or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Future Apple Hardware › The Intel Powermac / Powermac Conroe / Mac Pro thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

The Intel Powermac / Powermac Conroe / Mac Pro thread

post #1 of 947
Thread Starter 
Argh, I want it! The latest I heard was that it would likely ship, with the Conroe processor, in the third quarter of 2006. I'd guess that it would mirror the Powermac G5 introduction three years ago, where it's announced at WWDC and then the higher-end configurations start shipping en masse by November.

Has anybody heard any other interesting tidbits?
post #2 of 947
Conroe won't be shipping in volume until 2007.
"Humankind -- despite its artistic pretensions, its sophistication, and its many accomplishments -- owes its existence to a six-inch layer of topsoil and the fact that it rains."
Reply
"Humankind -- despite its artistic pretensions, its sophistication, and its many accomplishments -- owes its existence to a six-inch layer of topsoil and the fact that it rains."
Reply
post #3 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by theapplegenius
Conroe won't be shipping in volume until 2007.

According to who?

http://www.mikeshardware.co.uk/RoadmapQ306.htm

is updated frequently and has Conroe shipping in Q2 2006. Merom seems to have been pushed to 2007 but that kind of makes sense since Intel is getting traction with Yonah. Why replace Yonah so fast?

I think Conroe is on target because Intel is already hyping it with benchmarks

http://www.anandtech.com/tradeshows/showdoc.aspx?i=2712

http://www.anandtech.com/tradeshows/showdoc.aspx?i=2713

I expect Conroe Powermacs by Aug-Sept and Leopard to follow within the next 3 months.
He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
Reply
He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
Reply
post #4 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
[B]
Merom seems to have been pushed to 2007 but that kind of makes sense since Intel is getting traction with Yonah. Why replace Yonah so fast?
]

When did this happen? I'm trying to hold out for Merom and expected it this fall.
post #5 of 947
Murch, I went the link you provided. It reports Merom rtm in september. Do you have other info on this?
post #6 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by backtomac
When did this happen? I'm trying to hold out for Merom and expected it this fall.

Just rumors nothing official. Merom seems to be coming after Conroe however and Mikeshardware states Sept of this year. I think that's doable once they get Conroe shipping in quantity.

I want the prices of the Yonah chips to bottom out so I can upgrade my mini with a ICD 2.0Ghz. Gotta love socket upgrades.
He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
Reply
He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
Reply
post #7 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by Placebo
Argh, I want it! The latest I heard was that it would likely ship, with the Conroe processor, in the third quarter of 2006. I'd guess that it would mirror the Powermac G5 introduction three years ago, where it's announced at WWDC and then the higher-end configurations start shipping en masse by November.

Has anybody heard any other interesting tidbits?

Did boot camp change your mind about switching to a pc? Looks like an ideal solution for you.
post #8 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by backtomac
Murch, I went the link you provided. It reports Merom rtm in september. Do you have other info on this?

Nada

I'm looking for it though but only a few rumor sites like The Register and another have mentioned anything about Merom delays. Once Merom comes I know it will begin to push the yonah prices down and in a couple of years I want to be able to upgrade my mini with a 2Ghz for a couple of c-notes.

Hell boot camp and virtualization is changing my mind. Right now Apple is in a fine position. They have computers that can run 3 major OS. I'll be extoling these virtues to people near me because Windows XP at native speeds and a safe refuge (OS X) in one box is killer.
He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
Reply
He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
Reply
post #9 of 947
Woodcrest in June or July.
Conroe in August or September.
Merom in October.

So, looks like Pro Mac Desktop, err Mac Desktop Pro?, and Xserves will be announced during the August WWDC. 2 socket desktops from $2500 to $3300 using two 2.66 and 3 GHz Woodcrest CPUs (making it a "quad") on the Bensley platform (DIB and FB-DIMM memory). Single socket desktops from $1600 to $2200 using 2.4 and 2.66 GHz Conroe CPUs. Maybe.

Big question with the Extreme Edition chips though.
post #10 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by THT
Woodcrest in June or July.
Conroe in August or September.
Merom in October.

So, looks like Pro Mac Desktop, err Mac Desktop Pro?, and Xserves will be announced during the August WWDC. 2 socket desktops from $2500 to $3300 using two 2.66 and 3 GHz Woodcrest CPUs (making it a "quad") on the Bensley platform (DIB and FB-DIMM memory). Single socket desktops from $1600 to $2200 using 2.4 and 2.66 GHz Conroe CPUs. Maybe.

