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The Intel Powermac / Powermac Conroe / Mac Pro thread - Page 13

post #481 of 947
I don't see Apple having a gap in the desktop line from the top iMac to a PM at $2500. The low-end Mac Pro won't have better than a quad-2.0, because it has to be priced at no more than $2200. What would you charge for a high-end quad-3.0 GHz Mac Pro? The processors alone cost $1700. I guess they could do it, but it'd look odd to be Quad 2.0/2.33/3.0 or Quad 2.0/2.66/3.0, too large of a gap. If they did 4 evenly spaced models, that could make sense.
post #482 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by emig647
Yes but remember, apple gets HUGE discounts from bulk. So it could still be possible to go 2.66.

I wouldn't count out 2x3ghz either... that'd really stick it to IBM for not delivering, switching to intel directly to 3ghz... steve's like that you know =)

There's also thbe question of what cooling the 3GHz chips will require. If Apple can do away with the water cooling, that will save a lot of money. Possibly enough down the entire line to enable a more expensive chip to be used in each catagory. If so, we just might see dual 3GHxz Woodcrests.
post #483 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
I mean come'on folks. WWDC is a ways away Apple's STILL a company that has earnings to make. You don't hold off announcing a product that's ready to ship for half a quarter because you want to try and make an impact at a tradeshow for Developers nonetheless.

Apple will ship Powermac replacements in June or early July. They can save Xserve and Xserve RAID updates for WWDC.

I've already gone through a long version of this argument with someone here. You're right. It would be foolish for Apple to wait for an event when they can have a machine out and selling as soon as possible.

Apple has become too dependant upon events.
post #484 of 947
The only computers ever announced at WWDC were the XServe and the Power Mac G5. Mac Pros will come in June or July.
post #485 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by ZachPruckowski
I doubt they'll get that much extra off, the article talked about the price cascade for buying in mass already. 2x3ghz is a possibility, but might look weird if you have 3 models with a .66 Ghz jump in there somewhere, because the lowend almost has to 2.0ghz if it sells for $2000. At $850/700/470/330 for 3.0/2.66/2.33/2.0, the 3.0 ghz line seems like a stretch if Apple wants a big margin.

While I'll admit I didn't read the part in the article where it talked about bulk pricing... Bulk prices are usually pretty substantial... I'd be amazed if it wasn't.

 

 

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post #486 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by ZachPruckowski
The only computers ever announced at WWDC were the XServe and the Power Mac G5. Mac Pros will come in June or July.

In 04 the iMac g5's were almost announced but pulled at the last minute. They had them there under cloth... but I agree with you.... Mac Pro will come in june or july... i bet june.

 

 

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post #487 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by emig647
I absolutely agree with you. I believe Apple is intel's biggest client now with dell leaving. If anything apple could be EARLY with these announcements.... much like the macbook pro was with yonah. I believe they were the first yonah computers shipping.

I expect the same to happen with woodcrest.

All the time stuff aside on release dates.

How on earth can you think Apple is intels biggest client? They have less than 4% marketshare, and 2/3 of that are not PowerMac's.
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post #488 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by ZachPruckowski
The only computers ever announced at WWDC were the XServe and the Power Mac G5.

that is incorrect.
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post #489 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by emig647
In 04 the iMac g5's were almost announced but pulled at the last minute. They had them there under cloth... but I agree with you.... Mac Pro will come in june or july... i bet june.

You bet June? Let's see. The first set of processors (Woodcrest) ship out on the 19th of June - that is what intel has on hand to every manufacturer they supply. That shipment is undoubtedly sold out. I'm sure they are ramping up a second run though. Conroe is next at about the same time in July. Merom is again at about the same time in August.

So Apple will get these babies out the door in 10 days from their arrival with only the Woodcrest configuration available, and probably in limited supply? Hmmm... I'm sticking with my guess that it will be a bit later.
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post #490 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
All the time stuff aside on release dates.

