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The Intel Powermac / Powermac Conroe / Mac Pro thread - Page 11

post #401 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by bell
I passed 70-290 with 1000/1000 today, and I can refer a good site, pass4sure.com

I am a fresh man for the certification, and my company need employee get MCSE2003 cert in 3 month, I start with some MOC books and frustrated with huge contents. and I failed at the first try for 70-290, but I met a friend who taking 70-290 also, he passed easily, and I know from him a good site named pass4sure.com, I used 70-290 from Pass4sure, every questions WORD 4 WORD was on the test. Unlike testking where you have to read huge number of questions (which more than half will never be on the test) these were easy to read b/c only about 200 even fewer questions. They also don't change any wording or layout like testking.

Uh oh, here we go again!
post #402 of 947
Somebody ban this guy's IP.
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post #403 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
Somebody ban this guy's IP.

The problem is that they move the IP's around. It could be coming from robot machines.
post #404 of 947
Now we're talking! finally some news about Woodcrest, and it's good. A big reason why these chips could (should) find their way into the new towers.

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=31789
post #405 of 947
Time to start to bite fingernails and hold the the plastic card tightly. Tell self "wait for second revison", repeat8)
post #406 of 947
If its an " almost bug free" die wouldn't prices possibly come down? That is good news. "runs faster than expected, and takes less power" Also great news. 20% less power.
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post #407 of 947
I've actually stopped myself from ordering a MacBook so that I can tough out another year with my stinkin' ThinkPad (the laptop itself is great, the OS on it is not ) in anticipation for dual-Woodcrests goodness (saving money for the top-end Pro towers, yeeeehaw). Looks like dual-Woodcrest can become a reality without massive cooling if the 65-watts bit is true.
post #408 of 947
I was going to start putting $100 a month away to get a PS3, but I'm leaning towards putting $400 a month away to get a substantial amount out of the way on a dual woodcrest machine with the new QuadroFX in it. The $400 a month for 3 months is for the QuadroFX, but it's something I need, and I'm getting totally excited about these Workstations. I know they are going to rock like no other.
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post #409 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
I was going to start putting $100 a month away to get a PS3, but I'm leaning towards putting $400 a month away to get a substantial amount out of the way on a dual woodcrest machine with the new QuadroFX in it. The $400 a month for 3 months is for the QuadroFX, but it's something I need, and I'm getting totally excited about these Workstations. I know they are going to rock like no other.

At first I thought "what the hell am I gonna do with 2 dual-core processors" but I've been recently planning to make my next Mac a monster entertainement center that'll do everything from basic Front Row stuff to PVR to Skype as well as a bunch of other stuff...and I'd like all of it to happen simultaneously in real-time without having to worry about the load on the computer.

I think it'll be important that I get at least quad for all of it to work simultaneously...and since dual-core is going mainstream, we're going to start seeing a lot of apps and games that start optimizing for SMP benefits.

If the entire Pro lineup goes dual-dual-core...I'll be more than happy...if not, I've saved up enough money to get the top-end.
post #410 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by kim kap sol
At first I thought "what the hell am I gonna do with 2 dual-core processors" but I've been recently planning to make my next Mac a monster entertainement center that'll do everything from basic Front Row stuff to PVR to Skype as well as a bunch of other stuff...and I'd like all of it to happen simultaneously in real-time without having to worry about the load on the computer.

I think it'll be important that I get at least quad for all of it to work simultaneously...and since dual-core is going mainstream, we're going to start seeing a lot of apps and games that start optimizing for SMP benefits.

If the entire Pro lineup goes dual-dual-core...I'll be more than happy...if not, I've saved up enough money to get the top-end.

The better the computer you get, the longer you can go before you have to get another one. It can average out, over the long run.
post #411 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
The better the computer you get, the longer you can go before you have to get another one. It can average out, over the long run.

That's true...I bought my 2x800 G4 Quicksilver 5 years ago...it was, IIRC, the best computer you could get from Apple. It lasted me, well, 5 years. Of course, I had to upgrade to a Radeon 8500 and my burner and HD died out of warranty a little over a year ago, so I put maybe 500 on it since I first bought it...not bad, IMO.

I plan on doing the same...I'm gonna buy the top-end Pro tower. Should last me another 5 years.
post #412 of 947
I agree with melgross.

