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The Intel Powermac / Powermac Conroe / Mac Pro thread - Page 17

post #641 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by emig647
I thought core 2 Extreme was woodcrest

Well perhaps I'm wrong but I thought Woodcrest was being called Xeon 5100 series. I'm under the impression that the extreme edition stuff is conroe, like the extreme edition Pent Ds. Maybe someone else can clear this up.
post #642 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by backtomac
Well perhaps I'm wrong but I thought Woodcrest was being called Xeon 5100 series. I'm under the impression that the extreme edition stuff is conroe, like the extreme edition Pent Ds. Maybe someone else can clear this up.

There will also be a Conroe Extreme. Conroe is now being called Core 2 Duo. See article:

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets...oc.aspx?i=2771

EDIT:

I forgot to mention, check out the tests, very gratifying1
post #643 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by backtomac
I may be misunderstanding your arguement. I envision Conroe as a prosumer level processor. IE in the iMac and perhaps an entry level workstation only. That may be stretching it a bit as even Apple's entry level workstation still fetches $1999. The more I think about it and see the performance numbers, MacPros really ought to be powered by Woodcrest.

There was a $1400 single 1.8Ghz power mac for a while. A single conroe power mac could replace it if Apple deemed it worthwhile at that price point. So yes, I'd say that was an entry level workstation. Price wise the 1.8 Ghz G5 power mac was about the same as the 17" iMac G5 of the period.

Folks want a expandable headless mac for less than $2K. Eh, conroe would fit that bill. Still wouldn't compare well against a Dell but I'd buy it over an iMac because I have a 19" display already.

Vinea
post #644 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by backtomac
Well perhaps I'm wrong but I thought Woodcrest was being called Xeon 5100 series. I'm under the impression that the extreme edition stuff is conroe, like the extreme edition Pent Ds. Maybe someone else can clear this up.


Conroe is Core 2 Extreme.
Woodcrest is Xeon 5100 series.
The Xeon 5160 is the 3GHz version, which is what I expect to see two of in the highend model.
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post #645 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
Conroe is Core 2 Extreme.
Woodcrest is Xeon 5100 series.
The Xeon 5160 is the 3GHz version, which is what I expect to see two of in the highend model.

I would love that. It would be really hot.

Look at these server test comparasons. A fairly long article, but very telling.

http://www.anandtech.com/IT/showdoc.aspx?i=2772&p=1
post #646 of 947
Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 (2.40GHz/4M) $316
Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 (2.13GHz/2M) $224

nice, nice if in iMac

BTO,
Intel Core 2 Extreme X6800 (2.93GHz/4M) $999
Intel Core 2 Duo E6700 (2.67GHz/4M) $530

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipset...?i=2771&p=6

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post #647 of 947
Merom is Core 2 Solo/Duo.
Conroe is Core 2 Duo/Extreme.
Woodcrest is Xeon.

AppleInsider had an article a while ago where they falsely stated that Core 2 Duo was Conroe, whereas Core 2 Extreme was Woodcrest.
post #648 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by Chucker
Merom is Core 2 Solo/Duo.
Conroe is Core 2 Duo/Extreme.
Woodcrest is Xeon.

AppleInsider had an article a while ago where they falsely stated that Core 2 Duo was Conroe, whereas Core 2 Extreme was Woodcrest.

Must have been where I got that.

 

 

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post #649 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by Chucker
Merom is Core 2 Solo/Duo.
Conroe is Core 2 Duo/Extreme.
Woodcrest is Xeon.

AppleInsider had an article a while ago where they falsely stated that Core 2 Duo was Conroe, whereas Core 2 Extreme was Woodcrest.

The article I posted that just came out also states that Conroe is Core 2 Duo, AND for the Extreme version, Core 2 Extreme.

A quote:

"A few months have passed since our original foray into the world of Conroe, and official naming has been announced for the processor. What we've been calling Conroe is now known as Core 2 Duo, with the Extreme Edition being called Core 2 Extreme. Initial availability of the Core 2 Duo and Core 2 Extreme processors remains unchanged from Intel's original estimates of "early Q3". "
post #650 of 947
This is why I think putting "Conroe" Core 2 Duo into a Mac Pro, except at possibly the lowest level, will be a very bad idea (though that doesn't mean that Apple will agree!).