How on earth can you think Apple is intels biggest client? They have less than 4% marketshare, and 2/3 of that are not PowerMac's.

They have 4% marketshare, but they're 4th overall, behind Dell and 2 other beige box companies (HP and Gateway?). Whoever claimed that likely meant that with Dell going to some Opterons (and owning Alienware), Apple is the largest company that only buys intel chips (once the Mac Pros and XServe are out and the eMac's fate decided), since most other companies buy some Intel and some AMD. As the only Intel-only company, Apple could theoretically get some perks. So the original guy mispoke his point.

What other computers (I forgot iSight) came out (not got a bump) at WWDC?
post #491 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
...That shipment is undoubtedly sold out. I'm sure they are ramping up a second run though...

So Apple will get these babies out the door in 10 days from their arrival with only the Woodcrest configuration available, and probably in limited supply? Hmmm... I'm sticking with my guess that it will be a bit later.

If Apple goes all Woodcrest (which they pretty much have to, they can't sell a 2.67 GHz Conroe for $2000 when Dell has that for $1200-$1400), then they can intro the whole line all at once in June.

Additionally, Apple may have a piece of the June 25th order (June 19 is apparently just the launch day, the chips ship June 25). If they have the Mac Pros all ready except the chips, they could get the chips, stick them in, image the drives, and be ready pretty darn quick. Not to mention, Apple could announce them, and say "Shipping early July", then trickle them out slowly until the second wave of chips hits.

Late June announcement is doable.
post #492 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by ZachPruckowski
They have 4% marketshare, but they're 4th overall, behind Dell and 2 other beige box companies (HP and Gateway?).

Lenovo is number 3 for computer manufacturers, not gateway.
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post #493 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by Telomar
Lenovo is number 3 for computer manufacturers, not gateway.

My bad. My point is (or was) that even at 4%, Apple is still a top 5 computer company, and since Dell, HP, and Lenovo aren't exclusively Intel, Apple is (or will be, once the lines are switched over) the largest computer company that exclusively buys from Intel, meaning they can get favoritism. How much, I don't know. It's an Intel ploy to get Dell or Lenovo to come back to being fully Intel-ized, and keep Apple on Intel's bandwagon.
post #494 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
There's also thbe question of what cooling the 3GHz chips will require. If Apple can do away with the water cooling, that will save a lot of money. Possibly enough down the entire line to enable a more expensive chip to be used in each catagory. If so, we just might see dual 3GHxz Woodcrests.

Last bit of news I heard was that Intel got Woodcrest down to a TDP of 65 watts...if these things require water cooling, then I'm making plastics right now (I'm not...I'm really not.)
post #495 of 947
Processors shouldn't need water cooling. We shouldn't have to see that again.
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post #496 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by ZachPruckowski
They have 4% marketshare, but they're 4th overall, behind Dell and 2 other beige box companies (HP and Gateway?). Whoever claimed that likely meant that with Dell going to some Opterons (and owning Alienware), Apple is the largest company that only buys intel chips (once the Mac Pros and XServe are out and the eMac's fate decided), since most other companies buy some Intel and some AMD. As the only Intel-only company, Apple could theoretically get some perks. So the original guy mispoke his point.

What other computers (I forgot iSight) came out (not got a bump) at WWDC?

Quote:
The Following is By Robert L. Mitchell. @ Computerworld.

"An IDC report on desktop PC vendor market share shows Lenovo stabilizing and while Dell remains firmly entrenched as the market leader. IDC's report for the 3rd quarter of 2005 (the latest available) shows Lenovo's numbers finally catching back up to where they were before it purchased its PC business from IBM, according to analyst Richard Shim. Here's the market share breakout:?