I always buy the top end machine. But I always buy the Rev B. Every one of my PowerMacs have lasted over three years each. My Quicksilver went the longest before an upgrade, 4 years.
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post #413 of 947
Looks like we have a few people anxiously awaiting the Mac Pro arrival. I'm actually hoping it has two -16X full speed PCI-E slots. I'll throw two quadro's in there without thinking twice about it.
If your wondering what you would do with those extra cores. Any type of rendering should see almost double the performance. Most 3D rendering is done from the CPU not the GPU, but with Apples core image, and core video I think some is offloaded to the GPU. (like it needs it). All I really do know is my Mental Ray render times should be pretty impressive. And with two quadro's I should be able to work, and move models, and scenes around with billions of polygons without any fuss. {end of excited rant mode]
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post #414 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
Looks like we have a few people anxiously awaiting the Mac Pro arrival. I'm actually hoping it has two -16X full speed PCI-E slots. I'll throw two quadro's in there without thinking twice about it.
If your wondering what you would do with those extra cores. Any type of rendering should see almost double the performance. Most 3D rendering is done from the CPU not the GPU, but with Apples core image, and core video I think some is offloaded to the GPU. (like it needs it). All I really do know is my Mental Ray render times should be pretty impressive. And with two quadro's I should be able to work, and move models, and scenes around with billions of polygons without any fuss. {end of excited rant mode]

Yeah, I'm waiting. I was going to buy a Quad after Macworld, because I never buy them when they first come out, and I had just the slightest suspicion that Jobs might announce an accelerated schedule.

Since I sold my business, I don't really need it, so I can afford to wait. It's really tough, if you do need it though.
post #415 of 947
August seems like an eternity away, but I think I can save about $2,500.00 by then. That should take a big chunk out of my credit card payment.
I wonder what Apple actually has in store for us by then? They could conceivably have a larger range of base systems to choose from by then.
Knowing they have windows available for gamers, and 3D game developers. and modelers that can use both platforms in one box alone could possibly open them to a range of systems. And that range also goes the other direction for the windows world as well. I'm thinking of 3 unique motherboards, or possibly 4.
  • Hardcore Performance
  • 1 dual socket (woodcrest) regular

    Hardcore Performance, and Hardcore Graphics
  • 1 dual socket (woodcrest) 2 full speed 16X PCI-E (SLI capable)

    High Performance
  • 1 single socket (conroe) regular

    High Performance, and Hardcore Graphics.
  • 1 single socket (conroe) 2 full speed 16X PCI-E (SLI capable)

This would give them the broadest range of possible users. But I think they can still do it with two motherboard designs. A single socket, and dual socket. Apple now, and in the past always seems to have 2 motherboards, a single socket, and dual socket. They could just keep that and have two full speed 16x PCI-E slots in all of them. that would keep them with two motherboards. It's not like SLI is a mandatory thing. It all depends on if you have 2 full speed 16X PCI-E lanes, and it's up to you if you use the second for a graphics slot, or not. You can still put anything in there.
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post #416 of 947
The latest rumors point to Woodcrest having a real release date - June 19th.

http://techreport.com/onearticle.x/9978
post #417 of 947
With the speed that apple have been changing over to intel, surely they are not going to wait until august to release a woodcrest based system (if thats what they are going to use in the MacPros). If intel are releasing woodcrest 19th june would that not mean companies like Dell, Hp, Apple will have their hands on woodcrest now to test and prepare sytems before the big launch?

By the way the woodcrest looks like good value.
post #418 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
I'm thinking of 3 unique motherboards, or possibly 4.

That seems like a lot to me. I would guess only 2 motherboards (Conroe and Woodcrest).
post #419 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by wmf
That seems like a lot to me. I would guess only 2 motherboards (Conroe and Woodcrest).

As I said. I think they could do it in two. But will they have two Full Speed 16X PCI-E lanes? How hard is that? The first true 2x16X PCI-E machines were from nvidia's Nforce design for the Opteron, and they were using two motherboards in one box to get it. I'm hoping that now there is a more reasonable alternative which could put them in all of them, but I have no info on this.

