii/back.htm might provide some insights, though it's mostly about the software industry.

Personally, I believe that because Ireland is English speaking, coupled with low corporate income tax (a 12.5% flat rate), that has made Ireland an attractive base for multi nationals wanting to do business in Europe. Manufacturing is also currently growing at 5%.

You are certainly correct about income being unequally distributed, but the problem has not yet reached the levels seen in the USA. That being said, it is a problem that needs to be tackled.
post #31 of 39
Quote:
Originally posted by ecking
If this bothers you and others you Americans should rally your government to give your companies the same tax breaks and other bonuses other countires are willing to give American companies.

That is why they're leaving your country makes it too expensive for them to do competitive business within your own nation.

I actually have a big problem with this philosophy. It's gotten to the point where multinational corporations can pretty much play governments against each other to see who can give the most tax cuts/benefits to them.

The unfortunate result for governments is less taxation income from corporations, yet it still costs the same to run public programs such as education and health care (for countries with public health care). So then governments need to look elsewhere to replace that income -- either by putting it on the shoulders of the general population in the way of taxes and/or hidden fees, or by cutting funding to public programs.

Consider that next time you wonder why the public education system in many places in the US is so bad, or why public health care in Canada has been gutted beyond repair. I guess if we just dump all public programs, we could compete with the tax incentives provided by third-world countries too. Forgive me if I don't consider that to be progress...

If it's up to people to take responsibility for making things better, then it's also up to corporate citizens to share in that responsibility. Unfortunately, there's no incentives for them to do so. Keep prices competitive or die right?
 
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post #32 of 39
I'd agree with Robin Hood that software is the new big industry in Ireland though I'd have to disagree (partly) with his assumption that more Irish people are returning than leaving.

For the reasons stated by walshbj, housing costs/living costs etc., I have seen countless friends and neighbours searching out better wages and comparatively less expensive places to live and that usually means emigrating to the "big three", USA, England or Australia.

The construction/building industry has been booming in recent years though it does show signs of slowing as land is getting harder to find and much too expensive to develop for purely housing needs.

For those who haven't gone on to third level education there are few career choices and any jobs available to them are poorly paid compared to the cost of living in the "New Ireland".

Those that stay have already carved out their career path in such industries as software development etc. and therefore can somewhat afford the spiralling cost of living.

The "Celtic Tiger" IMHO was just a moniker put around by a government who, while lowering corporate taxation to attract big business, did little to curb the excessive price rises in necessities such as housing and consumables for the ordinary citizen. That 'Tiger' made many already wealthy people even more so and left joe public to wonder exactly where the money went when he added up the bills at the end of the month.

The promised benefits of moving from the 'Punt" to the 'Euro' never materialised. If anything it made things much more expensive than before. You only have to drive an hour up the motorway, cross the border and watch the many hundreds of 'free-staters' load up on food, electricals and alcohol as if there were no tomorrow (although things are pretty bad "up there" also). Things are not as rosy as some might have you believe.

Indeed, it is a problem that needs to be tackled, though it is harder to cure a sore when it has been left to fester for so long.

In response to walshbj's question... people are suddenly driving BMWs and going on weekend golf excusrions for 500 Euro a night because the government has told them they can live the dream, only thing is they have to re-mortgage to do so.

OK. Rant over... now, BUY *insert your country here*!
post #33 of 39
*cough*EU*cough*
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post #34 of 39
f**k the EU
post #35 of 39
Quote:
Originally posted by MiMac
f**k the EU

Well without it Ireland would have been at a totally other level.
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post #36 of 39
Quote:
Originally posted by auxio
I actually have a big problem with this philosophy. It's gotten to the point where multinational corporations can pretty much play governments against each other to see who can give the most tax cuts/benefits to them.

The unfortunate result for governments is less taxation income from corporations, yet it still costs the same to run public programs such as education and health care (for countries with public health care). So then governments need to look elsewhere to replace that income -- either by putting it on the shoulders of the general population in the way of taxes and/or hidden fees, or by cutting funding to public programs.

Consider that next time you wonder why the public education system in many places in the US is so bad, or why public health care in Canada has been gutted beyond repair. I guess if we just dump all public programs, we could compete with the tax incentives provided by third-world countries too. Forgive me if I don't consider that to be progress...

If it's up to people to take responsibility for making things better, then it's also up to corporate citizens to share in that responsibility. Unfortunately, there's no incentives for them to do so. Keep prices competitive or die right?

You make some good points.
But then that brings me to my other point of view....
I believe governments have become too pussy to multinational corporations which is what's making this happen. If they stood up to the companies as entire countries or imposed harder laws to keep them from just packing up and going where ever is cheap then things would be a bit more level.

But now it's company A gets a new tax on their factory, obviously the company is rich enough to pay for it but instead they move the factory leaving people without jobs.

The government goes "come back!" and the corporations say "it's gonna cost you" and now the corporations can do business the same way they did before only this time they're saving/making way more money.

Which is the inherent problem in the system and the system I outlined before.

But unfortunately as long as people within the government are corrupt and are friends with these corporations(or are members themselves) this whole time and themselves make money off this(more than being in the government) they'll let their people get kicked in the balls a million times.

But the problems with the government is another post for another day.
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post #37 of 39
Quote:
Originally posted by ecking
But now it's company A gets a new tax on their factory, obviously the company is rich enough to pay for it but instead they move the factory leaving people without jobs.

The government goes "come back!" and the corporations say "it's gonna cost you" and now the corporations can do business the same way they did before only this time they're saving/making way more money.

The real world is far less dramatic than that. A more likely scenario is something like: we're a growing company that needs to ramp up our manufacturing. We're looking for a place to build our massive new production plant which will employ 1500 workers and bring $50,000,000 into the local economy. Let's shop the idea around to various governments and see who can offer us the best deal.

You can try to be tough as a government, but it'll just end up hurting your economy. Sure the companies with existing factories in your country may be forced to stay, but it'll cause every other company to pass your country up when deciding where they want to expand. And if a company really wanted to pull out badly enough, they could split their company up into regional divisions, and then shut down the regional division for your particular country. There are ways around anything.

The heart of the matter is trying to enforce global standards for corporate taxation rates and benefits, and that's nearly impossible. So what governments tend to do is focus on a couple of key industries and offer companies in those industries incentives to stay/take their business to that country.

The other option is to come up with some sort of incentive system for being a good corporate citizen and paying your fair share of taxes. For example, paying higher taxes which go directly to education would ensure that your company could hire coop students from local universities. Making companies see the benefit of paying taxes rather than blindly seeing taxes as something which they need to pay a team of accountants to avoid.
 
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post #38 of 39
Quote:
Originally posted by Anders
Well without it Ireland would have been at a totally other level.

You mean the general population of Ireland could have been living in over priced, over crowded accommodation, earning basic wage with little left to have some quality of living? Where one fifth of the population are unemployed? That level? ....hold on?
post #39 of 39
Quote:
Originally posted by MiMac
You mean the general population of Ireland could have been living in over priced, over crowded accommodation, earning basic wage with little left to have some quality of living? Where one fifth of the population are unemployed? That level? ....hold on?

EU gave you the second largest GDP per capita. Redistribution is your own problem.
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