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The Intel Powermac / Powermac Conroe / Mac Pro thread - Page 21

post #801 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by DHagan4755
So Woodcrest comes out tomorrow and Apple's going to wait to use it until August 7?

I hope not. If they do wait till the WWDC, I expect to see XServes with Woodcrests sooner, maybe as early as tomorrow.
post #802 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by DHagan4755
So Woodcrest comes out tomorrow and Apple's going to wait to use it until August 7?

I'm just hoping that they will be using it. They can't avoid it if they want to have a two socket machine, as Conroe doesn't support SMP.

But, if the lower machines in the series will use Conroe, perhaps they will wait until Conroe comes out late July so as to intro both at once.

I don't like the idea of them holding back like that, but Jobs likes to make a big splash himself, and the dev conv is just two weeks after Conroe comes out, so who knows?
post #803 of 947
In that case, these Mac Pro should be shipping immediately. No waiting months for systems like everyone had to with the G5 chips.
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post #804 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by DHagan4755
In that case, these Mac Pro should be shipping immediately. No waiting months for systems like everyone had to with the G5 chips.

As long as the machines are ready and waiting for them, there shouldn't be a problem.

I believe that the official intro of the chips is a fomality. The manufacturers should have already been given their initial supplies. It's the retail channel that has to wait for the intro.
post #805 of 947
Tomorrow you'll be able to order a 1U server with Hot Swap drive bays and a Woodcrest CPU for under $2k.

That's not including the second proc but when compared to towers rackmount servers command a premium. I'm fully convinced that Apple can offer Woodcrest in a $2000 Mac Pro.
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post #806 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by DHagan4755
So Woodcrest comes out tomorrow and Apple's going to wait to use it until August 7?

"Woodcrest comes out" What the hell is that supposed to mean?

Woodcrest should start shipping from Intel to the manufacturers tomorrow.
I'm not sure how anyone is supposed to "come out" with one before the processors even arrive at their door, but I'm sure that would be a good trick.

Apple will have to assemble a few test machines to take this bad boy through the phases, and then they should still have to fine tune their product. So yes I'm thinking waiting for WWDC is their plan of attack. They still have plenty of work to do before they even start rolling these off the assembly lines. By the time that happens it will be WWDC. They may have enough time to have some ready for the actual launch date for a change.

Like I said earlier.

Steve jobs speech:
A few years ago I, along with IBM, promised you 3GHz in a year. That "THREE" years has come and gone.

Today with intel I can happily say 2 dual core 3GHz processors > Shipping Today.
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post #807 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
"Woodcrest comes out" What the hell is that supposed to mean?

Woodcrest should start shipping from Intel to the manufacturers tomorrow.
I'm not sure how anyone is supposed to "come out" with one before the processors even arrive at their door, but I'm sure that would be a good trick.

The processors (a small supply for development) have been available to System developers for some time. Apple, just like other vendors, should be able to announce the machines tomorrow along with the formal announcement from Intel.

For example you can configure a dual woodcrest machine at Dell right now and it will ship 7/11.
post #808 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by mwswami
The processors (a small supply for development) have been available to System developers for some time. Apple, just like other vendors, should be able to announce the machines tomorrow along with the formal announcement from Intel.

For example you can configure a dual woodcrest machine at Dell right now and it will ship 7/11.

But they wont. Too bad.
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post #809 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
But they wont. Too bad.

What makes you so sure they won't announce XServe or a Mac Pro tomorrow ???
post #810 of 947
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
But they wont. Too bad.

Yeah, and they have no excuse. Every other PC manufacturer has a workstation coming out, but Apple still thinks they can screw their customers any way they want without competition.
post #811 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by Placebo
Yeah, and they have no excuse. Every other PC manufacturer has a workstation coming out, but Apple still thinks they can screw their customers any way they want without competition.

I really don't see that Apple is screwing anyone here. All I see is a bunch of screaming children that complain about this and still expect a product that in all probability isn't ready.

The thing I consider important here is the developers. Without them there would be relatively no software. They pay a lot of money to attend WWDC, and Apple tries to make it worth their while making WWDC the best show Apple has yearly. So AFAIAC you guy's can cry all you want about it, but IMO you are no where near as deserving as the people that develop my software.

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Personally I think for what they do and pay to keep up on Mac software development they deserve the best show of the year. And I certainly can wait a few weeks for them.

My 2¢
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post #812 of 947
Quote:
They pay a lot of money to attend WWDC, and Apple tries to make it worth their while making WWDC the best show Apple has yearly. So AFAIAC you guy's can cry all you want about it, but IMO you are no where near as deserving as the people that develop my software.

Of course we are. We're a vital piece of the cycle.

Developer creates application.

Customer likes application and purchases funding further growth.

Developer realizes they need more individual help. They send a few developers to WWDC knowing that their Return On Investment will exceed the expensive costs

Customer likes the new features that leveredge knew core OS features and purchases upgrade. We've come full circle.