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...1973939,00.asp

How can an MP compete with a sub-$1,000 system with the same chip, even if it's at a slightly lower speed?
post #651 of 947
Laptop makers are also planning to put Conroe in laptops.

I'm sure that would rule out Apple putting them in Mac Pro and selling them as workstations.
post #652 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
This is why I think putting "Conroe" Core 2 Duo into a Mac Pro, except at possibly the lowest level, will be a very bad idea (though that doesn't mean that Apple will agree!).

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...1973939,00.asp

How can an MP compete with a sub-$1,000 system with the same chip, even if it's at a slightly lower speed?

Good point...and if Apple did go with Conroe on the low end, they'd have to pull the price down to what it was a few years ago...1599$-1699$...at the most.

I'm convinced Apple gets such good deals on Intel chips that there would be no reason to have quads across the lineup starting at 1999$ starting with the 5148T 2.3GHz Woodcrests...or at the very least the 5130 2GHz...

...at $315/1000 the 5130 would cost Apple at most $630 (let's pretend like Apple doesn't get massive savings from ordering a crapload of Intel processors), let's say everything else is $900. That's $1530...giving Apple a respectable margin.

The 5148T would cost at most $1040. Let's pretend everything else is $900. That's $1940...ok, so there isn't much margin but like I said, does Apple really pay full price for Intel's chips and other various components? No...I'm certain we can shave $300 off my very pessimistic, worst-case, cost estimates.

If we don't see quad 2.3 on the low end for $1999, I'll eat my acrylic wool and polyester hat. This ain't an edible hat.

Apple is probably going to be one of Intel's biggest (if not the biggest) Xeon client. Apple will be getting a good deal. They'll be moving over 500k dual-core Xeons chips per semester.

edit: changed my estimate from 600k to 500k...
post #653 of 947
kim - how is it possible you have nearly half a million posts racked up?
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post #654 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by Northgate
kim - how is it possible you have nearly half a million posts racked up?

I post a lot.

You're only 7 posts behind me.
post #655 of 947
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=a9bSLIkNBj4M

Price cuts arriving at late ...23rd July in alignment with introduction of Conroe ...

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post #656 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by Northgate
kim - how is it possible you have nearly half a million posts racked up?

Yeah, what a mystery!!

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post #657 of 947
IMHO, Mac Pro is ready by this time ...

now, intel is happy to announce their CPU launch through APPLE, it will create more marketing $ and hype

my guess both parties enjoy this ... atleast for a while

(if my memory serves correctly, Yonah CPU (exact) details not avaialbe until MacBook Pro was announced by APPLE, pls correct me if i am wrong in this)

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post #658 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by shanmugam
(if my memory serves correctly, Yonah CPU (exact) details not avaialbe until MacBook Pro was announced by APPLE, pls correct me if i am wrong in this)

That's how i understand it as well...

 

 

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post #659 of 947
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Northgate
kim - how is it possible you have nearly half a million posts racked up?

Wow, you're a sucker.
post #660 of 947
Again (for the 3rd time in this thread)
- The Mac Pro Will use Woodcrest and the Blackford workstation Intel Chipset.
- At least 2 models will be Quad, if not all.
- Apple will announce them sometime this month (June) shipping July. WWDC is TOO LATE, Dell and HP will be all over Woodcrest for DP workstations, Apple will not want to fall behind.
- THey may put Conroe (Core 2 Duo) into some new form factor, maybe at WWDC.
Idiot, slow down....

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post #661 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by Placebo
Wow, you're a sucker.

I don't get it.
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post #662 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by Thereubster
Again (for the 3rd time in this thread)
- The Mac Pro Will use Woodcrest and the Blackford workstation Intel Chipset.
- At least 2 models will be Quad, if not all.
- Apple will announce them sometime this month (June) shipping July. WWDC is TOO LATE, Dell and HP will be all over Woodcrest for DP workstations, Apple will not want to fall behind.
- THey may put Conroe (Core 2 Duo) into some new form factor, maybe at WWDC.

