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The Intel Powermac / Powermac Conroe / Mac Pro thread - Page 23

post #881 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
AMD has nothing planned in hardware that is likely to worry Intel.

How do you know that?
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post #882 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by Gene Clean
How do you know that?

Basically you don't. To assume anything else is naive. You can't just rely on what's announced or in the pipeline. Both Intel and AMD will have stuff up their sleeves. It's good to see Intel fighting back aggressively to regain market share in the server and gaming markets.

To see one example of what might be up AMD's sleeve check out "AMD's reverse Hyper-Threading". I don't know if it's workable but it's intriguing for sure. Also see rumored Intel Core Multiplexing.

As soon as AMD puts 65nm process to production, I believe we will see them try to be the first to come out with the Quad core chip. Intel seems to have Clovertown designed and ready to go in the their back pocket but, even with it's superior Core 2 architecture, because of the lack of decent processor Interconnect, it may not perform as well as a Quad core Opteron. Time will tell ......
post #883 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by Gene Clean
How do you know that?

Other than AM2 there are no large AMD refreshes coming that contain any significant core architectural changes. Feel free to try and find some though.

Plus I have access to 90 day roadmaps from a large vendor. We're kickin' Dell's a** and I'm on the front line.
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post #884 of 947
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by benzene
That's awesome.

Yeah, it really is. If I get to have a guardian angel at American Express ensuring the Mac-ness of my purchases, I don't care about privacy.
post #885 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
Other than AM2 there are no large AMD refreshes coming that contain any significant core architectural changes. Feel free to try and find some though.

Plus I have access to 90 day roadmaps from a large vendor. We're kickin' Dell's a** and I'm on the front line.

I'm actually wondering what is wrong with Dell. Stock has fallen nearly in half in the last 12 months or so.

Has it got to the point that corporations just don't treat Dell as the tried-and-true "safe" buy anymore? Has HP finally caught up and is able to compete? Has the cost of computers gotten to the point that any cost savings from Dell's operational efficiency don't matter any more? All of the above?

They bought Alienware and are selling XPS computers to get margins. Going with AMD Opterons for server margins. Lastly, if the AMD mobile and desktop machine rumor is true, Dell is taking a gigantic gamble on price being the only thing that matters to sales and performance doesn't really matter anymore. Still odd, because Intel can drive the cost of their platforms very very low if need be, and that could kill Dell-AMD.

Hmm... SGI could be a good buy for Dell.
post #886 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by THT
Hmm... SGI could be a good buy for Dell.

Hell, with the tumble SGI has been taking, AppleInsdier forums members (as a collective, duh) could buy SGI now!
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post #887 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by THT
I'm actually wondering what is wrong with Dell. Stock has fallen nearly in half in the last 12 months or so.

Has it got to the point that corporations just don't treat Dell as the tried-and-true "safe" buy anymore? Has HP finally caught up and is able to compete? Has the cost of computers gotten to the point that any cost savings from Dell's operational efficiency don't matter any more? All of the above?

They bought Alienware and are selling XPS computers to get margins. Going with AMD Opterons for server margins. Lastly, if the AMD mobile and desktop machine rumor is true, Dell is taking a gigantic gamble on price being the only thing that matters to sales and performance doesn't really matter anymore. Still odd, because Intel can drive the cost of their platforms very very low if need be, and that could kill Dell-AMD.

Hmm... SGI could be a good buy for Dell.

I don't see the connection of performance not being something in their game plan now that they bought Alienware. Alienware will still be operational, and making gaming machines, and highend workstations. That's new for DELL.
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post #888 of 947
Dell really doesn't have the software management tools to compete with IBM or HP.

They could OEM a bunch of tools but that's going to take a lot of money and time.

Incidentally Apple is in the same shoes. Even if they developed a full lineup of Server/Workstation they'd be far behind on Enterprise tools and other "glue" stuff.

That's ok for me...just get out fast computers.
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post #889 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by THT
I'm actually wondering what is wrong with Dell. Stock has fallen nearly in half in the last 12 months or so.

Has it got to the point that corporations just don't treat Dell as the tried-and-true "safe" buy anymore? Has HP finally caught up and is able to compete? Has the cost of computers gotten to the point that any cost savings from Dell's operational efficiency don't matter any more? All of the above?