The main attraction to WWDC are the courses and individual instruction on topics that are important to each developer. While they like announcements and freebies and a geek meet the overarching goal is to improve their product and increase sales. I think Apple does a pretty good job hosting WWDC even without OMG Product Intros. OMGPI
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post #813 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by DHagan4755


By the way, a workstation at Dell's site lets you configure an optional 2nd processor (for a quad processing system), and from the price of configuring two Woodcrests at 3.0GHz, the system was already over $4,000. Hopefully, Apple will allow us to configure whether or not we want a 2nd processor too.


I don't think Apple is going to let you configure a processor in the way you seem to think this works.

Are you sure that DELLs processor, if you configure it as a single, is a woodcrest? And are you sure that the motherboard for the single configuration has a second "OPEN" space sitting there collecting dust?
I think that apple will have a single processor board in a tower of some sort at some time, but the board will be a designed for a single processor, and it will have a conroe in it. I wouldn't doubt it that if you configure one processor from DELL that you would get a single processor board. Maybe even a different processor (conroe).
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post #814 of 947
But there will be plenty of FCP/Logic users waiting to jump on a Mac Pro quad (like me for example)
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post #815 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by Placebo
Yeah, and they have no excuse. Every other PC manufacturer has a workstation coming out, but Apple still thinks they can screw their customers any way they want without competition.

Meh. 7/11 versus 8/7. I don't see how 4 weeks constitutes "screwing your customers"
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post #816 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
The main attraction to WWDC are the courses and individual instruction on topics that are important to each developer...

Don't forget the afternoon tables filled to the brim with cookies, candies & soda...
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post #817 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by Flounder
Meh. 7/11 versus 8/7. I don't see how 4 weeks constitutes "screwing your customers"

I doesn't. It's just not the 'get up and go' that we think Apple should have. Hey, Apple has prided themselves with being first in a lot of things, and I would think that being first to bring these processors to market in a product would be something they would want to champion.

By the way, a workstation at Dell's site lets you configure an optional 2nd processor (for a quad processing system), and from the price of configuring two Woodcrests at 3.0GHz, the system was already over $4,000. Hopefully, Apple will allow us to configure whether or not we want a 2nd processor too.

Today is Monday. Tomorrow is Tuesday. Perhaps Apple will announce something related to this processor tomorrow. I know, I know. Wishful thinking. But since it has been pointed out that the Dell system is not available until July 11th, that too, is a Tuesday, and maybe Apple will wait until after the 4th of July to announce new Mac Pro towers. I just can't see them waiting until WWDC. I see WWDC as a venue for a revamped MacBook Pro using Intel Core 2 Duo (Merom) processors. But that's my 2¢...
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post #818 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by Thereubster
But there will be plenty of FCP/Logic users waiting to jump on a Mac Pro quad (like me for example)

Have you noticed problems with this forum?
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post #819 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by DHagan4755
I doesn't. It's just not the 'get up and go' that we think Apple should have. Hey, Apple has prided themselves with being first in a lot of things, and I would think that being first to bring these processors to market in a product would be something they would want to champion.

I posted a new thread on this basic premise but this is where Apple's true colors will show, perhaps for the very first time.

In the past Apple had the luxury of being the largest and/or only customer for the CPUs it used. This provided Apple with a number of key benefits.

- No info leaked about the CPU
- Apple was always to be FIRST to use any new CPUs
- Apple orders were filled first any other buyers would follow.

With all of those benefits it enabled Apple to look like it was always first out with new hardware using the new 680x0 and later PPC Gx CPUs. Apple had the ability to time it's hardware release to its liking without fear that someone else would steal their thunder by releasing something based on said CPU first and without Apple customers screaming the ______ CPU has been out for X days, weeks or months and the hell is Apple's hardware?!!?!?!

Apple will never have that kind of pull again not while using Intel CPUs anyway. Can Apple keep up with the Jones/Dells? Should Apple? I dunno... but it's going to be interesting to see what happens over the next year.

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post #820 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by DaveGee
Can Apple keep up with the Jones/Dells? Should Apple?
Dave [/B]

The answer to this seems very obvious to me:
(especially with regard to the apple-premium)
Apple simply cannot afford to be behind the other major desktop manufacturers in their high-end lines (I consider these to be the iMac, the Mac pro and the Macbook pro)

besides this, apple will need to stay ahead of the competition in: design, reliability and ease-of-use. These are the things that made me switch and pay the apple premium over the - same raw computing power but way cheaper - dells of this world.
post #821 of 947
Nice points both Dave and Murch. It will be interesting to see if the old Apple MO carries forward. A couple weeks won't make much of a difference either way but as Dave points out, Apple now competes, to an extent, with the Dells of the pc world and can't drag their feet getting products to market. Especially as a company that is positioning itself as a nimble innovator.
post #822 of 947
If Apple is waiting on an Intel board, it'll come out at WWDC. If they go for a specialized board (which I think likely) it could come anytime.
post #823 of 947
Just went to the Dell Site, a new precision 690 workstation with 2x 2.66Ghz woodcrest (quad cpu), 2Gb FB-DIMM, 250Gb HD and Superdrive, with a low-end quadroFX card (550) comes to $3500 with no monitor. Ship date (estimated) is July 12th.
So if apple can keep to the current $3200 price point for the top end quad it will be VERY competitive.
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post #824 of 947
Is the forum working yet?
Obviously not!
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post #825 of 947
We are busy updating the store for you and will be back within the hour!!!

