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The Intel Powermac / Powermac Conroe / Mac Pro thread - Page 24

post #921 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
It was just a cool dream. shit I've never been to a MacWorld, or a WWDC, and they don't live broadcast apple shows anymore so it was really exciting just to have the experience again. Either way though I'd still like to see it happen. Hot swapping drives is Apples best option to offer more drive space if they are not going to have the internal spaces for them any more. I still think it's a good idea to remove your windows drive when you are not using it. But I can't say that I expect it. I'd just like to see it. Especially for my mirror drive that I have to keep internal right now. I'd rather use that drive space for something else, and only pop the drive in to update it.

I've been to a lot of those, and I've seen a lot of hot swappable chassis in PC's.

This could even be done in the optical slot, if you either didn't need the optical drive, or had an external one anyway.
post #922 of 947
Yah I guess I wasn't thinking outside the box. I was trying to figure out how they would do it with the current designs and having the drives in the back / side. I really don't see apple going to a 5.25" slot in the front though... I wouldn't mind it... i could put an extra optical drive there... but they are nazis... =P.

Btw onlooker... you aren't missing much at the MW's and WWDC's. WWDC is kinda cool if you're a dev, but I think they run them at too quick of a pace. It's really only worth it to get the DVD's at the end so you can watch at your own pace. They are really more of seminars to show you cool stuff than to learn cool stuff.

 

 

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The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

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post #923 of 947
Functionally, I like this SuperMicro full-tower system with support for dual Woodcrests and 8 hot-pluggable SAS/SATA discs.

post #924 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by mwswami
Functionally, I like this SuperMicro full-tower system with support for dual Woodcrests and 8 hot-pluggable SAS/SATA discs.

Yeah - typical Apple design
post #925 of 947
I don't think we're going to be seeing large numbers of 3.5" bays in the powermac line (a la the 8600/9600's, or that PC monstrosity above) anymore.

Given the advent of 500GB+ drives means that the playing field is going to be split pretty much into two camps:

A) Needs more than 1TB (or so) of available space.
These are going to be your true power-users, the sort of people who edit full-length video professionally. Chances are (if they're an all apple shop) they'll have an XRAid or something linked to their workstation via fibrechannel or something likewise serious.
This same reasoning holds true for the need to have hotswappable drives.

B) Everybody else.
Apple figures (and probably rightly so) that if you need over 1TB space, you probably won't need all of it at SATA speeds, and can get by with a SAN or something (i.e. backup). Apple's not a boutique manufacturer, so they're not going to fragment their product line much beyond what we're already seeing.

Bottom line: the days of having six or more HD bays is over. Boo hoo.
The secret of life: Proteins fold up and bind things.
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The secret of life: Proteins fold up and bind things.
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post #926 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by benzene
I don't think we're going to be seeing large numbers of 3.5" bays in the powermac line (a la the 8600/9600's, or that PC monstrosity above) anymore.

Given the advent of 500GB+ drives means that the playing field is going to be split pretty much into two camps:

A) Needs more than 1TB (or so) of available space.
These are going to be your true power-users, the sort of people who edit full-length video professionally. Chances are (if they're an all apple shop) they'll have an XRAid or something linked to their workstation via fibrechannel or something likewise serious.
This same reasoning holds true for the need to have hotswappable drives.

B) Everybody else.
Apple figures (and probably rightly so) that if you need over 1TB space, you probably won't need all of it at SATA speeds, and can get by with a SAN or something (i.e. backup). Apple's not a boutique manufacturer, so they're not going to fragment their product line much beyond what we're already seeing.

Bottom line: the days of having six or more HD bays is over. Boo hoo.

QFT.
post #927 of 947
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by smalM
Yeah - typical Apple design

Don't make me go into mockup mode.
post #928 of 947
I cant believe this thread still rumbles on...
Anyway, I agree that the Mac Pro will not have more HD bays, or at least probably only 3 or MAYBE 4. It would be useful for Video and audio to have 3 HD internally.
Idiot, slow down....

- The Tourist, Radiohead
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Idiot, slow down....

- The Tourist, Radiohead
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post #929 of 947
Well, looked at a few 2S Woodcrest systems and it looks like it will be very difficult for Apple to sell even mid-level (2.33 GHz or lower) quad system for less than $3000. So, Conroe systems at the low and mid-range and 2S at the high end for $3300+ might be it for the "Mac Pro".

A 2.66 GHz Woodcrest cost $700. A Greencreek workstation board is about $500. So 2 CPUs and a board would cost $2000. A decent standard graphics card at $150 and 1 GB of FB-DIMM will in the area of $200. After adding all the other stuff (hard drive, optical, case, etc), we could be sitting at $2999 for bare bones 2S 2.66 GHz Xeon 5150 system.

That's not much of an improvement of the G5 Quad; not like the iMac or laptops. I cannot see Apple selling a 2S 3 GHz Xeon 5160 (3 GHz) system for under $3500. Not even close.

So, I think Apple will have no choice but to office 2 Conroe systems at $1999 and $2500. Either that, or split the Pro desktop into two lines: a Conroe mid-range from $1299 to $1999 and a 2S Woodcrest high end starting at $2999, minimum.