They bought Alienware and are selling XPS computers to get margins. Going with AMD Opterons for server margins. Lastly, if the AMD mobile and desktop machine rumor is true, Dell is taking a gigantic gamble on price being the only thing that matters to sales and performance doesn't really matter anymore. Still odd, because Intel can drive the cost of their platforms very very low if need be, and that could kill Dell-AMD.

Hmm... SGI could be a good buy for Dell.

How do they save money going with AMD? Intel are giving away processsors right now. Pent Ds and P4s are dirt.
post #890 of 947
Thread Starter 
What's the best bet for the mac Pro release date do you all think? I think WWDC is plain stupid, but seems most likely...
post #891 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by Placebo
What's the best bet for the mac Pro release date do you all think? I think WWDC is plain stupid, but seems most likely...

I agree on both counts.
post #892 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by backtomac
How do they save money going with AMD? Intel are giving away processsors right now. Pent Ds and P4s are dirt.

AMD will give away processors for cheaper than dirt.
post #893 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by THT
AMD will give away processors for cheaper than dirt.

And that's been AMD's problems for, oh so many years. Living at the edge of profitability. They've had a good run recently.
post #894 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by THT
AMD will give away processors for cheaper than dirt.

Maybe I'm mistaken but from what I've seen at Annad, Pent Ds are way cheaper than Athlons. Maybe the Semprons are even cheaper I don't know for sure but at $100 for a 2.8 ghz Pent D I don't see how AMD competes on price per dollar.
post #895 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by Placebo
What's the best bet for the mac Pro release date do you all think? I think WWDC is plain stupid, but seems most likely...

It's most likely at WWDC or 4 days earlier at SIGGRAPH. If they have a lot of stuff ready they would do the PM at SIG, and release something else at WWDC. If it were at SIGGRAPH they would be keynoting there, and they are not so I would say WWDC.
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post #896 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by backtomac
Maybe I'm mistaken but from what I've seen at Annad, Pent Ds are way cheaper than Athlons. Maybe the Semprons are even cheaper I don't know for sure but at $100 for a 2.8 ghz Pent D I don't see how AMD competes on price per dollar.

The D is an old chip now. Intel just wants to get rid of them. It'swhat happens with the current models that matters.
post #897 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by backtomac
Maybe I'm mistaken but from what I've seen at Annad, Pent Ds are way cheaper than Athlons. Maybe the Semprons are even cheaper I don't know for sure but at $100 for a 2.8 ghz Pent D I don't see how AMD competes on price per dollar.

Oh, they are preparing to compete. I don't know how well, but they are trying. They've eliminated the Athlon X2 CPUs with 2 x1 MB L2 cache. They now only have 2x512 KB L2 cache Athlon X2 CPUs with the exception of an Athlon X2 3600+ with 2x256 KB of L2 cache. The 2x1 MB L2 cache K8 CPUs will either be Athlon FXs or Opterons from now on.

In effect, they are reducing die size in their dual-core mainstream parts which should increase yield and reduce the cost of manufacturing them, and in trade, take a small performance hit in order to compete. The Athlon X2 3600+ should be in the $150 range.

For Dell, AMD could be offering them CPUs at-cost or something close to it. Getting something on the order of less than 10 to 20 dollars than the competition could be all the Dell wants.
post #898 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
The D is an old chip now. Intel just wants to get rid of them. It'swhat happens with the current models that matters.

From what I've read it looks like Intel plan to use Pent Ds to compete at the low end and core 2 will be the premium chip at the high end. I think I read that Intel still expects 40% of it's desktop cpu shipments to be pent ds into the first half of 07. I think it will be around a little longer.
post #899 of 947
Thread Starter 
Okay, people, this could be it (oh please oh please oh please):

"There's recently been some talk about a potential Apple product introduction following the July 4th holiday. However, the rumors are largely unconfirmed at this time.

Specifically, the rumblings suggest a high-end hardware offering could be in the cards. Informed speculation would point to a product based on Intel's Woodcrest line of chips, which were recently introduced."

http://appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1855
post #900 of 947
Some sort of joke about fireworks? I mean, that Mac Pro Quad is gonna be a screamer. But the Fourth is a tuesday. Maybe on the 11th?
post #901 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by backtomac
From what I've read it looks like Intel plan to use Pent Ds to compete at the low end and core 2 will be the premium chip at the high end. I think I read that Intel still expects 40% of it's desktop cpu shipments to be pent ds into the first half of 07. I think it will be around a little longer.

