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The Intel Powermac / Powermac Conroe / Mac Pro thread - Page 9

post #321 of 947

Saw that at cnnfn.com. Think I'll wait for Merom in August, although current MBPs are tempting. June and July should be VERY interesting.
post #322 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
[B]One of many resources say that woodcrest is only 80 watts.
todays XEON's are 110 watts. Paxville is 170 watts, Woodcrest is 40% less than Paxville.

Sorry onlooker, I don't mean to nitpick here, but I thought you ought to know that the Woodcrest is approx 112.5% less than Paxville

Math for it: ((A - B) / B) where A= Paxville and B=Woodcrest.

I know, I know, now I am just nitpicking.... But hey, which sounds better??

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post #323 of 947
So nobody thinks Conroe is going into the next iMac?
post #324 of 947
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by kim kap sol
And you're not.

Please be quiet. Thank you.
post #325 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by MacSuperiority
So nobody thinks Conroe is going into the next iMac?

Not me. I think heat may be an issue. I look for Merom to go in when it is available.
post #326 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by backtomac
Not me. I think heat may be an issue. I look for Merom to go in when it is available.

So you think its gonna be hotter than the 2.0Ghz G5?
post #327 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by MacSuperiority
So you think its gonna be hotter than the 2.0Ghz G5?

Probably about the same. I'm really not sure but have heard from others that it is. With Merom, no need to worry about cooling and should get performance that exceeds a g5. It is a close call however. If Conroe doesn't go in the entry level powermac then probably will go in iMac.
post #328 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by Placebo
Please be quiet. Thank you.

Ditto.
post #329 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by Thereubster
I just meant that because they are running faster (3.0 and 3.33Ghz on a 1333FSB) there is going to be more heat, I thought they had a 80w or more TDP? Which isn't far off the G5...


AT LAST!!

3ghz by summer 2007!!

\
post #330 of 947
yeah only 3 years late....
Idiot, slow down....

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Idiot, slow down....

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post #331 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by backtomac
Probably about the same. I'm really not sure but have heard from others that it is. With Merom, no need to worry about cooling and should get performance that exceeds a g5. It is a close call however. If Conroe doesn't go in the entry level powermac then probably will go in iMac.

The Conroe will use about the same power as a 2GHz G5. Unless Apple redesigned the case for LESS ventilation, it should work fine.

Of course, both the Yonah and Merom use considerably less power than either. About 34 watts for them vs about 65 watts for the G5 and Conroe. But, I believe the dual core 2GHz G5 doesn't use much more than 65 watts either.

Of course, there's always the fact that IBM doesn't give the total power but average power, so it's difficult to make a direct comparison. THe G5's likely use more, therefor.
post #332 of 947
I don't know if anyone has already pointed this out, but "Conroe LV" and "Merom" are basically the same chip, with the same power consumption. So I don't think it matters which one we get in the iMac.
post #333 of 947
Are we talking about conroeLV? I thought we were talking about the standard conroe chip??
post #334 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by MacSuperiority
Are we talking about conroeLV? I thought we were talking about the standard conroe chip??

Since it is a Mac Pro thread, I thought we were talking about Woodcrest CPUs

;^p
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post #335 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by MacRonin
Since it is a Mac Pro thread, I thought we were talking about Woodcrest CPUs

;^p

So are you saying that the woodcrest is going in the Mac Pros and the conroe is going in something else??

This is what i was saying...
post #336 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by MacRonin
Since it is a Mac Pro thread, I thought we were talking about Woodcrest CPUs

;^p

Well, sure, be we kind of meander around.

I'm really just interested in the tower now, because I passed up the Quad when it was announced that we would be getting the Intel models by the end of this year, instead of the end of next year.

But, people are always asking me about the other models, so it's good to get input from other people here on those as well.
post #337 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by MacSuperiority
So are you saying that the woodcrest is going in the Mac Pros and the conroe is going in something else??

This is what i was saying...

I don't know if MacRonin is saying that, but I've been pushing that idea for months.
post #338 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
I don't know if MacRonin is saying that, but I've been pushing that idea for months.

Remember, the Cube is still 'on ice'

If they could pack a dual-core Conroe into the same basic volume (venting out the back, thereby allowing the usage of the space originally lost by the clear plexi skirt), with room for two HDDs & two graphics/expansion slots

If said slots were SLI/CrossFire capable, all the better

Perfect mid-range headless hobbiest DCC/gaming/'expandable' Mac

(most folks who purchase a unit with good expansion capabilities rarely use said expandability)

While the larger Mac Pro chassis holds the fire-breathing dual Woodcrest (dual-core/quad-core) CPUs, four HDDs & more expansion slots And SLI/CrossFire capable

We will save the rackmount/deskside model for the Quad Woodcrest (quad-core) CPUs, and quad SLI goodness!