Thanks Mister Clairvoyant. Now, please give the naïve time-wasting unbelieving people here, which make up a majority of, oh, 95%?, a chance to actually discuss.
post #663 of 947
My ball of wisdom predicts a demo will show that Adobe CS2 in rosetta on a Mac Pro will be as fast as on a current G5!
That would be a surefire way to sell towers for the next year while adobe gets their shit together.
post #664 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by Northgate
I don't get it.

He has posts listed where they normally are (above location), and that's the real number. The huge half million number is fake, and part of his "location" field or a title or something.
post #665 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by Thereubster
Again (for the 3rd time in this thread)
- The Mac Pro Will use Woodcrest and the Blackford workstation Intel Chipset.
- At least 2 models will be Quad, if not all.
- Apple will announce them sometime this month (June) shipping July. WWDC is TOO LATE, Dell and HP will be all over Woodcrest for DP workstations, Apple will not want to fall behind.
- THey may put Conroe (Core 2 Duo) into some new form factor, maybe at WWDC.

IMO What Apple does is Apples choice, and the chances of them worrying about falling behind seem minimal. If you actually think that a few weeks is considered falling, or even being behind so be it, but If a company is going to jump all over the first computer using woodcrest just because it is the first woodcrest computer Apple is going to fall behind regardless.
Apple is not only about to make a presentation and give a glimpse as to how their new pro, and server lineup will look in the future with their new operating system, but they are probably going to show how it's all going to look to someone trying to integrate Mac's, and the Mac OS into a windows dominated company. If your company is not interested in that they probably are not even planning on seeing what Apple has to offer, but I sure would be curious. There is not a company worth a grain of salt that is going to start buying until they have a look at all their options, and if they think Apple could now be one of those options they already know, and they planning to wait for WWDC. So unless I'm missing something I think your "the sky is falling" "the sky is falling" routine is half baked, and totally pointless.
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post #666 of 947
Intel has SPEC scores for a 3.0Ghz Woodcrest system:

http://www.intel.com/performance/wor...eon/intspd.htm

INT/FP: 3057/2775

(Apple reported 800/840 for the 2Ghz G5 )
post #667 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by whoami
My ball of wisdom predicts a demo will show that Adobe CS2 in rosetta on a Mac Pro will be as fast as on a current G5!
That would be a surefire way to sell towers for the next year while adobe gets their shit together.

Now that would slap IBM right in the face. Dual 3GHz dual core Woodcrests kicking all beat hell out of a Quad G5. I say do it!
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post #668 of 947
Dual 3GHz dual-core Woodcrest CPUs with a nVidia QuadroFX 4500 X2 driving four (4) 30" ACDs...

Max. RAM & max. HDDs...

That's what I'm talking about...

;^p
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post #669 of 947
My bets for the Mac Pro:

-Two dual-core Intel Xeon 5100 (Woodcrest) processors across the line
-Quad SLI
-Up to 64 GB of quad channel DDR2 RAM and 2 TB of storage
-Updated case design (black anodized aluminum, slightly taller, new thermal technology, no water cooling)
-Up to 5x faster than Power Mac G5 Quad
-Announcement in June; shipping in July as WWDC would be reserved for Leopard and a new midlevel Mac
post #670 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by iNtel iNside

-Updated case design (black anodized aluminum, slightly taller, new thermal technology, no water cooling)

Thing is, if they did water cooling and moderate OC they'd have a speed advantage over pretty much everyone but Alienware...

If they could use the Intel honeymoon period to cherry pick CPUs they'd have decent reliability.

Vinea
post #671 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by iNtel iNside
My bets for the Mac Pro:

-Two dual-core Intel Xeon 5100 (Woodcrest) processors across the line
-Quad SLI
-Up to 64 GB of quad channel DDR2 RAM and 2 TB of storage
-Updated case design (black anodized aluminum, slightly taller, new thermal technology, no water cooling)
-Up to 5x faster than Power Mac G5 Quad
-Announcement in June; shipping in July as WWDC would be reserved for Leopard and a new midlevel Mac

My bets:
-2 dual core Xeon 5100s, at 2.0, 2.33, 3.0 GHz
-Shipping with a 7800 or (maybe) a 7900 GT, BTO for 7900 GTO and 7950 whatever
-Bluetooth and Wireless standard (a/b/g)
-SLI support, maybe Quad SLI
-Up to 32 GB RAM (8 x 4 GB FB-DIMMs)
-Starting with a 300 GB HDD, but room for 2-3 more inside
-Prices stay the same

The 2.0 will ship with a smaller HD and lesser video card than the 2.33. It's a big leap for the lower two models because they stay the same clockspeeds (relatively), but add a processor, and the big guy adds .5 GHz.