[edit]

But I do now. The nForce4 SLI X16 chipset is the way to go. Wicked stuff.
It's hard to know if Apple having intel as a partner with the Pro machine motherboard design is going to hurt them, or not. I have a feeling intel wants to be as hands on as possible with their own graphics in this. I think it would be better for us to see them be more for the Mac user, and less for themselves if that were the case. Although they can't complain. Apple gave them the graphics in the MacBook, and Mini. The nForce4 SLI X16 chipset is the ultimate graphics setup available right now.
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post #420 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
As I said. I think they could do it in two. But will they have two Full Speed 16X PCI-E lanes? How hard is that? The first true 2x16X PCI-E machines were from nvidia's Nforce design for the Opteron, and they were using two motherboards in one box to get it. I'm hoping that now there is a more reasonable alternative which could put them in all of them, but I have no info on this.

[edit]

But I do now. The nForce4 SLI X16 chipset is the way to go. Wicked stuff.
It's hard to know if Apple having intel as a partner with the Pro machine motherboard design is going to hurt them, or not. I have a feeling intel wants to be as hands on as possible with their own graphics in this. I think it would be better for us to see them be more for the Mac user, and less for themselves if that were the case. Although they can't complain. Apple gave them the graphics in the MacBook, and Mini. The nForce4 SLI X16 chipset is the ultimate graphics setup available right now.

Obviously they wouldn't go with GMA950 or the like in a Pro machine, but I guess your query is more towards Intel working on a Main Logic Board with a nVidea chipset as opposed to an Intel chipset

Unless they could actually BTO a real choice of graphics cards, and more importantly, 'after the purchase' cards from Apple, at a decent price point for the consumer; then they could include a basic integrated graphics subsystem into every Mac Pro

GMA950 or later is a shoe-in for the MacServe (?) refresh

So, those bastards better make with the SLI on Mac Pros!

And I will bitch about it not being enough, and want an Apple with that new-fangled quad SLI, with the octo dual-core option!

(running a monster 42" 4k ACD with interactive touchscreen capabilities, and feeding a 6U rackmount Apple blade server renderfarm)

;^p
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post #421 of 947
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by jackbauer
The latest rumors point to Woodcrest having a real release date - June 19th.

http://techreport.com/onearticle.x/9978

And yet they're still going to wait for WWDC to release the towers.
post #422 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by Placebo
And yet they're still going to wait for WWDC to release the towers.

'Cause they think that, if it's a secret, people will buy more of them.
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post #423 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
But I do now. The nForce4 SLI X16 chipset is the way to go. Wicked stuff.

Better read the specs again Onlooker. The second 16x PCI-E is hanging on the MCP not the SPP. This is really not what you are looking about.
post #424 of 947
Thread Starter 
I don't give a shit about SLI as long as they have a lineup of market-price GPUs to choose from.
post #425 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by MacRonin
GMA950 or later is a shoe-in for the MacServe (?) refresh…

Nope; server chipsets don't support integrated graphics at all. I would guess an ATI ES100 is more likely.
post #426 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by wmf
Nope; server chipsets don't support integrated graphics at all. I would guess an ATI ES100 is more likely.

Well, they need to do a server chipset that does integrated graphics, because losing half of your expansion capabilities for occasional monitoring is a lousy tradeoff
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post #427 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by MacRonin
Well, they need to do a server chipset that does integrated graphics, because losing half of your expansion capabilities for occasional monitoring is a lousy tradeoff…

In servers they attach the VGA controller to the slow PCI bus (not PCI-X or PCI Express), losing no capabilities.
post #428 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by smalM
Better read the specs again Onlooker. The second 16x PCI-E is hanging on the MCP not the SPP. This is really not what you are looking about.

Are you talking about the AMD version that uses the MCP as the southbridge to connect the nForce4 System Platform Processor (SPP). That is only on the AMD vesion.

The Intel core logic already incorporates a System Platform Processor (SPP) so the MCP included on the current Intel chipsets has its PCI Express lanes disabled; enabling them is all that NVIDIA needs to do.
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post #429 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by wmf
In servers they attach the VGA controller to the slow PCI bus (not PCI-X or PCI Express), losing no capabilities.