post #826 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by Thereubster
Just went to the Dell Site, a new precision 690 workstation with 2x 2.66Ghz woodcrest (quad cpu), 2Gb FB-DIMM, 250Gb HD and Superdrive, with a low-end quadroFX card (550) comes to $3500 with no monitor. Ship date (estimated) is July 12th.
So if apple can keep to the current $3200 price point for the top end quad it will be VERY competitive.

Remember that those are where Dell makes the money. Dell makes no money on the low-end Celeron stuff. They make a few dollars on them. Dell's major margins come on these computers. That Quadro is pretty low-end, it looks less impressive than a 7900 (unless I am misunderstanding something). I'd expect the top-end to be a 3.0 GHz w/ 1 GB FB-DIMM and 500GB HDD with a 7900GT (third from high end) at $3500.
post #827 of 947
Forums still f*&ked, my posts are all over the last 2 pages LOL. Anyway Woodcrest....... still think we will see in a Mac announced before August.
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post #828 of 947
Don't forget that the iMac was right out there. It was the first Yonah machine available in large numbers.

It's hard to say how that relates to the pro line though. They did take some time to get the MBP's out. Supposedly, they were to be announced at Macworld as well.

And the Merom won't be out until the forth quarter, so Apple might not intro a new MBP at the dev conf.
post #829 of 947
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Flounder
Meh. 7/11 versus 8/7. I don't see how 4 weeks constitutes "screwing your customers"

Because one month represents a third or more of a typical PC product cycle.
post #830 of 947
Thread Starter 
It's entirely possible that Tuesday afternoon is the date, simply for the Apple affection for Tuesday release dates.
post #831 of 947
apart from Xeon 5100

Yonah 2.33 Ghz listed in the CPU list, may be not going to get big notice, Core 2 Duo Merom, just a month away.

LV Core Duo 1.2Ghz also listed.

http://www.intel.com/products/proces...info_table.pdf

Pentium D 915 listed out in the CPU price list. Pentium 4 will give way to Penitum D slowly ...

http://www.intel.com/intel/finance/p..._Price_web.pdf

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post #832 of 947
I don't think Apple needs to be in a rush. Apple and Dell really don't compete against each other like that. Simply because they don't use the same operating systems.

Its highly unlikely that any one would replace their old PM G5 for a new Woodcreast Dell, because Dell came out with a Woodcrest computer a few weeks earlier. You would have to replace all of the software and support an entirely different system.

Some people believe Mac Pro won't sell well because Adobe creative suite won't be universal until next year.

I don't totally believe that, but I do believe many will hold out buying Mac Pro's or completely replacing their older PM G5's until the primary software they use becomes universal.
post #833 of 947
post #834 of 947
Thread Starter 
If only.
post #835 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by dutch pear
The answer to this seems very obvious to me:
(especially with regard to the apple-premium)
.

What is this "Apple premium"? I hope this is just the premium you spend for not building your own, because unless you compared an Apple branded machine to a DELL, HP, or any other manufacturers computers with similar parts you should before you make such a statement. Because we have done this in here many times before, and in the past 3 years that I have noticed people doing it I have not seen any real escalated prices from Apple on anything they produce. It's a toss up IMO. Because some times they even had better prices than DELL comparatively.
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post #836 of 947
Thread Starter 
Yeah, well they need to completely demolish the concept of that premium with the Mac Pro. Remember, there are a lot of professionals wondering whether to stay Mac or switch to new Windows machines; this offers them a competitive solution that runs both.
post #837 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by Placebo
Remember, there are a lot of professionals wondering whether to stay Windows or switch to new Mac machines; this offers them a competitive solution that runs both.

T;ftfy.
post #838 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
Have you noticed problems with this forum?

Yes. I couldn't get on late last last night. I'm way behind.
post #839 of 947
I had this weird issue where it kept telling me I was exceeding flood control, even when I hadn't written something before.
post #840 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
Yes. I couldn't get on late last last night. I'm way behind.

That's not what I was talking about, so I guess you missed it.

If you look in this thread you'll see the first post I am on top with ZachPruckowski below me. THe thread was started by AppleInsider
Kasper's Automated Slave, who should have the top position because he started it, but for some reason I jumped all the way ahead of him in the order. I have the post was quoting in a quote which was the last post posted at the time. THat post is about #20, or so, so mine should haver been #21, but for strange reasons I was thrown up to spot #1. It did that to me all night.
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