Dell: 34.5%
HP: 20.5
Gateway: 7.1
Lenovo: 3.2
Apple: 3.1"

While the numbers show Dell holding steady over the same quarter in 2004, HP lost roughly one point of market share over the same period. The biggest winner: Apple, which gained nearly a full percentage point in market share after reporting a 43% increase in unit shipments. "

You want to try that math again? Even if HP only used intel on 50% of their computers they would beat Apple by 3x ++
Gateway uses all intel processors, and they more than double Apple's percentage too.


BTW, PowerBooks have been announced at WWDC. I think the 30" display was too, but I'm not totally sure about that.
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post #497 of 947
My point isn't raw numbers, it's that Intel wants to give huge advantages to companies that are Intel-only. Dell is like 90% Intel, but Intel wants to be 100% of Dell sales. So I think any perks will be based on the fact that Apple has what some claim is a totally exclusive multi-year contract for its x86 chips.

Also, I found what claims to be a Gateway AMD laptop. It may or may not be accurate, but that's what I based my "Gateway's not pure AMD" claim on. http://reviews.cnet.com/Gateway_MX75...?tag=pdtl-list

Anyways, I apologize for sort of dragging this thread off topic. To try to get back on topic, I'd like to say that Intel expects something like 3/4 of all chips it produces and ships to be dual-core (Pentium D, Yonah, Merom, Conroe, Woodcrest, Sossaman, Xeon) (http://www.informationweek.com/story...cleID=60404409). My point is that by year's end, dual core will not be so much of a leg to stand on, even 2.5-3.0 GHz range. Therefore, the whole line will have to be quad-core if it's gonna be "remarkable" or even brag-worthy. A $2000 quad-core (dual-dual) machine will turn heads, period.
post #498 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by ZachPruckowski
My point isn't raw numbers, it's that Intel wants to give huge advantages to companies that are Intel-only. Dell is like 90% Intel, but Intel wants to be 100% of Dell sales. So I think any perks will be based on the fact that Apple has what some claim is a totally exclusive multi-year contract for its x86 chips.

Also, I found what claims to be a Gateway AMD laptop. It may or may not be accurate, but that's what I based my "Gateway's not pure AMD" claim on. http://reviews.cnet.com/Gateway_MX75...?tag=pdtl-list
.

You mean gateway being Pure Intel right?

I'm not sure but I thought I read that DELL is going to be 100% AMD now. I could be mistaken about that.


The gateway laptop on the other hand is real, but it's not in their current lineup. As far as I can tell their entire desktop, server, and laptop series' are all intel now.

But as you said about loosing the thread. Yes everything will have dual core processors soon, but that doesn't mean stop, and wait for four. Processors are on a major climb, quad core single socket and dual socket processors are due from intel in early 2007. Updates happen. That's just evolutionary growth.
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post #499 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
I'm not sure but I thought I read that DELL is going to be 100% AMD now. I could be mistaken about that.

No. Dell will use Opterons in some multi-processor high end servers. No plans for AMD on desktop or notebooks so far. I saw an interview of Dell's CEO on CNBC the day this news was announced and it was interesting how despite the interviewer's focus on the introduction of AMD chips to Dell's sever product line, he(Dell CEO) went out of his way to mention how 'excited' he was about Intel's 'new' Merom, Conroe and Woodcrest chips. Link below

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=2428

Edit: Conroe due out July 23.

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=2531
post #500 of 947
So now we have 2 dates.

June 19th Woodcrest ships out.

And Conroe due out July 23rd.

Merom August .... What date?
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post #501 of 947
Looks like a fresh batch of Apples coming close to harvest folks!
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post #502 of 947
This is so much more fun then IBM/FreeScale.
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post #503 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by kim kap sol
Last bit of news I heard was that Intel got Woodcrest down to a TDP of 65 watts...if these things require water cooling, then I'm making plastics right now (I'm not...I'm really not.)

The G5's didn't have a TDP of 65 watts, but their average power was that high. I'm hoping that the Woodcrest won't need it. Actually, I don't think it will. I'm not even sure that the G5's did either. I've always felt that the water cooling was in anticipation of much faster cpu'd from IBM that would need it. After all Prescotts used much more power than the G5's did, and they were rarely water cooled.