Apple can't put a Conroe in the low-end competitively, it'd be about $500 more than the competing Dell gaming station. Unless they intro a Mac (non-Pro), but that's another thread. The only Conroe that wouldn't be a joke in the low-end is the 2.67 one, which is only slightly cheaper than dual Woodcrests. Additionally, with all Quads, Apple could easily manage inventory by being able to just drop processors and video cards into their machines instead of having 2-3 different mobos to manage.
post #672 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by ZachPruckowski
My bets:
-2 dual core Xeon 5100s, at 2.0, 2.33, 3.0 GHz
-Shipping with a 7800 or (maybe) a 7900 GT, BTO for 7900 GTO and 7950 whatever
-Bluetooth and Wireless standard (a/b/g)
-SLI support, maybe Quad SLI
-Up to 32 GB RAM (8 x 4 GB FB-DIMMs)
-Starting with a 300 GB HDD, but room for 2-3 more inside
-Prices stay the same

The 2.0 will ship with a smaller HD and lesser video card than the 2.33. It's a big leap for the lower two models because they stay the same clockspeeds (relatively), but add a processor, and the big guy adds .5 GHz.

Apple can't put a Conroe in the low-end competitively, it'd be about $500 more than the competing Dell gaming station. Unless they intro a Mac (non-Pro), but that's another thread. The only Conroe that wouldn't be a joke in the low-end is the 2.67 one, which is only slightly cheaper than dual Woodcrests. Additionally, with all Quads, Apple could easily manage inventory by being able to just drop processors and video cards into their machines instead of having 2-3 different mobos to manage.

I'll play. I would just modify yours to add a NVIDIA Quadro FX 5500 as a video card option, and say probably not on the Quad SLI. But but two full speed 16X PCI-E lanes, yes. Oh, and the 3GHz Woddcrest is the 5160 not the 5100.
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post #673 of 947
I'm less familar with the Quadro series video cards. And when I said 5100s, I meant the family, not the specific processor.

In terms of Quad SLI, I think Apple wants to support graphics users here, and SLI is huge now. If Apple wants to say "We're the top-quality computer builder", they need to embrace stuff that is here, but not big yet, like Quad SLI or quad-core. They're doing that with EFI and Firewire 800 already.
post #674 of 947
I think SLI is a hoax quite honestly. It's great if you want to run your games with Anti-Aliasing but if someone is running a production application they don't necessarily need SLI but rather certified drivers that perform and are stable.

Anytime you design a solution you have to weight the components from a holistic view. Does it make sense to add 300 watts of graphics power which will require more cooling work? Will your productivity really increase?

Apple hasn't always kept up with the Jones' but at the same time they seem more adept at avoiding the hype that emanates from PC land where Bigger is always better.

I'd like to see a low end Conre Mac Pro followed by two to three upper Woodcrest based systems. One PCIe 16x slot is find because I can do SLI in a slot if I really need it.

Give me at least another drive bay and internal RAID options and I think we'd have a winner here. Oh yean I'd like to see Apple double or even triple the amount of Firewire bus. External stuff is hot right now in audio.
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post #675 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
I think SLI is a hoax quite honestly. It's great if you want to run your games with Anti-Aliasing but if someone is running a production application they don't necessarily need SLI but rather certified drivers that perform and are stable.

Anytime you design a solution you have to weight the components from a holistic view. Does it make sense to add 300 watts of graphics power which will require more cooling work? Will your productivity really increase?

Apple hasn't always kept up with the Jones' but at the same time they seem more adept at avoiding the hype that emanates from PC land where Bigger is always better.

I'd like to see a low end Conre Mac Pro followed by two to three upper Woodcrest based systems. One PCIe 16x slot is find because I can do SLI in a slot if I really need it.

Give me at least another drive bay and internal RAID options and I think we'd have a winner here. Oh yean I'd like to see Apple double or even triple the amount of Firewire bus. External stuff is hot right now in audio.