Big question with the Extreme Edition chips though.

They should find a place in their product line for Conroe. That's gonna be a good chip if early indications are acurate.
post #11 of 947
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by backtomac
Did boot camp change your mind about switching to a pc? Looks like an ideal solution for you.

Yes sir it did. This will be very nice indeed, provided that Apple supplies nice XP drivers for its videocards. I assume it'll just swap in the PC drivers, are the Mac cards any different from the PC ones now that the Intel switch happened?

I'll still have to pay a premium but by the sounds of it processors on the new Macs are upgradeable.
post #12 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
According to who?

Well, Conroe will be shipping in Q3 2006, but they won't be shipping in volume until late 2006/early 2007. a.k.a. Apple will have a hell of a time shipping computers out in volume. Want another MacBook Pro fiasco on a larger scale?
"Humankind -- despite its artistic pretensions, its sophistication, and its many accomplishments -- owes its existence to a six-inch layer of topsoil and the fact that it rains."
Reply
"Humankind -- despite its artistic pretensions, its sophistication, and its many accomplishments -- owes its existence to a six-inch layer of topsoil and the fact that it rains."
Reply
post #13 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by theapplegenius
Well, Conroe will be shipping in Q3 2006, but they won't be shipping in volume until late 2006/early 2007. a.k.a. Apple will have a hell of a time shipping computers out in volume. Want another MacBook Pro fiasco on a larger scale?

And what "MacBook Pro fiasco" was/is that?
post #14 of 947
The one where you couldn't get one...
"Humankind -- despite its artistic pretensions, its sophistication, and its many accomplishments -- owes its existence to a six-inch layer of topsoil and the fact that it rains."
Reply
"Humankind -- despite its artistic pretensions, its sophistication, and its many accomplishments -- owes its existence to a six-inch layer of topsoil and the fact that it rains."
Reply
post #15 of 947
Quote:
Want another MacBook Pro fiasco on a larger scale?

The MacBook Pro was not a fiasco by any means, I'm not even aware of a major problem. The original Power Mac G4, now that was a *fiasco*.

When the MacBook Pro shipped, Apple upgraded people's machines with faster processors. The MacBook Pros were announced in January and shipping was to begin in February. They started shipping out on February 14th.

When the Power Mac G4s shipped, Apple downgraded people's machines with slower processors. The Power Macs were announced in late August and some did not ship for months. Some models used "Yikes" (modified G3) motherboards with PCI graphics while others used "Sawtooth" motherboards with AGP graphics. To make things worse, the "Yikes" motherboards were phased out in December when G4s had just started shipping in decent quantities, causing outrage among people who had just received their "Yikes" G4s that had been ordered in August.

Those few months were probably the worst for Apple since Jobs took the company back over in 1997.
post #16 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by theapplegenius
The one where you couldn't get one...

You mean the one where it said that they'd be available in early February, and they ended up being available a single week later than previously stated, but at the same time, significantly upgraded, for no additional money?

Oh yeah, huge fiasco that is.

And surely it has to do with the Yonah, seeing as, uh, the iMac wasn't quite available, right? Only the trouble with that theory is: it was. Very widely available. Interationally. So even if there was a major delay with the MacBook Pro, it didn't have to do with Yonah at all.
post #17 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by backtomac
When did this happen? I'm trying to hold out for Merom and expected it this fall.

There are many rumours that Intel might push Merom back to coincide with the Santa Rosa platform. Yonah is a very good chip in its own right and this gives them time to recoup more money from the development.
Quote:
Originally posted by theapplegenius
Well, Conroe will be shipping in Q3 2006, but they won't be shipping in volume until late 2006/early 2007. a.k.a. Apple will have a hell of a time shipping computers out in volume. Want another MacBook Pro fiasco on a larger scale?

What crap. It'll be available in volume for the likes of Dell et al to launch with around September/October. Pretty much right in line with announcement. There has been zero evidence of any delays. That said the Core chips won't comprise a large portion of Intel's shipments by year end but that's because they will start in the premium product lines and nothing to do with volumes and availabilities.
"When I was a kid, my favourite relative was Uncle Caveman. After school, wed all go play in his cave, and every once and awhile, hed eat one of us. It wasnt until later that I discovered Uncle...
Reply
"When I was a kid, my favourite relative was Uncle Caveman. After school, wed all go play in his cave, and every once and awhile, hed eat one of us. It wasnt until later that I discovered Uncle...
Reply
post #18 of 947
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Fran441
The MacBook Pro was not a fiasco by any means, I'm not even aware of a major problem. The original Power Mac G4, now that was a *fiasco*.