So, I'm thinking that Apple can save that money, and put it into the cpu instead.

Mabe you're not making plastics, but I just now stopped making some myself.
post #504 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
You mean gateway being Pure Intel right?

I'm not sure but I thought I read that DELL is going to be 100% AMD now. I could be mistaken about that.


The gateway laptop on the other hand is real, but it's not in their current lineup. As far as I can tell their entire desktop, server, and laptop series' are all intel now.

But as you said about loosing the thread. Yes everything will have dual core processors soon, but that doesn't mean stop, and wait for four. Processors are on a major climb, quad core single socket and dual socket processors are due from intel in early 2007. Updates happen. That's just evolutionary growth.

I'm not sure actual marketshare is in Intels mind all the time when it comes to giving out new products. I believe that the iMac Intel version was the one of the first, if not THE first mass market machine to use the Yonah.

Perhaps Apple paid a few percent more to Intel for that privilage, I don't know, but I do remember there were complaints about it.
post #505 of 947
I'm pretty sure there were other computers using the same processor the day it was released. I remember people trying to compare them to the Mac right off the bat. Most of them were trying to say the Mac was comparatively expensive, but the Mac-Minded started bringing in #'s all over the web, and they shut that door real quick.
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post #506 of 947
Presuming that the Mac Pro will be released in late June or July, what venue will Apple use to announce them? I am sure that they won't be silently announced like the MacBook.
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post #507 of 947
So after doing some reading, I have to agree with those of you who think that the Power Mac (Mac Pro) will come in late-June/July. So while we all know that Leopard is going to be big and 85% or more of the WWDC keynote, it is possible that Apple may use the One More Thing to announce completely redesigned pro notebooks with Core 2 Duo processors (Meroms). I think that will the hardware announced at WWDC.
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post #508 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by DHagan4755
Presuming that the Mac Pro will be released in late June or July, what venue will Apple use to announce them? I am sure that they won't be silently announced like the MacBook.

Macworld Expo Boston 2006,
were else









Indeed, I don't believe Apple will sit on it for 2 months.
Maybe a special event.
Quote:
Originally posted by DHagan4755
So after doing some reading, I have to agree with those of you who think that the Power Mac (Mac Pro) will come in late-June/July. So while we all know that Leopard is going to be big and 85% or more of the WWDC keynote, it is possible that Apple may use the One More Thing to announce completely redesigned pro notebooks with Core 2 Duo processors (Meroms). I think that will the hardware announced at WWDC.

Would be nice to have a new notebook in september
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post #509 of 947
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by theapplegenius
This is so much more fun then IBM/FreeScale.

Are you kidding? The community practically wet themselves when the G5 specs got slipped early.
post #510 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
I'm pretty sure there were other computers using the same processor the day it was released. I remember people trying to compare them to the Mac right off the bat. Most of them were trying to say the Mac was comparatively expensive, but the Mac-Minded started bringing in #'s all over the web, and they shut that door real quick.

I think the issue isn't that Apple got all the chips, but it got an unfair share, and it got some of the first, which meant MBPs were out a few days earlier than the Dell/HP equivalents. However, most of the PCs were announced or demoed at CES (Consumer Electronics Show) in Vegas the week before MWSF, so there were prices and stats to compare against.
post #511 of 947
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by emig647
In 04 the iMac g5's were almost announced but pulled at the last minute. They had them there under cloth...