The costs just are working out so that Apple could sell at 2S 2.33+ GHz Woodcrest for anything less than $3000.
post #930 of 947
Thread Starter 
I want an inexpensive computer that's good.

kkthx?
post #931 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by THT
Well, looked at a few 2S Woodcrest systems and it looks like it will be very difficult for Apple to sell even mid-level (2.33 GHz or lower) quad system for less than $3000. So, Conroe systems at the low and mid-range and 2S at the high end for $3300+ might be it for the "Mac Pro".

A 2.66 GHz Woodcrest cost $700. A Greencreek workstation board is about $500. So 2 CPUs and a board would cost $2000. A decent standard graphics card at $150 and 1 GB of FB-DIMM will in the area of $200. After adding all the other stuff (hard drive, optical, case, etc), we could be sitting at $2999 for bare bones 2S 2.66 GHz Xeon 5150 system.

That's not much of an improvement of the G5 Quad; not like the iMac or laptops. I cannot see Apple selling a 2S 3 GHz Xeon 5160 (3 GHz) system for under $3500. Not even close.

So, I think Apple will have no choice but to office 2 Conroe systems at $1999 and $2500. Either that, or split the Pro desktop into two lines: a Conroe mid-range from $1299 to $1999 and a 2S Woodcrest high end starting at $2999, minimum.

The costs just are working out so that Apple could sell at 2S 2.33+ GHz Woodcrest for anything less than $3000.

Nothing to do with money here but just out of curiosity THT.
Do you think Apple, and intel will use a standard intel Woodcrest chipset? I'm not sure they will. I think being that intel has a team designated to the mac Motherboard design, and to Apple themselves, they created an Apple only, unique chipset for the MacPro board. I think they would have to to keep OS X on MacPro's and MacPro's alone. Food for thought. Apple may have their own design which would give them their own naming scheme for this new MacPro. Rather than call it a G6 per-se they could name it after their unique intel/Apple designed board. Something to consider.
The intel contract with Apple's details are virtually unknown, but I'm sure they had to make some some seriously unique offers while they were courting Apple for the past 5+ years to move to intel.
onlooker
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onlooker
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post #932 of 947
...let's hope so...
I heard that geeks are a dime a dozen, I just want to find out who's been passin' out the dimes
----- Fred Blassie 1964
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I heard that geeks are a dime a dozen, I just want to find out who's been passin' out the dimes
----- Fred Blassie 1964
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post #933 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
Nothing to do with money here but just out of curiosity THT.
Do you think Apple, and intel will use a standard intel Woodcrest chipset?

Yes, but, of course with EFI.
post #934 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
Yes, but, of course with EFI.

The chipset has little to do with the firmware.
post #935 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by Chucker
The chipset has little to do with the firmware.

I know that. But it's also not standard as yet, which is why I mentioned it.
post #936 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
I know that. But it's also not standard as yet, which is why I mentioned it.

Fair enough. Others may not know it, however.
post #937 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by Chucker
Fair enough. Others may not know it, however.

That's true. Sometimes it's easy to forget that not everyone here is a regular.
post #938 of 947
Other than EFI I think there will be something unique on Apples motherboard. Call it a hunch.
onlooker
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onlooker
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post #939 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
Other than EFI I think there will be something unique on Apples motherboard. Call it a hunch.

Any thoughts as to what?
post #940 of 947
A 10 MBit/s RDF transmitter?
post #941 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
Any thoughts as to what?

none what so ever.
onlooker
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onlooker
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post #942 of 947
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
Other than EFI I think there will be something unique on Apples motherboard. Call it a hunch.



Do I win?
post #943 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by Placebo


Do I win?

I was gonna mention that, but the TPM is getting increasingly common with other manufacturers, too, so it doesn't quite fit the "unique" criteria.
post #944 of 947
Thread Starter 
The IR reciever for Front Row?
post #945 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
Do you think Apple, and intel will use a standard intel Woodcrest chipset?

Yes, most certainly. At least, that's the option with the highest odds.

A custom chipset for Apple would cost some nontrivial amount of money for both Apple and Intel, while Intel giving Apple a nice discount on the CPU and chipset would do virtually the same thing for Apple's and Intel's bottom line. Do the thing that costs less for the same benefit.

Also, there simply isn't many low hanging fruit. The only one I can think of is changing the memory controller from Fully Buffered memory to DDR2 memory which should make Apple systems cheaper, and probably perform a little better for Apple's non-server purposes.

Quote:
I'm not sure they will. I think being that intel has a team designated to the mac Motherboard design, and to Apple themselves, they created an Apple only, unique chipset for the MacPro board.

If the rumors of Intel handling Apple's Mac Pro motherboard are true, I'm thinking it is more about motherboard layout than chipset features, not implementing a unique Apple chipset. There could be some Apple unique hardware hanging off a PCIe lane (like Robson). Firewire 800 will most likely be one of those.
post #946 of 947
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
none what so ever.

post #947 of 947
The current PowerMac board has 32 PCIe lanes (16 + 8 + 4 + 4). The Mac Pro board shouldn't have less. It'll need at least 2 more even, to cover the Airport/BT and Firewire. That's one reason Apple may go for a custom board.
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