When the MacBook Pro shipped, Apple upgraded people's machines with faster processors. The MacBook Pros were announced in January and shipping was to begin in February. They started shipping out on February 14th.

When the Power Mac G4s shipped, Apple downgraded people's machines with slower processors. The Power Macs were announced in late August and some did not ship for months. Some models used "Yikes" (modified G3) motherboards with PCI graphics while others used "Sawtooth" motherboards with AGP graphics. To make things worse, the "Yikes" motherboards were phased out in December when G4s had just started shipping in decent quantities, causing outrage among people who had just received their "Yikes" G4s that had been ordered in August.

Those few months were probably the worst for Apple since Jobs took the company back over in 1997.

Oh man, so that's why they called it "Yikes!". I had never heard the whole story.
post #19 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by Placebo
Oh man, so that's why they called it "Yikes!". I had never heard the whole story.

Well, the story was even worse:

Apple introduced a 400Mhz G4 Yikes, a 450Mhz and 500Mhz G4 Sawtooth in September 1999 and were forced to scale the speed back to 350Mhz, 400Mhz and 450Mhz a couple of weeks later because of an eratta in the 500Mhz G4's.

The first time Apple could actually deliver a 500Mhz G4 tower was 5 months later, in february 2000.

In january 2001 Apple was finally able to introduce G4's faster than 500Mhz.

I think this was, along with the introduction of the ill fated Cube and the Apple stock crash of september 2000 the blackest time after Steve Jobs return.
alles sal reg kom
Reply
alles sal reg kom
Reply
post #20 of 947
Thread Starter 
I think it was pretty epic when it took Apple and IBM eight months to hike the G5 200MHz. And IBM was supposed to reduce all those Motorola delays and stagnant development. Hopefully those days are over with the Intel switch.

I personally think that they'll launch the new Mac Pro or whatever it's to be called at WWDC, and apparently UBS and another analyst share my opinion. (although analysts don't know much more than we do)
post #21 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by Telomar
There are many rumours that Intel might push Merom back to coincide with the Santa Rosa platform. Yonah is a very good chip in its own right and this gives them time to recoup more money from the development.
What crap. It'll be available in volume for the likes of Dell et al to launch with around September/October. Pretty much right in line with announcement. There has been zero evidence of any delays. That said the Core chips won't comprise a large portion of Intel's shipments by year end but that's because they will start in the premium product lines and nothing to do with volumes and availabilities.

Yes ICD is very nice. This fall I'll just buy the best MBP for muy needs. Was kinda hoping for merom but ICD will do just fine. As far as Conroe, I hope and think it will rtm on time. As far as availability to Apple, they shopuld get first dibs along with dell since they are intel exclusive shops. Conroe looks like a fine chip but faces stiff competition from AMD. This may mute demand from Hp.
post #22 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by Placebo
Yes sir it did. This will be very nice indeed, provided that Apple supplies nice XP drivers for its videocards. I assume it'll just swap in the PC drivers, are the Mac cards any different from the PC ones now that the Intel switch happened?

I'll still have to pay a premium but by the sounds of it processors on the new Macs are upgradeable.

The only difference the cards have had is firmware. And, of course, ATI produces a card that has firmware for both. Too bad it's an old GPU. But it just shows that not only can it be done, but that the cpu in the machine really doesn't matter.

I'm still wishing that Apple's new towers will include at least one with dual Woodcrests.
post #23 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by theapplegenius
Well, Conroe will be shipping in Q3 2006, but they won't be shipping in volume until late 2006/early 2007. a.k.a. Apple will have a hell of a time shipping computers out in volume. Want another MacBook Pro fiasco on a larger scale?

That's why I'm still thinking Woodcrests. They will be out earlier. Possibly 3rd quarter, and are really the match-up Apple needs against Opteron's, and, of course, comparable machines from the PC camp using Xeons, which will be Woodcrests!
post #24 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by Placebo
Oh man, so that's why they called it "Yikes!". I had never heard the whole story.

Yikes was before the problem. It was with the Sawtooth that the problem emerged. I had ordered my daughter a 450Mhz machine right after they were announced. Then, a couple of weeks afterwards, Apple announced that all the machines would be degraded (my word, not theirs) by 50MHz. The outcry was rather, uh, unmuted, let us say.