Can you back this claim up?
post #512 of 947
I noticed that apple have redesigned their pro site. I wonder is this in preparation for a MacPro release soon (June), or am I just anticipating a bit too much?

http://www.apple.com/pro/
post #513 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by amack
I noticed that apple have redesigned their pro site. I wonder is this in preparation for a MacPro release soon (June), or am I just anticipating a bit too much?

http://www.apple.com/pro/

I didn't look it over too hard, but I didn't see much there about the MBP. Therefore, I'd guess it's mostly about the Pro software, and Apple's attempts to sell more of it. They may be feeling nervous about Adobe, wanting to capitalize on the delay between the Mac Pro release and the Adobe UB release, and they might be shoring up their exit strategy if Adobe abandons the Mac platform (long-shot).
post #514 of 947
WWDC could be the debut.
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post #515 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by Xool
WWDC could be the debut.

This is the safe bet. WWDC at the latest, but I think it's more probable that it will be at WWDC.
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post #516 of 947
Well...something hardware is getting announced at the WWDC. Whether it's the Mac Pro or the MacBook Pro.
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post #517 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by DHagan4755
Well...something hardware is getting announced at the WWDC. Whether it's the Mac Pro or the MacBook Pro.

Core2 Duo MacBook Pro pretty please
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post #518 of 947
It has been said that Apple didn't release an "all new design" for their products in order to prove that Macs are the same machine regardless of the processor (establish credibility using Intel) and to also provide a gentle transition for its customers.

But there are several major problems with the MacBook Pro aside from the whining noise it makes. Here are 10 Reasons why there will be a major MacBook Pro Re-Design (in no specific order)....

Case design has poor heat dissipation, therefore MBP's run hot; a lot of customers don't like the enclosure being used as the heat sink
Inability to fit dual-layer 8x DVD burner into 15-inch model
Inability to place a Firewire 800 port on main logic board of 15-inch model
Maximum screen opening even more limited by hinge design
Aluminum enclosure difficult to disassemble; hard to replace hard drive, main logic board
Aluminum enclosure is making it tough for Apple to use brighter backlights and provide more even illumination of backlight for display
Display viewing angle very limited compared to competition
No improvement in weight; Apple will want to not only make these laptops thinner, but lighter
Apple will want to incorporate magnetic latch from iBook
I believe Apple wants to incorporate black into its pro product line, and it's not possible to anodize aluminum in black, or advisable to paint aluminum black.

If we are supposing that Apple will use Intel's Woodcrest (shipping June 26th) for the Mac Pro, it would make sense for Apple to announce the Mac Pro in early July.

Additionally with the release of Conroe late in July, those will probably go into the iMacs which are arguably Apple's best computer at the moment, and by that time overdue for a refresh.

So unlike previous Intel releases to date, I don't think Apple will use a reworking of its Power Mac G5 for its new Mac Pro tower. I believe that the Mac Pro will mark the start of a new design direction that Apple has for its pro line.

Therefore, when Merom ships in August, it would make sense for Apple to announce a major redesign to its MacBook Pro at WWDC, reflecting the new pro design direction as well. And given all that's going on and the ten reasons above, it just makes sense.
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post #519 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by DHagan4755
It has been said that Apple didn't release an "all new design" for their products in order to prove that Macs are the same machine regardless of the processor (establish credibility using Intel) and to also provide a gentle transition for its customers.

But there are several major problems with the MacBook Pro aside from the whining noise it makes. Here are 10 Reasons why there will be a major MacBook Pro Re-Design (in no specific order)....

-SNIP-

I believe Apple wants to incorporate black into its pro product line, and it's not possible to anodize aluminum in black, or advisable to paint aluminum black.

-SNIP-

I have cookware that is anodized aluminum, in fact most highend cookware is anodized aluminum, as well as SS. You are correct that the color spectrum available via anodizing aluminum is limited, but black is one possible color. Infact the folks at Calphalon and Circulon say this: " The pans' hard-anodized aluminum construction is twice as strong as steel and offers perfect heat distribution with no hot spots." which may be a reason for Apple to work black into the product colors. By the way the pans color is black, and apparently the anodizing helps remove hot spots and improves strength.
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post #520 of 947
Aluminum can most definitely be anodized black as well as almost any other color except white. Its expensive though.
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