;^p
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post #339 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by MacRonin
Remember, the Cube is still 'on ice'

If they could pack a dual-core Conroe into the same basic volume (venting out the back, thereby allowing the usage of the space originally lost by the clear plexi skirt), with room for two HDDs & two graphics/expansion slots

If said slots were SLI/CrossFire capable, all the better

Perfect mid-range headless hobbiest DCC/gaming/'expandable' Mac

(most folks who purchase a unit with good expansion capabilities rarely use said expandability)

While the larger Mac Pro chassis holds the fire-breathing dual Woodcrest (dual-core/quad-core) CPUs, four HDDs & more expansion slots And SLI/CrossFire capable

We will save the rackmount/deskside model for the Quad Woodcrest (quad-core) CPUs, and quad SLI goodness!

;^p

Please don't get my heart pounding too much, I'm 56, I could end up on the floor.
post #340 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by MacSuperiority
So nobody thinks Conroe is going into the next iMac?

I think a conroe, or conroe LV will go into one of them, but it wont be real soon or anything. The iMac is still too new AFAIAC.
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post #341 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by MacRonin
Remember, the Cube is still 'on ice'

If they could pack a dual-core Conroe into the same basic volume (venting out the back, thereby allowing the usage of the space originally lost by the clear plexi skirt), ...

What you're describing is not a Cube but a Shuttle, but perhaps a bit larger for two HDDs and two graphics card slots. The Shuttle form-factor is great - I've got two of them. As for the dual HDDs and SLI, very few consumers use more than one HDD, and SLI is of interest to virtually nobody (fewer than .001% of computer users). Shuttle's been making machines for years, and they don't appear to have had much demand for either feature.

I doubt Apple will make such a machine. They are concentrating on what sells right now, and that's notebooks and iMacs. They do need a headless machine, and far and away the most popular type of headless machine these days is a standard minitower, so that's what I'd expect.
post #342 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by cubist
What you're describing is not a Cube but a Shuttle, but perhaps a bit larger for two HDDs and two graphics card slots. The Shuttle form-factor is great - I've got two of them. As for the dual HDDs and SLI, very few consumers use more than one HDD, and SLI is of interest to virtually nobody (fewer than .001% of computer users). Shuttle's been making machines for years, and they don't appear to have had much demand for either feature.

I doubt Apple will make such a machine. They are concentrating on what sells right now, and that's notebooks and iMacs. They do need a headless machine, and far and away the most popular type of headless machine these days is a standard minitower, so that's what I'd expect.

The difference between what Apple has access to now vs what they had access to before, could herald a difference in their plans.

Previously, they had a rather stark choice. A G4, fast becoming obsolete, and the G5 pretty fast, but slightly behind the Xeon, and further behind the Opteron, because of lack of development.

Now, they have access to a number of chip families.

This can lead to a change in thinking at Apple. With everything from ultra low voltage single core portable chips, to high end dual, and shortly after, four core monsters, Apple can finally design machines that they simply couldn't before.

I don't think that we should rule anything out anymore. There is no reason why Apple must stay within the boundaries it's been restricted to previously.

With the market now opened up to the PC world as well, where people are used to seeing a larger number of models, Apple could greatly benefit by taking advantage of the opportunity to cater to more groups that it has been able to before.

If you look at the catalogs of the largest manufacturers, you will see that they have quite a few more models than Apple has. While I'm not saying that they should go wild here, I am saying that another line in the desktop area, and another line in the portable area wouldn't hurt, and would be beneficial to those who just don't find Apple's current offerings appealing.
post #343 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross

While I'm not saying that they should go wild here, I am saying that another line in the desktop area, and another line in the portable area wouldn't hurt, and would be beneficial to those who just don't find Apple's current offerings appealing.

AHMEN.
post #344 of 947
Another link. Interesting performance comparisons here. Of course, they are from Intel, but still...

I ignore the ViiV stuff, as it doesn't pertain to us.

The Woodcrest info is at the bottom.

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=31341
post #345 of 947
If anyone would like to read a good article about Intel, which inckludes shipping dates for the chip families, this will be helpful.

Way at the bottom is an interesting statement that by the end of next year the costs of dual core will reach the prices as single core.

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=31316
post #346 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by Mike Eggleston
Sorry onlooker, I don't mean to nitpick here, but I thought you ought to know that the Woodcrest is approx 112.5% less than Paxville

Math for it: ((A - B) / B) where A= Paxville and B=Woodcrest.

I know, I know, now I am just nitpicking.... But hey, which sounds better??

It should be ((A-B)/A). You can't use 113% less unless you are using some weird power generating CPU
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post #347 of 947
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Telomar
It should be ((A-B)/A). You can't use 113% less unless you are using some weird power generating CPU

Unless, oh, he means an increase over another chip?
post #348 of 947
You can never be over 100% less than something unless you can go negative, which would be impossible for power consumption. He said less, he meant less, he just made a simple mathematical error.