So, they announced that everyone who had ordered a machine before the announcement would get what they ordered, but those who had ordered afterwards would get the slower machines.

That was the beginning of the end of Apple's reign of superior firepower.
post #25 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
That's why I'm still thinking Woodcrests. They will be out earlier. Possibly 3rd quarter, and are really the match-up Apple needs against Opteron's, and, of course, comparable machines from the PC camp using Xeons, which will be Woodcrests!

Where do you think Conroe fits in?
post #26 of 947
Conroe would be more for the iMac.
post #27 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by jackbauer
Conroe would be more for the iMac.

Exactly. Because that is Apples consumer desktop.
They have maintained that the PowerMac was their Pro Workstation.
onlooker
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: parts unknown




http://www.apple.com/feedback/macpro.html
Reply
onlooker
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: parts unknown




http://www.apple.com/feedback/macpro.html
Reply
post #28 of 947
If the power requirements were low enough. That would make a killer iMac.

But, in video editing, we are always comparing the highest end machines against one another, and Conroe just doesn't make it.

Woodcrest has a max 1.333GHs memory bus compared to the 1.066GHz bus for Conroe. With Intel's limitations in that area compared to AMD, every MHz helps. Remember, even though the bus's are different, the 2.5GHz G5 had a 1.250GHz bus.

As I said, Apple could use Conroe for the lower models, and use Woodcrest for the high end.

Don't forget that Pixar is writing software for OS X. And Jobs made the statement a couple of years that he hated writing those checks out to Dell.

Also, supposedly, Apple is coming out with something major for NAB, later this month. Software, and hardware. 17" MBP? Maybe. But, maybe something else.

EDIT:

Oh, yeah, Conroe will be showing up on every $750 PC around. Think about it.
post #29 of 947
I'm seeing a continuing and disturbing trend here that defies logic.

Conroe AND Woodcrest share the same core. They both have the same 14 pipeline stage Core Architecture. The primary difference is that Woodcrest supports SMP and has a 1333 FSB to Conroe's 1066, support Dual Independent Bus and perhaps twice the L2(which I am beginning to doubt that it will at launch)

Thus Conroe in not really a consumer only processor. In fact Yonah is more likely the new consumer desktop Conroe the midrange and Woodcrest the highend.

No you won't see all Woodcrest Powermac replacements because to benefit you'd have to have dual socket motherboards and that is expensive.

The iMac may not take conroe that well because its TDP is 65 watts. That's pretty hot for the iMacs thin chassis. We'll see what Apple engineers can do.

If you're running a computer with a single Conroe vs a single Woodcrest the differences in speed will be very minute. The two have the same core so any other differences would come down to cache, FSB and perhaps effect from the DIB. Very small in the real world just as a XEON isn't that much faster than a Pentium 4 until you move to SMP systems.
He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
Reply
He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
Reply
post #30 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
I'm seeing a continuing and disturbing trend here that defies logic.

Conroe AND Woodcrest share the same core. They both have the same 14 pipeline stage Core Architecture. The primary difference is that Woodcrest supports SMP and has a 1333 FSB to Conroe's 1066, support Dual Independent Bus and perhaps twice the L2(which I am beginning to doubt that it will at launch)

Thus Conroe in not really a consumer only processor. In fact Yonah is more likely the new consumer desktop Conroe the midrange and Woodcrest the highend.

No you won't see all Woodcrest Powermac replacements because to benefit you'd have to have dual socket motherboards and that is expensive.

The iMac may not take conroe that well because its TDP is 65 watts. That's pretty hot for the iMacs thin chassis. We'll see what Apple engineers can do.

If you're running a computer with a single Conroe vs a single Woodcrest the differences in speed will be very minute. The two have the same core so any other differences would come down to cache, FSB and perhaps effect from the DIB. Very small in the real world just as a XEON isn't that much faster than a Pentium 4 until you move to SMP systems.

I'm not so sure about that. I'm seeing references to possibly a 15% or greater performance level from the cache alone. It's unlikely that any PM's would have a single chip.

I would think that $3,300 for a machine would put it into the proper catagory.

I'm not talking about the less expensive models. I made that clear.
post #31 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by jackbauer
Conroe would be more for the iMac.

if conroe is shipping q2 06, would such an iMac come out in june, or at aug wwdc (or some other time)?

sennen
"We're Apple. We don't wear suits. We don't even own suits."
Reply
"We're Apple. We don't wear suits. We don't even own suits."
Reply
post #32 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
If the power requirements were low enough. That would make a killer iMac.