But in Xserves there are a total of two (2) expansion slots, and if you want any type of video out, you use a slot, thereby losing half of your expansion capabilities

Because you see, sometimes one might want to have a Fibre Channel card installed for access to a XSAN setup

And one might also wish to have an internal SATA RAID controller installed at the same time running the internal HDDs

I personally would prefer to have the ability to switch from server to server with a KVB box for certain things, as well as using good old Apple Remote Desktop for other tasks

So yeah, integrated graphics would be nice

Digital out as opposed to VGA would be nice also Who says you gotta have a klunky old CRT in the server room? How about a nice 23" ACD as server central control instead?!?

;^p
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post #430 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
Looks like we have a few people anxiously awaiting the Mac Pro arrival. I'm actually hoping it has two -16X full speed PCI-E slots. I'll throw two quadro's in there without thinking twice about it.
If your wondering what you would do with those extra cores. Any type of rendering should see almost double the performance. Most 3D rendering is done from the CPU not the GPU, but with Apples core image, and core video I think some is offloaded to the GPU. (like it needs it). All I really do know is my Mental Ray render times should be pretty impressive. And with two quadro's I should be able to work, and move models, and scenes around with billions of polygons without any fuss. {end of excited rant mode]

Which application are you talking about Onlooker? As far as I know none of the major 3d rendering apps have implemented core graphics yet. Or are you not talking about 3d rendering?

 

 

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post #431 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
Are you talking about the AMD version

Both versions have one x16 PCI-E on the SPP and one on the MCP.
The Intel version has 4 additional x1 PCI-E on the SPP the AMD version has only 2.

I found pictures on anandtech.
post #432 of 947
Intel announced some benchmarks.
post #433 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by emig647
Which application are you talking about Onlooker? As far as I know none of the major 3d rendering apps have implemented core graphics yet. Or are you not talking about 3d rendering?

I was thinking of RenderMan for Maya, and C4D, but I have no idea if they actually use it yet. I am under the possible "illusion" that once Apple has a workstation that runs windows apps along side Mac OS versions that some developers may see just what they can pull off out of one of their Mac stations. Luxology (modo) will probably be the first to leverage all they can from the Mac if C4d, and RenderMan have not started. Hopefully Apple will show 3D, and game developers how to accomplish this task efficiently at WWDC.
Using the GPU as another rendering processor has to be as intriguing to a developer as it is to a user. Todays single core GPU's are still running circles around multi core CPU's. Add in the SLI bridge, and we could see a huge boost in performance for the smaller CG house, individual user, student, and workstation rooted CG artist. It's things like this that will get developers like Softimage (XSI), and Autodesk (3DSMax, and now Maya) to take notice of the possibility that Apple may be making the better platform for the 3D workstation, and they should consider bringing their apps over to the Mac once they take notice of what their competitors have accomplished.
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post #434 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by smalM
Both versions have one x16 PCI-E on the SPP and one on the MCP.
The Intel version has 4 additional x1 PCI-E on the SPP the AMD version has only 2.

I found pictures on anandtech.

So what's the problem with that? And compared to what? What is supposedly going to be faster? Anything?


If anyone is curiously wondering:

MEDIA AND COMMUNICATIONS PROCESSORS (MCP)
SYSTEM PLATFORM PROCESSORS (SPP)

Here is some reading to do if your interested. I don't see why anyone is griping about the MCP though. I don't see anything faster than the Nforce 4 SLI 16X out there.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/chipset...812032457.html

BTW, Notice DELL Is exclusively first on board with the new Nvidia 16X SLI for consumer, and enthusiasts alike.
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post #435 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
I was thinking of RenderMan for Maya, and C4D, but I have no idea if they actually use it yet. I am under the possible "illusion" that once Apple has a workstation that runs windows apps along side Mac OS versions that some developers may see just what they can pull off out of one of their Mac stations. Luxology (modo) will probably be the first to leverage all they can from the Mac if C4d, and RenderMan have not started. Hopefully Apple will show 3D, and game developers how to accomplish this task efficiently at WWDC.
Using the GPU as another rendering processor has to be as intriguing to a developer as it is to a user. Todays single core GPU's are still running circles around multi core CPU's. Add in the SLI bridge, and we could see a huge boost in performance for the smaller CG house, individual user, student, and workstation rooted CG artist. It's things like this that will get developers like Softimage (XSI), and Autodesk (3DSMax, and now Maya) to take notice of the possibility that Apple may be making the better platform for the 3D workstation, and they should consider bringing their apps over to the Mac once they take notice of what their competitors have accomplished.