Years ago, when there were more high end GPU manufacturers, there were solutions that had two and even four GPU's on a board. Of course, they didn't use much power in those days, and so didn't get hot, but it was fantastic at the time.

I'd rather see two GPU's on one double slot board now, than two double slot boards in SLI or Crossfire.

And those four board SLI's are a real joke.
post #676 of 947
I'm in for just two full speed 16x PCI-E lanes. Which can give you regular SLI. That way you can have it if you want it. SLI on one card is a joke though. It's not the same because you cant use it in 3D. It gives you limited memory as well. Two 16X PCI-E lanes would give those who want it on one card or two the option of having it. It's the best of both worlds, and then 3D users could bennifit as well.
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post #677 of 947
You know, I was looking at dual-core, dual-processor workstations, and I'm having a hard time pricing a DIY model at under $2500. If Apple does a Quad in $2k or so, which it can financially with a Woodcrest-based system and their bulk discounts, then it'll look pretty darn impressive for any company.
post #678 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by ZachPruckowski
You know, I was looking at dual-core, dual-processor workstations, and I'm having a hard time pricing a DIY model at under $2500. If Apple does a Quad in $2k or so, which it can financially with a Woodcrest-based system and their bulk discounts, then it'll look pretty darn impressive for any company.

I just configured a dual dual-core Xeon Dell 490 Precision Workstation for little over $2000. It includes 2 3.2 GHz Dempsey Xeons, 1Gb memory, nVidia Quadro NVS 285 (2DVIs), 16X DVD+/-RW, 250GB SATA hard drive and Windows XP Pro. You should be able to configure 2 Woodcrest 5130s (2GHz, $315 each) or 5140s (2.33GHz) for similar price after the 26th.

Apple current low end PowerMac is priced at $1999 with 512Mb RAM, 160Gb drive, and NVIDIA GeForce 6600 LE but with only 2 cores. I am really hoping that Apple will be able to offer a machine similar in hardware specs to Dell's (with 2 5130s) for about $2199.

I need/want the machine for Java Programming. Since Apple support for Java always lags behind Solaris, Linux, and Windows (no JSE 1.6 betas yet on Apple), I may be forced to buy a Dell with Linux instead. I have plenty of Macs though including a dual 2.5G5 PowerMac, 2 XServers, and a Intel Mini and a MBP to keep me happy ....
post #679 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by mwswami
I just configured a dual dual-core Xeon Dell 490 Precision Workstation for little over $2000. It includes 2 3.2 GHz Dempsey Xeons, 1Gb memory, nVidia Quadro NVS 285 (2DVIs), 16X DVD+/-RW, 250GB SATA hard drive and Windows XP Pro. You should be able to configure 2 Woodcrest 5130s (2GHz, $315 each) or 5140s (2.33GHz) for similar price after the 26th.

Apple current low end PowerMac is priced at $1999 with 512Mb RAM, 160Gb drive, and NVIDIA GeForce 6600 LE but with only 2 cores. I am really hoping that Apple will be able to offer a machine similar in hardware specs to Dell's (with 2 5130s) for about $2199.

I need/want the machine for Java Programming. Since Apple support for Java always lags behind Solaris, Linux, and Windows (no JSE 1.6 betas yet on Apple), I may be forced to buy a Dell with Linux instead. I have plenty of Macs though including a dual 2.5G5 PowerMac, 2 XServers, and a Intel Mini and a MBP to keep me happy ....

I have friends who program Java on a 12" Powerbook.
post #680 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
I have friends who program Java on a 12" Powerbook.

I do server level programming so I usually need/want multiple CPU machines to test with high levels of concurrency so the Powerbook is not an ideal platform. I have used my MBP for short durations when I travel .... it's quite adequate but it sometime has heating issues.

Apple has good support for Java but it usually takes them a long time to provide the latest releases and sometime these releases are tied to the OS releases which can be a lot of time to wait.

Curremtly, Apple supports JSE 5 but I want to move over to JSE 6 because it has several new APIs. JSE 6 betas have been available for some time now for the other platforms (in fact, you can get weekly builds) but I don't expect to see Apple supporting JSE 6 for several months. I may even be waiting till Leopard.
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