But, in video editing, we are always comparing the highest end machines against one another, and Conroe just doesn't make it.

Woodcrest has a max 1.333GHs memory bus compared to the 1.066GHz bus for Conroe. With Intel's limitations in that area compared to AMD, every MHz helps. Remember, even though the bus's are different, the 2.5GHz G5 had a 1.250GHz bus.

As I said, Apple could use Conroe for the lower models, and use Woodcrest for the high end.

Don't forget that Pixar is writing software for OS X. And Jobs made the statement a couple of years that he hated writing those checks out to Dell.

Also, supposedly, Apple is coming out with something major for NAB, later this month. Software, and hardware. 17" MBP? Maybe. But, maybe something else.

EDIT:

Oh, yeah, Conroe will be showing up on every $750 PC around. Think about it.

The Conroe Extreme Edition will be 3.33GHz and will be sporting a 1333MHz bus. Nothing wrong with that.
"Humankind -- despite its artistic pretensions, its sophistication, and its many accomplishments -- owes its existence to a six-inch layer of topsoil and the fact that it rains."
Reply
"Humankind -- despite its artistic pretensions, its sophistication, and its many accomplishments -- owes its existence to a six-inch layer of topsoil and the fact that it rains."
Reply
post #33 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by theapplegenius
The Conroe Extreme Edition will be 3.33GHz and will be sporting a 1333MHz bus. Nothing wrong with that.

It still has a smaller cache. almost no one buys the extreme editions because of the expense. It likely will cost more than a Woodcrest, and be hotter.
post #34 of 947
I read on a dutch forum the 2.4Ghz Conroe has 4MB L2 cache and has passive cooling (no fan).
Operating temperature between 35-37 degree celcius, IIRC.
I think it will easily fit in an iMac and will run cooler than the iMacG5.
alles sal reg kom
Reply
alles sal reg kom
Reply
post #35 of 947
Thread Starter 
Conroe is currently beating the highest-end AMD X2 dualcore (even overclocked above what AMD sells them at) by decent margins as depicted in one of the articles posted already in this thread. How is this not worthy to be a workstation processor?
post #36 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by Placebo
Conroe is currently beating the highest-end AMD X2 dualcore (even overclocked above what AMD sells them at) by decent margins as depicted in one of the articles posted already in this thread. How is this not worthy to be a workstation processor?

I don't understand that either.
alles sal reg kom
Reply
alles sal reg kom
Reply
post #37 of 947
What ever it will be, it will be way fast
http://www.hardware.fr/articles/617-...e-desktop.html
suggest that the current laptop CPUs are enough to be at the very top of the best desktop AMD and Intel CPUs.
The replacement of the G5 towers will be faster than that and still not as hot as the G5. Perhaps we can go back to have 2 optical and 4 HDs in those huge towers

When the time comes I will get a ProTower at work to be able to do some Windows only stuff and still have the security and ease of OS X.

The same for home (true RTA, half-life2 etc..)
post #38 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by jackbauer
Conroe would be more for the iMac.

That would be one smoking iMac. Perhaps in more ways than one.
post #39 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by Placebo
Conroe is currently beating the highest-end AMD X2 dualcore (even overclocked above what AMD sells them at) by decent margins as depicted in one of the articles posted already in this thread. How is this not worthy to be a workstation processor?

Because Woodcrest would be faster with 1333 MHz FSB data rates. As hmurchison said, Conroe and Woodcrest are exactly the same core except for different FSB, cache options, and chipset support. Oh, and price. Who knows what Apple will do though.

I'm still sticking to my prediction. The low end Mac Pro machines will be single socket Conroe machines. [Note that "single socket Conroe" is redundant. By definition, all Conroe systems will be single socket systems.] The high end Mac Pro machines will be 2 socket Woodcrest machines using the Glidewell platform (workstation version of Bensley). For the middle range, one can probably flip a coin on it being single socket or 2 socket.
post #40 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by Placebo
Conroe is currently beating the highest-end AMD X2 dualcore (even overclocked above what AMD sells them at) by decent margins as depicted in one of the articles posted already in this thread. How is this not worthy to be a workstation processor?

Because that's not a workstation cpu. And it wasn't the highest ens model. It was a model at about the same speed as the Conroe.

The workstation models are the Opteron's.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Future Apple Hardware
AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Future Apple Hardware › The Intel Powermac / Powermac Conroe / Mac Pro thread