Yes, you are right about that. But it is still obsolete at this time already. The Yonah has replaced it. It's only being made until they get the lines up to completely produce the newer chips. I don't remember if the "D" is even a 65nm part.
post #902 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by Placebo
Okay, people, this could be it (oh please oh please oh please):

"There's recently been some talk about a potential Apple product introduction following the July 4th holiday. However, the rumors are largely unconfirmed at this time.

Specifically, the rumblings suggest a high-end hardware offering could be in the cards. Informed speculation would point to a product based on Intel's Woodcrest line of chips, which were recently introduced."

http://appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1855

Following the holiday. That leaves a large gap between now and the dev conf.

Those here who truly believe in the sanctity of the Tuesday release, will have to wait until next week, and then what's so special?
post #903 of 947
they never say it's tied to the 4th, just that it's near the 4th. It may have nothing to do with the 4th, it may just come out early to mid July (post-4th) instead of WWDC. that could be all that that means.
post #904 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by ZachPruckowski
they never say it's tied to the 4th, just that it's near the 4th. It may have nothing to do with the 4th, it may just come out early to mid July (post-4th) instead of WWDC. that could be all that that means.

As we all know well; Anything is possible.
post #905 of 947
I just don't see Apple springing something on Wednesday, July 5th, although it begins a National Education conference in which Apple is an attendee.
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post #906 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by DHagan4755
I just don't see Apple springing something on Wednesday, July 5th, although it begins a National Education conference in which Apple is an attendee.

eMac?
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post #907 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by gar
eMac?

Yeah but A.I. seems to indicate that it's something bigger. Of course education loves the Xserve too.
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post #908 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by DHagan4755
Yeah but A.I. seems to indicate that it's something bigger. Of course education loves the Xserve too.

An eMac is nothing to sneer at. And A.I. isn't perfect. Although I'd be pleased as punch to check tomorrow at 5:30 and see a mac pro spec list on slashdot or here.
post #909 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by DHagan4755
I just don't see Apple springing something on Wednesday, July 5th, although it begins a National Education conference in which Apple is an attendee.

I agree. Apple always attends, but if they planned an announcement of some sort there would be a buzz of an Apple speech of some sort, or a ton of Apple security. We'll see. I haven't heard anything about Apple being overly secretive of anything there, or a beefed up secure area for them.
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post #910 of 947
Well, now we know, don't we?
post #911 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
Well, now we know, don't we?

Yeah. They hid it in the open. It's identicle to an iMac. Not much to hide.

OK, so I had a dream about a PowerMac announcement last night. I should have known it was a dream when he called it the "all new PowerMac something, or other", but I didn't. You know how dreams are. THe coolest thing, about the only thing, I remember was the beginning when he was showing the hot swappable drive chassis. It was totally cool. He went through all the different things you could put on a removable drive, and different ways how you can use them. I remember the backup drives like, a mirror system, user drives, for privacy between family members, windows removal, he also had a huge video rendering going on where the 1st drive would get full, and the overflow would automatically go to the new drive, and he swapped out the first drive with a new empty drive for when the render filled up the next drive. I was totally awestruck.
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post #912 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
Yeah. They hid it in the open. It's identicle to an iMac. Not much to hide.

OK, so I had a dream about a PowerMac announcement last night. I should have known it was a dream when he called it the "all new PowerMac something, or other", but I didn't. You know how dreams are. THe coolest thing, about the only thing, I remember was the beginning when he was showing the hot swappable drive chassis. It was totally cool. He went through all the different things you could put on a removable drive, and different ways how you can use them. I remember the backup drives like, a mirror system, user drives, for privacy between family members, windows removal, he also had a huge video rendering going on where the 1st drive would get full, and the overflow would automatically go to the new drive, and he swapped out the first drive with a new empty drive for when the render filled up the next drive. I was totally awestruck.