It is intriguing to developers. I was at wwdc 04 when they first showed off this technology... needless to say... I was floored! Problem that I see is I don't see any correlation between the Core Graphics' library functions and what a 3d modeling program has to offer. Mostly they deal with images and video.

As far as I know, Maxon hasn't implemented any type of CoreGraphics. As far as the rest I'm unsure because I don't use them. But I still fail to see what parts of the library they could use. The CoreGraphics library is fairly high level which means it would take a massive inheritance overhaul to just talk to the gpu and do a simple 'offload to the gpu' type of thing. I'm sure these developers that make these programs could do that in their sleep if they wanted to. Curious as to why they haven't...

 

 

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post #436 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker

BTW, Notice DELL Is exclusively first on board with the new Nvidia 16X SLI for consumer, and enthusiasts alike.

you said dell...... :P. I take it you're talking about pre-built box manufacturers? Those boards have been avail for.... what over a month now?

 

 

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post #437 of 947
I want to go on record and say this.

I for one believe Intel has a strong few years ahead of them. I believe their roadmap is a lot nicer than AMD's. I'm happy that Apple has gone with Intel for processors. As far as i'm concerned the last few years have been a transition period. Think back to the ATI vs NVidia days a few years ago.

ATI was rocking NVidia all over the place. During the 9600xt / 9800xt and a little before that... NVidia sucked... they had the 5200, 5600 and 5900. Nvidia wasn't winning one benchmark. But to me that was a transition period... then NVidia came out swinging with the 6600 and 6800. Since has been in the lead IMO. During this transition period NVidia was building new fabs (like intel) had a better roadmap ahead of them than ATI (like intel) and had strong industry support (like intel).

Mark my words, intel is going to cream amd in the coming years.

 

 

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post #438 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by emig647
you said dell...... :P. I take it you're talking about pre-built box manufacturers? Those boards have been avail for.... what over a month now?

I don't see why repeating what I said is so funny? Please explain?
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post #439 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
I don't see why repeating what I said is so funny? Please explain?

I was laughing at Dell being the first to adopt. Like it was some big thing that dell adopted. It was inevitable that the pre-built manufacturers were going to start adopting. Inside joke I guess. I don't have a lot of respect for dell and the products they release. It seems to me that everyone goes bonkers when dell does something ... 'omfg dell switched to amd' 'omfg dell bought alienware'... We've all had access to Asus's 16x SLI board for a while now. Of course dell was going to start using it. Why wouldn't they?

 

 

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post #440 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by emig647
I was laughing at Dell being the first to adopt. Like it was some big thing that dell adopted. It was inevitable that the pre-built manufacturers were going to start adopting. Inside joke I guess. I don't have a lot of respect for dell and the products they release. It seems to me that everyone goes bonkers when dell does something ... 'omfg dell switched to amd' 'omfg dell bought alienware'... We've all had access to Asus's 16x SLI board for a while now. Of course dell was going to start using it. Why wouldn't they?

The reason I plugged the DELL was because Apple openly uses DELL as their arch nemesis, or rival in prebuilt machines IMHO.

Personally in the workstation marketplace I was a fan (and owner) of the Alienware price, and performance vs. BOXX, but then - you know who - (DELL) noticed what a great thing they had going, and decided to scoop them up. I was a little pissed off about that one, but I think Apple can now become a real force in the workstation marketplace for all things with what they "can possibly" offer that no one else can.

Quote:
Originally posted by emig647
It is intriguing to developers. I was at wwdc 04 when they first showed off this technology... needless to say... I was floored! Problem that I see is I don't see any correlation between the Core Graphics' library functions and what a 3d modeling program has to offer. Mostly they deal with images and video.

Rendering the image is what it's all about isn't it? Obviously the Modeling, animation parts of the application isn't what you would be developing it for.
You would be incorporating it into the render engine. Wouldn't you be using the lib to influence how, and what % CPU, and GPU were extracting your data through Image codec. Maybe a dual Nvidia GPU's under SLI bridge can render an image much faster than a CPU. Doesn't the lib determine what percentages can, or need to be offloaded in other similar situations already?
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