That said there's something to be said for checking your maths by considering the feasibility of the answer you output. In this day and age it is scary how many young engineers have learnt to plug numbers into a program and have no thought about what the output number really implies. That's completely unrelated though
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post #349 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by Mike Eggleston
Sorry onlooker, I don't mean to nitpick here, but I thought you ought to know that the Woodcrest is approx 112.5% less than Paxville

Math for it: ((A - B) / B) where A= Paxville and B=Woodcrest.

I know, I know, now I am just nitpicking.... But hey, which sounds better??

I didn't do the Math.
I actually copy, and pasted that from one of the the articles I was scourning the web for. I think it was intels CFO's math. Not sure though.
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post #350 of 947
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Telomar
You can never be over 100% less than something unless you can go negative, which would be impossible for power consumption. He said less, he meant less, he just made a simple mathematical error.

Well, maybe if Chip B uses 200% more power than Chip A, you could say that Chip C uses 130% less power than Chip B, in terms of A.
post #351 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by Placebo
Well, maybe if Chip B uses 200% more power than Chip A, you could say that Chip C uses 130% less power than Chip B, in terms of A.

You can say that. It's just confusing to most people, but it would be correct technically.
post #352 of 947
Who gives a crap about the math anyway. WWDC is early August. (AUG. 7 - 11)
intel is shopping Woodcrest in June, Conroe July, and Merom in August.

I think The PowerMac may come out before WWDC. Maybe a few products before WWDC.


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post #353 of 947
If Woodcrest is SHIPPING in June, then I would expect to see the Mac Pro Towers announced late May/early June. Apple isn't going to want to sit on them for 2 months (announce 7th august shp immediately) now are they? Even Siggraph is too late.
They were the first computer manufacturer shipping Core Duo (in the iMac) I bet they will want to be the first to ship Woodcrest too.
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post #354 of 947
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post #355 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
Who gives a crap about the math anyway. WWDC is early August. (AUG. 7 - 11)
intel is shopping Woodcrest in June, Conroe July, and Merom in August.

I think The PowerMac may come out before WWDC. Maybe a few products before WWDC.


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Apple ignited the personal computer revolution in the 1970s with the Apple II and reinvented the personal computer in the 1980s with the Macintosh. Apple is widely recognized for its innovative and award-winning Mac desktop and notebook computers, OS X operating system, and iLife digital lifestyle and professional applications. Apple is also leading the digital music revolution with its market-leading iPod line of portable music players and iTunes online music store.

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Let's not demean our elementary education in arithmetic.

But, I can't see Apple waiting if the chips are out. Other manufacturers won't wait. If Apple won't take the chips, they will.

We shouldn't forget what happened with the Yonah. Apple had the first shipping in quantity machines with the iMac. In fact, I read that some other companies were complaining that Apple got first dibs.

It could happen again. I'm sure that Jobs wants to get this over with as soon as possible.

We might also remember the rumors about Apple trying to get Intel to release this new series early. Perhaps the rush is partly due to that pressure after all.
post #356 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by Thereubster
If Woodcrest is SHIPPING in June, then I would expect to see the Mac Pro Towers announced late May/early June. Apple isn't going to want to sit on them for 2 months (announce 7th august shp immediately) now are they? Even Siggraph is too late.
They were the first computer manufacturer shipping Core Duo (in the iMac) I bet they will want to be the first to ship Woodcrest too.

Apple may not want to announce until they have sufficient quantities on hand.

They have learned something from the G5 iMac fiasco. Remember that one?
post #357 of 947
Thread Starter 

That site is masturbation for the guy who writes the stuff.
post #358 of 947
Thread Starter 
I frankly think that Apple should announce the Mac Pro whether they're going to ship it the same month or not, and then accept preorders. That way they can ship it any time they practically want without disappointing people, and perhaps also offer the Powermac G5s at wholesale prices at the same time so those can be cleared out before the Mac Pros actually hit production.
post #359 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by Placebo
Argh, I want it! The latest I heard was that it would likely ship, with the Conroe processor, in the third quarter of 2006. I'd guess that it would mirror the Powermac G5 introduction three years ago, where it's announced at WWDC and then the higher-end configurations start shipping en masse by November.

Has anybody heard any other interesting tidbits?

i thought you were going to switch to windows/linux..
maybe boot camp changed your mind..
no really!
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post #360 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by Placebo
I frankly think that Apple should announce the Mac Pro whether they're going to ship it the same month or not, and then accept preorders. That way they can ship it any time they practically want without disappointing people, and perhaps also offer the Powermac G5s at wholesale prices at the same time so those can be cleared out before the Mac Pros actually hit production.

Wholesale? Wholesale?!
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