I admit that hot-swappable drives have uses... especially in the work place. But I don't think we'll EVER see hot-swappable drives in a mac pro / powermac. Do they already exist in the xserve? I'd expect to see them way there way before the mac pro. The mac pro is still a consumer machine. When I see a list of desires for a mac pro, I hardly EVER see "hot-swappable drives" on the list. Of course we'll have to wait and see, but in the mean time... I think you're dreaming

 

 

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post #913 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by emig647
I admit that hot-swappable drives have uses... especially in the work place. But I don't think we'll EVER see hot-swappable drives in a mac pro / powermac. Do they already exist in the xserve? I'd expect to see them way there way before the mac pro. The mac pro is still a consumer machine. When I see a list of desires for a mac pro, I hardly EVER see "hot-swappable drives" on the list. Of course we'll have to wait and see, but in the mean time... I think you're dreaming

Both the Xserve & the XRAID have hot-swap HDDs

I also would like to see hot-swap drives in the new Mac Pro

Apple has already done the R&D with the aforementioned enterprise products
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post #914 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by MacRonin
Both the Xserve & the XRAID have hot-swap HDDs

I also would like to see hot-swap drives in the new Mac Pro

Apple has already done the R&D with the aforementioned enterprise products

I guess I fail to see the need to up costs for a few select users that would "want it". How many people would it convert from solaris / windows to mac? Is it a deal breaker? I assume it isn't. There are standalone hotswappable harddrive options like Xserve RAID. I'd think buying those would be better than swapping in your desktop machine. MINE would be impossible to get to unless it came directly out the front.

I also never see this as an option in PC DIY cases. I think silverstone offers a couple but that's about it.

I believe it would be something that wouldn't even be used by A LOT of mac pro buyers. Is it worth upping the cost for it?

 

 

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post #915 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by emig647
I guess I fail to see the need to up costs for a few select users that would "want it". How many people would it convert from solaris / windows to mac? Is it a deal breaker? I assume it isn't. There are standalone hotswappable harddrive options like Xserve RAID. I'd think buying those would be better than swapping in your desktop machine. MINE would be impossible to get to unless it came directly out the front.

I also never see this as an option in PC DIY cases. I think silverstone offers a couple but that's about it.

I believe it would be something that wouldn't even be used by A LOT of mac pro buyers. Is it worth upping the cost for it?

The addition of the hot swapable drive chasis on an alienware workstation was $58.00. It doesn't seem like that is going to break anyone.
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post #916 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by emig647
I guess I fail to see the need to up costs for a few select users that would "want it". How many people would it convert from solaris / windows to mac? Is it a deal breaker? I assume it isn't. There are standalone hotswappable harddrive options like Xserve RAID. I'd think buying those would be better than swapping in your desktop machine. MINE would be impossible to get to unless it came directly out the front.

I also never see this as an option in PC DIY cases. I think silverstone offers a couple but that's about it.

I believe it would be something that wouldn't even be used by A LOT of mac pro buyers. Is it worth upping the cost for it?

Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
The addition of the hot swapable drive chasis on an alienware workstation was $58.00. It doesn't seem like that is going to break anyone.

Especially if hot-swap HDDs were a BTO option
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post #917 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by MacRonin
Especially if hot-swap HDDs were a BTO option

Like apple would do that.... have you seen the BTO lately?

 

 

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post #918 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by emig647
Like apple would do that.... have you seen the BTO lately?

It was just a cool dream. shit I've never been to a MacWorld, or a WWDC, and they don't live broadcast apple shows anymore so it was really exciting just to have the experience again. Either way though I'd still like to see it happen. Hot swapping drives is Apples best option to offer more drive space if they are not going to have the internal spaces for them any more. I still think it's a good idea to remove your windows drive when you are not using it. But I can't say that I expect it. I'd just like to see it. Especially for my mirror drive that I have to keep internal right now. I'd rather use that drive space for something else, and only pop the drive in to update it.
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post #919 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by emig647
Like apple would do that.... have you seen the BTO lately?

Yeah, negativity always helps
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post #920 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by emig647
I guess I fail to see the need to up costs for a few select users that would "want it". How many people would it convert from solaris / windows to mac? Is it a deal breaker? I assume it isn't. There are standalone hotswappable harddrive options like Xserve RAID. I'd think buying those would be better than swapping in your desktop machine. MINE would be impossible to get to unless it came directly out the front.

I also never see this as an option in PC DIY cases. I think silverstone offers a couple but that's about it.

I believe it would be something that wouldn't even be used by A LOT of mac pro buyers. Is it worth upping the cost for it?

You're looking at this the wrong way. It's a matter of satisfying your customers. Not just getting new ones. All PC's are capable of having hot swap installed. All that have the slots, which IS just about all. Hot swap cartridges and chassis are cheap. Apple doesn't have to include them. They can offer them as an accessory, for us to install ourselves. It's not much harder than installing a HD. All it requires is a stand open 5.25" slot.

Hell, they don't even have to offer them! Just give us the slot(s). We'll buy our own.
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